The new Zenurik... Just no

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Sanxxieh said:

Wait wait wait...... how can you even compare Hydroid's revisit to Limbo's revamp? Hydroid's rework was close to none while Limbo's revamp was simply great...

Hydroid in my opinion only gained some QoL changes while at the same time the charge mechanics decreased his casting speeds. The most irritating problems with him stayed, it was not a rework but some little fixing.

Limbo's rework sounded great but the afterwork basically stopped right after the hard nerf of the Catabomb and left us with Trombo the rift troll. The rework left us with a half-baked frame what was in need of many changes but was abadoned half-way.

The info i gathered about the whole focus rework already sounds like its they just remix the old focus passives without changing or fixing anything in a meaningful way.

For example the new zenurik overflow requies you to dash into an objective and it creates a bubble where you regen energy. This is basically the old energy surge with an extra step.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, Mudfam said:

Yeah, there's been whole a lot of very well reasoned arguments for why removing EO doesn't make sense (while none of the actual non imaginary problems are being looked at). I wonder why?

There's the odd case of "(by far the slowest form of) energy regen OP! Plz Nerf!" I have literally not heard a single compelling argument for EO being bad, not one single example of how it's supposedly overpowered. Really? how? What?

The one thing I've heard is how Chroma can forego modding for efficiency, or in this thread "the cost of costs of build choice cost that costs something that is not a cost..." whatever the hell that semi-philosiphical complete nonsense is supposed to mean.

So, back to planet Earth, if you're so supportive of this change, can you really not come up with an actual argument? No? Not one? Not one tiny little actual reason?

I've really tried to understand why anyone would have something against EO, and the only possible reason I can imagine is that they play some facetank-everything-I'm-so-lolz-OP-I-don'-care-about-anything-including-energy build and they want everything else to be even more underpowered by comparison out of pure spite. I mean * these noobs who want to actively use abilities and can't take a good beating, look at how gloriously OP I am!

If there's even one valid reason why EO should be removed, one comparatively overpowered tactic it allows, then please do explain, because I honestly cannot think of it, and I'm thoroughly suspicious of how not one example has been provided to date.

Ye, never heard good reasons after well recieved, toxic advantages had to go.

 

One may also argue that naramons shadow step made melee possible for people who strayed from the typical "facetank-everything-I'm-so-lolz-OP-I-don'-care-about-anything-including-energy build" strategy too but here we are, with a full fledget rework for all focus schools, including the ones the actuall majority liked. Beein forced to just use different builds or frames to cheese just like everyone else.

Edited October 2, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Mudfam]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

I never normally say this, but that is a downright lie.I have never used Energy Overflow, not once since I've been playing the game. Why don't you try not using your really bad Blind Rage + Transient Fortitude build. It only works for Nidus, and that's only after Rage.

 

24 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

It's like people don't know that Streamline and Fleeting Expertise exist, or they believe Blind Rage is a must in every build...

You guys should be happy we are getting some new way to get energy instead of just removing Energy Overload it and be done with it.

Energy Overload was never necessary. We were fine before it, we will be fine after it's gone

Obviously we are talking about very different gameplay experiences and very different frames. I'm actually wondering if you even understand that zenurik doesn't work while channeling..? What are these hypothetical blind range builds?

No one is talking about low efficiency builds, we're talking about squishy caster frames that use abilities as a standard part of gameplay in non campy missions. Mag, Nova, Volt, Saryn and many others who's strength lies in their abilities and not being naturally tanky or having the odd buff they cast to make themselves all powerful. You do build for efficiency, and you rely on QT to maybe survive 2 shots instead of just 1 at higher levels (if your energy is full), you need every little scrap of energy you can get, just to inefficiently do something that's fun and relatively underpowered.

EO allows nova to use antimatter drop once every 10 seconds (with efficiency), to carefully charge and guide an AoE that does as much as an atterax slide which can be inifinitely spammed while invincible / invisible. Volt can pick up (mind, still not carry) a shield so he doesn't get one shot from one specific direction only. Mag can use magnetise to basically do what any invincible frame with a lenz can do better. God forbid we get to use a mobility ability once a minute! This isn't exactly OP, it's comparatively weak as hell, yet some people enjoy slightly more intricate and challenging gameplay. The removal of EO completely kills these already underpowered frames and leaves them to only play utility / CC roles in cheese farming setups with the assistance of a Trinity.

