THIS is what Archwing should be like

[Silvus-Sol]

_{(Video is inside the spoiler for space saving, not because its actually a spoiler for anything.)}

Spoiler

 

That is what I dreamed of when I first heard about Archwing. Not shooting at different colored balloons and ospreys.

Give us something substantial to shoot at. We see all those Corpus and Grineer ships floating around, yet we never engage them. Why? Seems like engaging one would make for the perfect Archwing mission. Engage the vessel(s) and take out critical systems and structures while fending off the small fries, then watch it go boom at the end. I mean, we do attack the Famorians (which is my favorite Archwing mission btw) but those are special and event only.

Oh, and the Corpus sabotage mission doesn't count. That's more like the Death Star trench run than anything else. I'm talking about conflicts with large vessels that you target externally.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Silvus-Sol

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

Didn't Steve shows us that he was working on something literally just like this, wherein we fight spaceships with our Liset in stuff?

I think the only literal difference is that it's with our Liset instead of Archwing.
 

 

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

This is pretty much what I hoped Pursuit would be. Multi-stage space battle with a giant fleeing cruiser which deploys fighter squadrons to defend its destructible points (engines, radar, missile platforms, comms array, etc.), climaxing with a trench-run dive, on-foot assault of the reactor core, and back to archwing for the escape before it blows.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

Well Archwing still needs to be fleshed out even more, but like everything, pretty sure DE moved on already and shelved whatever wasn't fully done. Archwing needs more actual Archwings, more weapons, and definitely more tilesets, at least that way even old mission types would feel new.

[Firetempest]

8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

Didn't Steve shows us that he was working on something literally just like this, wherein we fight spaceships with our Liset in stuff?

I think the only literal difference is that it's with our Liset instead of Archwing.

The Liset was just for the prototype. The idea was for them to be clan owned cruisers varying in a few sizes for number of crew.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

3 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

The Liset was just for the prototype. The idea was for them to be clan owned cruisers varying in a few sizes for number of crew.

Nice to know, but my previous point still stands.

I think DE's already trying out what @Silvus-Sol is suggesting.

[Alcoholism]

 

[Silvus-Sol]

14 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

The Liset was just for the prototype. The idea was for them to be clan owned cruisers varying in a few sizes for number of crew.

Not that clan cruisers don't sound awesome, but why do we need them? We have a terribly underutilized system for space combat already, the Archwing.

I'd rather they finish and expand upon Archwing instead of going for cruisers right now. We don't need a new space-combat toy when our current one will work just fine. Especially since some people were hoping we would get to do this with our Archwings from the get go. Seems so unfair to finally deliver on that expectation but not actually for the Archwings themselves.

Not to mention it seems like it would save on development time/costs to not have to build new toys for us just yet. Not giving us cruisers would allow them to keep the focus on the new missions and enemy ships.

[Kinetos]

1 minute ago, Silvus-Sol said:

Not that clan cruisers don't sound awesome, but why do we need them? We have a terribly underutilized system for space combat already, the Archwing.

I'd rather they finish and expand upon Archwing instead of going for cruisers right now. We don't need a new space-combat toy when our current one will work just fine. Especially since some people were hoping we would get to do this with our Archwings from the get go. Seems so unfair to finally deliver on that expectation but not actually for the Archwings themselves.

Not to mention it seems like it would save on development time/costs to not have to build new toys for us just yet. Not giving us cruisers would allow them to keep the focus on the new missions and enemy ships.

We'll we able to deploy our Archwings in that mode.

[Ceryk]

9 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

Not that clan cruisers don't sound awesome, but why do we need them?

They are removing Clan Solar Rails from the game and giving us Clan Rail Ships instead. They only went into minor concept detail in the Art Panel about it, but the idea is that clans will use these to get around in a group, presumably to certain types of content where the normal Corpus controlled Solar Rails Lisets covertly use can't or don't access, and have to defend the ship while it is in transit.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Ceryk

[Silvus-Sol]

12 minutes ago, Ceryk said:

They are removing Clan Solar Rails from the game and giving us Clan Rail Ships instead. They only went into minor concept detail in the Art Panel about it, but the idea is that clans will use these to get around, presumably to certain types of content, and have to defend the ship while it is in transit.

Okay, that does sound amazing. It also sounds like even more of a reason to not force them into the mix just yet. Not because I don't want it, but because that sounds like a big, big, BIG project.

IMO they should start smaller and faster and get the content out just for Archwing at first. Use the new 'Archwing vs Enemy Ships' missions as a sort of testing ground for the bigger clan project. Then integrate the Clan Rail Ships as a sort of expansion off of that at a later date.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Silvus-Sol

[Legion-Shields]

I don't like the idea of flying a fighter just to shoot at easy to hit targets like capital ships. I'm an interceptor, not a bomber dammit:

 

 

[Silvus-Sol]

19 hours ago, Legion-Shields said:

I don't like the idea of flying a fighter just to shoot at easy to hit targets like capital ships. I'm an interceptor, not a bomber dammit

You can still be an interceptor in pretty much every other Archwing mission though, so why not have a "bomber" type mission or two? It may not be your cup of tea, but more variety is rarely a bad thing. If it's done well you may enjoy more than you'd think.

[Legion-Shields]

40 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

You can still be an interceptor in pretty much every other Archwing mission though, so why not have a "bomber" type mission or two? It may not be your cup of tea, but more variety is rarely a bad thing. If it's done well you may enjoy more than you'd think.

fair point.

[Brasten]

Mission Start! A fast space beat'm'up is far more in keeping with Warframes over-all style of play. The full flight sim-thing didn't work out so well, and I'm not sure there is enough of an audience for it among the general Warframe player base. At least a beat'm'up in similar style to Zone of the Enders retains aspects of Warframe's foot game. And also keeps orientation setup in such a way that level assets can be shared between Warframe and Archwing development, without having to make sure everything looks good when viewed upside down.

