Mesa Peacemaker

[Imh4rdcore]

So im having issue with mesa and her dmg. 
We have 2 weapons AKLEX and dual toxocyst 
Aklex is superior in every way than toxocyst and yet toxocyst works better(deals more dmg) with peacemaker (same builds except i have changed pathogen rounds with pistol pestilence on aklex for higher status to compensate) every stat is superior to dual toxocyst like twice except the accuracy which is lower on aklex and you expect overall aklex would do more dmg but it doesnt. My question is "WHY dmg is lower with aklex over dual toxocyst?" Mesa dont get to benefit from rivens but why her weapon scaling with peacemaker is wrong also.

[junyynyyn]

Might be because Dual Toxocysts get a bonus when hitting headshots. Idk if it procs while Mesa is in peacemaker though.

Distant observer made a video on that, check it out here: 

 

[LabMan95]

I think technically her weapons are exalted weapons, like excal's sword or ivara's bow. That means her pistols have their own stats separate from your aklex or dual toxocysts. Her pistols gain from your non acolyte mods i believe, like the other exalted weapons. So since you used pistol pestilence instead of pathogen rounds on one, you're giving up 60% toxin damage for 60% status chance on mesa's base pistols

[Kyryo]

35 minutes ago, junyynyyn said:

Idk if it procs while Mesa is in peacemaker though.

no, it doesn't

 

26 minutes ago, LabMan95 said:

I think technically her weapons are exalted weapons, like excal's sword or ivara's bow. That means her pistols have their own stats separate from your aklex or dual toxocysts. Her pistols gain from your non acolyte mods i believe, like the other exalted weapons. So since you used pistol pestilence instead of pathogen rounds on one, you're giving up 60% toxin damage for 60% status chance on mesa's base pistols

^ THIS. Mesa 4th works like all exalted ablities, so just take a good secondary that can hold 6 PURE DMG or CRITICAL MODS and you are ready to go

Edited July 18, 2017 by Kyryo
fixed typos

[Imh4rdcore]

So i did test that theory from above which isnt just a theory, it works like u said it does i guess mesa actual secondary doesnt matter at all and just the mods does thanks for clearing out this to me wish i knew that sooner

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Imh4rdcore

[THeMooN85]

I was observing this topic to get the answer... so... the answer is 

42 minutes ago, Kyryo said:

just take a good secondary that can hold 6 PURE DMG or CRITICAL MODS and you are ready to go

So... Two primed for crits, 4 pure 90% elemental, Hornet Strike and... Lethal Torrent and Barrel Diffusion?

[KidaTech]

Spoiler

 

I'll leave build here for anyone to try it. with my build i can shred a  lv140 jugg in 17 secs

Edited July 18, 2017 by KidaTech

[_Vortus_]

@Imh4rdcore   Well, for one its not based off the weapons themselves, but the mods.   And you are using a higher dmg mod for the toxin on the Toxocyst over the Aklex.   One has pure damage, other has a dual stat.   That would account for some right there.

[OvisCaedo]

Wow, you went pretty hard into formaing the Dual Toxocysts without really knowing how exalted weapons work.

Anyhow, yeah, it's only the mods that matter... Mostly. It's gimmicky, but the Dual Toxocyst DO actually have a unique interaction that can make Peacemaker a bit stronger. If you proc the Toxocyst buff and THEN activate Peacemaker, it inherits the buff effects until the buff wears off. A while back people started claiming it got silently removed, but from my experience it still feels like it works. Mostly it makes the starting/ramp-up shots go WAY faster.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

1 hour ago, OvisCaedo said:

Mostly. It's gimmicky, but the Dual Toxocyst DO actually have a unique interaction that can make Peacemaker a bit stronger. If you proc the Toxocyst buff and THEN activate Peacemaker, it inherits the buff effects until the buff wears off. A while back people started claiming it got silently removed, but from my experience it still feels like it works. Mostly it makes the starting/ramp-up shots go WAY faster

Correct, if u proc a head shot with dual tox before activating PM, PM does inherit the speed buff for the duration PM is active. And the passive from dual tox is only active for 8 sec. 

