Ember's Deluxe Skin Feedback

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

Yeah...you keep on believing we're a "vocal minority". I expected a post like this from you, I'm just surprised that you didn't show up earlier.

 

You saw a few people with the skin. Well that's nice but all it proves is that a few people like the skin and nothing else. You do know that anecdotal arguments are pretty flimsy, right? 

The real evidence as to what the consensus is on something is the public feedback given on that thing. In this case it's all been predominantly negative and highly critical. So I guess that makes all the people that said "Actually I like this skin" the true "vocal minority" here.

I worked for a major advertising agency for at least 6 years helping with ad campaigns for major resorts in the Caribbean. I'm also a project manager for a major architectural sign company where I live, so I know a thing or two about budgeting  and marketing - and definitely more than you do.

And no, they don't know a thing about properly promoting themselves. No company in their right mind would have spent a ridiculous amount of money taking out ad-space in Times Square and tv spots to advertise the upcoming release of a bug-ridden, weakly balanced BETA build  of a major expansion to a game. That was a huge, risky, and stupid gamble on their part.

Lol..... Maybe they should hire you. DE clearly has no idea about what they're doing. Can you save them with your glorious insight mr.big time caribbean marketer?

If they're not #1 they must not have a clue. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[DatDarkOne]

45 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Yeah...you keep on believing we're a "vocal minority". I expected a post like this from you, I'm just surprised that you didn't show up earlier.

Previous experience and history has somewhat shown this to be true in most cases.  What I mean is that only those who are unhappy voice it whereas those that are happy usually don't say anything.  If more are happy than those that aren't, then vocal minority is absolutely true.  Only the sale numbers that DE has will show the truth.  If the sales show a good percentage of the total players bought the skin, then those that dislike the Deluxe skin definitely are the vocal minority.  

 

[MiniReaper]

On 11/2/2017 at 4:02 PM, [DE]Megan said:

This thread began as feedback and has progressively turned into derailing comments due to the launch of Ember’s Vermillion Skin. As an Ember fanatic, I’m here to interject some words. 

If we could use the first proposed Ember Deluxe Skin, we would. It’s a beautiful design, but unfortunately creative differences made moving forward with it impossible. Could we publically dive into great detail as to what those creative differences were? Sure. But we’re not about naming and shaming here in the Warframe community. So of course our team had to start over with a new design that steered itself in a different artistic direction. The apology from the responsible party is here:

 

I’m truly disappointed to see some disrespectful words being tossed around about artistic feedback. 

At the end of the day, the DE team put love and effort into making the Vermillion Skin. It’s your choice to either purchase it or pass on it. With the current track of amazing Warframe TennoGen artists there will be plenty of different Skins to grace the majesty that is Ember.

This is not the end of all Skins for Ember - so please keep your feedback constructive. 

"there will be plenty of different Skins to grace the majesty that is Ember."

I see what you did there :)

[Berzerkir]

I'd still rather the original design, falling out or not. We already have mohawk, edgy mohawk, and fire mohawk. Why did we need a feather mohawk instead of literally anything else? and better yet, add more fire to push the phoenix motif instead of a mistaken zephyr if this is meant to stay.

[(PSN)LordZezrel]

I don't like it, thats all I'm gonna say about that thing.

[akira_him]

I just brought the skin to see how suck it is, it is not bad but it is not particularly good, we need more flames

[HollowWitch]

13 hours ago, MeiWIZ said:

excuse me...
People who don't like,not customers?
We don't matter?

Excuse me. did they say anything about people like you not being customers?

But not every piece of content needs to be tailored to you. It's a skin, there are plenty of skins I don't like, so I DON'T BUY THEM and move on. Doing anything other than minor fixes is unfair on the people who like the skin and have already spent money on it.

Edited November 6, 2017 by SeriouslySinister

[Berzerkir]

On 11/2/2017 at 4:02 PM, [DE]Megan said:

At the end of the day, the DE team put love and effort into making the Vermillion Skin.

The same way you put love and effort into hydroid's puddle instead of removing it? or removing overheat instead of fireblast? Or, you know, the fact that even the chat of the devstream where you showed the peacock had very little good to say?

Love and effort would have been seeing the public's clear disdain and realizing the idea was a bad one. 

[Fylas]

On 11/2/2017 at 9:02 PM, [DE]Megan said:

This thread began as feedback and has progressively turned into derailing comments due to the launch of Ember’s Vermillion Skin. As an Ember fanatic, I’m here to interject some words. 

If we could use the first proposed Ember Deluxe Skin, we would. It’s a beautiful design, but unfortunately creative differences made moving forward with it impossible. Could we publically dive into great detail as to what those creative differences were? Sure. But we’re not about naming and shaming here in the Warframe community. So of course our team had to start over with a new design that steered itself in a different artistic direction. The apology from the responsible party is here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/734001-my-personal-apology-to-the-fans/

I’m truly disappointed to see some disrespectful words being tossed around about artistic feedback. 

