[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[TacticalDragon]

Please remove the undertow ability, it's completely useless, or have the damage scale 10x faster so you can actually kill enemies instead of just keeping them away from your squadmates. Make tempest barrage more directed at enemies and slightly less random, give tentacle swarm less range and more tentacles. Then I will buy the primed access.

[ThiagoSampaio]

I see a lot of people complaining about the way the Tentacle Swarm works inside Undertow. Please do not change this, it's a great way to keep your tentacles concentrated in one spot

[Rakosta_Kai]

Hydroid feature:

Chosen energy Pallet color adds elemental properties to Hydroid's abilities similar to Chroma.

Tempest Barrage: Barrage currently lands in an area. Let the targets affected by direct hits receive the knockdowns and additional damage like now. Add ground based damage and effects from elemental color to the entire area of the barrage and all enemies in it.

Barrage changed this way turns the current desired function of Barrage into a perk but also gives a reliable attack to any in the area if not flying. 

 

[Sigma-118]

I really like the idea behind these changes of making Undertow the "core" of his kit and having all his abilities synergies with it. Really nice work on that, but heres the thing:

While these changes are IMO pretty good (minus the apparent nerfs) I really do believe that the true potential of this kit is lost in Hydroids lack of mobility while in Undertow. I mean I know that you can use Tidal Surge while in it but that ...... well to be quite frank I dont think its enough and it drains far to much energy in the end. My suggestion is to let Hydroid move with normal movement speed while in puddle-form (not sprinting, just the normal running/jogging) and perhaps to either have Tidal surge be cheaper while in puddle-form or have it be used at full strenght while in puddle form. Please note that the first part about movement speed is what I consider to be the most important part, Tidal Surge was more of an after-thought. Its a really small change but the effects of said change can make Hydroid into a super fun warframe to play who is also very effective.

Oh I just thought of something else. Making it so that for every enemy you pull into undertow the damage increase per second will be more powerful. Example: For every enemy after the first one ( second and up) the DPS increase per second is 10% more powerful.

Btw imagine this. Youre playing a Hydroid running through an exterminate in the Grineer Galleon tileset. You see a group of grineer. You have melee equiped, guard up and running towards them blocking their bullets along the way and just as youre getting close you use Undertow, get just a little bit slower but keep on moving submerging the grineer. Then you just sip across the room as a fast moving puddle absorbing enemies upon enemies, letting youre tendrils drag them in. For every enemy you drag in you become more powerful and damage each and every one of them even more.

To me that sounds absolutely amazing, but its seems a bit hard to play like that for extended periods of time at the moment, but if you could do it longer I believe that most players would be very happy with the changes.

[FoxFX]

45 minutes ago, ThiagoSampaio said:

I see a lot of people complaining about the way the Tentacle Swarm works inside Undertow. Please do not change this, it's a great way to keep your tentacles concentrated in one spot

I think the issue they have is how using Tentacle Swarm with Undertow does NOTHING to the enemies that are already in Undertow. Unlike Temepst Barrage that does hit enemies in Undertow making the Undertow tactic slightly quicker, Tentacle Swarm is suggested to perhaps increase the Damage per Second of Undertow once activated.

[FoxFX]

 

[Ardhanarishvara]

I think this rework is a step in the right direction. However:

Tentacle Swarm

My suggestion? Two attack stages: Pin & Slam

• PIN will do Corrosive in a DoT for 2-3 seconds while a sort of before-image of the tentacle will extend outwards to another position. During this time, the tentacle will take a percentage of any damage inflicted on the enemy before armour/resistances and store it as finisher damage.
• SLAM will occur once the before-image touches the ground, the Tentacle snapping like a whip, and flailing the enemy into the new position, inflicting the finisher damage stored during the PIN. If combined with something like Banshee's Savage Silence, it will also gain that damage modifier to finisher attacks.
• Rinse & Repeat until duration runs out.

The point of this is to give teammates a chance to actually target enemies caught, as well as predict where they'll go so that it won't be as much of a pain to kill anything caught by Tentacle Swarm.