3 hours ago, KidaTech said:

  Hide contents

 

I'll leave build here for anyone to try it. with my build i can shred a  lv140 jugg in 17 secs

With CP you will do more damage at higher levels adding another dmg element like convulsion and removing anemic. But that's only if u plan on fighting 150+ lvl enemies. 

[Yaerion]

9 hours ago, Imh4rdcore said:

So im having issue with mesa and her dmg. 
We have 2 weapons AKLEX and dual toxocyst 
Aklex is superior in every way than toxocyst and yet toxocyst works better(deals more dmg) with peacemaker (same builds except i have changed pathogen rounds with pistol pestilence on aklex for higher status to compensate) every stat is superior to dual toxocyst like twice except the accuracy which is lower on aklex and you expect overall aklex would do more dmg but it doesnt. My question is "WHY dmg is lower with aklex over dual toxocyst?" Mesa dont get to benefit from rivens but why her weapon scaling with peacemaker is wrong also.

Shatter Shielded from Feedback]General to Players helping Players.

[rudman88]

1. mesa is affected by the mods but mo riven ( from what i know last )

2. of course is lower, look at you mod is different.

3. mesa peacemaker is a seperate gun by itself affected by your mod

 

sa's Regulator pistols inflict 125 base damage per shot which is further increased by an initial multiplier of 100% / 115% / 133% / 150%. The Regulators' damage multiplier increases as gunshots are fired until a maximum multiplier of ? / ? / ? / 375% is reached. All gunshots have a 300% critical damage multiplier with a 25% critical chance, a 10% status chance, and 100% accuracy.

• Damage is 50% Impact, 25% Puncture, and 25% Slash.
• Initial and maximum damage multipliers are affected by Power Strength, the Pistol Amp aura, and Secondary Weapon mods such as Hornet Strike.
  • Secondary weapon fire rate mods (e.g. Gunslinger), multishot mods (e.g. Barrel Diffusion), element damage mods (e.g. Deep Freeze), crit chance and crit damage mods (e.g. Pistol Gambit and Target Cracker) can affect the performance of Peacemaker as well.
• The damage multiplier increases linearly every two gunshots. Maximum damage potential is reached after 40 gunshots.
• The damage multiplier resets to its initial value if Peacemaker expires or is deactivated.
• The rate of fire will ramp up for each gunshot. The rate of fire will reset if the fire button is released or if no gunshots are fired during a brief period of inactivity.
• The Regulators are automatic; players need only to hold down the fire button to continue firing.
• Casting speed (drawing the Regulators) is affected by Natural Talent and Speed Drift.
• Fire rate is affected by Speed Holster. The aura slightly increases the speed of Mesa's animations between her firing stances; thus, Speed Holster only affects fire rate during these transitions. As of Update 17.5, this may no longer be considered effective.
• Riven Mods do not affect Regulators' damage.

 

[Arcainyx]

4 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

...A while back people started claiming it got silently removed...

The buff from Dual Toxocysts used to interact differently with Peacemaker.  Before the change if the buff was active before you activated Peacemaker it would stay active until Peacemaker was deactivated.  The unlimited duration wasn't something DE intended so they changed that.  I think this is the change you're talking about.

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

...the passive from dual tox is only active for 8 sec...

I thought it lasts for 6 seconds.

[Xzorn]

4 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

 A while back people started claiming it got silently removed, but from my experience it still feels like it works. Mostly it makes the starting/ramp-up shots go WAY faster.

 

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Correct, if u proc a head shot with dual tox before activating PM, PM does inherit the speed buff for the duration PM is active. And the passive from dual tox is only active for 8 sec.

 

Peacemaker used to snapshot the buff from Dual Toxocyst. You can see this in the last test of that video as they retain the buff past it's duration.

This is no longer the case though. You will have the buff for roughly 5 seconds and then return to normal making the combo a very tedious thing to attempt and far less useful when you consider the damage ramping of peacemaker mixed with the need to reset it constantly.

