I'm done with fishing and PoE

[Sennera]

8 minutes ago, Dreamforger said:

I think it is the way the whole topic was presented.

The feedback is needed to fine tune the game. But the amount of "I am done here"-topics (which are far from new) are kinda silly.

I think they're justified. I'm to the point that I only want to get my first crafted Amp, but don't want to (and can't) sink hours into getting the rare fish I need, so I'm going to play another game instead until they sort it out. 

Obviously DE doesn't want to drive players away from their game, so if a person's decided not to play a game because of some issue then it's better to state it rather than stay silent and let it be. 

Don't assume that they're being melodramatic too, months ago I b----ed about weapon damage being too low on certain weapons and quit the game. I didn't come back for months, not until after they took my complaints to heart and made weapons like the Daikyu, Opticor, and secondary shotguns viable thanks to buffs.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Sennera

[BlackCoMerc]

3 minutes ago, tbeest said:

It's a nice sidemechanic. Locking the fishing trophies and maybe some cosmetics behind it seems totally fine but everything requiring rare fish parts is just insane. I thought this was a third person shooter, not a fishing-with-your-kid simulator. And, of course, the fish are tradable... C'mon DE, all these exciting modular weapons and even the basic stuff requires a ton of rare sh!t that will take days, if not weeks to farm.

Agreed.

I like fishing, but not enough to bother ever buying bait or crafting melee weapons.

Weapon crafting should have been fun, with each player building multiple experiments per week.

Instead, we get more grind, because fun has gotten list in favor of RNG gambling.

[UjaAca]

1 hour ago, RacerDelux said:

But this is ONLY if you want to do things like upgrade the AMP.

Well, exactly. He wants to upgrade his AMP, and he HAS to fish and fish and fish... That is the meaning of terrible grind: You have to do one specific tedious thing over and over again, to do that other certain thing. No other way. And remind me, what was the connection between fish and amp in the first place? :D

[Dreamforger]

9 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Fishing absolutely IS FORCED.

Currently, you CANNOT progress with PoE stuff without fishing. It is forced.

Okay

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Dreamforger said:

Okay

I mean...you are aware that pretty much all of the activities in PoE actually are gated behind fishing, right? To gain standing with the Ostron, you can trade fish for rep, but you also have to sacrifice fish parts to move up in rank.

Items which came with the expansion require fish parts to build.

Stuff for Operators, as in, one of the big things which DE advertised, requires fish parts to build.

The necessary tools to get rare fish parts, are made from common fish parts. You are literally fishing to get the parts you need to get the tools you need to get better fish, because you need their parts to get the tools to catch the best fish, just so you can improve your Operator’s gear, and the entire time, you are earning rep, to spend it on bait prints, to catch fish, to cut up, to etc, etc.

 

 

Fishing is, if anything, the single most central part of the update. The fishing is more involved and required than the bloody Eidolons.

 

 

[Sennera]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Fishing is, if anything, the single most central part of the update. The fishing is more involved and required than the bloody Eidolons.

My God I can't believe I never noticed this myself. You, my dear Sir, are absolutely bloody correct. 

[Sennera]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Fishing is, if anything, the single most central part of the update. The fishing is more involved and required than the bloody Eidolons.

My God I can't believe I never noticed this myself. You, my dear Sir, are absolutely bloody correct. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

DE should at some point realize that the best way to get players to use mechanics is to implement well-designed and enjoyable mechanics... Not twist some arms.

Fishing is simple and rewarding (actual loot aside) as it should be, without too much passivity. It is fun. A bit out of place and requiring some improvements, but fun.

And it is completely ruined by the aforementioned arm-twisting; from players resenting its necessity to more interesting fish being made unreasonably rare to fit into the intended grindwall.

Both Warframe AND fishing would benefit from isolating it into an optional minigame.

Unrelated note, what blue are you using for energy, @TheDefenestrater?

Edited October 17, 2017 by DiabolusUrsus

[Nirrel]

1 hour ago, RacerDelux said:

I understand that. Sadly the way the OP presented his "feedback" had the NEXT reply with somebody that decided to forgo Warframe due to the negativity of this post, as well as many of the others I have seen. Many of which blow some of the issues out of proportion.

