Why Chains of Harrow tries, but still feels like a loss.

[(XBOX)HiddenBioHazard]

Something that I think needs to be pointed out first is that this quest has made people feel grateful for the representation of people on the autistic spectrum, but to the vast majority of the people that I have talked to who are on it, do not like the quest. It's a very ableis quest with how it portrays Rell.

Rell also gets violent throughout the quest which, felt needless until the end. I understand having outbursts and such, but again, why was it needed? Most autistic people are not violent, especially if they have an outburst/breakdown.They're very vulnerable during this, it doesn't make sense, unless the person has maybe problems controlling their anger during this.  Then again, we know little about what's happening to Rell, the void exposure, and the "man in the wall." That, in the end, it might not have been Rell attacking us. However my point still stands since we don't know, or you have to make your own decision from the information you're given.

The cards were very cool, and interesting, showing us that Rell doesn't understand expressing emotion, and it seems like he's not very empathetic. Which isn't a bad thing, he expresses himself differently, such as saying how he feels so others will know. 

Why do we suddenly have hallucinations of ourselves saying "Hey kiddo?" Why now? Are we now traumatized, re-traumatized, or suddenly did this "mantle" of Rell make us see them? Obviously the operators are traumatized from their past already, but why are we just now seeing these hallucinations? You can't just suddenly decided, "Okay, now your mental illness is getting worse."

Also why doesn't our operator talk at all? This is another child, just like us, even if the game keeps trying to push that he's different. I wouldn't sit by, and not speak to him, or try to understand him. With the personality our operators have, which are headstrong and a bit reckless, why wouldn't they try to talk to Rell? Are you telling me, our operators, who went after Tenshin, and the Grineer Queens, wouldn't try to help a fellow Tenno? It just, felt wrong, not to talk.

All in all, I love the creepiness, and trying to make it scary, but they executed this wrong. How they portrayed Rell's autism was ultimately a stereotype. Again, many people have come to relate to Rell, and have loved this quest, but in the end, it just felt like it was using him just to be scary. 

[Chipputer]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)HiddenBioHazard said:

very ableis quest with how it portrays Rell

It portrays him as a person who experiences sensory overload and has trouble comprehending normal human emotion. It also portrays him as someone who saw a need, filled the need, and is now basically being driven crazy by the being that he was attempting to hold back this whole time. What about that is ableist, exactly? Buzz words have no meaning when used every time you don't like something, rather than when used when appropriate.

For the record, nowhere was it stated that Rell was actually on the autistic spectrum. That's an interpretation made based on context clues. Keep that in mind as you judge the quest.

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)HiddenBioHazard said:

Most autistic people are not violent

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)HiddenBioHazard said:

Then again, we know little about what's happening to Rell, the void exposure, and the "man in the wall." That, in the end, it might not have been Rell attacking us.

The quest goes through great pains to make it clear that the being attacking us is what happens when Rell loses control of himself and the Man in the Wall takes him over. When we stole the item that helped keep him calm the being took over. When we obliterated the being (or, rather, forced him to retreat), Rell became himself again.

 

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)HiddenBioHazard said:

Why do we suddenly have hallucinations of ourselves saying "Hey kiddo?" Why now?

Because the being Rell was holding back is now free and has, "infected," us, so to speak.

 

Please take more time to digest the content you're given before you actually give it a critique.

[(PSN)horridhal]

36 minutes ago, (Xbox One)HiddenBioHazard said:

Rell also gets violent throughout the quest which, felt needless until the end. I understand having outbursts and such, but again, why was it needed? Most autistic people are not violent

It was never intended to be a standard for autism.  Rell is a character in a game based on science fiction and, apparently, interaction with said fiction drove him crazy.  He is violent because he was driven crazy, not because he is autistic.

I rarely find it a good idea to try and assign conventional mental medical knowledge to gameplay mechanics or characters within a game.  The two rarely go hand in hand and allowances have to be made for the simple nature of the narrative being told.

Edited July 25, 2017 by (PS4)horridhal

[tarfeef101]

Not everything is some sort of social justice statement. This wasn't some sort of autism awareness campaign. If you stop trying to find some great meaning in everything, you just might enjoy it

[Yargami]

25 minutes ago, (Xbox One)HiddenBioHazard said:

 Why do we suddenly have hallucinations of ourselves saying "Hey kiddo?" Why now? Are we now traumatized, re-traumatized, or suddenly did this "mantle" of Rell make us see them? Obviously the operators are traumatized from their past already, but why are we just now seeing these hallucinations? You can't just suddenly decided, "Okay, now your mental illness is getting worse."