Undertow

I feel like how Undertow works right now should operate somewhat like Limbo's Rift Dash - maybe with crouching instead of rolling, with crouching causing a partial submerge with 50% evasion while slide submerges you completely for a moment and shifts your position. Bullet jumping out of such a submerged state would leave behind a tentacle. This is based off a suggestion made earlier in the thread, with my own additions.

Meanwhile, 3 gets changed to an ability that allows you to summon additional puddles that sink enemies in up to their knees, miring them but not removing them from the equation entirely, with additional Tentacles sprouting from them when Tentacle Swarm is cast anywhere else. Perhaps chargeable for additional size, perhaps not. Slam attacks on a puddle would have GUARANTEED slam tentacles.

Hydroid submerging inside such a puddle could double its radius and allow him to snag enemies in.

Maybe submerging on top of a Kraken would allow you to assume it and move the Tentacle Swarm around.

Tidal Surge

Kind of unreliable for actually dragging enemies along. Especially when submerged.
 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Ardhanarishvara

[(PSN)Triaurum]

My only complaints at this moment, is that we can't colour the tentacles like before :(

I don't mind them being partially see-through(or transparent), but please DE let us colour the tentacles again. Thx

[AcedFox]

2 hours ago, Burning_Crisis said:

Im sorry, But this is not a range nerf, the only range they adjusted that really makes a difference is for his undertow, his tentacle swarm on the other hand is like his first ability. Charge it up and it increases in power and range. The range is definantly much farther with the new Hydroid

 

Then at least they should reduce the charge time. This gimmick that no other frame got takes to long, result there are moments you die before you can cast it properly. and no, there is no room for 'natural talent' on this frame.

For a CC his abilities are really, REALLY limited with the range and speed. and with that energy costs a lot too.

It would have been better if:

- The energy needed for a full cast of his 1st and 4th was the default energy amount and anything smaller less energy.

- Moving around in the puddle does not cost more energy since you are sooo sloooww. Using tidal surge to move quickly cost already enough in that case.

 

I was kinda hyped with the beautiful prime version looks and that it was going to get a 'rework'. (what later became a simple 'revisit')

Personally I was looking forward to see the passive and puddle being removed/replaced with something else.

Instead of that [DE] focused on the most unwanted ability making it better (what i do like though, don't get me wrong), yet all over abilities suddenly are no longer that useful as they were.

Edited August 12, 2017 by AcedFox

[Tigrius_MkIV]

Global : 

- Overall a good rework. The gameplay is really adaptative, you can choose how you use your 1 and 4.

- The damage are correct but need a small buff, you can add it to Tidal Surge like I propose. 

- Hydroid is become a correct Warframe, but need some little tweak to become good.

- The passive should be effective on ground finisher too. Hydroid can create lot's of occasion to deal ground finisher. 

 

Tempest Barrage : 

- The stats showed in the abilities menu isn't clear. The duration is that for the "simple cast" and the damage are that for the "full cast"

- No animation during the full cast. Only when the spell is "release". That's a bit awkward when you use it. 

- The time for the full cast looks too long between 2 and 3s (hard to calculate), even with Natural Talent. 

- The damage are good, the CC is good for cripling a zone. I don't expect something completely reliable. It's a "missile" barrage after all. 

- The effect of Power Range is great because finally you improve your CC and increase the overall damage without any lost of reliability. 

 

Tidal Surge : 

- The fact you can use it while Undertow is active is very nice. But I expect a better synergie. The fact than the ennemy you have "in" Undertow follow you when you use Tidal Surge. Actually if you ennemy in Undertow and you use Tidal Surge, you will "release" them behind you. 

- The cost is too high for a skill who just ragdoll ennemy when you rush. The Rhino charge is globally the same thing for the half of the cost. Because Hydroid lack a little bit of damage, I suggest to add a short buff (+/- 15s) of weapon damages and Power Strength (+/- 30%) for you and allies contacted by Tidal Surge. A better "Yaarrgh !" effect in short. 

