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Login rewards, what should be next?

Fallen_Echo

By Fallen_Echo,
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DescX

DescX

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Logging in to get a reward exists to artificially pump player stats. It's not there to help players. If DE is going to take suggestions, they have to make money, increase visibility of the game in some way, be scared into making change, or accidentally scratch a developer's personal itch. Here's my take on fixing login rewards:

1) Guarantee 75% off platinum after X days, or some sort of sliding scale.
I think someone recommended having consecutive days build up a discount, so this definitely isn't a new idea.

2) Dole out consumable buffs instead of materials.
Nothing terribly fancy, just uber-pads that recharge both HP and MP... or increase some attribute temporarily... or whatever. Getting unique stuff from the login system is fine. It's the whole part about having to wait several months that's utterly wrong.

3) Or, don't fix the login system at all. Introduce a monthly subscription that includes multiple ways for paying members to concretely influence randomness.
We're ignoring Warframe's number one problem - money. The game has become an unregulated virtual casino with absolutely no loyalty rewards for sticking around. Nothing retains value because everything is always being replaced by something that's exactly the same, just with a different icon and/or skin. The login rewards were, ostensibly, going to help with this, but they gave us junk that's not worth waiting for.

If DE would just physically rip their accountant(s) out of all meetings until a given feature is ready to be tested, we'd probably see very different game dynamics. Everything that's happened to the game over the past two years (ish) has been tainted by obnoxious forms of monetization. rand() % X is prevalent everywhere specifically to piss off you, the user, to the point where you're willing to pay entirely too much for virtual currency. The game's good enough to get me to pay for it without pissing me off first, so I don't understand why this sort of pervasive strategy was ever necessary.

I would gladly pay DE $15/month, or whatever it takes to cover first world salaries these days, if they would just get rid of all the %$#!ing nonsense random rolls and time delays. I recently tried ESO... and while I don't like the game a lot, I do love the fact that I can just pay them a flat rate to cut out 90% of the BS from their game.

[Edit: Apparently the forum is converting profanity into escaped HTML characters. Forgot to put my kid gloves on before writing. Whoops.]

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Fallen_Echo

Fallen_Echo

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12 minutes ago, DescX said:

Logging in to get a reward exists to artificially pump player stats. It's not there to help players. If DE is going to take suggestions, they have to make money, increase visibility of the game in some way, be scared into making change, or accidentally scratch a developer's personal itch. Here's my take on fixing login rewards:

1) Guarantee 75% off platinum after X days, or some sort of sliding scale.
I think someone recommended having consecutive days build up a discount, so this definitely isn't a new idea.

2) Dole out consumable buffs instead of materials.
Nothing terribly fancy, just uber-pads that recharge both HP and MP... or increase some attribute temporarily... or whatever. Getting unique stuff from the login system is fine. It's the whole part about having to wait several months that's utterly wrong.

3) Or, don't fix the login system at all. Introduce a monthly subscription that includes multiple ways for paying members to concretely influence randomness.
We're ignoring Warframe's number one problem - money. The game has become an unregulated virtual casino with absolutely no loyalty rewards for sticking around. Nothing retains value because everything is always being replaced by something that's exactly the same, just with a different icon and/or skin. The login rewards were, ostensibly, going to help with this, but they gave us junk that's not worth waiting for.

If DE would just physically rip their accountant(s) out of all meetings until a given feature is ready to be tested, we'd probably see very different game dynamics. Everything that's happened to the game over the past two years (ish) has been tainted by obnoxious forms of monetization. rand() % X is prevalent everywhere specifically to piss off you, the user, to the point where you're willing to pay entirely too much for virtual currency. The game's good enough to get me to pay for it without pissing me off first, so I don't understand why this sort of pervasive strategy was ever necessary.

I would gladly pay DE $15/month, or whatever it takes to cover first world salaries these days, if they would just get rid of all the %$#!ing nonsense random rolls and time delays. I recently tried ESO... and while I don't like the game a lot, I do love the fact that I can just pay them a flat rate to cut out 90% of the BS from their game.

