Should passive energy regeneration be a norm for our Warframes? (Like Archwing)

[Skaar82]

Yes, there should be some form of energy regen...

Orbs are a total gamble. They either drop or they don't. And when you need them they usually don't... And pizzas aren't a good way to try to balance the issue, because they take you out of the flow and are too expensive in resources for new players to actually use..

Give non-potatoed frames a passive energy regen of 1,25 and potatoed ones a regen of 2,5 points per second and increase energy siphon to 1,5 points at max. Or get rid of energy siphon all together and put the effect on the flow mod...

On as side note: Energy Siphon is waaay too rare for how much it's needed... I've been playing for roughly 5 weeks and haven't even seen an altert for it yet... And if it should pop up I'll bet you it'll be during working hours or night-time...

Edited September 22, 2017 by Skaar82

[Acos]

5 hours ago, LokiTheCondom said:

To prevent power spam I think it's much better to limit it to 1 to 2 energy per second. As for HP regen I'm not entirely against it nor do I want it.

If the Health restores return to the market it'd be better.

That's in addition to removing blue orbs entirely; you'd be fully dependent on native energy regeneration rather than RNG pick up mechanics. I'm also just plainly more in favor of energy spam so what feels right for me might be different to you. 

2 energy with a mod to get to 5 would also be perfectly fine with me. This way you're giving up something for extra power, rather than simply being handed it after a mediocre amount of effort (current focus system). If you consider maximum energy efficiency, 5 is roughly 6 seconds per ultimate, where as 2 is 15 seconds. If we're at 2 with no method of going higher, I'd likely be in favor of increasing the power that powers do.  
 

HP regeneration doesn't actually change much in actual gameplay; It gives new players a way to come back from the mistakes they're making or the gameplay they can't access because they don't have the energy management to properly crowd control a hoard of enemies. At the higher level it's not going to save you from being one-shot by bombards if you're playing stupidly. New player experience improves, late game challenge doesn't really change any. Seems like a win-win. 

 

**EDIT** If native HP/MP regeneration were to become a thing, I'd also suggest a recast timer put on pizza spam. Something on the order of 30s, so you can't just hyper potion your way through a hard situation. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Acos

[Eldnacpeek]

This was mentioned in today's Remote Observer if anyone has yet to see;

Quote

• For the most popular perks like Energy Overflow, it means we're doing some deliberating. Right now we're deciding (based on the constructive contributions) what it means to call this Zenurik passive an 'essential' thing, and if something like it maybe shouldn't be locked behind a Focus school that the 4 other schools can't get. While we don't want Warframe to be infinite power spam: the game, we do want bonus energy regen systems choices to exist with investment and likely be decoupled from Focus at this point.

https://www.warframe.com/news/the-remote-observer-vol-14

[LokiTheCondom]

2 hours ago, LazerSkink said:

This was mentioned in today's Remote Observer if anyone has yet to see;

https://www.warframe.com/news/the-remote-observer-vol-14

Hory shiet they actually went through this thread!?

[LokiTheCondom]

5 hours ago, Acos said:

That's in addition to removing blue orbs entirely; you'd be fully dependent on native energy regeneration rather than RNG pick up mechanics. I'm also just plainly more in favor of energy spam so what feels right for me might be different to you. 

2 energy with a mod to get to 5 would also be perfectly fine with me. This way you're giving up something for extra power, rather than simply being handed it after a mediocre amount of effort (current focus system). If you consider maximum energy efficiency, 5 is roughly 6 seconds per ultimate, where as 2 is 15 seconds. If we're at 2 with no method of going higher, I'd likely be in favor of increasing the power that powers do.  
 

HP regeneration doesn't actually change much in actual gameplay; It gives new players a way to come back from the mistakes they're making or the gameplay they can't access because they don't have the energy management to properly crowd control a hoard of enemies. At the higher level it's not going to save you from being one-shot by bombards if you're playing stupidly. New player experience improves, late game challenge doesn't really change any. Seems like a win-win. 

 

**EDIT** If native HP/MP regeneration were to become a thing, I'd also suggest a recast timer put on pizza spam. Something on the order of 30s, so you can't just hyper potion your way through a hard situation. 

Nothing much to comment on energy regen, anything as long everyone is content and it doesn't negatively affect anything.

As for HP regen, how much regen are we talking about? Will it be to the point that it render mods like Medi Ray unnecessary, or passives like Nidus' one (then again his passive boosts his regen the more stacks you have...). I'm sort of thinking HP regen takes place once shield has been completely rejuvenated as well as players aren't taking direct health damage, similar to the Halo series. 