 

Undertow : 

- A really interesting rework here. This skill is become the bread and butter of Hydroid. 

- Just decrease a little bit the delay between the cast of Undertow and the other abilities. It's pretty hard to know when your are able to cast a new abilities when the animation of Undertow just finished. That's make the overall gameplay of Hydroid more fluid (lel).

 

Tentacle Swarm : 

- The stats showed in the abilities menu isn't clear. The finisher damage showed are those when you active Tentacle Swarm.

- The synergy between Undertow and Tentacle swarm is weird. The finisher damages are doubled. But, ennemies in the puddle aren't damage by the tentacles. You have to leave the puddle to doing that, and if you do that you lost the the damage when the tentacles appear. You a really short window to cast Tentacle Swarm and leave the puddle to benefit of the full damage. Pretty hard to do in the middle of the fight. 

- I really want to see the Kraken doing something. No necessarely a damage source but just moving around. 

 

Finally :

- Hydroid will never become a popular Warframe but that doesn't mean is not effective. CC are powerfull but when they are reliable. Now it's better but not perfect, and shouldn't be. The overall damage are correct, but they dispatch between lot's of ennemy and are dealed on time. All of that's do that we have lot's of difficulties to see its impact during a game. 

IMO, Hydroid is correct but lack of feeling of power. You launch you abilities, it does things but it's hard to know how effective we are. For example, I just do a defense lvl 60 recently, I have spam my abilities and use pretty bad stuff (leveling). But I was first in damage.   

It stay a correct source of damage and can denied lot's of ennemy at the same time. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Tigrius_MkIV

[Bloop]

Here is my suggestion on how I believe the abilities could be made overall better, and improve his team synergy in the process:

• Tempest barrage: Lower the charge time, it is too much at the moment for such a fast paced game like this, which makes little sense, or at least make Natural talent affect the charge time. Make the projectiles spawn from hydroid himself (say they spawn from his stomach, for an idea, and do not stop until the duration is over), that way any sort of issue in close range areas is prevented, such as the barrage not hitting the area, but the walls around it. Furthermore, the barrage could attempt to seek out enemies that enter the marked area of effect.

 

• Tidal Surge: it has got mobility and CC, it does not really need anything in my opinion.

 

• Undertow: This one could use further changes. What I suggest is that Hydroid will not drown them anymore, instead the enemy's head will remain visible for allies, and receive a damage multiplier (similar to Ivara's prowl, basically). Furthermore, set a cap for the amount of enemies that can remain in the puddle at a time, and make the damage over time based on the enemy's base health (Would suggest 10%, so 10 seconds to kill the enemies, balanced in my opinion), since they are not drowning, you could say they are being devoured by piranhas. Another change would be making it a charged mechanic as well, so say you charge it to spawn it somewhere else, so you can benefit from the headshot multiplier when playing solo and whatnot.

 

• Tentacle Swarm: return it's base range pre-revisit, with the same amount of tentacles when uncharged. Now here's where it would change:
  • Reduce the charge time.
  • When you charge the ability, the tentacles will no longer slam enemies, but instead will just hold them in the air, also applying a damage multiplier like seen in Undertow. Once an enemy is killed, the tentacle will hide and grab another enemy, instead of just trying to grab one from the initial position, this way tentacles would have a 100% chance to catch enemies on the charged ability. Of course, the charged ability will double the amount of tentacles, but the range will remain the same.

Edited August 12, 2017 by .Bubberducky

[(XBOX)KSI KanekiCrow]

The so called rework that was given to Hydroid is rather underwhelming. It was more of a buff than a rework which is rather sad, as Zephyr has a higher pick rate.

My thoughts on an actual rework would be giving him a stance switch property like that of Equinox(to a point). His first ability could be the switch. 

For his switch he could possibly I have two ideas. In one stance he is regular Hydroid, in this stance he gains power efficiency or power duration (percentages are up to you). When he stance switches, he breaks himself down into his water form. In this stance let's give him some damage reduction as he is water.