At the end of the day, the DE team put love and effort into making the Vermillion Skin. It’s your choice to either purchase it or pass on it. With the current track of amazing Warframe TennoGen artists there will be plenty of different Skins to grace the majesty that is Ember.

This is not the end of all Skins for Ember - so please keep your feedback constructive. 

... :< my post went poof and I didn't even get told why.....

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

On 11/3/2017 at 3:31 PM, IgnusDei said:

I'm sorry, but what? Who told you this?

Look, just to set the record straight: As I understand it, DE has full rights to the Ember Deluxe 1.0 design, otherwise they would not have been able to display those changes to the artwork on the devstream.

I was going off of this, though I probably shouldn't say "by contract".

[Justice_Ember]

On 2/11/2017 at 5:02 PM, [DE]Megan said:

If we could use the first proposed Ember Deluxe Skin, we would. It’s a beautiful design, but unfortunately creative differences made moving forward with it impossible.

 

So, uhm...

[T40Productions]

From what I understand so far, people aren't really mad about how Ember Deluxe looks. Well...they are, but that's not the true cause for their ire. As I see it, people are more mad about DE pushing the design even though a great majority of players who initially saw the design were not on board with it. In that sense, I'd have to agree on that. I'd rather DE delay the design of the project and release it late but with a better design (better as in a majority of players also are on board with it). This isn't talking about Ember Deluxe either, this is general. We can't change the fact that Ember Deluxe is out already, whether we like it or not.

I would rather in the future that when a design is released via stream and a majority of the chat responds negatively, to go to the forums and just ask people what aspects of the skin is not aesthetically pleasing. From there, just take the parts that people either don't complain about or praise, and design around those aspects. It may require the team to go back to the drawing board, it may require the skin to be delayed for a longer time, but I think can speak for most when I say that we would rather wait a longer time for a skin that we enjoy than get a skin that we dislike on time.

[IgnusDei]

Once again, I feel I must repeat: I am not the reason they wouldn't use the skin. That 'reason' they speak of is a mystery to me.

Edited November 6, 2017 by IgnusDei

[Feltal]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

I was going off of this, though I probably shouldn't say "by contract".

The reason is someone in the art department is still mad about it.

[Orabell]

11 minutes ago, Feltal said:

The reason is someone in the art department is still mad about it.

As long as we don't get some kind of statement or explanation (not that we're entitled to one) I'm assuming that either they're stubborn about it or they know they **** up and don't want to make it worse. 

[MirageKnight]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

I was going off of this, though I probably shouldn't say "by contract".

That segment in the stream is nothing more than a sales pitch and propaganda piece. I'd expect to see to shilling and hucksterism of this level on the Home Shopping Network, not an official gaming channel.

"It's a hot-rod!"

To me at least, with default colours, it looks like a large tropical bird costume. Even with different colors, Ember still looks like a bird. Lots of people see a bird / chicken. There's no "female fire warrior" vibe going on that I can honestly see. The modelling and texturing is technically very good...hat's off to the artist(s) on that...but this "look" arguably does not work with Ember. She's a pyro-kinetic. She deals with fire and heat. If this is supposed to be a take on a Phoenix, which I'm guessing you were all trying to pull off, where's the fire motifs? I don't see anything like that here. This suits Zephyr far more than Ember.

Although I didn't care for it, at least Frost's Deluxe Skin continued the established "Ice Warrrior" theme. Same with the other Deluxe skins - they clearly continued a 'Frame's established theme while giving us something different. This though? Sorry, but even though the skin's well made, it misses Ember's established theme by a light year.

 

[Hypernaut1]

3 hours ago, Trunks40 said:

From what I understand so far, people aren't really mad about how Ember Deluxe looks. Well...they are, but that's not the true cause for their ire. As I see it, people are more mad about DE pushing the design even though a great majority of players who initially saw the design were not on board with it. In that sense, I'd have to agree on that. I'd rather DE delay the design of the project and release it late but with a better design (better as in a majority of players also are on board with it). This isn't talking about Ember Deluxe either, this is general. We can't change the fact that Ember Deluxe is out already, whether we like it or not.

I would rather in the future that when a design is released via stream and a majority of the chat responds negatively, to go to the forums and just ask people what aspects of the skin is not aesthetically pleasing. From there, just take the parts that people either don't complain about or praise, and design around those aspects. It may require the team to go back to the drawing board, it may require the skin to be delayed for a longer time, but I think can speak for most when I say that we would rather wait a longer time for a skin that we enjoy than get a skin that we dislike on time.

They shouldn't have to design by committee. 

They make a skin either we like it and buy it or we don't.

Any outrage because of not having input is ridiculous

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

48 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

-snip-

Okay, that was laughable. You really called that a sales pitch? What exactly led you to that conclusion? Rebecca and Megan only said that they're is a reason that they cannot use the skin and if they could, they would. If they wanted to make sales, they would have used the Ignus skin.

