when are you nerfing condition overload? if you wont give it to the firearms as well pls.

[eXotic]

2 minutes ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

Okay, I may be missing something here, but why in the name of all 7 dwarves would anyone want anything nerfed in a non-competitive PvE game?

Please explain.

Because people need something to complain about so they can feel better about themselves.

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, lukinu_u said:

Yeah, I know but considering you rarely get over than 5 different status on the same target, your damages are "only" multiplied by 10.5 while you get 243% chance of crit x4.75 with a x4 combo, roughly equal to guaranteed x8.5 and 43% chances of 12.25% while using Blood Rush, True Steel and Organ Shatter.
It's fair considering you generally use Condition Overload + 2 elemental mods on a non-slash status weapon (so 3 mods too) and especially, considering you really rarely get 5 status, 3 or 4 in most of time, so only a x4.09 or x6.65 mutiplier.

So, the only real overpowered thing about Condition Overload if you compare it to crit weapons is the fact it can be combined with the crit mods on an hybrid weapon to get even higher numbers.

why would you limit to two status mods? and no crit weapon can get a damage multiplier of 10.5, redcrits included. if theres any, please do show me.

[NoLazyShadow]

i dont even have this mod...

[Tricky5hift]

[Emulad0or]

8 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

condition overload does one thing those other two dont. its damage buff stacks off of itself. for example, if the target has 2 status effects on it, damage buff isnt %60+%60=%120. its %156. 3 status effects? its %310. 4 status effects? its %555. it is pretty disgusting. in an ideal situation where you can somehow magically get every single status proc on a target it multiplies your damage by 281.47. 

To be fair, blood rush/ body count not only gives you the damage multiplier for the combo (1.5x, 2.0x, 2.5x...) but also gives you 165%CC for each of those multipliers. Most of the weapons can easily get orange crits out of it, some can get red crits. Most weapons have 2.0x CD, 3.8x with Organ Shatter, that is 6.6x with Orange Crit. Multiply that for the combo, (let's take the 2.0x since it's low and several weapons can already get Orange Crits there), and you have a 13.2x multiplier of your normal damage. That is an increase of 1220% over your base... And you are complaining about the 555%?

Sure, status can strip armor, making those 555% more effective than the 1220% vs heavy armored units lvl 120+, but so what? Where do you find those enemies ingame outside long survivals?
Oh, and not to mension that, the more different status you have to get those 555%, the less likely you are to proc corrosive every attack, compromising the armor striping and actually hurting you in the long run
And... this is all only about Grinner, what about Corpus? Infested? Status doesn't even put up a challenge, Crit wins by far on those cases...

TL;DR: Condition Overload and Blood Rush / Body Count are balanced already, each OP for different situation, both viable in any (save long Grinnier survivals)

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, Emulad0or said:

To be fair, blood rush/ body count not only gives you the damage multiplier for the combo (1.5x, 2.0x, 2.5x...) but also gives you 165%CC for each of those multipliers. Most of the weapons can easily get orange crits out of it, some can get red crits. Most weapons have 2.0x CD, 3.8x with Organ Shatter, that is 6.6x with Orange Crit. Multiply that for the combo, (let's take the 2.0x since it's low and several weapons can already get Orange Crits there), and you have a 13.2x multiplier of your normal damage. That is an increase of 1220% over your base... And you are complaining about the 555%?

Sure, status can strip armor, making those 555% more effective than the 1220% vs heavy armored units lvl 120+, but so what? Where do you find those enemies ingame outside long survivals?
Oh, and not to mension that, the more different status you have to get those 555%, the less likely you are to proc corrosive every attack, compromising the armor striping and actually hurting you in the long run
And... this is all only about Grinner, what about Corpus? Infested? Status doesn't even put up a challenge, Crit wins by far on those cases...

TL;DR: Condition Overload and Blood Rush / Body Count are balanced already, each OP for different situation, both viable in any (save long Grinnier survivals)

bloodrush doesnt give you combo counter. combo counter exists on every melee. 

[Emulad0or]

Just now, Zeclem said:

bloodrush doesnt give you combo counter. combo counter exists on every melee. 

 

4 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

To be fair, blood rush/ body count not only gives you...

Please, do read everything, thanks

[Zeclem]

3 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

 

Please, do read everything, thanks

i did. bloodrush only gives you more crit chance the higher your combo counter is. absolutely nothing else. it doesnt give you damage multiplier. thats combo counter. combo counter is existant on every single melee. and if you wanna talk numbers ive already posted two builds on venka prime(the wep that scales best from bloodrush cus of its passive of having higher combo counter buffs). one status with a CO, one is a crit build. go see which one deals more damage.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Zeclem

[Emulad0or]

Just now, Zeclem said:

i did. bloodrush only gives you more crit chance the higher your combo counter is. absolutely nothing else. it doesnt give you damage multiplier. thats combo counter. combo counter is existant on every single melee.