His second ability in his solid, regular stance, could deal more with tentacle themed casts(goes for all abilities in this stance). So in his regular stance, the kracken's head engulf nearby enemies and keep them in its stomach for a short duration, then regurgitate them with reduced damage output or some other debuff. In his water stance, he could cover the field in water(based on range and amount of water varies). This can be a toggle or channel ability. Enemies who are on the water will have an opposite Vauban trip effect. Where they fall backwards. 

For the third, in his regular stance, Hydoid could summon tentacles from his body(probably make this a toggle), in which he can knock down nearby enemies. In the water stance you can CREATE(not become) a crushing wave that pushes enemies to a desired location.

His ultimate within his regular stance could be a sort of "box" made of seaweed or tentacles, with the top open. Within the box crowd control effects last longer(for both parties as to make this balanced). Hydroid's other abilities could play off of this box. 

In his water, he becomes the power of water itself, he takes less damage, has higher movement speed, and has the ability to"drown enemies that are inside of the so called box(when he does this though he is the water that is within the box and cannot cast other abilities or fire while in this state. While enemies are being drowned, over time their defenses begin to weaken

Hydroid's passive could be after using an ability, Hydroid gains efficiency on casts.

My other idea is more complicated so based on feedback I may post another. Let me know what you all think 

[WaterWarrior]

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)KSI KanekiCrow said:

the kracken's head engulf nearby enemies and keep them in its stomach for a short duration, then regurgitate them with reduced damage output or some other debuff

I like this part. I posted my ideas for hydroid too, if you wish to check them under the title "Idea 4 Hydroid"

[Rakosta_Kai]

This isn't a re-work but an entirely different frame altogether.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Hes no better. If anything hes worse. Why dont we scrap the rework and start over. Just increase the strength of his 3 and 4... By making them scale.

Make his 1 seek enemies and scale

Make his 2 work like atlas's landslide.

[(XBOX)KSI KanekiCrow]

I just suggested this as Hydroid's most recent change is rather lack luster. He's a CC frame so I tried to keep it that way

[(XBOX)KSI KanekiCrow]

3 minutes ago, WaterWarrior said:

I like this part. I posted my ideas for hydroid too, if you wish to check them under the title "Idea 4 Hydroid"

Thanks :)

[leadwolf1]

1 hour ago, FoxFX said:

 

Sorry about you not playing hydroid, so then with that being said; From what I see is a lot of players jumping on the ban wagon , just like when a team is winning a sport. It seems to me everyone wants DE to change it to the way they want. and if not the still will not play it . there are so many player that only leveled it for mastery and never used it after that and now want to be the expert on the frame. Everyone is entitled to an opinion , yes. but not when they really do not use the frame and will not use it for they have who they use and are set in only 1 way to play the game and do not want to change. There is nothing wrong with that by the way. I have watched hydroids being leveled even by players who had no interest in him before , just to give an opinion. all this does is bog down trying to get it right for those who want to use the frame. and who have but realize he is not a higher level , keep up with the mission, do damage or even cc with the holes that enemies are not even hit and walk through and kill you. frame as of yet. I believe that more than half of the players trying him out are doing so in lower missions and saying that  abilities are fine. if we cut them out and then cut out those who just dusted it off or just made it to give their opinion then we would have ideas to work with. The thing I want to see is hydroid stay hydroid , if you want to change all abilities the just submit a new frame  on the proper forum  with your ideas.

 thank you for listening 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

5 minutes ago, leadwolf1 said:

