Give Ivara's Quiver a wheel selector?

[BasKy]

By mantaining 1, a small wheel could appear somewhere in the screen (I suppose middle-down) with the diffferent arrow types at the left, right, up and down. So, you hold 1 and then move your mouse to one of those directions to select your desired arrow type. It would be much faster and you don't need to cycle through the different arrow types. Besides, this way you can press 1 and fire the arrow (I dislike holding 1 to change arrow/fire arrow).

If this gets implemented, you won't need to stop and look bottom right to ensure you are selecting the right arrow. I belive that a small wheel would be better, because you can quickly learn that, for example, cloak arrow is at the top, sleep at the right, noise left, and dashwire bottom. Meaning you can hold 1 and quickly move your mouse to a direction and release 1 to select the arrow type.

[Imaru]

Also do this for Vauban please.

[Birdframe_Prime]

20 minutes ago, BasKy said:

-snip-

Just now, Imaru said:

-also snip-

Just to help you out, in your settings you can change the Quiver and Minelayer abilities to fire on tap and change on hold if you prefer that way. A wheel might be fun, but the switch in your preferences might help you out in the mean time!

[Imaru]

39 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Just to help you out, in your settings you can change the Quiver and Minelayer abilities to fire on tap and change on hold if you prefer that way. A wheel might be fun, but the switch in your preferences might help you out in the mean time!

That though doesn't solve the problem of needing to cycle through up to 3 at a time to get to the one you want. 

[VampirePirate]

For the love of all that is Warframe, please do this.

[LuckyCharm]

I would like this a lot. Especially if centered around your reticle so a quick flick will change arrow/ mine. Havr my +1 sir

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I support this

[Insizer]

i like how it is now. make your thing an option

[Nezha_Rose]

This is a massive QoL if its also added to my man Vaubans

[yles9056]

Anything that makes Quiver(and similar abilities) easier to use gets my upvote.

[InDueTime-EN-]

1 hour ago, Insizer said:

i like how it is now. make your thing an option

I agree with this. I don't really like wheels. Those can be very useful with controllers as well so if it is optional it would be fine.

I like being able to aim and shoot people while cycling my abilities. 

[BasKy]

Making it optional is always the best obviously. But, I don't understand why would someone prefer the current system over a wheel. It would be just faster and much more practical. This way you can quickly change arrow type and resume shooting, or press 1 and use the arrow. If we leave it unchanged you will be a lot of time changing arrows because you need to hold 1. If you have the other configuration, then you will be slower when you need to fire the arrow.

I hate it when you need to hold X number to use an ability but we don't have a choice here. With Ivara you can somehow fix this if you use Artemis Bow, because you can shoot the arrow by pressing Secondary fire button, but that still leaves you with a really unpracticall cycle selector. If you accidentally press 1 one more time, you can't go back and you need to cycle through all of them again. At least an option to use the mouse wheel so you can scroll up and down.

Warframe is a really fast game, I can't simply stop to press 1 while watching at the bottom corner of the screen.
 

12 hours ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

I agree with this. I don't really like wheels. Those can be very useful with controllers as well so if it is optional it would be fine.

I like being able to aim and shoot people while cycling my abilities. 

Can you tell me how exactly you manage to change arrows while shooting? It would really help me out.
Generally when I want to change arrow I try to do it FAST. So I am not shooting anybody. If I need to cloak a dying teammate, I need to do it now, so I will stop shooting. The same with the other arrows. If you need to use it you will stop shooting. And even if you need to aim and shoot while you change, HOW do you do it? xD

And with a wheel you would select the arrow faster anyways.

[Insizer]

18 hours ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

I agree with this. I don't really like wheels. Those can be very useful with controllers as well so if it is optional it would be fine.

I like being able to aim and shoot people while cycling my abilities. 