Some people will use it to forego efficiency on their already disgustingly overpowered frames? Sure, I guess. Who cares? It's not like it makes any difference whatsoever anyway. Meanwhile the caster frames are getting the finger. Not everyone wants to play Mesa, Chroma, Inaros, Nidus, Octavia, Harrow and all the other naturally efficient, overpowered or channeled ability frames, there's other frames in this game, and they need an asbolute tonne of energy to function at a basic level.

[Emulad0or]

No, we are not talking about different gameplays. And whatever the frame may be, Energy Overflow is something from outside the build, outside the warframe passive and the mods you use to make your build. The problem is people wanting to spam all of their skills every single enemy they find, take your Nova Antimatter Drop as an exemple. You should use it on 2-3 enemies, you should use it in a crowd. If you use it for every enemy you see, you should run out of energy.

Just adapt, several people are living proof that this is not a necessary mechanic, no matter what frame you use, and DE agrees (otherwise they wouldn't remove it). You still have energy pizzas, energy orbs, energy siphon, arcane energise, trinity, harrow, the new zenurik... It's not like we won't have ways to get energy...

[midtarget]

10 hours ago, Mudfam said:

because Ninjas... Sit in bubbles!

Yes, ninjas are assassins, not op acrobatic supersoldiers like how media shows them

[Kurokoz]

We don't have all of the details yet.. just sayin

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

4 hours ago, Nirrel said:

Being arrogant and handing out random advise while completely ignoring the problem what is the energy economy in this game and how the new focus system would change the fluidity of the gameplay doesn't help anybody. Pls point out where did I "complain" or Serenna187 ever mentioned blind rage build.

This thread came up with some very good point what can go very wrong with what they are doing to zenurik in general and why objectivly passive energy regen would be a good idea in the long run. Nobody cares what kind of mods we should or shouldn't use in your opinion though...

 

 

I literally was not arrogant in any sense. How about you try what you were using before EO existed....

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

3 hours ago, Mudfam said:

 

Obviously we are talking about very different gameplay experiences and very different frames. I'm actually wondering if you even understand that zenurik doesn't work while channeling..? What are these hypothetical blind range builds?

No one is talking about low efficiency builds, we're talking about squishy caster frames that use abilities as a standard part of gameplay in non campy missions. Mag, Nova, Volt, Saryn and many others who's strength lies in their abilities and not being naturally tanky or having the odd buff they cast to make themselves all powerful. You do build for efficiency, and you rely on QT to maybe survive 2 shots instead of just 1 at higher levels (if your energy is full), you need every little scrap of energy you can get, just to inefficiently do something that's fun and relatively underpowered.

EO allows nova to use antimatter drop once every 10 seconds (with efficiency), to carefully charge and guide an AoE that does as much as an atterax slide which can be inifinitely spammed while invincible / invisible. Volt can pick up (mind, still not carry) a shield so he doesn't get one shot from one specific direction only. Mag can use magnetise to basically do what any invincible frame with a lenz can do better. God forbid we get to use a mobility ability once a minute! This isn't exactly OP, it's comparatively weak as hell, yet some people enjoy slightly more intricate and challenging gameplay. The removal of EO completely kills these already underpowered frames and leaves them to only play utility / CC roles in cheese farming setups with the assistance of a Trinity.

Some people will use it to forego efficiency on their already disgustingly overpowered frames? Sure, I guess. Who cares? It's not like it makes any difference whatsoever anyway. Meanwhile the caster frames are getting the finger. Not everyone wants to play Mesa, Chroma, Inaros, Nidus, Octavia, Harrow and all the other naturally efficient, overpowered or channeled ability frames, there's other frames in this game, and they need an asbolute tonne of energy to function at a basic level.

Example of a frame who's Energy you can't keep up?

