Should passive energy regeneration be a norm for our Warframes? (Like Archwing)

[fatpig84]

1 hour ago, BlueberryIsWar said:

Yes. Beginners have neither Energy Pads nor Energy Siphon. And they should finally stop balancing the game around Veterans with corrupted mods, auras and unlimited ressources.

Especially since producinh Energy Pads is a pain, without queues and other QoL features.

Alternatively they should just nerf tanks and invi frames to the ground. And ofc Limbo and EV Trin. :)

 

If you are going to argue schematics at least get it right.

You don't get into 2nd Dream until you unlock Neptune Junction.
The way the game is  structured means that they will have pads/trinity/and E siphon long before they get to even choosing their Focus school.
And Uranus is meant to be a gear and grind wall. Since Uranus needs both AW and Frames to progress (Uranus missions all require AW due to underwater locations, so no avoiding AW now)

So newbies will be there for quite sometime and I am sure no bare bones newbie is going to take down Tyl Regor and his goons that quickly.So stop dragging newbies into your argument. Put out constructive ones.

And here is how junctions are unlocked. 
Accordingly in order and their quest line.

MERCURY
VENUS
MARS
PHOBOS
CERES
JUPITER
EUROPA
SATURN
URANUS
NEPTUNE (2nd Dream)
PLUTO
ERIS (Patient Zero)
SEDNA (Hidden Messages, War Within)

 

 

Edited September 21, 2017 by fatpig84

[Naaya]

27 minutes ago, fatpig84 said:

 

You don't get into 2nd Dream until you unlock Neptune Junction.
The way the game is  structured means that they will have pads/trinity/and E siphon long before they get to even choosing their Focus school.
And Uranus is meant to be a gear and grind wall. Since Uranus needs both AW and Frames to progress (Uranus missions all require AW due to underwater locations, so no avoiding AW now)

 

Well, I'm one of those (semi) newbies, after several years I came back to the game. I had unlocked the planets till jupiter and only had 1 warframe and the starter weapons on me (seems like farming warframes/weapons was way harder a few years ago). In ~3 weeks I reached Sedna and farmed Saryn.

Up till now, I didn't get an Energy Siphon alert. I think I saw one alert in those weeks, which was at ~4AM in the morning. With PoE coming, I'm even thinking about trading for it, even when I'm not the type to buy ingame items with plat, but it just seems to be too rare a mod for ppl who aren't able to play 24/7. Trinity won't count, since you would be locked to that frame... I primarily used my weapons, even if it was a skill based warframe, because I simply was out of energy too soon. Be it the lack of specific mods or focus/aura, the warframe skills were just a bonus/panic skills till I finally unlocked the focus schools. And still, I just unlocked the energy regen, so I need to think twice when to use the skills.

It just feels wrong when you finally unlock an energy heavy warframe, but aren't able the use those neat skills.

[Reynard_Fox]

Yes it should. Pizzas are a poor bandaid, and having to drop everything to spawn one is sloppy and breaks the flow of combat, I hate it, and I equally hate being forced to waste mod slots for efficiency instead of more customization.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Reynard_Fox said:

Yes it should. Pizzas are a poor bandaid, and having to drop everything to spawn one is sloppy and breaks the flow of combat, I hate it, and I equally hate being forced to waste mod slots for efficiency instead of more customization.

I have mine hot-keyed and have never lost a moment in deploying one....You should try that out.

Likewise, efficiency is a form of customization...You have no more obligation to mod for it than you would range, strength, run speed.

 

[PR1D3]

No.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

4 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

No.

I concur. 

[ShogunGunshow]

Considering they keep releasing new warframe and updated warframes that specifically require an amount of spam to be effective (looking at you, Mag rework), yes, there should be some form of appropriate energy generation to compensate for the loss of Zenurik.

And no, I don't consider dropping pizzas to be the answer. I think that that becoming the intended way of playing caster frames would be a huge bungle.

"Let's see - I can play this caster frame, and have to spend minutes between each mission just crafting new pizzas, so that I can hotkey them in mission, to give me 100 a pop, or more if I want to sit my &#! down and break all flow during the mission, every time watching my resources go down the sink for abilities that don't even do much to these sortie enemies ... ... ... Or I could just play an energy-neutral tank frame."

