Self Damage

[yingji]

All launchers need is Blast procs on yourself instead of self damage.

At the level of enemies where it even matters how good/bad any launcher including Tonkor is, a Blast proc will enable strong enemies to kill you.

A Blast proc on yourself if you are too close to explosion.

At low levels, a launcher is no more OP than a machine gun, a Blast proc is an inconvenient punishment for poor weapon skills. Fine, good. At mid-high/level levels a Blast proc will end you. Just ask any Wukong player who doesn't use Handspring

There, fixed.

 

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

You said the reason in your post, AoE weapons are more effective, so self damage is their downside.

[Fliktor06]

Meanwhile, tigris prime users will keep spamming their 1-shot kills on everything and laugh at that random explosive weapon user struggles not to kill himself.

[yingji]

Too complicated.

Explosive weapons just need to do Blast procs on user if user too close.

A Blast proc will get you killed at levels where enemies are dangerous. A Blast proc will make you miss a move, miss a pickup, knock you off a button, fair chance to get your wiped out. Plenty punishment.

At low levels a launcher offers no significant advantage over any other weapon type. There is no reason/need to punish launcher users on low level missions so extremely. A Soma will kill stuff just as well as a penta at low levels. No, self damage hurts low levels and new players disproportionately and isn't even 'the problem' with launchers anyway.

The issue is launchers in the context of mid-high/high level enemies. Oneshotting yourself is not fun gaming. Blast procs make getting killed a real risk not a tedious certainty. A punishment not an inescapable fate.

Blast procs. Done.

[Makinar]

2 hours ago, jmthebigman said:

No,

learn to use explosives, its not that difficult.

Only times I die is when theres a invisible wall or a team mate is being dumb and rushing into my face while I keep my distance of the others.

+1

[NinjaZeku]

14 hours ago, Ashnal said:

The fact that a weapon has a blast radius would indicate that it does AoE AND self damage.

Except for Staticor, Sonicor, Acid Shells Sobek, anything with Combustion Beam, (Primary Fire of) Javlok, Quanta, Opticor, ...

Plus there are "lingering AoE" weapons like Torid / Pox / Mutalist Cernos / Nightwatch Napalm Ogris / whatnot
that could - besides a duration value - likewise use an AoE indicator.

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

i fail to see how thats an issue with talon. its explosives are controlled and youre supposed to stick them to walls on stuff for their bonus damage since they suck otherwise.

I never said that post was relating to the talon...  that was a reply to the one above...

I mentioned the talon in my previous post because it was my 'latest' experience with the joys of self damage.. a warframe being killed by a secondary weapon, not even a primary, shows how overkill the self damage (or you could argue how skewed the damage/survivability balance is) in the game is....  And you do know some things that they get stuck to can move towards you (pretty quickly if it's infested too as they just run straight at you) or even better move in between you and your target due to travel time of the weapon.... you also made the assumption I was close to it when it exploded, I wasn't actually that close to it either so death was caused by blast radius not having any noticeable fall off.....

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I'm ok with it as is, but I think Smart Grenades would have been a better option.

That would work for me, it would keep all the 'get gud' players happy while allowing those of us who want to spend time playing the game to play the game without the constant need of reviving other players or getting revived when we die due to imo an unnecessary mechanic in this type of game. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by LSG501

[Zeclem]

if you really managed to get caught in blast radius of talon, you deserve that death.

[LSG501]

4 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

if you really managed to get caught in blast radius of talon, you deserve that death.

I couldn't exactly go much further back....oh wait I just need to get gud and magic myself through walls....

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

I couldn't exactly go much further back....oh wait I just need to get gud and magic myself through walls....

or dont explode it while its up your face? your whole argument reeks of needing to git gud.

[LSG501]

5 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

or dont explode it while its up your face? your whole argument reeks of needing to git gud.

and your comments just shouts of trying to be elitist or deliberately going against the topic (sure this isn't the first time either) of a thread on purpose to try and derail things just because 'get gud' is the 'meta' for a game which is supposed to be about having fun...

When I started the game the community aspect was all pretty friendly but of late it's starting to turn pretty toxic, mostly due to the 'get gud' crowd who won't even consider a different viewpoint because players just need to 'get gud'....

oh wait... I suppose I could just 'get gud' and run rhino with iron skin all the time...kind of makes the game a bit boring though....

Edited March 27, 2017 by LSG501

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

I'd be fine with the proc route. Hitting yourself with corrosive or viral can really mess you up but doesn't mean instant death like a Kulstar clipping something would.

[ChuckMaverick]

Alternatively just have 'smart' grenades/projectiles that don't detonate if they are in range of a player.

There's still a downside (no damage dealt to enemies if the grenades can't explode) without the annoyance of self-inflicted deaths.

Edited March 27, 2017 by ChuckMaverick

[Zeclem]

Just now, LSG501 said:

and your comments just shouts of trying to be elitist or deliberately going against the topic (sure this isn't the first time either) of a thread on purpose to try and derail things just because 'get gud' is the 'meta' for a game which is supposed to be about having fun...