Spoiler

 

Another option would be something like the already mentioned Strike Suit Zero, or the Macross show that inspired such games

Spoiler

 

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Brasten

[Legion-Shields]

3 hours ago, Brasten said:

 

  Hide contents

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Legion-Shields

[Culaio]

One of problems DE has with making archwing better is that everyone wants it to be something different, so how they are going to satisfy everyone(or at least most amount of people)...

For example in my opinion, archwing should take inspiration rom strike suit zero, especially its two modes:

-"space fighter" mode - high speed space dogfights (move kinda like jet fighter, moving mostl forward)

-"mech" mode - slower but more precise movement  (VTOL like movement, slower then space fighter mode but ability to move in any direction including  backward, also able to make quick turns)

I think having two modes of movement would make combat more engaging, especially  since I believe archwing NEEDS space dog fights or archwing combat to be engaging, which could be very hard to make enjoyable in current type of movement, its possible to make space dog fights without 6DoF movement but lack of it would makespace dog ights more annoying which is why so many people asked for 6DoF in the first place(including me) we want space dog fights, without 6DoF you will end up in situation where you are pursuing enemy(for example going above or below you), and then you will lose track of him because you reached limit of your rotation axis,

I know that many people had problem with 6DoF in archwing(made them feel sick), but I believe that this problem can be resovled sinc I saw people who never felt sick in other games with 6DoF, felt sick in archwing with 6DoF so it means that its problem of archwing 6DoF and not 6DoF in general.

Another game from which DE should take inspiration or arhcwing is "dark void":

only beginning of video:

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Culaio

[PsychedelicSnake]

Archwing should just be Zone of the Enders / Zone of the Enders 2.

That shit is the hypest. And the devs themselves have said that it was a huge inspiration not only for Archwing but for Warframe in general. You can see it in the art design for many Warframes, accessories, and so on. For example, the Trinity Meridian Helmet is literally just a narrower version of the head of a ZoE robot.

[Shalath]

I've always assumed archwing was inspired by Gundam but the weapons at least are the equivalent of the grunt troops rather than the flashy mechs. Huge beams? Not so much. Seeking Fire made me think that is going to be a nice impressive barrage and I was highly disappointed when I saw it. Those were missiles??

If archwing had more variety in missions and weapons (especially some that felt really powerful and went big on effects) I would certainly be a lot happier. I really like archwing but after a few missions the novelty wears off as the missions are all pretty much the same. Aside from trying syndicate weapons I have little reason to run the missions other than "well, haven't done one in a while".

[Culaio]

1 hour ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

Archwing should just be Zone of the Enders / Zone of the Enders 2.

That S#&$ is the hypest. And the devs themselves have said that it was a huge inspiration not only for Archwing but for Warframe in general. You can see it in the art design for many Warframes, accessories, and so on. For example, the Trinity Meridian Helmet is literally just a narrower version of the head of a ZoE robot.

The thing is that ZOE does not work with warframe, ZOE gameplay mechanics dont mash well with horde shooter-like gameplay because ZOE uses extensivly lock-on + strafting to make combat engaging so to achieve ZOE like gameplay DE would need to decrease amount of enemies by a LOT, strengthen enemies so they would need multiple hits to take down each enemy, another problem is that ZOE focuses on melee weapon as weapon that deals most damage, so to achieve ZOE like gameplay you would have to weaken long range weapons so they would deal 1/3(at MOST, probably they would have to be weaken even more then that) of current damage they deal.

fundamentally to achieve ZOE like gameplay you would have to remove most of things that currently make warfame, the warframe.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Culaio

[PsychedelicSnake]

5 hours ago, Culaio said:

The thing is that ZOE does not work with warframe, ZOE gameplay mechanics dont mash well with horde shooter-like gameplay because ZOE uses extensivly lock-on + strafting to make combat engaging so to achieve ZOE like gameplay DE would need to decrease amount of enemies by a LOT, strengthen enemies so they would need multiple hits to take down each enemy, another problem is that ZOE focuses on melee weapon as weapon that deals most damage, so to achieve ZOE like gameplay you would have to weaken long range weapons so they would deal 1/3(at MOST, probably they would have to be weaken even more then that) of current damage they deal.

fundamentally to achieve ZOE like gameplay you would have to remove most of things that currently make warfame, the warframe.

There are horde enemies in Zone of the Enders 2 that die rather quickly, so there's similarities there. Besides, Archwing is balanced differently entirely from the rest of the main game, so it doesn't need to be held to the same balancing standards.

[Culaio]

1 hour ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

There are horde enemies in Zone of the Enders 2 that die rather quickly, so there's similarities there. Besides, Archwing is balanced differently entirely from the rest of the main game, so it doesn't need to be held to the same balancing standards.

well ZOE 2 also has stronger enemies(main enemies) who dont die from one hit, and archwing doesnt have that.

Archwing is currently trying to be like ZOE and it doesnt really work, no one finds what we have now engaging, there is nothing fun about mashing melee key until everything is dead. shooting also isnt really any more engaging, you are pretty much space turret, there isnt really reason for you to move when fighting, you simply enter location(corpus maps), kill everything(while barely moving) move to next "room" with enemies kill everythingand  so on, grinner archwing interception needs even less movement from you, only mission that demands from you to move and  shot is archwing pursuit mission, its only really engaging combat(its engaging but it isnt good because of how annoying to hit weak spots are) in game and it pretty much works like space dog fight, this is reason why I believe archwing needs space dog fights.