I know which one I'd pick.

[(PSN)varas2110]

45 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

No.

nice, 

[(XBOX)chris2k30]

i find managing energy enjoyable tbh, many times i've died cause basically i never an a "oh crap" sorta moment happened, im not at same lvl as most though being abit new an just fighting lvl 50 max the now but i think if energy managment went out window for me i'd get bored, no sure though as never experienced constant up on energy so cannae really comment on what it brings to table higher content you do, but then aswell im only aiming to tackle prob upto lvl 120 or somein an if i cant manage energy an stay alive through my personal skill/setup etc then i'll step back to content i can do.

Im not against DE putting mods in that help achieve constant full energy, if i dont like i just dont use

[fatpig84]

4 hours ago, Reynard_Fox said:

Yes it should. Pizzas are a poor bandaid, and having to drop everything to spawn one is sloppy and breaks the flow of combat, I hate it, and I equally hate being forced to waste mod slots for efficiency instead of more customization.

That is no "forced to slot" for something in warframe. 

If it cost too much then tone down blind rage, if transient fortitude kills your duration use energy conversion (-5% less str and requires an orb).
it is called trade offs, which was lacking in warframe later iterations since Focus literally gave you a crutch. So that you can ignore certain aspects of modding without the care of the world.

There are people right now who don't run with any tank mods at all. They all wait is for Naramon shadow step to proc and then they go on their merry way.
Just play extremely safe for 5 minutes tops and they are good to go. Then there are people who literally blindly stack blind rage without a care, because there is no efficiency required.

Let me cite an example of a frame I like to use.
Maxed Blind rage Vex Armor Chromas burn 116 energy per cast (0 efficiency), a maxed EO fills that gauge within 29 seconds.  And Vex Armor Chromas are definitely on long duration. Even the weakest 0 forma Vex armor build last a cool 56 seconds. With EO, you get enough energy back to cast twice.  

Then wait what about Ice Elemental ward ? Oh without efficiency again with a maxed BR build it cost 78 energy.
So the initial energy dump of 116 + 78 = 194 energy. Both abilities have the same cool down.
194/4 = 48.5 seconds to fill. Any Vex armor Chroma worth it's salt will have at least a 56 second duration on Vex armor. 1 min+ duration Vex armor builds are common as well. So EO completely covers the cost of 2 abilities with 0 care of efficiency.

And barring Nullfier, Corpus shenanigans or leech exmius up the wazoos, you are completely safe.
And oh Chromas run rage too, so the process sped up even faster. 

How about the M Prime spamming Nova that drops a 60m MPrime once every 5.5 seconds with EO + ESiphon (4.6 energy a sec) with maxed efficiency (25 energy per cast) ?
 

Edited September 21, 2017 by fatpig84

[Kinetos]

It's not a boolean "no energy regen" or "energy is literally irrelevant" there exists a value of regeneration that is non-zero and not Overpowered. Let's do that. 

[Recel]

I took some rest so I'll expand on my point now.

There is no real energy management in the game, because of pizzas. There is no anything management in the game because of pizzas. Lets say you slowly amass one thousand of each type and bind them to a hotkey.

Due to how pizzas work, as in, deploying some ammo, energy, health or shield upon dropping and this effect can be stacked, technically you could achieve full energy, health, shields and ammo at all times in seconds, up to the point where mobs one shot you, by spamming a few hotkeys. The game allows you that by design.
For instance the room in Lua, where you have to stand in lasers and survive until the bars fill is easily passed by throwing down a ton of health pizzas. Technically, up to a point, especially with a tank frame, you could face-tank enemies the same way.
If you only focus on energy pizzas, produce them between missions and always deploy them when you are low on energy or depleted of it, than you have infinite energy. At that point you are not managing your energy. You are managing your pizzas.

And if we add passive power regeneration, there still won't be energy management, because pizzas are still there. If you aren't generating enough energy, you managed it poorly and run out fast, well... throw down some pizzas! Instant energy to continue even if you managed your power pool badly. The only thing that changes is you have to produce and use less pizzas to maintain an "infinite" pool of energy.