[Edit: Apparently the forum is converting profanity into escaped HTML characters. Forgot to put my kid gloves on before writing. Whoops.]

Your idea on fixing the login system is to either give out people useless boosters, plat discounts OR for them to pay 15/month?

First of all this is a Free to Play game, making it pay to play would instantly kill it.

Second even if they would make it pay to play it wouldnt change the RNG aspects of it because this is game is based on rpg style drop systems. I doubt there is any game out there what is pay to play has this many drops and dont have any rng included in it.

From your forum post counter i know that you are new here, because if you would been here for a long time you would know that most plat sink ideas are got turned down by both DE and the playerbase.

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Lyravain

Lyravain

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On 1/8/2017 at 10:27 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

The latest two login rewards we got were the Zenith and the Primed Shred.

While the zenith is just an okay gun (just an opinion) the primed shred is a nice mod for the slow chargerate or slow firerate weapons we have.

What should be the next?

Another sundial weapon? Perhaps a shotgun or a launcher?

Or a new primed mod? Primed firestorm, Primed vacuum or Primed equilbrium?

 

What do you guys want to see next?

Having done a quick skim on most replies, I guess I'll be the one to go against the current of most people and request another weapon.

I know, I know it's "unfair" to give something to someone who's logged in for 2 years, that someone else can't get. But I have to say; is it REALLY? Just logging in for 700 days takes commitement and that should be rewarded. Someone who's played the game for 700 days has devoted a lot of time, effort and likely as not money (even if you just trade for plat, you're still moving money around, which necessitates more people to buy plat, which benefits DE). All those SHOULD be rewarded.

So I say this; give us more weapons. Maybe not 'sundial', maybe something inspired by the moon? Hopefully, following the footsteps of the sundial weapons, with alternate tricks to them. They wouldn't even be 'exclusive event' items (like, say, Braton and Lato Vandal, anyone remember those? How many actually HAVE them? That's what I thought) as everyone could conceivably get them, IF they log in. So, if they put in the minimum modicum of effort to spend all of 30 seconds of their lives to log in every day, they would get it guaranteed. So it's NOT a big deal.

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iPlayPwnsGames

iPlayPwnsGames

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On 8/1/2017 at 3:39 AM, simonseang said:

primed streamline...

If something as build-breaking as primed streamline is introduced at 700 days and has no other way to obtain it, it will just further the proof that the login system is completely #*($%%@.

its at 600 days right now. I am beginning to accept that it won't even be changed, but powercreep items shouldn't pass the 2 year mark.

On 8/1/2017 at 3:45 AM, redeyedtreefrog said:

honestly, at this point I don't think there should be any more weapons locked behind login timewalls. The three we have right now are OK, mainly because the zenith isn't exactly the most overpowered weapon.

But look at zenistar.

Sure, it's only a 300 day login reward, but its overpowered as all hell, encourages AFK behavior, interferes with allied sightlines... but let's just stick with the fact that its powerful for now. This is at 300 days, mind you.

The zenith is at 500...

the next will be at 700...

Eventually, if DE keeps coming out with weapons locked like these, one will be a powerful weapon. And it will be outrageously hard to get.

Cool it with the weapons. Make a syandana, sigil, sekhara etc. Something cool to work towards, but nothing that will leave new players in the dust powerwise.

This is the exact reason the login system is S#&$.

On 8/1/2017 at 3:35 PM, MystMan said:

Is 2 years really that long?  And does the long wait really apply to only the login rewards?   Nope.

There are already so many time-exclusive content. I see nobody complain about them.