Exactly, I don't really understand why people think that a wheel would be an improvement.  It would be just like the equipment wheel.  You would have to press a button, register where the sub-ability you want it is on the thing that just popped up, move your mouse and press another button whilst combat is going on... As opposed to just looking at the quiver that is already on the screen, seeing how many sub-abilities you are away from the one you want then press one button that many times.  It becomes even easier if you memorize the order.  Ivara: invis arrow, rope arrow, useless arrow, night-night arrow.  Vauban: gravity lift, tripwire, boom boom mine, Fukushima.

All of this said, if it floats some people's boats then by all means, just make it an option as I don't want to be forced to use another equipment wheel.

[BasKy]

3 minutes ago, Insizer said:

Exactly, I don't really understand why people think that a wheel would be an improvement.  It would be just like the equipment wheel.  You would have to press a button, register where the sub-ability you want it is on the thing that just popped up, move your mouse and press another button whilst combat is going on... As opposed to just looking at the quiver that is already on the screen, seeing how many sub-abilities you are away from the one you want then press one button that many times.  It becomes even easier if you memorize the order.  Ivara: invis arrow, rope arrow, useless arrow, night-night arrow.  Vauban: gravity lift, tripwire, boom boom mine, Fukushima.

All of this said, if it floats some people's boats then by all means, just make it an option as I don't want to be forced to use another equipment wheel.

Well I don't understand how is it worst either. You don't need to press 1 again after you open the wheel, just maintain and release. it's simply faster. And Quiver is already on screen yes, but right in the corner. You either look at the quiver or you look at everything else. My point is that you loose time when you look down and do the whole process.

The current equipment wheel is ugly. You need to press the button to bring it up, and click on the item (still beter than cycling through Ivara's Quiver in my opinion). What I am proposing is slightly different. Hold 1, move your mouse to any direction, and release. You don't need to stop over the Cloak icon, just move the cursor to the right.
Basically, when you hold 1, your screen is divided by four. Depending on the position your mouse is when you release it, you get a certain arrow. So, you hold 1 for a very short moment, quiclky move your mouse, release. Press 1 again to shoot your arrow. It's faster. I can understand that some people won't like it. There is always someone that doesn't like something. But you can't deny that a wheel makes it faster. Besides, you wont need to hold 1 every time you will shoot an arrow.

And yes we agree that making it an option is better. Options are always better, because we all like different things.

 

[Insizer]

5 hours ago, BasKy said:

Making it optional is always the best obviously. But, I don't understand why would someone prefer the current system over a wheel. It would be just faster and much more practical. This way you can quickly change arrow type and resume shooting, or press 1 and use the arrow. If we leave it unchanged you will be a lot of time changing arrows because you need to hold 1. If you have the other configuration, then you will be slower when you need to fire the arrow.

I hate it when you need to hold X number to use an ability but we don't have a choice here. With Ivara you can somehow fix this if you use Artemis Bow, because you can shoot the arrow by pressing Secondary fire button, but that still leaves you with a really unpracticall cycle selector. If you accidentally press 1 one more time, you can't go back and you need to cycle through all of them again. At least an option to use the mouse wheel so you can scroll up and down.

Warframe is a really fast game, I can't simply stop to press 1 while watching at the bottom corner of the screen.
 

Can you tell me how exactly you manage to change arrows while shooting? It would really help me out.
Generally when I want to change arrow I try to do it FAST. So I am not shooting anybody. If I need to cloak a dying teammate, I need to do it now, so I will stop shooting. The same with the other arrows. If you need to use it you will stop shooting. And even if you need to aim and shoot while you change, HOW do you do it? xD

And with a wheel you would select the arrow faster anyways.

You press the button... that's how.  I dont know about you but i can press 1/2 while holding/clicking LMB.  It is super easy.  I do it all the time.  See my previous post for a description of how to do it.

The question is how do you shoot while having your aim frozen, your aim controls hijacked, and your sight interrupted by a popup?  That's what I want to know.  Do your enemies stop moving and stop firing?  Mine don't.