[TaylorsContraction]

I'm with ya OP. There's already been a huge discussion about this in general where I brought up similar points. The only ones being hurt by this are players that use run and gun tactics without cheese set-ups. Now we get a free energy pizza bubble, and have to I guess use our operator everytime we want to create it. Fun times ahead, fun times... /s

[Tizodd]

Energy Overflow, much like Vacuum, are things that just need to be innate to frames.  They make the game's action flow so much better/smoother.

I'll never understand why [DE] makes these changes that slow the game and add nothing useful.

[Gurpgork]

4 hours ago, Emulad0or said:

It's not like we won't have ways to get energy...

That's not the point. Not a single person thinks that we won't have any way to get energy. 

The point is that Zenurik was the second weakest form of energy gain in the game (ahead of only Energy Siphon) while simultaneously being the only form of energy gain that is getting nerfed or changed in any way at all, while the infinitely more broken ways to get energy (Energy Vampire, pizzas, Rage) aren't getting any type of look or balance pass whatsoever. 

And on top of that, it was the only other way (other than Energy Siphon) to gain energy that gave us a predictable amount of energy, meaning that it's the only type of energy gain that can be meaningfully balanced around. There's no way to balance an energy economy if it's based on random drops and there are multiple in-built ways to bypass the system entirely. The only way the energy economy can be balanced is with a predictable, consistent form of energy gain. Zenurik is that predictable, consistent form of energy gain, and they're axing it. 

[Mousarchy]

so give us an inate energy regen at the very least then. Ill succeed. I still sometimes feel some peopel are over reacting slighty (but niothing new really)
but it is odd that this is a game about power and abilities and the only one without inate energy regen. so give us a 1 energy regen/sec passive. buff up siphon to be an even 1 at least. (i dont care im not budging on 6/energy regen. That still feels like a bit too much. I may be used to the old ways of no energy regen but you have to remember. "skill spamability" is how come things like nullifiers and scombas/scambles have to exist otherwise we have no weakness

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

11 hours ago, Mudfam said:

Mag, Nova, Volt, Saryn and many

Mag gains extra energy orbs from pull kills and is the only frame who can go without sentients for the same results, has design isses that cause energy starvation regardless (mainly the LoS change to greedy pull tho)

Nova is probably among the most power efficient and build friendly frames in the game if you don't spam her 24/7

Volts prime can be a top notch energy tank with his giant energy pool and quick, easy Cc on a propper strategy, outside of spamming his ult that is.

And saryn also isn't meant to spam spores 24/7 but to actually utilice her kit, take a hit or two before setting molt and the such.

 

Ain't you describing VERY specific and OP playstyles in your argument that's meant to show that there's no negatives to keeping zenurik?.. ain't you reducing feames to core functions there? Ever thought that this may be the exact reason DE includet it to the list?

 

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[BETAOPTICS]

They are experimenting with passive gains as well and who knows how effective the new bubble will be and how often and adaptable it'll be. While I quite like Energy Overflow and you really like it, the reason it and Shadow Step got reworked or removed is because they are treated as essentials, players almost always picked one of these two from Focus schools and that is neither the goal nor good for long term gameplay health and design.

I can understand being concerned that it'll be an area on ground only that is disruptive to the flow but other than that it seems as though players are afraid of change and don't want their favorites changed at all because they are already emotionally invested to this style of play. I am not entirely convinced how warranted this is though.

[Fallen_Echo]

43 minutes ago, BETAOPTICS said:

They are experimenting with passive gains as well and who knows how effective the new bubble will be and how often and adaptable it'll be. While I quite like Energy Overflow and you really like it, the reason it and Shadow Step got reworked or removed is because they are treated as essentials, players almost always picked one of these two from Focus schools and that is neither the goal nor good for long term gameplay health and design.

I can understand being concerned that it'll be an area on ground only that is disruptive to the flow but other than that it seems as though players are afraid of change and don't want their favorites changed at all because they are already emotionally invested to this style of play. I am not entirely convinced how warranted this is though.