If you are reading this and you're a regular WF player, if you missed any of the following, you have been waiting quite a long time. Clearly you are a person with patience since for none of the following have I seen people complain about not having them like the login rewards:

  • Furax Wraith - was available only once.  April 2016.   More than a year ago.  Those who missed it are still waiting for a chance to get it.
  • Snipetron - was released only twice. The last time was december 2015. A year and half and still people are waiting for a chance to get it.
  • Machete - had a limited short period where we could buy its blueprint in 2014. Also an Tactical Alert reward in June 2017.  Missed it?  You have been waiting for a REALLY long time.
  • Imperator Vandal - awarded in january 2015 for Operation Eyes of Blight.  Had you missed that, GOOD LUCK getting all the parts from RNG during the Fomorian Sabotage events, which takes several months to refill the event meter. The parts were made tradeable in May last year but demand is higher than the supply due to the horrible RNG so there will be people who simply will not get this gun anytime soon.
  • Gorgon Wraith - event reward in March 2014 and August 2015. Now you have to wait for Razorback Armada event meter to slowly fill back up for months for a chance to get all parts. See Imperator Vandal above, same deal applies here too.
  • Supra Vandal - fairly new. 3 months old. Who knows how many more months/years those who missed it must wait for a chance to get it.
  • Boar - was removed from the market October 2013. (I missed my chance to get it). Re-introduced as a drop October 2015. We waited 2 years to own this gun. Nobody was complaining that entire time.
  • Dex anniversary weapons. You get a limited time window to get them. Miss them because "reasons" wait another year. Or years if you're so unlucky that you keep missing them. This happens easily to people who take long breaks from the game at the wrong time.
  • Ba'ro has LOTS of exclusive MR content and mods. Miss one visit and wait a long time for it to return. Or pay other players through the nose for the items.

 

Look at that list.  Login rewards are hardly as time-exclusive as people make it out to be. At least you are GUARANTEED to get them because they come to you by reducing a specific number of visits to the game. You can't possibly miss them unlike everything above that required you to be online at very specific dates.
At least several event exclusive weapons have made a return as invasion rewards in parts. Before they implemented this change (when nobody was complaining), there was a big gap of time as well when people who didn't have them were waiting for a chance to own these weapons.

2 years....meh. Time flies by quite fast.

People ARE complaining about the furax wraith, just not in forums because they know it will be brought back just like any other event weapon. It isn't high on their priorities because they only want it for mastery.

Snipetron same thing

Machete recently was put into the market so it won't be complained about for a long time, and even when it is, it is the same thing as furax or snipetron, just mastery.

Imperator vandal, is quite easy to get when a fomorian comes around, what with the inability to annihilate it within 3 hours like the last razorback.

Gorgon wraith had the bug with jackal --- costs 20p for a set. Also same as imperator vandal, and is still just mastery.

Supra vandal is brand new, and for the same reason as furax wraith (apart from mastery because I hear its a good weapon) it will be brought back eventually.

Boar is just mastery- and it was released and half the playerbase never knew it existed because it got removed in october 2013, and the players that did, didn't care.

Dex anniversary weapons are just mastery (except the sybaris) and have counterparts in game that are the same weapon just worse a little bit.

Don't even list baro, all of his content is accessible and if you miss it, you can wait till the next tennocon, or just buy it from players no hassle.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

People want the zenistar, and the zenith for mastery, and the fact that they are insanely cool weapons with awesome gimmicks that make them desired. (not the mention fashion framers want zenistar for big sword)

The login reward weapons hold an appeal to players that event weapons simply don't. They. Are. Cool. They are new experiences to players that by the time they actually want the weapon, the game is becoming stale (around 80-150 days logged).

Having Primed mods locked behind logic rewards is acceptable, as long as it isn't pushed too far. Having Primed fury behind 200 days is pushing it, but is still acceptable because its only 200 days for a very good mod, but putting something as good as primed streamline, or anything as powerful as it, behind 2+ years of logging in is preposterous.

Get off your high horse, and just simply admit the system has major flaws.

 

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Fallen_Echo

Fallen_Echo

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52 minutes ago, iPlayPwnsGames said:

 

Get off your high horse, and just simply admit the system has major flaws.

 

I think im gonna stay on this horse because honestly i dont see any problems with this system. Every player has to wait for the exact same amount of time to get their stuff, i wouldnt have any problems with this system even if they would introduce that the day 3000 reward would be a pack of mods consisting primed intensify, primed reach, primed streamline and primed serration.

This is the login reward aimed at the most loyal and dedicated players and as the time increased the rewards should become better and better.