For me the answer is obvious: it is much quicker and much more practical to cycle though the sub-abilities than having my combat capability interrupted by a popup that hijacks my half of my controls and my concentration because I'm now forced to register and interact with a new equipment wheel.  I just don't see how another equipment wheel is faster than pressing a single button a few times, especially when some of those sub-abilities are useless or impractical.  In high stress environments Ivara doesn't use half of her quiver, she only uses cloak and sleep.  You either press it quiver 1 time or 3 times.  As for Vauban... its a bit different as 3/4 of his sub-abilities can be practically used in the middle of combat.  But he also has Bastille and Vortex which are even better at interrupting combat.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how it is harder to cycle than it is to use a new GUI.  But to each their own.

[BasKy]

3 minutes ago, Insizer said:

You press the button... that's how.  I dont know about you but i can press 1/2 while holding/clicking LMB.  It is super easy.  I do it all the time.  See my previous post for a description of how to do it.

The question is how do you shoot while having your aim frozen, your aim controls hijacked, and your sight interrupted by a popup?  That's what I want to know.  Do your enemies stop moving and stop firing?  Mine don't.

For me the answer is obvious: it is much quicker and much more practical to cycle though the sub-abilities than having my combat capability interrupted by a popup that hijacks my half of my controls and my concentration because I'm now forced to register and interact with a new equipment wheel.  I just don't see how another equipment wheel is faster than pressing a single button a few times, especially when some of those sub-abilities are useless or impractical.  In high stress environments Ivara doesn't use half of her quiver, she only uses cloak and sleep.  You either press it quiver 1 time or 3 times.  As for Vauban... its a bit different as 3/4 of his sub-abilities can be practically used in the middle of combat.  But he also has Bastille and Vortex which are even better at interrupting combat.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how it is harder to cycle than it is to use a new GUI.  But to each their own.

Yes but in order to press that you had to look down and see what arrow was selected. After that you say you shoot (and maybe move on a very limited way) while pressing 1, and then you need to hold 1 to shoot. You say this is better than holding 1 for 0.5 seconds, move your mouse, release, and press 1. The same way you were shooting and moving to the right while changing and looking how many times you need to press 1, you could also jump and change arrow before touching the ground.

No my enemies don't stop shooting. I would use the same instant you used to look down and see the arrow, to change the arrow. And then you need to hold 1 to use it. By that time I already fired it 2 times. Every time you want to use sleep, you need to hold it, and I can just press it once.

[Insizer]

1 hour ago, BasKy said:

Well I don't understand how is it worst either. You don't need to press 1 again after you open the wheel, just maintain and release. it's simply faster. And Quiver is already on screen yes, but right in the corner. You either look at the quiver or you look at everything else. My point is that you loose time when you look down and do the whole process.

The current equipment wheel is ugly. You need to press the button to bring it up, and click on the item (still beter than cycling through Ivara's Quiver in my opinion). What I am proposing is slightly different. Hold 1, move your mouse to any direction, and release. You don't need to stop over the Cloak icon, just move the cursor to the right.
Basically, when you hold 1, your screen is divided by four. Depending on the position your mouse is when you release it, you get a certain arrow. So, you hold 1 for a very short moment, quiclky move your mouse, release. Press 1 again to shoot your arrow. It's faster. I can understand that some people won't like it. There is always someone that doesn't like something. But you can't deny that a wheel makes it faster. Besides, you wont need to hold 1 every time you will shoot an arrow.

And yes we agree that making it an option is better. Options are always better, because we all like different things.

 

You cant maintain it, because that is what fires your arrows in the first place.  That is the only practical way to do it.  The way you make it sound is like you press 1/2 (Vauban) and it will throw/fire the projectile unless you move your mouse, which makes you select an arrow.  That or you have it such that you have to select the correct sub-ability every time you use it?  How are either of those more convenient that just holding a button for less than a second? How are either of those faster?