The problem with the bubble is that it already exist. Zenurik energy surge node, which creates a circle on the ground what grants energy regen if you stand inside it the new overflow is the remake of the old surge with extra steps. Another thing is how it is applied, void dashing into a target, well im not sure about you but unless I get a button what when pressed void dashes my frame into the target it will be highly disrupting and its going to promote the "lets wait here for our energy regen" playstyle.

We are not simply afraid of losing our favorites, we are afraid of getting some over-complicated mess in place of an easy and effective to use method. Unless i play limbo i cannot wait for my frame to finish the transference animation and i cannot risk leaving it in the middle of a war.

We havent got a confirmation too on whenever they remove the cooldown system from focus or make it only have a base one. If they keep it like the current system we will only going to unlock the most efficient nodes then leave the rest in dust.

They also havent showed us what changes does the unairu the least useful school gains apart from some questionable combat sceniario.

So to sum it up, most of us already fear the worst, they gonna gut the focus system and leave us with a mangled corpse to see what can we do with it now.

[Mudfam]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Mag gains extra energy orbs from pull kills and is the only frame who can go without sentients for the same results, has design isses that cause energy starvation regardless (mainly the LoS change to greedy pull tho)

"pull kills"? Are you actually serious..?

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Nova is probably among the most power efficient and build friendly frames in the game if you don't spam her 24/7

I agree that AMD is a fairly efficient ability, but only with zenurik EO. It's one of the few abilities in the game I actually find fun to use, but if I can only use it when the game finally decides to award me with 2 energy balls... I also like to use wormhole, am I supposed to scour the whole level for 3 energy orbs so that I can finally make one portal?

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Volts prime can be a top notch energy tank with his giant energy pool and quick, easy Cc on a propper strategy, outside of spamming his ult that is

Erm, at higher levels his energy pool with QT usually won't save you from 2 consecutive shots from one of the sobek / hek / marelok / ignis. etc. wielding enemies, and you get staggered for the privilege. His ult is broken and unreliable, but I hate mass CC abilities anyway. Speed is a nice buff, but it won't leave you with energy left over to deploy any shields, which is the one good and fun ability he has. Carrying shields is entirely out of the question.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And saryn also isn't meant to spam spores 24/7 but to actually utilice her kit, take a hit or two before setting molt and the such

She doesn't even need to spam spores, but to utilise her kit you need a lot of energy. Always more than zero, which is what you have without EO.

 

These frames, except maybe saryn, need energy just as a health pool to survive more than one shot once you get to higher level content. If we don't have access to their abilities then there's no reason to use them over actually energy efficient frames who are nearly impossible to kill and still have a powerful set of abilities. Energy orbs as an only source of energy simply does not work, there have been countless times I didn't see a single orb drop before I was able to put EO up. The alternatives are just broken.

The game was balanced around regular starchart level content, when you jump into a level 100 missions the scaling is completely bonkers. Only more recent frames are actually designed to be effective and sustainable at these levels, most other frames are simply not equipped to deal with it without access to their abilities. I play specific frames because I find their abilities fun, if you just remove that from the equation then what's left? Why ever play one of these frames over the unkillable or invisible ones?

Without EO there is no energy economoy to speak of. There's orb RNG that can troll you into being nothing more than a squishy scared little thing running for cover, and there's trinity that fills you up faster than you can spam all your abilities at once. It's entirely absurd. I want to play the game normally and I want access to basic abilities.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Ain't you describing VERY specific and OP playstyles in your argument that's meant to show that there's no negatives to keeping zenurik?.. ain't you reducing feames to core functions there? Ever thought that this may be the exact reason DE includet it to the list?

Oh this is OP? Not the invicible frames, channeled abilities and absurd 100% spammable weapons we have? Not EV spam and energy pads? Not Rage? Ok.

Reducing frames their core functions? Erm, no, by removing energy you're reducing frames to their base stats, while not touching the frames who can efficiently stay invisible, the tanky rage builds, the chanelling builds with absurdly high efficiency, the frames that are just designed to be 100% self sufficient with no external energy source.