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iPlayPwnsGames

iPlayPwnsGames

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3 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I think im gonna stay on this horse because honestly i dont see any problems with this system. Every player has to wait for the exact same amount of time to get their stuff, i wouldnt have any problems with this system even if they would introduce that the day 3000 reward would be a pack of mods consisting primed intensify, primed reach, primed streamline and primed serration.

This is the login reward aimed at the most loyal and dedicated players and as the time increased the rewards should become better and better.

The fact that you even think that any login system should extend all the way to 3000 days (~8.2 years) shows you have a major deficiency, and should no long be apart of this argument. 

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MystMan

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1 hour ago, iPlayPwnsGames said:

The fact that you even think that any login system should extend all the way to 3000 days (~8.2 years) shows you have a major deficiency, and should no long be apart of this argument. 

and you should be a part of it?  You're showing a deficiency in remaining civil. People will be more likely to read what you have to say and take you seriously without all the impulsive condescending attitude.

2 hours ago, iPlayPwnsGames said:

People want the zenistar, and the zenith for mastery, and the fact that they are insanely cool weapons with awesome gimmicks that make them desired. (not the mention fashion framers want zenistar for big sword)

The login reward weapons hold an appeal to players that event weapons simply don't. They. Are. Cool. They are new experiences to players that by the time they actually want the weapon, the game is becoming stale (around 80-150 days logged).

"Cool"...... very VERY subjective reasoning.  They are certainly not game-breaking powerful. At all.
You dismissed most of my list as "just mastery".  Guess what, the login weapons are just that as well. Plenty of other weapons outshine them, coolness and all. And the Zenistar's disc attack is annoying (and lazy), you can't see squat with that thing active unless you pick black energy color, which sadly I see nobody use.
It's not about those weapons being "cool" or "so bad that nobody cares"; it's about people having to be patient for a long time to get them.

And if it wasn't "cool", you bet people would be complaining that a non-powerful, non-cool weapon (or a cosmetic) is a very underwhelming reward for something that requires so much dedicated playtime.

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Lyravain

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8 hours ago, Fiftycentis said:

@Lyravain imo the main problem is:

The weapon we get is op (a bit like zenistar): it feels bad that people have to wait 700 days to get it

The weapon sucks: you wait 700 days for a mastery fodder

Frankly, I don't see the issue with a so-called 'OP' weapon. Before we get the pitchforks, let me explain; it's seven HUNDRED days. That's a LONG time to be playing the game, a LONG time getting on, every day, meeting with friends, farming resources, killing Corpus and purging Infestation. Having played for so long, it would stand to reason to have something 'special', something quote-unquote 'no one else has'. Yes, I understand how some people might be put off by some OP weapon being available to the veterans but... isn't that what ALWAYS happens? I have mods that turn almost any melee weapon into a spinning whirlwind of destruction (Maiming strike) or every primary into crit-spamming death-machines (Argon Scope). Would you argue that they are 'OP'? Yes, they are. But no one is complaining (too much) despite them being available only for a short time during a grand total of two times. Because people KNOW that they will get them eventually. Similarly with a weapon from Daily Tribute; stick with the game, you will get it.

On the other hand, I care more about alternative modes to weapons than sheer stopping power, really. So long as it isn't a peashooter (i.e. at LEAST Braton Prime level of killing power) I care more about special gimmicks it has, than the dps counter going high.

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iPlayPwnsGames

iPlayPwnsGames

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10 minutes ago, Lyravain said:

Frankly, I don't see the issue with a so-called 'OP' weapon. Before we get the pitchforks, let me explain; it's seven HUNDRED days. That's a LONG time to be playing the game, a LONG time getting on, every day, meeting with friends, farming resources, killing Corpus and purging Infestation. Having played for so long, it would stand to reason to have something 'special', something quote-unquote 'no one else has'. Yes, I understand how some people might be put off by some OP weapon being available to the veterans but... isn't that what ALWAYS happens? I have mods that turn almost any melee weapon into a spinning whirlwind of destruction (Maiming strike) or every primary into crit-spamming death-machines (Argon Scope). Would you argue that they are 'OP'? Yes, they are. But no one is complaining (too much) despite them being available only for a short time during a grand total of two times. Because people KNOW that they will get them eventually. Similarly with a weapon from Daily Tribute; stick with the game, you will get it.