Sorry about you not playing hydroid, so then with that being said; From what I see is a lot of players jumping on the ban wagon , just like when a team is winning a sport. It seems to me everyone wants DE to change it to the way they want. and if not the still will not play it . there are so many player that only leveled it for mastery and never used it after that and now want to be the expert on the frame. Everyone is entitled to an opinion , yes. but not when they really do not use the frame and will not use it for they have who they use and are set in only 1 way to play the game and do not want to change. There is nothing wrong with that by the way. I have watched hydroids being leveled even by players who had no interest in him before , just to give an opinion. all this does is bog down trying to get it right for those who want to use the frame. and who have but realize he is not a higher level , keep up with the mission, do damage or even cc with the holes that enemies are not even hit and walk through and kill you. frame as of yet. I believe that more than half of the players trying him out are doing so in lower missions and saying that  abilities are fine. if we cut them out and then cut out those who just dusted it off or just made it to give their opinion then we would have ideas to work with. The thing I want to see is hydroid stay hydroid , if you want to change all abilities the just submit a new frame  on the proper forum  with your ideas.

 thank you for listening 

I dont want to change his abilities. I love this frame. I just want him to do more damage. However, if nothing changes... If he just stays the way he originally was... Id be more happy than this rework.

Edited August 12, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[TigranZ]

For lack of being able to find my previous comment:

Upon further testing yesterday for Hydroid, I feel a few things could be changed to fit around his current kit if you do decide to keep it centred around Undertow.

His abilities as follows:

Tempest Barrage: increased damage albeit not by much, just for scaling purposes. Also to allow for greater freedom of usage just reduce the charge time slightly.

Tidal Surge: overall a really nice escape ability, but I'd like to see it that if you do use it whilst in undertow that it would allow for the enemies to remain stranded in the puddle as you move.

Undertow: rather than it now just being a moving puddle, for it to actually become an aoe cc in so far as becoming a whirlpool. Slowly dragging enemies to the centre where they get sucked down to the crushing depths, this would allow for more incentives to use it as a cc but with the ability for any enemy that reaches the middle to die. Also it would allow for teammates to have a fair chance to shoot at them before they finally sink beneath the abyss.

Tentacle Swarm: hydroid's bread and butter, the whole reason half of the players of this game have him. If it is possible to have the Kraken (the epicness that was supposed to ensue) actually swim around during the duration and either help out with damage or just even existing for the entire duration would be a start. I was one of many who tuned in after seeing it appear in the screenshot only to be disappointed with his 5 second hello before he disappeared.

If the tentacles could share his/her textures as well then it would allow for a greater feeling of appreciation for our oceanic friend. Last but not least though to have the tentacles do a slight bit more damage so it makes it worth it to cast rather than it just being an annoyance for teammates.

Lastly his passive: instead of it being a 50% chance of spawning a tentacle upon a slam attack, it could be that every time he takes fatal damage that he could instead gain a watery form, allowing him 5 seconds of invulnerability before returning to the fray. It would be most likely on a cool down of course otherwise he would never die, but it would be a very welcome change.

If DE reads this, thank you for your time and hopefully we can all enjoy Hydroid the deadly oceanic terror soon, it breaks me as an avid hydroid user to see other frames doing what he does but far better.

 

[(XBOX)BlissfulCard]

I love Hydroid and I just wanted to share my thoughts on his kit. I mostly like to imagine his powers being just a massive storm in the ocean with no escape.

Brand new first ability...

A type of water shell or skin that protects him from status effects like toxic, burning, and so on. Think for Rhino and what his skin does.

Tidal Surge

Keep it much like it is but don't travel with it. Have him send it out with the option of charging it for added effect and more power.

Undertow and Swarm combined...

Be able to cast undertow at a location freely and have the kraken in it ready to strike. As enemies draw near the kraken emerges lashing out, grabbing them, and dragging them to a watery grave.

A new fourth ability with Barrage added in...

You summon a massive whirlpool that pulls in enemies, traps them in the current, and then have Barrage unless on everything WITHIN the pool. That way you get hits and it's not random rng strikes. 

I'm still really new to this game so I'm no expert but sharing my thoughts. ^^

 

 

 

 

 

[leadwolf1]

SO with all that has been said I POSE A QUESTION TO ALL Hydroid players, READING THIS, would you be against if DE made undertow  so that the enemies armor , shields and ancients were stripped of those and the abilities staggered or confused them when they popped out as to be able to kill them and move on and do so in a quicker fashion without damage done any longer?   

there would be no reason to stay puddled for a long period.