The lack of objectivity here is seriously shocking. EO is one actually balanced mechanic in a sea of insanely overpowered ones, one small equaliser for outdated squishy casters against godmode frames that just laugh their way through content. People need to seriously get some perspective and stop picking on the little guy.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Mudfam said:

Not EV spam and energy pads? Not Rage? Ok.

Reducing frames their core functions? Erm, no, by removing energy you're reducing frames to their base stats,

Not sacrificing a squad spot for a frame that does nothing else? Not by changing beyond perfect min-max builds for the sake of mentioned basestats, rage and link mods like QT? Difference isn't that you ONLY go hard on one aspect now but that you'll actually have to go ahead to find a balance between stats, energy and abilitys, that you have to leave your comfort zone to go for orbs instead of spamming abilitys in a corner, that you have to play the game and that you have to learn how to get the most outa frames how it's actually intendet to be.

[Nirrel]

17 hours ago, Emulad0or said:

It's like people don't know that Streamline and Fleeting Expertise exist, or they believe Blind Rage is a must in every build...

You guys should be happy we are getting some new way to get energy instead of just removing Energy Overload it and be done with it.

Energy Overload was never necessary. We were fine before it, we will be fine after it's gone

No, we were not, and I do remember well how did it work. Or you had Trinity on the team or you had infinite pizza supply and you could spam your abilities as you saw fit cheesing everything or if you had no access to those than you couldn't use your abilities more than twice during a mission. Nice balanced energy economy....

Mostly what ppl is saying that something like EO should be integral to the gameplay(without even a cooldown) so the rest can be balanced around it. If you have an idea how much energy you can have before entering a mission than you can start balance around it and start to rework Trinity and limit pizzas to avoid total cheese in the game. Until then with or without EO there will be the possibility for unlimited spam and cheese. Taking EO out and introducing yet another stationary energy gain mechanic the only thing they will achive is to take away build variety and the possibility to use all of the abilities your frame possess in a useful or entertaining way. Not talking about squishy frames who rely on QT to survive on lvl 100 missions.

 

15 hours ago, Emulad0or said:

No, we are not talking about different gameplays. And whatever the frame may be, Energy Overflow is something from outside the build, outside the warframe passive and the mods you use to make your build. The problem is people wanting to spam all of their skills every single enemy they find, take your Nova Antimatter Drop as an exemple. You should use it on 2-3 enemies, you should use it in a crowd. If you use it for every enemy you see, you should run out of energy.

Just adapt, several people are living proof that this is not a necessary mechanic, no matter what frame you use, and DE agrees (otherwise they wouldn't remove it). You still have energy pizzas, energy orbs, energy siphon, arcane energise, trinity, harrow, the new zenurik... It's not like we won't have ways to get energy...

In theory you have those, but in practice unless you recruit you do not have trinity or harrow, with energy siphon you can use your cheapest ability every 30 seconds once, yey! and you are stuck with a mandatory aura.  Energy balls and with that energize(not very easy to get) is total RNG, to an extent that it happened to me not to find any until halfway through the mission. The only thing that you can rely on are pizzas because you know to have them obviously if you can afford to craft them but they seriously limit your mobility.

 

13 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

I literally was not arrogant in any sense. How about you try what you were using before EO existed....

And I already expressed in very logical way (see above again), why it's not a good idea to go back how it was and continue to add energy gain badaids to the game (new zenurik) randomly without adressing the main problem that exsist in the energy economy. You can disagree with it and you can say so in a constructive way, but you, presuming to know how I build my frames and giving random advise how I should instead comes through as arrogant and doesn't help in any way.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Nirrel

[Emulad0or]

1 minute ago, Nirrel said:

(...) you could spam your abilities as you saw fit cheesing everything (...)

This is the problem right here, you just want to spam all your skills without even thinking or planning...

2 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

(...) with energy siphon you can use your cheapest ability every 30 seconds once, yey!

And this is why you are wrong about it not being about Efficiency. Usual chapest ability costs 25 energy, with Efficiency it costs only 6.25, with energy Siphon it takes only 10~ seconds to use, not 30, yey!