On the other hand, I care more about alternative modes to weapons than sheer stopping power, really. So long as it isn't a peashooter (i.e. at LEAST Braton Prime level of killing power) I care more about special gimmicks it has, than the dps counter going high.

The thing is though, is that you can buy maiming strike or argon scope pretty cheap.... You can't buy zenistar. And the only OP weapon in logins atm IS zenistar and it being at 300 days is mildly acceptable, but if something more op then zenistar is at 700 days it would be stupid. Veterans will always have edge over newer players, but having something that takes 2 years to get that is more powerful than anything a new player can get is discouraging.

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Lyravain

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6 minutes ago, iPlayPwnsGames said:

The thing is though, is that you can buy maiming strike or argon scope pretty cheap.... You can't buy zenistar. And the only OP weapon in logins atm IS zenistar and it being at 300 days is mildly acceptable, but if something more op then zenistar is at 700 days it would be stupid. Veterans will always have edge over newer players, but having something that takes 2 years to get that is more powerful than anything a new player can get is discouraging.

Eh, I was just giving an example. There are obvious differences, but even without training, people wouldn't have been too angry at missing the acolytes the first time because we knew, from the get-go, we'd see them again. Besides, Vets always have an edge -I think that's what makes them tryhard so much :P

As I stated though; I don't care about the sheer power levels of a weapon, I care about it having a cool new 'thing'. If it has enough stopping power to outdps a Braton P (of course, my Braton P has about 6 forma and can tackle most Sorties with ease, but hey, that's just my OCD forma-ing everything) then I don't really care about WHAT that stopping power is. Mostly because, unless you go 1-hour-survival-on-Axi... it hardly really matters.

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iPlayPwnsGames

iPlayPwnsGames

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1 minute ago, Lyravain said:

Eh, I was just giving an example. There are obvious differences, but even without training, people wouldn't have been too angry at missing the acolytes the first time because we knew, from the get-go, we'd see them again. Besides, Vets always have an edge -I think that's what makes them tryhard so much :P

As I stated though; I don't care about the sheer power levels of a weapon, I care about it having a cool new 'thing'. If it has enough stopping power to outdps a Braton P (of course, my Braton P has about 6 forma and can tackle most Sorties with ease, but hey, that's just my OCD forma-ing everything) then I don't really care about WHAT that stopping power is. Mostly because, unless you go 1-hour-survival-on-Axi... it hardly really matters.

The thing is there are a lot of people that want the log in weapons not because they are op, but BECAUSE they have cool gimmicks that are unique from the entire game, and expecting people to play for 2+ years daily without getting burnt out and going and playing other games and logging in daily to get the weapons is wrong.

The mods are a whole different story, I like where they went with Primed shred and vigor being higher than fury, but if they release something more mandatory than shred or vigor, it will start to show a problem.

YES I fully agree people should be rewarded for playing this game with dedication, but there are other ways to go about either A: measuring the dedication, or b: rewarding that dedication.

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Fallen_Echo

Fallen_Echo

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16 hours ago, iPlayPwnsGames said:

The fact that you even think that any login system should extend all the way to 3000 days (~8.2 years) shows you have a major deficiency, and should no long be apart of this argument. 

And what about you? You did not managed to contribute to this conversation with anything other than "this weapon is cool therefore it shouldnt be a login reward'. Im a patient player to me these rewards mean that my dedication will get rewarded.

We already have lots of gears what we have to wait insane amount and honestly theres no problem with it. You just dismissed @MystMan 's list on all the weapons and stuff we have to wait years to get them, there are weapons what dont even have plans on becoming avaible again like the ether daggers but i dont see people leaving because they cant get it. You know why?

Because it doesnt matter, those who want it will wait patiently till their time comes.

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