When I started the game the community aspect was all pretty friendly but of late it's starting to turn pretty toxic, mostly due to the 'get gud' crowd who won't even consider a different viewpoint because players just need to 'get gud'....

theres no going against the topic. you people who cry about self damage needs to learn how to aim properly. if you manage to die to a talon(aka a weapon that you have full control over its explosion) you simply need to get good. theres no sugarcoating it. its not the weapons problem, its yours you like it or not.

what you refuse to realize is THAT is what keeping them in balance. tonkor was literally most used weapon for a very good reason.

[ChuckMaverick]

3 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

what you refuse to realize is THAT is what keeping them in balance. tonkor was literally most used weapon for a very good reason.

For a "literally most used weapon" I rarely ever saw it in missions.

Maybe a year ago they were more popular, but for me they were a rarity even before the nerf.

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, ChuckMaverick said:

For a "literally most used weapon" I rarely ever saw it in missions.

Maybe a year ago they were more popular, but for me they were a rarity even before the nerf.

it had the lowest disposition. simulor and soma followed it.

[Yaerion]

3 hours ago, JackFletcher said:

Before you read: If you are ok with the current Status of explosion weapons, then don't read further. This thread is not for you. Thanks!

With the Tonkor and Penta (through Tether Grenades) nerf, a long-existent weak spot has become more visible. The current self damage makes Launchers for me and a lot of the players base more annoying than fun (Again: this is out of discussion in this post - there are already enough threads about this topic).

But I also see the AOE-Weapons being much more effective than Rifles, Bows(and I really like Bows) etc., especially against Infested and without cc.

And to get a compromise, I want to present some of my Ideas to fix this Issue.

1. %-Dmg of Shields/Health - Instead of killing yourself instead you would deal some % of your max shields as self damage(for Nidus and Inaros it would be % of health). It could also be a % of combined health and shields.

2. Explosion proc/Knockdown/Stagger – You get knockdown or stagger. Whether its just a stagger or a knockdown and how long you are immovable could depend on the explosion distance.

3. Dmg-fall off – Explosions would only deal the full amount of damage in their center and less towards their edge.

I’d appreciate new suggestions, have a nice day and keep your salt away!

Shot from General Discussion to Feedback]Weapons.

[ChuckMaverick]

Just now, Zeclem said:

it had the lowest disposition. simulor and soma followed it.

It would be very nice to see the method/formula DE use to calculate riven disposition, like what time period they're looking at and how they measure 'usage'.

Regardless, I still rarely saw them in missions.

[Zeclem]

Just now, ChuckMaverick said:

It would be very nice to see the method/formula DE use to calculate riven disposition, like what time period they're looking at and how they measure 'usage'.

Regardless, I still rarely saw them in missions.

im fairly sure they said its based on player usage.

and i personally saw them a lot.

[ChuckMaverick]

Just now, Zeclem said:

im fairly sure they said its based on player usage.

Yeah, but how do you measure 'usage'?

Is it over the last year, the last quarter, the last month?

Do you measure the amount of use by number of kills, amount of affinity gained, time in missions?

It's not at all clear how disposition is calculated beyond a very ambiguous 'popularity'.

[Prany]

I would be all for basic damage cap. Make it a stat different for each weapon ranging from 500 to 1500 point cap and 100 point cap for Kulstar and Zarr bomblets. This way explosives don't kill you in one shot, but being in blast radius is still undesirable.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

The simple fact is no other weapon has this much of a drawback. Mis-charging a bow doesn't snap your wrist, reloading your bullet hose at the wrong time doesn't jam the mag, and then there's every other AoE weapon with zero consequences like sonicor. Self damage is the Russian roulette of your weapon wheel; eventually the chamber will have a live round in it, and it will be your turn.

[Elendir]

I truly love how some people are able to tell others to git gud in a game where there's absolutely no skill involved.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Elendir

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

theres no going against the topic. you people who cry about self damage needs to learn how to aim properly. if you manage to die to a talon(aka a weapon that you have full control over its explosion) you simply need to get good. theres no sugarcoating it. its not the weapons problem, its yours you like it or not.

what you refuse to realize is THAT is what keeping them in balance. tonkor was literally most used weapon for a very good reason.

Did you not read my comment properly... I said I could commit suicide as often as I wanted, I never said I was having issues with aiming or killing myself every shot... seriously some people just read things how they want to read things so it makes their 'get gud viewpoint' sound like the person they're trying to 'put down' is just not able to use the weapons.   You also keep coming back to the talon because you can use it to try and avoid the other valid issues with weapons like the tonkor where it's not always down to our lack of 'get gud' skills that we get self damage.   I do actually know how to use the weapons just like you, the difference is I can also see the issue with self damage.

Plus there are more ways than just killing the user to balance a high damage weapon, longer reloads, jamming weapons/misfires, others suggestions as mentioned in the first and later posts such as the 'smart bomb' approach, just to name a few.  As I said I personally see no need in self damage with warframe, there's plenty of weapons that actually do more damage than the launchers so it's not like the damage is game breaking against the enemies, but self kills can make the game less enjoyable for the player AND their team mates (reviving them), and it's area where there are other options out there that offer a balance between the two.  

What I do realise now is that you're just going to go against everyone else's view that isn't 'get gud' so bothering with your future comments isn't worth the time or effort. 

I'd also like to see stats on the tonkor usage too because I very rarely saw it in levels and hardly used it myself even without the self damage. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by LSG501

[LSG501]

double post, forum lag

Edited March 27, 2017 by LSG501