DE just threw away everything they learned in the last 3 years with Harrow

[Airwolfen]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

Still, even with Shield Gating, there's far too much stuff that can easily bypass Shields to really make them worth building into.

In harrows case it is very much different though. more shields = faster stacking, and on top of that having 3k shields is still quite the defense between stack times.

And it depends on how they implement shield gating as to how good building shields will be in the future. note that those enemies that bypass shields mostly do those through status effects that can be outhealed easily.

[.Fire_Fly.]

TBH i agree with op, I understand his powers. even put 2 formas on the guy, but at the end of the day, I cant get anything done because my team mates will have killed the hole room and be already running on in to the next before I even got done using my 4th power, so if i understand this I need to Kill to make any use of my powers right? well its not possible if the rest of the team killed everything before i got the chance to which makes him stupid. other frames can and do kill things faster before harrow can even get finished using his 4th power, its  a fact.

[AbyssalCrow]

1. Thurible requires you to swing it around to leave the player vulnerable and lets you choose how much energy you wish to use as it drains a lot.

2. Penance buff is actually pretty decent if you aren't gutting power strength and use Condemn for those sick shields, Which is why it takes your shields as you can easily get them back by casting Condemn on any group of enemies. Do keep in mind it doesn't just buff Reload and Fire rate but also gives Health back on headshots and i think regular kills aswell.

3. Competing for kills... Only time i could even think of this happening if you have a constant room-clearing teammate in a very cramped area. If it's really a problem then find a spot that still spawns enemies even if its a bit on the boundaries of your teammates AO. However if its a map that doesn't require sitting in an area murdering people (Spy, Exterminate, etc.) then those are hardly anything to complain about competing for kills as those missions are over quick.

4. Condemn is really short even without natural talent, Penance is long but as with Thurible its to keep you vulnerable as you ARE sacrificing your shields, Thurible can be stopped at any time so its casting length is based on how much energy the player wants back on kills, Covenant is the only real annoyance but you are godmoded and get buffs for getting shot (aswell as teammates getting shot) so its not much of a concern.

Harrow is a fantastic frame that rewards accurate kills and PERSONALLY i haven't had any troubles achieving these headshots as any times it didn't hit was because i was slightly off.

TLDR - Seems like you just don't actually like the frame's makeup of abilities and risk. If you want ez pz buffs then use Octavia

 

[blackheartstar_pc]

3 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

In harrows case it is very much different though. more shields = faster stacking, and on top of that having 3k shields is still quite the defense between stack times.

And it depends on how they implement shield gating as to how good building shields will be in the future. note that those enemies that bypass shields mostly do those through status effects that can be outhealed easily.

That's the truth of it. On top of the out healing option with toxin you can mod to the point it can be ignored if someone is having that big of an issue with it. With both Rapid Resilience and Antitoxin on together you can stroll right through toxin clouds and the like.

[IggySnow]

I actually think Harrow is one of the best designed warframes there is. He requires you to be much more active and engaged than most other frames. And all his powers mix his abilities with your weapons so you aren't left to picking between the two.

Edited July 6, 2017 by HerpDerpy

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

So did you just forget about the Scourge's bullet attractor mode, or were you just neglecting that? That gives you all the automatic headshots you need, sure, you need to use your secondary weapon, but who cares? It's how you use him easiest.. He came with that weapon for a reason 

Edited July 6, 2017 by (PS4)Poloboyzz93

[-Krism-]

I don't get your post, if don't know how to play him, then don't play him, that's it.

[Skaleek]

I personally feel like penance is his best ability. The life steal works on all damage done, and the attack speed increase is not negligible. His ult i find a little short, but I dont think he's a poorly designed warframe, not at all. I'm not a huge fan of his passive and using shields to power this one aspect of his kit, that felt a little tacked on. I would've been okay if they just had him entirely hp based but i can see why with nidus and inaros being so powerful they decided to balance around shields. I would like to see a better way to recover shields in a more reliable way since im not a huge fan of his 1.

Compared to a frame like Zephyr he's streets ahead. All in All i'd give a Harrow an 8/10, where I gave Nidus a 9, and Ivara a 10. Zephyr gets a 2.

[Mintaro]

I think harrow is well designed and well balance. I find him engaging as a support frame that requires skill rather than just activate buff then afk. I love his look so op fashionframe and i look forward more designs like this sorry but i think this the right way. Now im not against simple warframes i don't mind that but man some of them can be boring when they are too effective at little cost. 

Yes i understand warframes that nuke abilities is a problem to harrow that always been an issue with everyone that doesn't nuke so this is no suprise i mean trinity can't do it if the team is using drain abilities and especially a bless trin since they are slow at energy sharing to begin with.

[SamareRein]

If you don't like him, go back to your precious press 4 and win frames then ok?

*laughs at your badness and goes on with my day*

[WingsOfGryphin]

Worst frame design? FAR FAR FAR from that. Imho his penance is one of the most OP buffs in this game with very long duration.

And i consider the energy gain mechanic to be the best so far. Trinity is absolute cancer - she shouldn't give out so much energy in so little time without having the need to even be able to damage enemies. Because of her we even have nullifiers , because of her most of the content is trivilialized with massive energy spam - LOR is cheesed through because of trinity. That's why i consider this energy gain mechanic to be the best because it has a condition and it requires support to be engaged in combat.