Feedback is good, and I encourage it, but present it in a format that does not make other potential players not even give the update a try.

 

2 minutes ago, Zorrandor said:

I don't mind fishing and really the only downside is the non-reusable blueprints. The op paints a very tainted picture of warframe that is driving away potential new players and I feel it was written in anger and frustration rather than a true desire for proper feedback.

The OP is written very well as feedback goes. New players doesn't get turned down because of it, but because the forum is full of threads that point out how many stuff is wrong with the new update and on top of that all the new content is gated behind fishing.

11 minutes ago, Zorrandor said:

Fishing is not hard, hell it's so easy any beginner could pick it up and do it. It is not supposed to be some instant reward system. It is a progression system and as such...yes you will have to invest some time in it. But it will also change and evolve so saying this ruins the game is false information. You absolutely do NOT need to fish to enjoy PoE, you do NOT even have to kill the teralyst (sp?) but it can still be done without ever tossing that fishing spear. Please stop using feedback forums as your place to blow off steam when the game frustrates you because you are scaring off new players who might get very much enjoyment out of the game. Just because you do not does not mean they won't. Now don't get me wrong it is still a heavy time investment (currently) and mainly because of how the blueprints are. Once they adjust that it will be downright faceroll easy and then I'm sure people will complain they blew through the progression too fast like they always do. 

The feedback forums are here to express your opinion on whatever you game has to offer you. In this particular case it is fishing and everything he said is completely correct. He started with saying that the mechanic itself isn't bad but if you look at the whoole sytem is atrocious telling you why. And he is right. Defending a system like this does not help the game.

What you say though is inexact. Of course you can enter the plains and do bounties but that's all to enjoy. If you actually want to progress in any way with the new content you will HAVE to fish for hours. That is the reality. Saying that you don't need to is just ridicolous and reenters in the cathegory of false information. Who are you to estabilish what do I enjoy in this game. I do enjoy progressing though a game, get the new content and try it out and not just run mindlessly around in open space and doing a couple of bounties in several stages for 20 minutes for ridicolous rewards.

Not talking about that you are treating new players as if they had no capability to think. Reading a negative or positive post is informative. It does not scare them of. They are perfectly capable to read and think and decide for themselves. If new player reads that to obtain the new content he need to fish for hours in the game and they don't like it it's their decision. There will be others that doesn't mind, but for those who despise it it's a valid feedback.

Nobody said it's difficult to do it either. It's extremely time consuming though and requires you to do something for hours that you don't like at all and has nothing to do with how the game worked up until now. I don't care how difficult it is, in fact I love difficult content. Standing around for hours with a fishing spear to obtain the new content wasn't why I downloaded the game in the first place. It could have been a nice addition if it wasn't necessary to progress in the new content and it would have been optional. But it is not. Stop saying it is.

[BlackCoMerc]

16 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

DE should at some point realize that the best way to get players to use mechanics is to implement well-designed and enjoyable mechanics... Not twist some arms.

Fishing is simple and rewarding (actual loot aside) as it should be, without too much passivity. It is fun. A bit out of place and requiring some improvements, but fun.

And it is completely ruined by the aforementioned arm-twisting; from players resenting its necessity to more interesting fish being made unreasonably rare to fit into the intended grindwall.

Both Warframe AND fishing would benefit from isolating it into an optional minigame.

Exactly this. It should just be a fun, unnecessary little side activity.

Is DE so hard up for cash that their business model needs to insert itself into every facet of the game?

[arch111]

This is what I would prefer. 

Fishing should have an alternative way to aquire the same buildingblocks. Like standing can come from various sources, so should components.

I prefer mining over fishing. I would love to ignore the fish and go mine all day long.

It *would* be great if there were missions we could run for the fisher instead to reward us with what we need.

That would resolve this easily imo. Want to fish? Go ahead.

Want to somehow buy the ingredients instead, but maby loose standing? Go ahead.