This discussion isn't about using your energy pool efficiently, because if you use what the game offers, you don't have to manage it at all. It's about convenience.
Less spamming of an item or standing around one in exchange for waiting more to regain the same amount of energy a pizza gives, but being able to move and act freely with one less button to remember.

[Naaya]

6 minutes ago, Recel said:

I took some rest so I'll expand on my point now.

There is no real energy management in the game, because of pizzas. There is no anything management in the game because of pizzas. Lets say you slowly amass one thousand of each type and bind them to a hotkey.

Due to how pizzas work, as in, deploying some ammo, energy, health or shield upon dropping and this effect can be stacked, technically you could achieve full energy, health, shields and ammo at all times in seconds, up to the point where mobs one shot you, by spamming a few hotkeys. The game allows you that by design.
For instance the room in Lua, where you have to stand in lasers and survive until the bars fill is easily passed by throwing down a ton of health pizzas. Technically, up to a point, especially with a tank frame, you could face-tank enemies the same way.
If you only focus on energy pizzas, produce them between missions and always deploy them when you are low on energy or depleted of it, than you have infinite energy. At that point you are not managing your energy. You are managing your pizzas.

And if we add passive power regeneration, there still won't be energy management, because pizzas are still there. If you aren't generating enough energy, you managed it poorly and run out fast, well... throw down some pizzas! Instant energy to continue even if you managed your power pool badly. The only thing that changes is you have to produce and use less pizzas to maintain an "infinite" pool of energy.

This discussion isn't about using your energy pool efficiently, because if you use what the game offers, you don't have to manage it at all. It's about convenience.
Less spamming of an item or standing around one in exchange for waiting more to regain the same amount of energy a pizza gives, but being able to move and act freely with one less button to remember.

and this is in my opinion a fault in game design - it's too easy to abuse such strong items without a heavy cooldown 

[z4gara]

I'm gonna offer a simple perspective of a new player. When I got my new warframe, with no aura regen, no zenurik, I wanted to use those fancy skills but couldn't. It was not fun. They looked nice and were fun to use, but they were far too restricted.

+- Two weeks later, I'm playing with Energy Siphon and Zenurik and it's much, much more fun, especially on caster frames. Having skills locked behind ridiculous costs and no regen is a waste of said skills and the time that went into developing them if we barely see them.

I don't understand people advising against regen and instead recommending using consumables. How are consumables any fun? They aren't. Press Q, select thing. Spend hours farming mats and crafting just so you can get some energy with one click. Not. Fun.

People spamming "git gud" contribute nothing to the conversation. I really dislike people vehemently protesting fun just because back in ye olde days they had to spend hours doing something they didn't enjoy just to be mildly efficient and everybody has to suffer the same fate now because the world is so unfair. It's you who needs to git gud. Mentally.

 

So yeah, from me +1 for energy regen. I like using my skills! They're shiny and fun and complement the shooty shooty stabby stabby with something exciting.

[Recel]

Just now, Naaya said:

and this is in my opinion a fault in game design - it's too easy to abuse such strong items without a heavy cooldown 

It is.

But all I'm saying is that I find it funny, that people say there shouldn't be a, let's say, 2 energy per second passive regeneration because we have pizzas. Items that you can drop down multiple of easily, gaining as much energy as you want at any time. And they say passive energy regeneration would be the option out of the two that is "OP".

[(PSN)Talyx82]

I think some passive energy regen is an okay idea (though there might be better solutions). But not BECAUSE we are losing Zenurick EO.

I still don't grasp how a blue orb falling randomly from a defeated enemy fits in with any lore or helps the immersion at all. I think some form of active regeneration by some how directly providing energy through certain actions, or simply 2 energy/kill or something, coupled with the option of Energy Siphon seems most viable. However, if it is indeed the Warframe channeling the Operator's energy to use these abilities, then some form of passive (maybe only while standing still or something?? to compensate for the apparent laziness) seems more reasonable. I'd be okay with a 1/sec. I recall playing back in the earlier days of the game and having some serious issues thinking that Warframe powers even mattered because you might be able to sue them once per mission. It was not fun and have no desire to return to those days.