It is faster to cycle and hold the button than play with a popup that makes it more of a pain to use the same arrow in repetition.  It is even faster if you preselect what you need or expect you need.  I play Vauban quite a bit, I've rarely had to select something then use it immediately because I select my most reliable one when i'm not using another mine, this makes it quicker to respond as well to odd situations as well as I just have to remember the number of clicks.  However I have had to use the same mine in repetition more times that I can count.  I dont play Ivara often, but I'd do the same thing.  Set Sleep as my default as it at least interrupts enemies and is more versatile that Cloak Arrow, and then I'm only one click away from Cloak if I need it!

I will be slowed down by a popup GUI because that is exactly what happens to me when i use my equipment wheel.  Despite me having kept my health, energy, and ammo pads in the same place for years, I still need to look and find them every single time.

Again, I'm only against your idea if it was mandatory, but that isn't the case.  If you think it will be better for you then fine, but I know based on my experience, that a wheel will slow me down and make me less able to respond to situations effectively.  To each their own.

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by Insizer
somehow misunderstood a part of OP's OP.

[BasKy]

3 minutes ago, Insizer said:

You cant maintain it, because that is what fires your arrows in the first place.  That is the only practical way to do it.  The way you make it sound is like you press 1/2 (Vauban) and it will throw/fire the projectile unless you move your mouse, which makes you select an arrow.  That or you have it such that you have to select the correct sub-ability every time you use it?  How are either of those more convenient that just holding a button for less than a second? How are either of those faster?

It is faster to cycle and hold the button than play with a popup that makes it more of a pain to use the same arrow in repetition.  It is even faster if you preselect what you need or expect you need.  I play Vauban quite a bit, I've rarely had to select something then use it immediately because I select my most reliable one when i'm not using another mine, this makes it quicker to respond as well to odd situations as well as I just have to remember the number of clicks.  However I have had to use the same mine in repetition more times that I can count.  I dont play Ivara often, but I'd do the same thing.  Set Sleep as my default as it at least interrupts enemies and is more versatile that Cloak Arrow, and then I'm only one click away from Cloak if I need it!

I will be slowed down by a popup GUI because that is exactly what happens to me when i use my equipment wheel.  Despite me having kept my health, energy, and ammo pads in the same place for years, I still need to look and find them every single time.

Again, I'm only against your idea if it was mandatory, but that isn't the case.  If you think it will be better for you then fine, but I know based on my experience, that a wheel will slow me down and make me less able to respond to situations effectively.  To each their own.

 

1- Hold 1 for 0,5s
2- Move your mouse and release.
3- Press 1 to shoot anytime you want.
If you want to change arrow, repeat step 1.
 

[Insizer]

1 minute ago, BasKy said:

Yes but in order to press that you had to look down and see what arrow was selected. After that you say you shoot (and maybe move on a very limited way) while pressing 1, and then you need to hold 1 to shoot. You say this is better than holding 1 for 0.5 seconds, move your mouse, release, and press 1. The same way you were shooting and moving to the right while changing and looking how many times you need to press 1, you could also jump and change arrow before touching the ground.

No my enemies don't stop shooting. I would use the same instant you used to look down and see the arrow, to change the arrow. And then you need to hold 1 to use it. By that time I already fired it 2 times. Every time you want to use sleep, you need to hold it, and I can just press it once.

Yes, I glance for a tiny fraction of a second.  Better that then having something interrupt the combat in front of me and rob me of my controls.  At least in my opinion.  Also, I already change arrows and fire them while in the air.

Again, I preselect my arrows/grenades, it just makes sense to me.  As for being able to fire twice while i fire once (actually more than than that, but for the sake of argument i'll agree)... why would i need to fire or throw an interruption twice if I can aim while the charge is happening? You can't with your setup. You have to reacquire either your target or target area because you are likely moving if the situation is as dire as you say.  I shoot where i need to, tune my aim in that half second charge up, then pounce.  If, in the worst situation, i didnt cycle to the one i needed and fired off my "preset sub-ability" well that's fine, because my presets either knock out enemies or stun them for a few seconds, giving me more than enough time to cycle and fire/throw the arrow/grenade i wanted to in the first place.

