[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Hydroid is dope now. Always liked him, but now just crazy powerful.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

Tidal Surge should have the same repelling side effect that chilling globe has...pushing them away from the wave.

I think that's the easiest solution.

[Kevrex97]

I think there needs a better synergy with Tentacle Swarm and the rest of his abilities because as of right now Hydroid sits as being the Mobile Battle Puddle with undertow being buffed to high hell and the rest of abilities still sitting where they were before the rework. Some ideas i came up with:

Tempest Barrage could deal more damage if it hits a target that is latched on a tentacle. Reason for this is because atm TB still does low dmg and heavily relies on Corroding Barrage to be alot more useful for other then knockdown CC.

Tidal Surge would be able to be move around the tentacle swarm only when the Kraken is still showing. plz DE make the aesthetic somewhat useful.

Lastly Undertow, while near tentacles and  in undertow the tentacles would throw what ever enemy that they have into the undertow that way undertow can keep its changes and be alot more interesting with with being able to throw alot more enemies into the trap

Edited September 16, 2017 by Kanlor

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

not sure if this was already said (80 pages... wow)

should undertow have the option of being targeted? So you point at an area place an undertow there for X energy that lasts for say, 10 seconds?
Then, if you so desire, you can dive in (or just cast it at your own feet initially) upon which it switches to its current behavior?

it would give the user the option to use it defensively to afford protection to themselves, or to use it offensively and still be able to participate actively in the fight instead of just sitting there.

[(PSN)marshb863]

Good work on Hydroid! He's now my go to frame for most every mission now. Awesome synergy and playstyle! 

I've never noticed this before all the synergy but if I hold the powers button and I try to use a power and then use a second but different power, I only end up canceling the first power. To get things to work properly I have to first release and cycle the power button before applying the second power. In this example I'm using my Hydroid Prime and his first and third powers on a PS4 Controller.  It seems to happen randomly tho or I'm not paying enough attention lol.

[Crousere]

I really like the new Hydroid, but there really should be a better way to see casting/charging of his 1 and 4 abilities, especially while being puddle. Another thing is his passive which seems useless. Other than that, I really like it.

[(PSN)Radehx]

He's fun to play now, especially once you realise you shouldn't sit in the puddle 100% of the time. 

I'm one of the few who seem to like his passive too. Often I drop my 4 to block some entrance and then leave to fight somewhere else. Being able to drop extra squids with slam attacks while keeping the squid garden up is great for extra loot.

[AzoreanEve]

Why is his charge mechanic not mentioned ingame?

How would someone that isn't keeping track of the reworks know that you can charge his 1 and 4? Almost none of the other frames' abilities have an optional charge mechanic to them, no one is going to guess you can charge these abilities. And why does it not say what the charging does? What do I get from it? More range and damage? Then why isn't it ingame??

[Miztah_Monstar]

Loving the new Hydroid a month later and my only suggestions are:

Make Tempest Barrage a toggle similar to Ember's World on Fire to accommodate for it being RNG based and simply water vs fire.

And can Kraken pleaseeeeee actually eat enemies. Then again kraken needs a better model overall when you summon it on certain things (s)he is just a wet chicken nugget with flailing arms that don't make sense as to why they are so far from the body. The new texture to them feels like it should be across both vanilla and prime Hydroid and kraken armor could be a prime detail.

A new passive - It doesn't have much purpose compared to the rest of his kit. One tentacle (that isn't guaranteed) isn't going to do much CC or damage while juggling his other abilities that could use a boost to duration.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by DeadlyBloom98
Forgot passive

[(PSN)crashtester17]

some changes that could be nice. 

make tidal surge a toggle where you surf your wave and either have the ability to shoot while on it.

allow for the ability to go in and out of puddle. going in it by crouching, sliding, or slam attacking it makes your other powers stronger but the puddle is reduced to it's current range. can leave the puddle by jumping out of it and it's range is increased to compensate for it's loss in mobility. powers could function the same as they do now inside puddle.

make his tentacle swarm grab enemies and flail them around like before without the slow motion thing that looks kinda derpy. Change the tentacles behavior to where they will grab an enemy and slab them around 3 or 4 times. after the fourth slap the tentacle will start constricting the enemy still doing as much damage as before but it will hold them in place. this could be like a highlighter for hydroid or other teammates that shows which enemies need extra attention to die.

[Berzerkir]

Okay, joke's been going on long enough. When should we expect an ACTUAL rework? Cause a rework would have meant puddle was removed, not given synergies.