His first ability is also great - doesn't sway or stagger enemies he freezes them solid for opening them up for headshots WHILE returning overshields. Fantastic CC and gives surviveability at that. 

His ultimate ability is also good - with maxed duration you can give allies absolute immortality for what it seems like 10 seconds. After it wears off you get massive crit chance boost. In high levels you pretty much always max it out - making most weapons to orange crit. 

 

HOW IS HE A BADLY DESIGNED FRAME? 

I don't want DE to be influenced by the OP's opinion. Where is the downvote button when you need one... 

Edited July 6, 2017 by WingsOfGryphin

[(PSN)CharlieX05]

On 7/5/2017 at 10:21 AM, BPNPC said:

What a terrible frame. DE's frame design has improved significantly in recent years with frames like Ivara and Nidus, and then they completely throw all that away with Harrow.

He's probably the worst frame DE has ever released, and I say "probably" because I wasn't around for Oberon and Hydroid releases. Let's ignore the fact that headshots is a buggy mechanic that doesn't register half the time. His abilities are a mix of "why" with plain terrible. Why does Thurible require you to swing a yoyo for 20s, preventing you from playing the game? Why does Penance eat all your shields for a negligible buff? Why do you have to compete for kills to get energy? Why was Penance nerfed on release despite the fact it's underpowered to begin with? Why does all his abilities have massive casting animations?

I'm honestly amazed DE can seemingly make such great strides forward in frame development, then prove they actually learned nothing by releasing a frame as terrible as Harrow.

No doubt people will tell me that I simply don't know how to play Harrow, or that it's too soon to make a judgement. I honestly feel bad for people who bought him with plat.

POST-BUFF: I stand by everything I said. He's still terrible.

Im sure everything youre saying is probably correct, just ignore the low MR white knights trashing you.

We dont have him on console yet, but a decent player can tell with one look at his abilities that hes not going to be very useful compared to other warframes.

[Flamingauss]

Imo better than trinity. He's an offensive Support with amazing abilities. I'm actually surprised he got a buff. His 1 is practically an ult. and with maxed energy after you hit his 3 you get everything back with a few kills. 2nd ability is constant, you get max shield, hit 2 hit 1 rinse/repeat and you're golden. Plus the heal off your 2 is hit based not kill based so if you have high tier enemies that you light up you're constantly giving yourself and your team health back. His ult could use more time on the second half. Harrow is pretty far from being terrible. On a side note, I dont see the problems with headshots... unless you're using spread weapons like shotguns or launchers you'll have no problems. Still using the ex-meta soma build and end 40 min survivals with around 200-300 headshots out of all my kills.

[Mak_Gohae]

some time they release solo frames. 

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Charliecrj said:

Im sure everything youre saying is probably correct, just ignore the low MR white knights trashing you.

So anyone and everyone that disagrees with the OP's assessment of Harrow is a White Knight? Gotcha.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Charliecrj said:

We dont have him on console yet, but a decent player can tell with one look at his abilities that hes not going to be very useful compared to other warframes.

A "decent" player will only look at stats and immediately pass judgement on that alone; a good, experienced player reserves critical judgement until AFTER they've gotten a chance to really try out a new  'Frame or weapon, because good, experienced players know that raw stats and ability descriptions are only part of a bigger picture. Considering how many people, experienced players mind you, have chimed in on this thread to say how good Harrow is compared to other 'Frames one would reasonably conclude that Harrow's pretty useful. 

But what do us "White Knight" PC players really know, eh?

[TennoPain]

TB honest im a bit frustrated with ''tall helmets design and reskin stuff) but thats it other than that i like the design its not bad looking also harrow is STRONK

[Semune]

Harrow's only place is in high level Survival where there's too many enemies for others to kill before you can get to them. There is where he shines, because in chaotic moments you can make everyone invincible, be an energy battery, and buff/heal everyone. Proper use of Harrow means you won't die after using his 2 (bad players will have an issue with this, hint, you can use it with his 4).

I think that he is ONLY good in survival though. Worst frame ever? Zephyr would like a word with you. He has his uses, and can easily support endless survival.

With that said, I dread seeing pubs play him, because proper play requires 100% uptime on buffs, and proper timing on his 4.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Semune

[Horaciozhao]

21 hours ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

TBH i agree with op, I understand his powers. even put 2 formas on the guy, but at the end of the day, I cant get anything done because my team mates will have killed the hole room and be already running on in to the next before I even got done using my 4th power, so if i understand this I need to Kill to make any use of my powers right? well its not possible if the rest of the team killed everything before i got the chance to which makes him stupid. other frames can and do kill things faster before harrow can even get finished using his 4th power, its  a fact.

I think his 4 needs something like Nyx's absorb, when you turn it on, it dramatically increase his aggro level to enemies, so everything in the room start targeting him.

[Yaerion]

I think that this ranting/brainstorming thread between players has run its course.

Now that you're all ready with a clear sight of the potential issues & some suggestions to solve them, submit a proper and respectful feedback+suggestions in the appropriate Feedback subforum, so that DE may consider them for implementation in the game.

I'd like to remind you the 1st & 2d rules of the Guidelines about Respect and Quality Standards: do not bash, do not rage-post. post with a constructive mindset. Thank you.

Condemned.