[BasKy]

3 minutes ago, BasKy said:

1- Hold 1 for 0,5s
2- Move your mouse and release.
3- Press 1 to shoot anytime you want.
If you want to change arrow, repeat step 1.
 

Have I made myself clear? If not, then we will never agree, we should stop.

[Insizer]

4 minutes ago, BasKy said:

1- Hold 1 for 0,5s
2- Move your mouse and release.
3- Press 1 to shoot anytime you want.
If you want to change arrow, repeat step 1.
 

again, if that will help you, then by all means.  I dont want to deal a popup GUI that necessarily robs me of half of my controls when I'm just as effective, if not more so as I am now.

I understand, different strokes for different folks, thats why I just want your thing as an option, which is exactly what you want as well.  So why are we arguing?

EDIT: 

here's mine:

0- set what you need

1- hold 1 for half a second, done.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Insizer
added an admittedly petty response to his order of things

[Insizer]

18 minutes ago, BasKy said:

Have I made myself clear? If not, then we will never agree, we should stop.

you dont need to quote yourself within the span of a minute to say the same thing.

EDIT: we won't agree, but congrads, that's how opinions work.  I respect yours (and your idea so long as its an option), but i disagree with it.  I can only hope that you give me that same courtesy.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Insizer

[BasKy]

12 minutes ago, Insizer said:

you dont need to quote yourself within the span of a minute to say the same thing.

I simply wanted both of us to be in the same part of the conversation. While I was writing an answer to your old comment, you were doing the same to my other comment and not the last one, or backwards, and I dont like that.
We were arguing because I don't think that this would "necessarily robs me of half of my controls", because I would be able to change arrow in the same time I had to spend looking at the bottom screen.

You said you usually use only 2 of Quiver's options, wich makes it even more annoying to cycle through both of them every time.

I said the thing about firing twice as an example of how fast I think it would be.

Found an example.
Ignore the guy, se how fast he makes alerts. And he could do it faster also. It's not intrusive.
 

"0- set what you need

1- hold 1 for half a second, done."

That's not true. You need to first look at your Quiver and see how many times you need to select it and you don't do that in half a second. And in a frenetic game as Warframe you just can't multitask like that. But you will say you do because yes.
If you are new to Ivara it's even worse. but ok

[Insizer]

1 hour ago, BasKy said:

I simply wanted both of us to be in the same part of the conversation. While I was writing an answer to your old comment, you were doing the same to my other comment and not the last one, or backwards, and I dont like that.
We were arguing because I don't think that this would "necessarily robs me of half of my controls", because I would be able to change arrow in the same time I had to spend looking at the bottom screen.

You said you usually use only 2 of Quiver's options, wich makes it even more annoying to cycle through both of them every time.

I said the thing about firing twice as an example of how fast I think it would be.

Found an example.
Ignore the guy, se how fast he makes alerts. And he could do it faster also. It's not intrusive.

-snipped to make the post smaller- 

"0- set what you need

1- hold 1 for half a second, done."

That's not true. You need to first look at your Quiver and see how many times you need to select it and you don't do that in half a second. And in a frenetic game as Warframe you just can't multitask like that. But you will say you do because yes.
If you are new to Ivara it's even worse. but ok

Yeah it was annoying how it seemed we somehow had two conversations going on between the same two people lol.  

I fully understood what you were aiming for, without the video.  You wanted it to be "hold for half of a second, quickly flick in the direction you of the arrow you want, then, within a tiny fraction of a second, release your hold"  I respect that, and respect those who could do that.  I know I couldn't do it, based on my experiences with the equipment wheel and such.  For me it wouldn't take 0.6 seconds to do it that.  One of the biggest thing is that the wheel only appears when i would click the button, making it a temporary annoyance that draws my attention, just like the equipment wheel.  I'd be more likely to use your suggestion if the wheel was in the same place as the cycle at all times and not move when the ability key is held, allowing me to see where i need to flick beforehand.