[(PSN)Radehx]

4 hours ago, Berzerkir said:

Okay, joke's been going on long enough. When should we expect an ACTUAL rework? Cause a rework would have meant puddle was removed, not given synergies.

The only change puddle needs is letting us drag enemies along. It's great damage mitigation and you don't have to sit in it all the time. The synergies (especially with mods) do great damage.

[(XBOX)DomTheKilleur]

I agree with what fellow Tenno say about Undertow + Tidal Surge. I'd love it when I cast Tidal Surge while in Undertow that the enemie's in the puddle follow instead of being left behind. Outside of that, there wasn't alot of male frame's I liked beside Volt, but now I can say Hydroid is my second favorite. Overall I really like the added synergy witch make's him feel more fun and stronger.

Good job DE.

 

[GourangaPL]

i have hydroid prime and i need to change his tentacles' so they look like regular hydroid's, because that prime tentacle skin suck soooo much, i cannot enjoy playing hydroid prime while the most important ability looks so bad, how to change it?

[Borg1611]

It's already likely been said dozens of times in these 80 pages, but since I just finally got hydroid prime and tried out the re-work, I'd just like to say that Undertow not dragging enemies with it as you move, especially with tidal surge is just a massive disappointment and huge missed opportunity. It's like the re-work was ALMOST good, but just missed the mark. 

If we could keep the enemies in the puddle as we move, his kit would actually be useful and he'd potentially be a contender for being the most useful frame at grouping enemies up, but instead you're just this tiny puddle with a very limited base range pull. The mobility of the puddle is made mostly irrelevant by our inability to keep enemies with us when we move.

I also feel like some of his augments should be baseline effects. He's one of the few frames where pretty much all of his augments are useful in some way, but you obviously do not have room for them with only 8 mod slots. I'd really like to see a separate augment page where we can use one augment per ability with multiple augments available per ability, but that likely isn't going to happen anytime soon, if ever, so it's really annoying to have actually useful effects for his abilities, but have them all locked away behind augments that it's difficult to justify using over other mods. You can fit one or two, but even that is kind of a painful sacrifice in other stats. His 1 is fairly lackluster and not a reliable CC, but with the augment it's a useful alternative to status weapons or 4 man groups with CP. With so many other ways to remove armor, using up one of 8 mod slots for another way is just kind of blah. Having healing on his 3 is useful in a game with limited access to healing effects, but again, when you have only 8 mod slots and have things like pilfering swarm to consider on top of everything else, it's hard to justify making room for this. His tidal surge augment is also potentially useful, but not so much so that you can give up stats or one of his other more useful augments for it. 

[Ernestasx]

Well, i am a bit disappointed by this rework because it made him even more energy hungry, and that sucks. But Hydroid can easily be fixed with a few simple changes:

* Let his 1's uncharged version cost half the energy and only the should cost 25, not freaking 50.

* His 2 is great, nothing about it.

* His 3 should drag people with it like his 2, it would be so amazing and it's a really requested feature. Also, Tidal Surge MUST cost half the energy while used in his 3 because the synergy is already ruined because the puddle doesn't collect people  and you won't push them out with your 2. Or leave the cost and make the puddle collect enemies in 1 place and use his 2 to push them out while moving, like it does alone.

* His ult's charging speed should be faster by like 0.2 seconds. It is too clunky.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Ernestasx

[(PSN)Radehx]

2 hours ago, Ernestasx said:

Well, i am a bit disappointed by this rework because it made him even more energy hungry, and that sucks. But Hydroid can easily be fixed with a few simple changes...

* His 3 should drag people with it like his 2, it would be so amazing and it's a really requested feature.

This is the key change I want! 

As for being energy hungry, it's a non-issue if you fit Pilfering Swarm and treat it like an "energy" mod providing you with energy orbs rather than a farming tool. I run 3 of his augments including Pilfering Swarm and as long as I have enough energy to drop the squid garden on top of a few enemies I can easily keep energy at acceptable levels. You don't really have to spam his abilities all the time.

[KBgamer]

As it stands Hydroid brings nothing to the table that other frames can't do much better.

Suggestion:

Make him more of a grouping CC frame, one that offers great CC at the cost of not being able to actively do damage while doing so.  Make his 2 a pull in effect that yanks enemies towards you once.  Then change his 3 to stun enemies (without making them untargetable).

This would make him a more useful CC frame, as he is currently lacking in damage, utility, CC, and his only way to be especially tanky is to do nearly nothing while slowly hemorrhaging energy.