 

[Acos]

23 hours ago, LokiTheCondom said:

Nothing much to comment on energy regen, anything as long everyone is content and it doesn't negatively affect anything.

As for HP regen, how much regen are we talking about? Will it be to the point that it render mods like Medi Ray unnecessary, or passives like Nidus' one (then again his passive boosts his regen the more stacks you have...). I'm sort of thinking HP regen takes place once shield has been completely rejuvenated as well as players aren't taking direct health damage, similar to the Halo series. 

 

Yeah, I'd usually go with a system where you can't be taking damage for the health regen to kick in. Something like 3 seconds of no damage re-activates your natural regeneration. I'm not thinking anything dramatic, 2-3 hp a second and then possibly a mod to kick that into overdrive if you want it. Mostly It'd be nice for a new player to have a method to heal themselves. We have plenty of healing options at the higher end, but I know as a fresh baby Tenno I found the game frustrating because of how unrelenting the damage could be. 

[Air-mage]

On 2017. 09. 17. at 2:16 PM, polarity said:

Not in all cases:

• Some warframes have a high health/shields/armor to help them survive at higher levels.
• Some have strong CC abilities with a long duration and large range.
• Others have self healing, self revive, or some form of invulnerability mechanic.

Those frames do not need to rely on energy regen in order to scale into higher levels.

Frames that have none of those, and instead have to regularly cast their abilities in order to CC enemies, or to do enough damage to keep up with spawns do need more regen, and if the presently available form is removed, then those frames should have something to replace it.

but those frames are ,,balanced" around their abilities too when thei default specs were given

 

[polarity]

4 hours ago, Air-mage said:

but those frames are ,,balanced" around their abilities too when thei default specs were given

 

No, they are not.

Very few players will deny that the most recent frames, Nidus, Titania, Octavia, Harrow and Inaros are in a very strong position when looking at frame balance.  They do not need energy regen, because they can either generate all they need by themselves, or do not need any more than drops from enemies in order to keep abilities active, meaning they will be unaffected by its removal.  That leaves older frames in a much worse position, because right now, they are using that regen to compete with frames that are already stronger.
 

And one more thing, if one energy regen source is removed, then players will instead use others.  You can expect to see a lot more people going back to Synoid Simulors because of the energy return from using it.  At least with Energy Overflow we could drop it and make use of other weapons.

Edited September 24, 2017 by polarity

[LokiTheCondom]

4 hours ago, polarity said:

No, they are not.

Very few players will deny that the most recent frames, Nidus, Titania, Octavia, Harrow and Inaros are in a very strong position when looking at frame balance.  They do not need energy regen, because they can either generate all they need by themselves, or do not need any more than drops from enemies in order to keep abilities active, meaning they will be unaffected by its removal.  That leaves older frames in a much worse position, because right now, they are using that regen to compete with frames that are already stronger.
 

And one more thing, if one energy regen source is removed, then players will instead use others.  You can expect to see a lot more people going back to Synoid Simulors because of the energy return from using it.  At least with Energy Overflow we could drop it and make use of other weapons.

Pardon me for asking, but since when Titania generate energy on her own?? Ain't she like the most power hungry out of the four you listed?

[polarity]

5 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

Pardon me for asking, but since when Titania generate energy on her own?? Ain't she like the most power hungry out of the four you listed?

She's my go-to frame for a lot of sortie missions, and I can stay in razorwing for the duration of the mission, with a high strength build, with nothing more than orb drops, which is why I said "or do not need any more than drops from enemies in order to keep abilities active".
 

Edited September 24, 2017 by polarity

[LokiTheCondom]

2 minutes ago, polarity said:

She's my go-to frame for a lot of sortie missions, and I can stay in razorwing for the duration of the mission, with a high strength build, with nothing more than orb drops, which is why I said "or do not need any more than drops from enemies in order to keep abilities active".
 

I see. Do you happen to use her three other abilities often tho?

[polarity]

16 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

I see. Do you happen to use her three other abilities often tho?

No because it's a complete waste of energy and casting time using Spellbind with 2.3m radius, and Lantern with 1.2m radius, when you can tear anything in an armor sortie 3 to shreds in a matter of seconds (except bosses).