The other thing is that it hijack my aim controls in the process.  If I have to register the menu before using it then it would be annoying.  In the meanwhile I can quickly glance over, count icons and count my button presses quickly without devoting much if any concentration at doing so.  It is even better when i preselect my most effective sub-ability... which I do, which I thought everyone would do.

If I play Ivara, i always preselect Nap-nap Arrow.  Not only is it clearly the best one, but I'm one click away from Cloak (the second best one).  I don't need to concentrate at all. Click then hold.  Once I'm done with Cloak arrow then reselect Sleep arrow. 

As for your critique of "my way"... that is actually how it works... it really is... I'm not sure at all how you don't understand that.  I preselect the most reliable interruption (which is all you need in panic situations) and use it when a crisis occurs. Aim while holding, then bam!  I don't need to glance or anything.  I've already loaded the round and cocked the trigger ahead of time.  If it indeed takes 0.5 second to fire/throw (which I think we both have assumed for the sake of argument at this point) then yes, it would take exactly that long. I say I do, because I actually do, not because of me just wanting to yell something back.  There is no multitasking involved when you've already selected the best interruption you have.  Don't brush this off.  It is preparation, not petty words.  This makes it so i dont have to cycle though them.  Even if you don't select the best one you have, but only set one as a default then, you just learn how many clicks away your desired one it from this default.  Make the selection absolute by making it all relative to a "default" origin.  To me, all of this is second nature.  Second nature especially because both Ivara and Vauban dont fly by the seat of their pants, they are more tactical than that.

Also, i'm not new to Ivara by any means.  I've had her since she came out, and have used her enough to where I'm quite competent.  That said, she is not my main, nor my go-to unless it is a Spy mission.  On the other hand, I've used Vauban thoroughly since he came out and since his changes (it wasn't big enough to be a rework lets be honest).  I've been at the point where I $&*^ around with him while still carrying the team for a couple years now.

I wont deny, for a bit I was a little confused by your first post... for some reason my gears skipped a tooth and it wasn't clicking... I'm not sure why, but yeah.  I understand it now, and am a little more warm to it, but the new GUI thing still holds me back. And I'm just not dissatisfied with how it is now.  For me, glancing over to a common location isn't interrupting the game because I can do it freely whenever, whereas having my aim controls diverted does count as interrupting the game.  It is that simple.  That is why I'm satisfied with the current system.

At this point we are talking milliseconds in extreme situations.  Warframe may be dynamic and fast-paced, but not that dynamic and fast-paced.  We are not dogfighting a hundred feet over the ocean.  We are playing a team v horde game with overpowered guns and overpowered abilities (especially CC) on characters that are extremely mobile. Not only that, but we are arguing over literally nothing, we both want this as an option. And we didn't even have to compromise!

Edited July 6, 2017 by Insizer

[InDueTime-EN-]

10 hours ago, BasKy said:

Can you tell me how exactly you manage to change arrows while shooting? It would really help me out.
Generally when I want to change arrow I try to do it FAST. So I am not shooting anybody. If I need to cloak a dying teammate, I need to do it now, so I will stop shooting. The same with the other arrows. If you need to use it you will stop shooting. And even if you need to aim and shoot while you change, HOW do you do it? xD

And with a wheel you would select the arrow faster anyways.

Yes the wheel is faster for most people, but the wheel will stop you from moving and not allow you to aim.
I prefer the current system because it suits my play style, but I am not against having a wheel as an option.

As for how and when I am shooting while switching. It really depends on the situation, there are times when I'm rolling around and then I enter a big room where I can use ziplines, I would continue moving to my target while switching to ziplines and then use it while moving. Once the zipline is attached I stop onto it and keep moving forward switching to which ever arrow I need next, sleep/noise usually. This happens a lot in solo stealth missions.