@Imh4rdcore  If you want higher status rates per second then replace Hornet Strike with Anemic Agility to deal with armor. Peacemaker's multiplier is not total damage like what's implied. It functions off base damage. Meaning that it's additive with Hornet Strike and as a result Anemic Agility will give the same DPS output but with much faster Corrosive procs.

I would still recommend Hornet Strike for unarmroed enemies however for ease of use since the increase in fire rate also narrows your reticle quicker.

90% + 60/60x2 Corrosive for lvl 150+ Armor, 90%x2 + P. Heated Corrosive/Heat for General use or Infested, 90%x2 + P.Heated Viral + Heat for Corpus.

[kyori]

Pathogen rounds and pistol pestilence is where the difference is. 

If you want maximum max damage, you cannot even use riven on your secondary because peacemaker won't use riven n that slot will benefit if put another 90% dmg mod. 

Yes, that means your secondary is to fuel peacemaker, not for its own usage (if you get what I mean)

[KidaTech]

13 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

With CP you will do more damage at higher levels adding another dmg element like convulsion and removing anemic. But that's only if u plan on fighting 150+ lvl enemies. 

Yes with CP at higher lvls but you'll want to swap out the 2x60% for 2x90% elementals instead of anemic agility so that you get extra damage while having an even higher DPS because of anemic agility.

[Xzorn]

The level is kinda irrelevant for Corrosive Projection.

You could be shooting at 500 armor (Base level 1 Bombard) and still get a 42.2% increase in damage output.

[RistN]

Whenever you put mods on you're "ability" weapon you mod that weapon.See wikia what are stats and mechanics of peacemaker.I made mistake myself building Dual Tox as Peacemaker.Mistake was because I thought headshot buff Dual Tox has will influence Peacemaker.Truth is that it does but in the end of mission look how many headshots you scored,it's very underwhelming number.Its better to have good secondary like Aklex or ,as I plan to build, Akstilleto ,that you can use in game.Also when you build guns for mesa use elemental/status mods.Status procs like viral and corrosive are worth much more than pure dmg.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

15 hours ago, Xzorn said:

@Imh4rdcore  If you want higher status rates per second then replace Hornet Strike with Anemic Agility to deal with armor. Peacemaker's multiplier is not total damage like what's implied. It functions off base damage. Meaning that it's additive with Hornet Strike and as a result Anemic Agility will give the same DPS output but with much faster Corrosive procs.

This depends on Mesa's power strength though, doesn't it?  If you're running high power strength, then dropping Hornet Strike allows Mesa to ramp up to higher damage much quicker.  If you're only running 30% for Shatter Shield and relying on pistol damage mods, then Hornet Strike is better I think.  I did the math a couple weeks ago on this.

[Xzorn]

21 minutes ago, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:

This depends on Mesa's power strength though, doesn't it?  If you're running high power strength, then dropping Hornet Strike allows Mesa to ramp up to higher damage much quicker.  If you're only running 30% for Shatter Shield and relying on pistol damage mods, then Hornet Strike is better I think.  I did the math a couple weeks ago on this.

 

Yea, it does depend on Power Strength.

I'm not sure where 130% Power falls. I only did numbers and testing for 185-200% Power Strength and the raw DPS parse was indistinguishable between Hornet and Anemic Agility while Gunslinger was a little behind both. I usually recommend Anemic Agility for lvl 200+ armor since at that point even with lower Power Strength the extra Corrosive triggers per second should be a greater benefit.

How did you account for the Fire Rate ramping Peacemaker gives? I had to put footage in a video editor just to get comparable results.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

8 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

How did you account for the Fire Rate ramping Peacemaker gives? I had to put footage in a video editor just to get comparable results.

I only mathed the difference between Hornet Strike vs. non-Hornet Strike with differences in power strength and the ramped damage multiplier.  I think I put in a 90% mod as a substitute.  I just looked for my spreadsheet that I used and I can't seem to find it.