 

As it stands, I do what I must for aw. After that? We shall see. Free roaming killing grineer is damn fun :)

[Nirrel]

32 minutes ago, Dreamforger said:

Okay

Instead of being dismissive in feeling so superior, pls point out in wich new content you can progress without fishing just for the sake to be constructive. Starting with the new frame and progressing through new weapons, gear, operatore stuff...so on.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, arch111 said:

This is what I would prefer. 

Fishing should have an alternative way to aquire the same buildingblocks. Like standing can come from various sources, so should components.

I prefer mining over fishing. I would love to ignore the fish and go mine all day long.

It *would* be great if there were missions we could run for the fisher instead to reward us with what we need.

That would resolve this easily imo. Want to fish? Go ahead.

Want to somehow buy the ingredients instead, but maby loose standing? Go ahead.

 

As it stands, I do what I must for aw. After that? We shall see. Free roaming killing grineer is damn fun :)

Free Roam SHOULD have been the focus. Just...go play. Don't fret over standing. Don't worry about progression. We will set everything up so you just go play and accumulate all you need on the process.

This is why Skyrim does so we'll despite being, mechanically, a crap game: it lets you just go play. 

DE needs to understand that Open World's are different. You can't let the business model dictate their structure. People want to be immersed in the world space. To BE there. They don't want to micromanage their time to optimize grinding while cavorting about in an open world.

This needs to change.

[WhiteCr0w]

If you knew how to properly use the bait, it wouldn't be so bad and you wouldn't be wasting so much time.

Follow this: 

 

[Zanchak]

I find it pretty rude that people (who arent having issues) are jumping into a persons FEEDBACK thread and twisting and turning said feedback into something else that satisfies their own opinions. It is very obviously a grindy wall and all the pointers in the world do nothing if RNG hates you. It is a ridiculous grind that does not fit into "Warframe". PoE in and of itself should be a "mini-game" at this point.. everything on it revolves around fishing.

[Zanchak]

33 minutes ago, arch111 said:

This is what I would prefer. 

Fishing should have an alternative way to aquire the same buildingblocks. Like standing can come from various sources, so should components.

I prefer mining over fishing. I would love to ignore the fish and go mine all day long.

It *would* be great if there were missions we could run for the fisher instead to reward us with what we need.

That would resolve this easily imo. Want to fish? Go ahead.

Want to somehow buy the ingredients instead, but maby loose standing? Go ahead.

 

As it stands, I do what I must for aw. After that? We shall see. Free roaming killing grineer is damn fun :)

You'll love how your archwing seemingly just vanishes after a mysteriously short amount of time then, when you havent been shot, crashed, landed or hit anything.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

1 hour ago, Zorrandor said:

The op paints a very tainted picture of warframe that is driving away potential new players and I feel it was written in anger and frustration rather than a true desire for proper feedback.

It's going to drive away old players, too. Like me. 

The fact that fishing was something DE thought was a good idea at all has me dismayed. If I was fighting these fish in underwater battles and looting their corpses, that would be one thing. Throwing spears at them for the benefit of the great Grindwall, that's another matter entirely. 

[TacticalOwl]

it's because people rush to finish content. Slow down, enjoy the landscape. Don't farm your azz off just because you want that sexy endgame spear prime. Grab frieends, have fun, get a bucket list of stuff to do before you choose to ditch the rest of the game :)

[BornWithTeeth]

See, I can get it. I can. Honest!

 

Steve showed people fishing on the previews, and people were super tickled at the idea. They said things like "Hah! Fishing! That's amazing, I'm gonna go catch The Big One!" So then DE made fishing into the single most central mechanic of the update (because that's what it is, guys. Fishing is by far the most central mechanic of the entire update. Eidolons are a sideshow and Bounties are optional, Plains of Eidolon is actually about fishing) and now they're looking at threads like this and they're thinking "What the hell?! We thought you wanted fishing!"

 

 

Nah, guys, People were interested in fishing as a cool, optional activity, and instead you made Plains of Eidolon into a game expansion which utterly revolves around fishing, getting better bait, better spears, better dye, more fishing locations, more fish guts, and more standing with the fish merchant. 