Edited October 27, 2017 by KBgamer

[(PSN)Radehx]

5 hours ago, KBgamer said:

As it stands Hydroid brings nothing to the table that other frames can't do much better.

 

You need to look at the whole package of abilities, not just compare individual abilities.

He can strip armor, has 4 CC abilities, an invulnerability state, healing, extra loot AND amazing (!!) scaling damage all in one package. Few frames combine all that in one single package.

PS: To claim Hydroid lacks damage is the joke of the century...he's got one of the best scaling damage abilities in game ;)

[KBgamer]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

You need to look at the whole package of abilities, not just compare individual abilities.

He can strip armor, has 4 CC abilities, an invulnerability state, healing, extra loot AND amazing (!!) scaling damage all in one package. Few frames combine all that in one single package.

PS: To claim Hydroid lacks damage is the joke of the century...he's got one of the best scaling damage abilities in game ;)

He can apply corrosive (which required a mod slot), something any status gun can do while also doing damage, all of his cc is a joke, his invulnerability state forces him to be nearly useless for the duration, his healing is garbage(which requires a mod slot), extra loot from units under the effect of his 4(which requires a mod slot), vs Necro which just gives extra loot, and wtf damage are you taking about?  Even if you get max strength you cant make those abilities useful, his 1 is too random and immobile, his 3 can be beat by most weapons, and his 4 does little dmg and makes the targets harder to shoot

Edited October 27, 2017 by KBgamer

[(PSN)Radehx]

1 hour ago, KBgamer said:

He can apply corrosive (which required a mod slot), something any status gun can do while also doing damage, all of his cc is a joke, his invulnerability state forces him to be nearly useless for the duration, his healing is garbage(which requires a mod slot), extra loot from units under the effect of his 4(which requires a mod slot), vs Necro which just gives extra loot, and wtf damage are you taking about?  Even if you get max strength you cant make those abilities useful, his 1 is too random and immobile, his 3 can be beat by most weapons, and his 4 does little dmg and makes the targets harder to shoot

His 3 still kills thanks to scaling when the vast majority of weapons are dropping off. 

And again, you are missing the point. You compare his looting to Nekros...and yeah, Nekros can be the better farmer, but he has no scaling damage and less CC. Equinox can do more damage, but can't be invulnerable or get extra loot. Nidus tanks better, but does worse damage. 

Look at the whole package instead of comparing individual abilities on their own.

Calling puddle useless when it kills high level mods in seconds is beyond hilarious...you don't even need a lot of strength to do that. His 4 also isn't meant to be a huge damage dealer...it buys you time through CC and provides you with loot/energy. 

Healing is fine given he can be invulnerable whenever he wants and things get too much.

Let me guess, you sat in the puddle most of the time ;)

[KBgamer]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

His 3 still kills thanks to scaling when the vast majority of weapons are dropping off. 

And again, you are missing the point. You compare his looting to Nekros...and yeah, Nekros can be the better farmer, but he has no scaling damage and less CC. Equinox can do more damage, but can't be invulnerable or get extra loot. Nidus tanks better, but does worse damage. 

Look at the whole package instead of comparing individual abilities on their own.

Calling puddle useless when it kills high level mods in seconds is beyond hilarious...you don't even need a lot of strength to do that. His 4 also isn't meant to be a huge damage dealer...it buys you time through CC and provides you with loot/energy. 

Healing is fine given he can be invulnerable whenever he wants and things get too much.

Let me guess, you sat in the puddle most of the time ;)

Nidus doing less damage? 40k spamable 1 vs 40k on a centered location with high cost, Necro having no cc? 40 second fears and creaking damage soaking decoys isn't cc? His 3 at MAX str does >100 dmg plus 7% of their Hp (not a lot of dmg) his healing is slower than the hp dropables, so any frame can do it better than him, this so called scaling you are taking about, is in the numbers not practice.  But based on what you think is a lot of damage you clearly don't do end tier content.  Also being sub-par at everything is much worst than being great at one or two things.

[(XBOX)Nex the Slayer]

I... didn't see this topic at the top of the first page for abilities. Now I feel bad for making my own separate topic. In any case, I'll just repost that very lengthy essay here instead.

 

My history with Hydroid is the same as everyone else's, I'm sure, so I'll keep it brief:

I was excited when I got Hydroid, but was told he was trash. At the time, my MR was too low and mods were lacking to make him viable. Upon Hydroid Prime coming out, I was super excited about the changes, but was ultimately underwhelmed by how little actually changed (and this is at MR 20, with most end-game mods owned).