5 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

The only thing that you can rely on are pizzas because you know to have them obviously if you can afford to craft them but they seriously limit your mobility.

No they don't, because you can use more than 1 at a time, and because you can just get the inicial 100 energy and move on.

Btw, how did you do on yesterday's/today's sortie? We had a Energy Reduction on with high level Grineer, where Zenurik looks like Energy Siphon with the reduction on energy regeneration, only worse because you have to wait over 2min to activate it... I ask because I soloed it with a non-assimilate Nyx (a "squishy caster frame"), without Quickthinking (because it's just a waste of energy with all the stunlocks) and I was fine, just had to not spam all my skills at once, parkout to not get hit by enemies, and use chaos on crowded rooms. Didn't even need to use a pizza and never ran out of energy... So forgive me if I fail to see your point on Energy Overflow being a must on high level missions with squishy caster frames, because I certainly don't have that problem

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

1 hour ago, Nirrel said:

No, we were not, and I do remember well how did it work. Or you had Trinity on the team or you had infinite pizza supply and you could spam your abilities as you saw fit cheesing everything or if you had no access to those than you couldn't use your abilities more than twice during a mission. Nice balanced energy economy....

Mostly what ppl is saying that something like EO should be integral to the gameplay(without even a cooldown) so the rest can be balanced around it. If you have an idea how much energy you can have before entering a mission than you can start balance around it and start to rework Trinity and limit pizzas to avoid total cheese in the game. Until then with or without EO there will be the possibility for unlimited spam and cheese. Taking EO out and introducing yet another stationary energy gain mechanic the only thing they will achive is to take away build variety and the possibility to use all of the abilities your frame possess in a useful or entertaining way. Not talking about squishy frames who rely on QT to survive on lvl 100 missions.

 

In theory you have those, but in practice unless you recruit you do not have trinity or harrow, with energy siphon you can use your cheapest ability every 30 seconds once, yey! and you are stuck with a mandatory aura.  Energy balls and with that energize(not very easy to get) is total RNG, to an extent that it happened to me not to find any until halfway through the mission. The only thing that you can rely on are pizzas because you know to have them obviously if you can afford to craft them but they seriously limit your mobility.

 

And I already expressed in very logical way (see above again), why it's not a good idea to go back how it was and continue to add energy gain badaids to the game (new zenurik) randomly without adressing the main problem that exsist in the energy economy. You can disagree with it and you can say so in a constructive way, but you, presuming to know how I build my frames and giving random advise how I should instead comes through as arrogant and doesn't help in any way.

 

All of these points you made aren't good enough to say that you NEED Trinity of Harrow to keep your energy up w/o Zenurik. This only goes to show that YOU need Zenurik because you refuse to adjust your build, and while I do admit that Warframe's energy system isn't the best, more than 80% of active Warframe players do not use Zenurik's Energy Overflow. So please, once again, stop lying. We do not need Harrow or Trinity to keep are energy up, you do.

[Serenna187]

On 10/3/2017 at 1:37 PM, Emulad0or said:

This is the problem right here, you just want to spam all your skills without even thinking or planning...

And this is why you are wrong about it not being about Efficiency. Usual chapest ability costs 25 energy, with Efficiency it costs only 6.25, with energy Siphon it takes only 10~ seconds to use, not 30, yey!

No they don't, because you can use more than 1 at a time, and because you can just get the inicial 100 energy and move on.

Btw, how did you do on yesterday's/today's sortie? We had a Energy Reduction on with high level Grineer, where Zenurik looks like Energy Siphon with the reduction on energy regeneration, only worse because you have to wait over 2min to activate it... I ask because I soloed it with a non-assimilate Nyx (a "squishy caster frame"), without Quickthinking (because it's just a waste of energy with all the stunlocks) and I was fine, just had to not spam all my skills at once, parkout to not get hit by enemies, and use chaos on crowded rooms. Didn't even need to use a pizza and never ran out of energy... So forgive me if I fail to see your point on Energy Overflow being a must on high level missions with squishy caster frames, because I certainly don't have that problem