I don't think EO is at all necessary, as energy drop rates have increased in probability (though I still can run 10 minutes of survival not getting more than 1 drop sometimes), but I do think some minor bump makes the game more fun, especially for lower level players. The inherent problem with EO was that it WAS unlocked so late in the game, after people likely have Energy Siphon and Flow. Before you get those, all frames play pretty much the same and are rather dull, which is why so many people get bored with Warframe so early on and are gated from enjoying it as they would later in the game when they have at least a few options to work with.

[ShogunGunshow]

I'd prefer a base of 2 energy per second. After, Flow increases energy per second in addition to its current effect. With Primed Flow, a player can reach Zenurik levels of energy Regen, or maybe even slightly more. The idea is: want to cast a lot of abilities? You have to spec like a caster.

Those are just my surface level thoughts on it, though. I'll take arcanes or probably set bonuses.

[Kylar]

Yes.

[Ayumi14]

A basic level of passive regeneration needs to this game because there is no real energy management and the consumables not answer or solutions. Those just provide a static gameplay and in a game where the health drops are bad and few can give energy and health then this things are must have. We have also eximuses which leech your energy and that is simply not a fun thing. You can kill these units but if there are ancients then your half energy at least dissapear before you could kill the leecher and still can spawn anothers too. On higher level you have no other options than the consumables which is bad.

The old one consumables were much better in term of usage but those were selfish because you just refleshed your own needs. 

I am up for a +1 energy +1 hp regen / sec those are not hurt you.

[ZeyhmaniBormahu]

It would not be op so not hurt at all if we have passive regen. I would say 1 energy per sec is fine yet not op and 2-3 hp pers sec also fine. Rejuvination is fine on it's way siphon should be buffed to give 1-1.5 energy per sec. Still won't be op but at least you have some chance to replenish your energy level partially.

[Oliwka]

As a new player I would say that was a surprise for me at first there is no any passive regen when all similar games have passive regen plus consumables. I would like to have them in this game but it is up to the devs and the majority wants. 

[Naaya]

I'd even agree to different energy regen rates for different frames, ranging from maybe 0,5-2/sec. Caster frames will have a higher regen than tanky/weapon heavy frames. That way, they could even introduce % based energy regen mods, which would benefit caster frames with their higher base regen more than the other frames.

[Acos]

I'd prefer a 5 energy regen and 1 hp regen to be the norm and then to drop blue orbs and red orbs entirely. 

[Kalvorax]

14 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

I'd prefer a base of 2 energy per second. After, Flow increases energy per second in addition to its current effect. With Primed Flow, a player can reach Zenurik levels of energy Regen, or maybe even slightly more. The idea is: want to cast a lot of abilities? You have to spec like a caster.

Those are just my surface level thoughts on it, though. I'll take arcanes or probably set bonuses.

hmm, now that you bring up flow/p.flow, what if the energy regen was universal in the sense that it was 1% total energy (not this base level 0 crud DE has going...STILL) per 1-2 seconds when not using toggled powers...that way no matter what frame is being played players would only have to wait 100-200 seconds *1 minute: 40 seconds - 3 minutes: 30 seconds* (not counting energy orbs, pads or arcanes) to full energy..thus frames with a lot of energy would not have to resort to dregs of energy. Ofc this regen would also be disabled if energy leeches or parasetics were nearby, like it is now (i think). I gave it a PERCENTAGE instead of a flat number...because flat numbers only hurt players.

personally, i think the ES and Rejuv auras should be percentage based also...again instead of flat numbers like they are now. (even if that means getting rid of the ridiculous, build destroying, stacking)

 

edit: and to prevent complete ability spam, have a CD of 2-3 seconds before the energy regen starts back up.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Kalvorax

[LokiTheCondom]

2 hours ago, Acos said:

I'd prefer a 5 energy regen and 1 hp regen to be the norm and then to drop blue orbs and red orbs entirely. 

To prevent power spam I think it's much better to limit it to 1 to 2 energy per second. As for HP regen I'm not entirely against it nor do I want it.

If the Health restores return to the market it'd be better.