Edited September 25, 2017 by polarity

[LokiTheCondom]

When energy regen stays

[daSweep]

Yes, absolutely. People can go on and on about building for efficiency, but it doesn't matter how much your abilities cost if you don't have any energy to begin with. I've recently gotten into playing Atlas quite a bit, he's good fun if you like punching things, but he's 100% dependant on energy to work. I can max out my power strength (using Blind Rage of course), which makes me punch high level mobs to death with 2-3 punches. It feels great, but it also costs about 30 energy to do. This is what it takes to kill high level enemies with a frame like Atlas. I can't remove power strength for more efficiency because then it will take more punches, which will cost more energy anyway. I can use my Tigris Prime and just shoot them instead, but what's the point in having so many Warframes if you only use weapons to kill high level mobs either way?

Let's compare this to another frame I use quite a lot: Ash. I can equip Ash with maximum efficiency and power range, slap on his teleport augment and a covert lethality dagger and one shot any regular enemy, regardless of level, for almost no energy. Sure, it will take some energy to cast teleport, but most of that is refunded right away. So for 30 energy I can kill a high level corrupted bombard with Atlas, pucnhing him in the face, but with Ash I get that basically for free. Also while being invisible, for laughs. Atlas is immune to damage while punching stuff, which is also great, but the moment my energy is out, he's dead in the water. No punches for him.

My point is, the balance of damage and power of the different frames are so out of whack that it's impossible to say: "Eh, just mod for efficiency, pick up energy balls". Well, some frames can't kill stuff or survive without using quite a lot of energy, and if no energy balls drop then you are out of luck.

Ideally I would rather see that powers are just free, but with cooldowns instead. Nothing super major, like the first Mass Effect for example, where you pushed some enemies and then waited 30 seconds to push something else. Think more like this; all "primary powers" (the first power, punching for Atlas and shurikens for Ash for example) are free, with no cooldown. These are usually quite weak, or they define the frame too much (like it Atlas' case) that they are too dependant on energy. Powers 2 and 3 have moderate cooldowns, and the ultimate 4 ability has a bit longer cooldown. Now, I haven't taken ALL frames into account for this, it's just a thought I had right now, but it could work.

Sorry for the humomgous post, but this is an interesting subject.

[IceColdHawk]

6 hours ago, LokiTheCondom said:

When energy regen stays

You misspelled

;)

[Brorelia]

Some might call Loki the master race but I see far more groups wanting a Trinity than a Loki for more than one reason.

Trinity is the true master race

[LykanBlood]

On 9/17/2017 at 4:17 AM, DualParadox said:

Yeah, we have like broken scepter and stuff. And the problem is that players don't know how to manage their energy. :))))

exactly i rarely need actual regen beyond what i get from pickups and rage and when i do i put out an energy pizza

[Tsardova]

Unless you're building all your frames of range and strength then energy economy shouldn't be an issue to begin with, even after considering energy leeches,etc.

High strength builds can wipe mobs enough for one of the dead mobs to drop an energy orb or two. Lack of innate energy Regen makes support frames more relevant than they should be too.

 

Again, if you're good at prioritizing targets/ can balance your frames' energy to damage output/ played the game enough then energy shouldn't be that big an issue to the point innate energy Regen is a "necessity" really.

No, I'm not bashing anyone, I'm just saying this aspect is fine as it is. Just gotta get used to not mashing the power hotkeys like how ya chuck grenades in metal slug is all.

[Kimimoto]

On 9/17/2017 at 7:13 AM, krc473 said:

No. You don't really need it. Pads/energy siphon are fine. A slight buff to energy siphon would be nice (as suggested above).

- I have played hundreds more hours without energy overflow than with it. It's really not that important, just get better at resource management.

 

Until endgame, then you're wrong

[krc473]

1 hour ago, Kimimoto said:

Until endgame, then you're wrong

Define endgame?

[Kimimoto]

11 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Define endgame?

Whenever you go long enough that you can't stand still for energy pads, so like level 200+.

[krc473]

Just now, Kimimoto said:

Whenever you go long enough that you can't stand still for energy pads, so like level 200+.

Since when did you have to stand still for energy pads?

You can stick one down and run around. Or, place a couple at a time.

Or, you know, and EV trinity...

[Karaphael]

game wise I don't care but lore wise the warframes are powered by us channeling our void energy right? they are made for us to channel those energies so as long as the transference holds and we power the frames then the energy should regenerate.

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by rafiki4000

[Kimimoto]

1 hour ago, krc473 said:

Since when did you have to stand still for energy pads?

You can stick one down and run around. Or, place a couple at a time.

Or, you know, and EV trinity...

Great solution! Especially when you're not touching the ground for minutes at a time

[kyori]

Yes. We are hi-tech space ninja yet cannot regenerate health or energy