 

9 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

To be fair, blood rush/ body count not only gives you

My bad, I didn't make myself clear last time it seems...

[Zeclem]

Just now, Emulad0or said:

 

My bad, I didn't make myself clear last time it seems...

drifting contact/body count arent exclusive to bloodrush. you can use them with status builds as well. hell drifting contact adds more insult to injury by giving more status chance.

[Myscho]

In same day as Maiming strike Atterax

[TrickshotMcGee]

9 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

it doesnt give you damage multiplier.

Every time your total crit goes up by a collective 100%, your crit multipliers will increase. Having 200% crit on a weapon with a 2x multiplier actually gives you a 4x damage output. 300% = 6x multiplier. Having 3.2x (which is just an Organ Shatter) with 200% crit is 6.4x, and 300% is 9.6x mult. That's almost 1000% damage, if you didn't feel like doing the math. And crit chance stacks up to 500% total, last I checked. 

Meaning that more crit actually does give you exponentially more damage. This damage increases far past what CO gives you. The drawback is the lack of status effects, but 1000% damage was just fine before Condition Overload. Why does that suddenly not hold a candle anymore? 

Edited September 18, 2017 by TrickshotMcGee

[Emulad0or]

5 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

drifting contact/body count arent exclusive to bloodrush. you can use them with status builds as well. hell drifting contact adds more insult to injury by giving more status chance.

 

true, but taking the same 2.0x from the previous exemple, you would still be geting 1220% from Crit and only 1110% from Status (that you would need several attacks to apply every single proc to get to that 1110%). Still weaker vs enemies without armor/enemies in general up to lvl 120

[Zeclem]

3 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Every time your total crit goes up by a collective 100%, your crit multipliers will increase. Having 200% crit on a weapon with a 2x multiplier actually gives you a 4x damage output. 300% = 6x multiplier. Having 3.2x (which is just an Organ Shatter) with 200% crit is 6.4x, and 300% is 9.6x mult. That's almost 1000% damage, if you didn't feel like doing the math. And crit chance stacks up to 500% total, last I checked. 

Meaning that more crit actually goes give you exponentially more damage. This damage increases far past what CO gives you. The drawback is the lack of status effects, but 1000% damage was just fine before Condition Overload. Why does that suddenly not hold a candle anymore? 

de made it very clear when they brought orange crits in game.

@Emulad0orexcept your math is off. bloodrush gives you crit chance based on your combo counter directly. %165 x1.5 wont give you %330 crit chance. it will give you %165x(1.5) which is 247.5. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Zeclem

[Praxxor]

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

status being vastly superior to build for cus of this mod? to the point of making any other build in the game irrelevant?

 

ANY weapon can use Condition Overload, you can apply status with all your weapons AND your Warframe (Saryn is exceptionally good at this for example). You can just use a high-status weapon and use quickmelee to get that sweet-&#! damage.

[TrickshotMcGee]

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

um, no. theres no difference(damage wise) between orange crits and red crits. de made it very clear when they brought orange crits in game.

The red and orange coloring is just cosmetic. It simply marks how much crit chance you've got. The actual functions of crit chance haven't changed one bit. Every 100% increment adds bonus damage.

Look it up. Or test it yourself. 

 

They never changed the mechanics of crit. If they did, please cite for me where it was stated that crit multipliers no longer stack. It would be in patch notes and people would have flipped out about it.

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

ignore

Edited September 18, 2017 by mac10smg-ToaOfGreen

[Praxxor]

6 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

um, no. theres no difference(damage wise) between orange crits and red crits. de made it very clear when they brought orange crits in game.

Before Orange crits any crits procced above 100% would be red, they differentiated the 100%-200% zone with orange because the game's progression changed a lot. There is a HUGE difference between red and orange crits right now, about half as much as between yellow crits and orange crits.

[Zeclem]

Just now, TrickshotMcGee said:

The red and orange coloring is just cosmetic. It simply marks how much crit chance you've got. The actual functions of crit chance haven't changed one bit. Every 100% increment adds bonus damage.

Look it up. Or test it yourself. 

 

They never changed the mechanics of crit. If they did, please cite for me where it was stated that crit multipliers no longer stack. It would be in patch notes and people would have flipped out about it.