The most disappointing part of the rework was the forced synergy. I get the reasons for it, but it didn't seem to make the most sense. Here, I'll point out those things, and some tweaks and ideas that I feel have a little more utility than the current synergy.

 

Tempest Barrage:

• This ability is perfect the way it is. It can be cast over unrestricted range, can be charged for more damage and duration, and has no limit on number of instances that can be up. It's almost too broken. Excels at CC and is best used on open maps, like for Interception on Ceres. For high level missions, this ability is excellent at knocking down enemies for quick melee finishers. Extremely effective with Zenurik, as the charge time for more power/duration allows you to regain the energy you lost from the last cast before casting again.
• The duration is just low enough to keep it from being too ridiculous. For longer duration CC, Hydroid must use Tentacle Swarm. I have personal issues with Tentacle Swarm, but those reasons are mostly preference and are covered further down.
• I have not tested the Augment, but from what I understand, it does Corrosive Procs but not Corrosive damage. I'm unsure as to how good this is, although I've heard it's useless.

Tempest Barrage (Proposed Changes)

1. The only thing I really want to change is the way the synergy with Undertow works. Currently, the only synergy between the two abilities is the fact that Tempest Barrage can damage enemies inside of Undertow. An interesting mechanic I only found out about recently is that any damage shot into Undertow is halved and distributed evenly amongst all the enemies currently trapped in it.
2. ABILITY SYNERGY - UNDERTOW: When cast while in Undertow, ALL water missiles will focus ONLY on the Undertow puddle, continuously doing damage to enemies inside for the whole duration. Along with the proposed change to Tidal Surge/Undertow Synergy, high damage can be done to a large amount of enemies very quickly, at the cost of a lot of energy.

 

Tidal Surge:

• Depending on the purpose of your Hydroid, this ability can be useful or useless. On large open maps, or maps with long hallways, this ability lets you zoom across the map at high speeds with a high enough duration, ragdolling everything in your path. This happens to be the only use, though. Since the ability is limited in it's left-to-right range, it can only really be used effectively in one direction, if enemies are clumped together. Enemies will not always do this, however, and even if they do, Tempest Barrage is much better at CC.
• The problems I have with this ability is it's limited utility and lack of 3D mobility. Tidal Surge is restricted to only ground movement, which seems silly in a game with as much emphasis on movement as Warframe.
• Finally, the sillyness of a one-directional, ground-restricted ability is even more obvious when you look at the augment. Tidal Impunity removes status and grants status immunity, but allies have to be hit by the wave for it to happen. Since it's incredibly difficult to hit multiple team members with a one-directional ground-restricted ability in the middle of a mission when it's most useful, like defense, this augment falls flat on it's face.

Tidal Surge (Proposed Changes):

1. In the interest of high mobility and utility, I think it'd be cool to have Tidal Surge work like bullet jumping. Aiming in an upwards direction will allow Tidal Surge to travel in that direction for the one second designated by the ability, with the speed affected by duration, like the ability already does while traveling horizontally.
2. Using while looking forward will still allow Tidal Surge to act as normal. When used at an upwards angle, though, the Tidal Surge gets larger in size vertically. After the animation ends, the much larger Tidal Surge falls straight down, crashing on enemies below. The larger size would be affected by the angle used and the Hydroid's duration (as it affects the total distance travelled), and the width of the wave would be determined by range. This will not affect the strength of the ability.
3. For example: Hydroid uses his Tidal Surge with max duration while underneath the cargo crate on Akkad, aimed at the top middle of the room's opposite side. Hydroid travels at a near 45 Degree angle, drawing a "curtain" of water across the room. When the ability ends, that "curtain" of water crashes to the ground, doing damage to all enemies underneath and knocking them off their feet. This mechanic would also work if Tidal surge is horizontal, but over open space (like from a high position).
4. AUGMENT - This change would synergize well with the Tidal Impunity augment, since any allies underneath the "curtain" could gain the status immunity buff. This would give the ability much more utility and creativity.
5. ABILITY SYNERGY - UNDERTOW: When undertow is activated during Tidal Surge, the extended "curtain" drops in place after it's one second duration, and wherever it drops is the initial range of Undertow. Hydroid's position on the map shifts from the endpoint of TSU to the center of the "curtain". Undertow then rapidly contracts, pulling all enemies under Tidal Surge's "curtain" into the normal range of Undertow, like a sink drain! If too many enemies get pulled into a small Undertow area, extras are left in a short duration ragdolled state just outside the puddle. This synergy can be heavily energy penalized to prevent spamming.