[(XBOX)SilkyGuide270]

This artist did some good work on the previous skins made. They were unique, showed diversity and encouraged players to want it just by their mere beauty.

After seeing the original concept for ember, it was a sure buy for me but this release is really far from what we had all hoped ember deluxe would have been.

I'm saddened that for the sake of the fans / customers DE did not reconcile with the artist to get this in game seeing how positive the reaction was.

Variety is indeed the spice of life and whilst this might just be a QoL issue with many people, the loss of a skilled artist to this community is what is greater; as we will never see this unique perspective in WF ever again.

Even if it was not all about money, it makes little sense to continue down a path and make a product that few people will buy just because "we had no other options" ( at the time ).

I would have preferred that they Not Release an Ember skin at all and wait till they had something great to present instead of going through with this plan, but it is what it is. The sales generated will show if the decision made was the right one.

For the sake for all parties involved, this is an Open request to the artist ( if he ever reads this ) as well as to DE :  

We can Hotfix this - Redtext Incoming ...

 

 

 

[DeltaPangaea]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

They shouldn't have to design by committee. 

They make a skin either we like it and buy it or we don't.

Any outrage because of not having input is ridiculous

'Make a product that people want' is not design by committee. If you show your potential customers a design and the feedback is largely negative, why would you push forward with it? The point of it is to make them happy. The point is to make them want to buy it.

Add in the fact that for a lot of people this effectively means 'Ember's not getting a Deluxe skin', then it's not unreasonable for people to be upset.

[Justice_Ember]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

They make a skin either we like it and buy it or we don't

As I have stated it before, this doesn't solve anything, collectors and fans will buy it regardless, I even bought the nova deluxe and other than leveling her to 30 and forma'd her a couple times I barely use. How many people buy the skin will hardly reflect the true state of mind of the Ember fans. 
 

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Any outrage because of not having input is ridiculous

Is not about not having input, it's about a disregarding completely the opinion of the community, add to that Scotts's comment on how they "listen to the community", it's breaks my heart, man, it really does.

[Violet_Xe]

On 11/4/2017 at 10:17 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

I think DE knows more about their finances than some forum marketer. 

I've already seen a few people with the skin, about as much as I've seen other skins on release. 

This vocal minority on the forum means nothing is de has internal metrics that show people still buy.

I took a break from this for awhile so, coming back into it. There are people who run around with it just to try it out, see if it could actually be made better like me. I tried to make it look good and i made it look... decent. Sure they might know more about finances but that doesn't mean they can't screw up every now and then with one of their massive gambles. stuff like this is a massive cosmetic gamble on an already unstable ground since everyone wanted ignus's ver. Other people who use other deluxe skins actually still use them and will always have a slot B or A. but stuff like nova and this will never be on slot A or B in fact maybe they will be replaced completely. Granted there are some people who actually like this skin and some people say to scrap it. but i disagree with that, i don't have an issue with this skin staying in game and i have slight issues with the bundle mechanics. but what i really hate here is that we were expecting ignus's or something better and atm it seems pretty clear the large majority of people are in favor of ignus compared to this newer version. People still buy it, but alot of people actually wont and will also be driven away from ember because of this. this hurts their reputation and gives them less income then the ingus one would.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

I took a break from this for awhile so, coming back into it. There are people who run around with it just to try it out, see if it could actually be made better like me. I tried to make it look good and i made it look... decent. Sure they might know more about finances but that doesn't mean they can't screw up every now and then with one of their massive gambles. stuff like this is a massive cosmetic gamble on an already unstable ground since everyone wanted ignus's ver. Other people who use other deluxe skins actually still use them and will always have a slot B or A. but stuff like nova and this will never be on slot A or B in fact maybe they will be replaced completely. Granted there are some people who actually like this skin and some people say to scrap it. but i disagree with that, i don't have an issue with this skin staying in game and i have slight issues with the bundle mechanics. but what i really hate here is that we were expecting ignus's or something better and atm it seems pretty clear the large majority of people are in favor of ignus compared to this newer version. People still buy it, but alot of people actually wont and will also be driven away from ember because of this. this hurts their reputation and gives them less income then the ingus one would.

At this point, I think the community is massively over-rating that Ember skin.

This sounds so overdramatic.

[Berzerkir]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

At this point, I think the community is massively over-rating that Ember skin.

This sounds so overdramatic.

we feel like we were bait and switched. We were excited for field A but got field B with little say in the matter, and the public opinion was not taken into account to make the new zephyr skin look less like zephyr.

[Hypernaut1]

42 minutes ago, Berzerkir said:

we feel like we were bait and switched. We were excited for field A but got field B with little say in the matter, and the public opinion was not taken into account to make the new zephyr skin look less like zephyr.

I think it's more about choosing sides in a situation that none of us truly know about. That's how it see it. 

It much less about how ugly the skin is, more "punishment" for DEs disagreement with the artist. I say this because there were a bunch of BS threads about just the mohawk on the other design. 

That's my take on it.