Even if you had a 10x combo (over 30 million hits) with dual arcane avenger deadly intent from naramon and a perfect 159% slide crit with maiming on scoliac you would only be at a 106.2x multiplier. is my math off here? if so, do lemme know.

its simply far quicker and easier to obtain this damage via condition overload.

[TrickshotMcGee]

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

its simply far quicker and easier to obtain this damage via condition overload.

Sorry? 

CO has a cap of, what, 600% damage? What you listed there is over 10,000% damage. 

[Zeclem]

Just now, TrickshotMcGee said:

Sorry? 

CO has a cap of, what, 600% damage? What you listed there is over 10,000% damage. 

yeah pls do show me how to obtain 30 million hits. the guy who did it, did it on 3 days. 

[Ozais]

1 hour ago, Aisu9 said:

 

 

edit : and please nerf Covert Lethality, too OP to one shot :DD

whats wrong with covert lethality  its only for daggers which i think its fine the way it is

[Emulad0or]

18 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

de made it very clear when they brought orange crits in game.

@Emulad0orexcept your math is off. bloodrush gives you crit chance based on your combo counter directly. %165 x1.5 wont give you %330 crit chance. it will give you %165x(1.5) which is 247.5. 

 

37 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

To be fair, blood rush/ body count not only gives you the damage multiplier for the combo (1.5x, 2.0x, 2.5x...) but also gives you 165%CC for each of those multipliers. Most of the weapons can easily get orange crits out of it, some can get red crits. Most weapons have 2.0x CD, 3.8x with Organ Shatter, that is 6.6x with Orange Crit. Multiply that for the combo, (let's take the 2.0x since it's low and several weapons can already get Orange Crits there), and you have a 13.2x multiplier of your normal damage. That is an increase of 1220% over your base... And you are complaining about the 555%?

Sure, status can strip armor, making those 555% more effective than the 1220% vs heavy armored units lvl 120+, but so what? Where do you find those enemies ingame outside long survivals?
Oh, and not to mension that, the more different status you have to get those 555%, the less likely you are to proc corrosive every attack, compromising the armor striping and actually hurting you in the long run
And... this is all only about Grinner, what about Corpus? Infested? Status doesn't even put up a challenge, Crit wins by far on those cases...

TL;DR: Condition Overload and Blood Rush / Body Count are balanced already, each OP for different situation, both viable in any (save long Grinnier survivals)

Did you actually read? If you did, you didn't understand me, or you don't understand how Blood Rush or how the Coumbo Counter works...

Blood Rush: With a 1.5x you get 165% Critical Chance. with 2.0x you get 330% Critical Chance, and so on.
Combo Counter: With a 1.5x you get 50% more damage, with 2.0x you get double your damage, and so on.
What I said: you are getting you Orange Crits because of the 330% Critical Chance, thanks to that (and Orgam Shatter), you are getting 6.6x Critical Damage Multiplier, and all of that is doubled thanks to the Combo Counter of 2.0x.
I'll be leaving a few links here, I suggest you read them before saying my math is wrong 
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Rush
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_2.0#Combo_Counter

[Zeclem]

Just now, Emulad0or said:

 

Did you actually read? If you did, you didn't understand me, or you don't understand how Blood Rush or how the Coumbo Counter works...

Blood Rush: With a 1.5x you get 165% Critical Chance. with 2.0x you get 330% Critical Chance, and so on.
Combo Counter: With a 1.5x you get 50% more damage, with 2.0x you get double your damage, and so on.
What I said: you are getting you Orange Crits because of the 330% Critical Chance, thanks to that (and Orgam Shatter), you are getting 6.6x Critical Damage Multiplier, and all of that is doubled thanks to the Combo Counter of 2.0x.
I'll be leaving a few links here, I suggest you read them before saying my math is wrong 
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Rush
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_2.0#Combo_Counter

combo counters bonus also goes towards CO build, so its pointless to bring it here. 

"it gives %165 for each of those multipliers". it would mean every 0.5 multiplier (since you listed every 0.5 increase) gives you %165. which is incorrect.

[TrickshotMcGee]

12 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

yeah pls do show me how to obtain 30 million hits. the guy who did it, did it on 3 days. 

Let's show you some math here. 

Jat Kusar with an Organ Shatter has a 4.8x crit multiplier. At 200% crit chance (which it reaches at the 3x combo counter while not using another crit chance mod. Add in True Steel, and it reaches 200% crit chance at the 2x melee multiplier), it gets a grand total of 9.6x crit mult, which equals 960% damage. Compare that to the 555% you listed in your earlier posts. One of those is much higher than the other. (It's NOT the 555%)

Yes, Condition Overload does it faster, but crit weapons scale far higher in raw damage output as you go further.