 

Undertow:

• This ability... is terrible, in my opinion. The forced synergy we currently have for it doesn't make any more useful or desirable. It's slow moving, it does very low damage, and you'll often run out of energy before an enemy inside drowns. Not to mention that enemies with auras like Leech Eximus units and Ancients can still use those auras while drowning, which can be a detriment to you and your team, since you can't see the enemies that are drowning and take precautions for it.
• This ability needs more control over the enemies inside of it. An idea I feel is pretty interesting is listed below to deal with this.
• The Augment for this ability is Curative Undertow. The heals are nice, and particularly effective with higher power strength. Unfortunately, it's incredibly inconvenient that the "aura" that shows that your puddle can heal teammates is so difficult to see. I run around behind teammates, trying to heal them, but since it's difficult to see and because the game is so movement oriented, I often get ignored, dodged, jumped away from, or told to stop being annoying until they notice that they're being healed.
• One nice thing that is helpful about this ability is the invulnerability. If you're quick enough to use it as a panic button, you can avoid massive damage from enemies from like Juggernaut and Phorid, or avoid annoying abilities like the Arson and Caustic Eximus blast.

Undertow (Proposed Changes):

1. Obviously, better visibility for the augment. I can't be an effective support for my team if they don't know I'm trying to support them. Perhaps extend the visual effects of the heal aura by a few meters vertically?
2. The two Synergy changes that have already been listed above would change the ability for the better, in my opinion, in addition to this last one:
3. ABILITY SYNERGY - TIDAL SURGE: As opposed to the synergy of using Tidal Surge then Undertow, there can be a separate synergy for using it in the opposite order. When casting Tidal Surge from Undertow, a strong wave propagates outwards from the center to twice the puddle's normal range, ragdolling enemies inside the puddle outwards 20-30m, and causing knockdowns (but no ragdolling) on enemies nearby. Hydroid does not move during this process, and the ability has extremely low damage. This can be used to save a teammate swarmed by enemies, clear an objective, or get rid of that pesky Leech Eximus you ate on accident. This can also work well with both Abilities' Augments, allowing the wave to do one tick of Curative augment healing and activate the Impunity augment on allies within it's wave radius.
4. Alternatively, the synergy mentioned above can be a "hold" ability, much like Inaros' fourth ability. Tapping the Undertow ability toggles it, while holding it while active initiates the radial wave. This would mean the wave only activates the Curative Undertow, and not the Tidal Impunity.

 

Tentacle Swarm:

• I have very few problems with this ability, but they're mostly preferential. I could complain that the tentacles wave enemies above your head, out of melee reach, but this could just be geared towards people who stick to primary and secondary weapons. I could complain that Tempest Barrage is better at CC, but to be honest, Tentacle Swarm does good damage for a much longer duration, which makes sense for a fourth ability.
• Casting from Undertow centers the tentacles on the puddle, which I think is supposed to help with the enemies you eat on accident. This ends up not being too helpful if your teammates aren't paying attention to the Leeches waving above their heads. The charged extra damage and tentacles is a cheesy tie in for Undertow, but I think it ended up actually being really effective.
• The augment is also arguably the best, and I have no issues with it.

 

So, in conclusion:

1. Modified Hydroid ability parameters can increase effectiveness.
2. New Hydroid synergies may not be easy to add, but would be creative and useful.
3. As a water based Warframe, It's be interesting if Hydroid's abilities were more focused around knockdowns
4. The augments can be more effective with more tweaks.
5. The changes presented here are more geared towards large areas, and this article was inspired by the PoEidolon update to come to consoles soon.

 

Sorry if this felt lazy towards the end. It's late, and I've spent several hours writing this. I didn't plan on writing all this, but as I was writing I had new ideas (like that sink drain thing). Let me know what you all think. I'm going to sleep.

ZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzzz

[Pyradus]

I think Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm could use some further tweaking.

I would like it if:

- Tentacle swarm does not send enemies 100s meters into the air. It was amusing the first time.

- Tentacles only grab and suspend enemies in midair while squeezing them for damage. It is annoying to try to shoot them while they are being slammed around. 

[Pyradus]

More suggestions:

Tempest Barrage - Refreshes the duration of your Tentacle Swarm when you cast it at it.

Tidal Surge and Undertow - Just make these both the same ability. Stand still and be a puddle, move and be a wave.

Edited November 5, 2017 by CapnToaster