So your suggestion is..to build any and all frames with max efficiency and kill any form of build diversity?ok..

not everybody is in the position to or wants to feed an oven with polymer to make a yet another bandaid item and throw it around every mission like merchandise on a pop concert,that right here,is bad game design

you merely picked a decent frame for the job(low energy mobile defense if i recall right) that can simply breeze through as the ai is stunlocked or busy shooting eachother then sit on the terminals with less than 1 energy a sec assimilate.a void point since nyx is one of the most energy efficient frames to begin with

[Nirrel]

1 hour ago, Emulad0or said:

This is the problem right here, you just want to spam all your skills without even thinking or planning...

I'm sorry that I like to enter a mission with Nova and being able to use her 1 and 3  as well and not only her 4 all the time. Very sconsiderate on my part...

 

1 hour ago, Emulad0or said:

 

And this is why you are wrong about it not being about Efficiency. Usual chapest ability costs 25 energy, with Efficiency it costs only 6.25, with energy Siphon it takes only 10~ seconds to use, not 30, yey!

No they don't, because you can use more than 1 at a time, and because you can just get the inicial 100 energy and move on.

 

LOL, really? 6.25 ? You are talking about max efficiency build max efficiency build wich means that generally speaking probably it's not even worth anymore to cast it's so gimped. Why aren't you coming up with an example usable in game. So I enter the mission with nova and put up her one, wich is mildly useful because of it's dmg reduction, but alas I can cast it every 10 seconds it is completely useless because with only 2 particles that dmg reduction is inexsistent...BUT on the plus side, I can spam it now .....seriously?

Edited October 3, 2017 by Nirrel

[Mudfam]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Not sacrificing a squad spot for a frame that does nothing else? Not by changing beyond perfect min-max builds for the sake of mentioned basestats, rage and link mods like QT? Difference isn't that you ONLY go hard on one aspect now but that you'll actually have to go ahead to find a balance between stats, energy and abilitys, that you have to leave your comfort zone to go for orbs instead of spamming abilitys in a corner, that you have to play the game and that you have to learn how to get the most outa frames how it's actually intendet to be.

Do you even read?

My entire point from the very start is that I DON'T want to sit in a corner with a pizza or newfangled zenurik bubble. I want to stay mobile, and also use my abilities. I look for ways to play the game that are fun and still present some form of challenge, a hard balance to achieve when almost everything is disgustingly overpowered. I have zero interest in efficient farming of anything except the odd relic when a new prime has just been released.

Energy orbs just aren't an actual thing. If I can play 3 minutes straight or complete a mission without seeing a single one because of RNG then they might as well not exist.

I use all sorts builds, mostly balanced builds with a bit of everything, including efficienty. Rage is useless on squishy frames that can't heal.

I've been playing this game for years and thousands of hours, I've done absolutely everything you can possibly think to do in this game with every possible build you can imagine. Zenurik EO was the only thing ever that didn't feel uttely and completely broken, and made me actually enjoy the game again after having become disenchanted with its utterly dysfunctional mechanics.

[Serenna187]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

 more than 80% of active Warframe players do not use Zenurik's Energy Overflow

from what imaginary statistic did you fetch that number?From my near 2 years of playing the vast majority uses either zenurik or naramon for the pathetic shadowstep cheese.3rd place goes to vazarin for the instant revives followed by madurai.A whole damn lot of players also don't bother with focus to begin with

[Nirrel]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

All of these points you made aren't good enough to say that you NEED Trinity of Harrow to keep your energy up w/o Zenurik. This only goes to show that YOU need Zenurik because you refuse to adjust your build, and while I do admit that Warframe's energy system isn't the best, more than 80% of active Warframe players do not use Zenurik's Energy Overflow. So please, once again, stop lying. We do not need Harrow or Trinity to keep are energy up, you do.

That wasn't my point. And I'm pretty tired to point out again and again in my posts that it's not a question of NEED, I said it clearly in my previous posts.

BTW where did you get that info about 80% of player base not using zenurik? I thought that the problem with focus was that ppl only used zenurik or naramon with the odd player using other scools...