[Lyravain]

8 hours ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:

The problem being is DE 'reworked' Hydriod to sell his upcoming Prime Access. If the community doesn't like Hydriod's dark chocolate, why the hell would they try to make it a cake and think the community at large would buy it?

Because Hydroid NEEDED a rework? Most of the community didn't touch him, but there are people who genuinely liked him. And they deserve an update on a frame they like. Besides, they did this with Ash's rework, and all the complains were because he stopped auto-killing everything.

 

7 hours ago, DeathGold said:

i liked the old one ... i didn't like the new one ...

What about the 'new one' do you NOT like? It's LITERALLY what he did before, EXACTLY, only now there's more synergy. They removed NOTHING and added a bit of quality of life. So, what, precisely, is there about the new Hydroid that you don't like, that wasn't an issue with the old hydroid? It's literally the same with the Limbo players complaining about how the 'old Limbo' was better than 'new Limbo' despite the Limbo rework removing absolutely NOTHING, and only adding benefits.

[_QuXotic_RagE_]

Right now the main problem i have with hydroid the tentacle swarm. I really like the new visuals but if there's a kraken face in the centre i want proper skin to the tentacles as well if its possible. :)

As of the ability itself i dont like that it keeps on smashing enemies and we are unable to shoot them. It would be great if kraken is summoned and each of his tentacles (with proper skin texture :P) just grabs enemies and holds them above the ground and charging it will give more tentacles which will hold on more enemies as a result. The constant smashing feels useless as neither we nor the kraken kills enemies so cc seems kinda useless.

Another thing that would be great is whenever we summon kraken in Undertow it holds less or no enemies but acts as a defensive thing and allies standing in that space gets damage reduction as the tencles block bullets.

I feel all other abilities are ok except the passive. I was thinking if u can change it to something else like a chance to spawn a small undertow on bullet jump or a 100% chance to spawn a tentacle. I Iove the synergy but i really want the tentacles to have proper skin textures and tentacles near the face have like alongated tentacle that joins or goes near the face. 

 

Thanks for the unexpected revisit to hydroid, keep up the good work. :)

Edited August 12, 2017 by _QuXotic_RagE_

[Koldraxon-732]

I think DE has two kinds of 'frame changes:

Reworks: Where one or more powers is replaced with something entirely new (see: Excalibur rework).

Revisits: Where the functionality of existing powers is changed, rebuilt, or improved (see: Nekros/Volt/Mag/Rhino/Oberon/Vauban revisit), but little else.

As for Hydroid, I've been swimming using him for a few hours, and the only problems I'm finding now are:

Spoiler

 

1: His powers don't seem to be doing any damage to enemies over level 25 or so; they should scale with enemies to some degree to compensate for lackluster damage output.
Solution: Add elemental procs such as Corrosive and Viral to his powers, and his ult should have Impact damage - all of which scale with Hydroid's equipped weapons. His first ability gets a cloud and stormy weather, causing mild Cold damage and random Electricity damage to enemies caught in the storm.
2: His first ability has no charging animation - the one used in his ult would do just fine. Casting speed for Barrage should be doubled, and Barrages that 'touch' eachother's AOE should turn into a greater Storm which causes the electricity and cold procs on top of corrosive and viral.

Beyond this are suggestions.

Spoiler

3: Kraken should swim about and gobble up enemies, puking out health/energy/ammo/+ random resources (not necessarily ones on the planet) via Pilfering/a chance at some resources.
4: His Undertow should have physics applied (i.e; going up stairs is as slow as is now, but going down them is twice as fast).
5: In Undertow, Hydroid should gain an energy efficiency buff that is shared to anyone standing and crouching on his puddle.
6: Passive should be replaced with crouching causing a mini-undertow, and sliding causing a mini Tidal surge.

 

Beyond that, he is able to slip in and out of trouble easily, and works best with Energy Siphon due to his power-hunger.