   If I remember correctly, in the end of the War Within there was a brief shot of your operator (or something taking the form of your operator) who referred to you as "Kiddo", so that is probably actually something wrong with us from before Chains of Harrow, although I'm not ruling out it being affected by Rell or the man in the wall. I assume that DE has more plans for that particular point, which means it's probably supposed to not make sense yet.

   Also, as a side note, if I could set my operator to just hang around my ship or sit on the codex table randomly I totally would. It must get awfully dull in the transference chamber (which technically we don't even need anymore) all day.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Yargami

[Kjahla81]

The story is simple. Rell was exposed to elements for a very long time allowing the "Man in the Wall" to take over.  We are tasked to save him and we did. The consquence is that now "we" are faced with the "Man in the Wall". The autistic aspect is just a small part of overall story. 

[Catacomb]

Did i miss the memo that said Chains of harrow was a documentary on autistic people?

[Aeon94]

23 minutes ago, (Xbox One)HiddenBioHazard said:

Something that I think needs to be pointed out first is that this quest has made people feel grateful for the representation of people on the autistic spectrum, but to the vast majority of the people that I have talked to who are on it, do not like the quest. It's a very ableis quest with how it portrays Rell.

1- Rell also gets violent throughout the quest which, felt needless until the end. I understand having outbursts and such, but again, why was it needed? Most autistic people are not violent, especially if they have an outburst/breakdown.They're very vulnerable during this, it doesn't make sense, unless the person has maybe problems controlling their anger during this.  Then again, we know little about what's happening to Rell, the void exposure, and the "man in the wall." That, in the end, it might not have been Rell attacking us. However my point still stands since we don't know, or you have to make your own decision from the information you're given.

The cards were very cool, and interesting, showing us that Rell doesn't understand expressing emotion, and it seems like he's not very empathetic. Which isn't a bad thing, he expresses himself differently, such as saying how he feels so others will know. 

2- Why do we suddenly have hallucinations of ourselves saying "Hey kiddo?" Why now? Are we now traumatized, re-traumatized, or suddenly did this "mantle" of Rell make us see them? Obviously the operators are traumatized from their past already, but why are we just now seeing these hallucinations? You can't just suddenly decided, "Okay, now your mental illness is getting worse."

Also why doesn't our operator talk at all? This is another child, just like us, even if the game keeps trying to push that he's different. I wouldn't sit by, and not speak to him, or try to understand him. With the personality our operators have, which are headstrong and a bit reckless, why wouldn't they try to talk to Rell? Are you telling me, our operators, who went after Tenshin, and the Grineer Queens, wouldn't try to help a fellow Tenno? It just, felt wrong, not to talk.

All in all, I love the creepiness, and trying to make it scary, but they executed this wrong. How they portrayed Rell's autism was ultimately a stereotype. Again, many people have come to relate to Rell, and have loved this quest, but in the end, it just felt like it was using him just to be scary. 

1- He wasn't violent cuz of his autism ( yes he was a little unstable with his feelings ) , it was cuz of torture of Man in the Wall aka Void itself. Our operators slept all this time yet he was under heavy pressure of Void. Imagine how painful it was for him. ( Still no idea about how ppl miss this point entirely )

2- Rell was keeping Void away from us. Remember The War Within's ending and how we acted ? It was just a brief moment that Void talked with us and called us " Kiddo ". Now there is nothing to hold Void back and its freely messing with our minds. Wonder what could happen if it manages to control us.

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)HiddenBioHazard said:

Something that I think needs to be pointed out first is that this quest has made people feel grateful for the representation of people on the autistic spectrum, but to the vast majority of the people that I have talked to who are on it, do not like the quest.

Well, since I'm fairly certain no one you've spoken to, autistic or not, have experienced exposure to the void, or have magickal powers, I simply don't believe it can even compare to what Rell has gone through.

Also, its a game. artistic license is perfectly acceptable.  I don't know how many a "vast majority" is, since if you talked to 3 people and 2 did not like the quest that would be a 'vast majority', but its just your opinion and theirs and has nothing to do with the success or failure of the quest overall.

DE did an excellent job on this quest story line IMO.  I think you are really just reading far too much into comparing Rell with real world autism when they are two completely different entities.

Executed it wrong?  That made me laugh, honestly.  

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

During the card game who was the woman speaking with rell? Margulis?

[Xaero]

9 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

During the card game who was the woman speaking with rell? Margulis?

His mother.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Ksaero said:

His mother.

So pre zairman ten zero incident?

[FireSegment]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

So pre zairman ten zero incident?

kinda yes, but only like few days (or hours) based on the comic. The comic take place almost right after, if not too long after, the last dialog of the mother in the quest

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by FireSegment