[BlackCoMerc]

3 minutes ago, TacticalOwl said:

it's because people rush to finish content. Slow down, enjoy the landscape. Don't farm your azz off just because you want that sexy endgame spear prime. Grab frieends, have fun, get a bucket list of stuff to do before you choose to ditch the rest of the game :)

No. It's because, once again, people are forced into game play they don't enjoy to get rewards.

This game used to drop the same mods and rewards all over the star chart. You could just go play and earn stuff.

Beginning with Drift mods, that changed. Now, every piece of new content us MANDATORY for progression. 

When you only have 1 activity that gates a piece of progression, you're burning out your own players. Driving off your own customer base.

[Sennera]

2 minutes ago, TacticalOwl said:

it's because people rush to finish content. Slow down, enjoy the landscape. Don't farm your azz off just because you want that sexy endgame spear prime. Grab frieends, have fun, get a bucket list of stuff to do before you choose to ditch the rest of the game :)

You seem confused about something. We're not talking about an endgame weapon taking hours to craft,  it's the very first Amp you're supposed to craft that requires spending an absurd amount of time playing warframe fishing rather than actually playing Warframe for the space ninja gameplay. 

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

No. It's because, once again, people are forced into game play they don't enjoy to get rewards.

This game used to drop the same mods and rewards all over the star chart. You could just go play and earn stuff.

Beginning with Drift mods, that changed. Now, every piece of new content us MANDATORY for progression. 

When you only have 1 activity that gates a piece of progression, you're burning out your own players. Driving off your own customer base.

Hey, at least Lua challenges require you to be technically good at figuring things out and using parkour. Fishing basically tests your bladder capacity.

Edited October 17, 2017 by BornWithTeeth

[MirageKnight]

In a game about being a space ninja wizard mercenary for hire, fishing shouldn't be tied to player progression (buffing Operators) and the ability to travel in a planet's atmosphere. AT ALL. Yet this is what we have.

You need to fish to use Archwings to make travelling in PoE more bearable. You need to fish to buff your Operator's Void Beam. Fish parts should have nothing to do with amplifying a psychic ability and making a high tech flight pack/system available for use in an atmosphere. A Warframe is even locked behind fishing - and not even a particularly good 'Frame either. This is just getting out of hand and it really needs to stop. 

While fishing is somewhat enjoyable, that's really not the point and it's not an adequate defense for making fishing so necessary in PoE. The point is that this should be an optional side activity for those that are interested in fishing, not an arbitrary and unrealistic requirement for fast travel using high tech, adding slightly more punch to your emo kid's hand laser, and last but not least, obtaining a questionably designed Warframe.

Hey DE, we know you REALLY want us fish. But don't tie it to travel and player progression, because it's lame, it's arbitrary, and people don't like to be strong-armed into doing unreasonable and logically unnecessary things.

And to you white knights, try-hards, apologists, etc. saying "Oh but fishing is easy, you just need to git gud and follow MY recommendations" and "Well I like fishing so I don't see an issue" are NOT valid counter-arguments.

Edited October 17, 2017 by MirageKnight

[Madotsuki]

You know what's the funniest/saddest part? Fixing this grind wouldn't even be hard or require some complete remake.

Step 1: Make bait bps reusable so the standing cost is one-off.

Step 2: Make each bait last longer (and the dyes too while we're at it), like, 1 minute per bait, 4 minutes per dye

Step 3: Heavily improve bait-related spawnrate so players are 99% guaranteed to get at least one rare fish per bait.

That's all DE has to do to make the grind reasonable. It would still be heavily time-gated and ensure players can't do everything in a week, but at least effort would be sufficiently rewarded. If we throw time into it, we know we're going to get the results we're looking for and possibly better. Any sane developer should know, just from common sense, that player time must be RESPECTED and player effort must be REWARDED in order to keep them engaged.

...Instead we have the current situation.

...Why are we spending our time on this game again?

[Azuset]

7 minutes ago, RacerDelux said:

Exactly. If you don't like a system, make a thread, state the problem, offer a solution, or seek other player's input. This thread would be so much more productive if it did that. Instead 90% of this is people agreeing with the OP or also complaining about fishing. If you want it to change, give GOOD feedback, don't just complain and state you are quitting.

GOOD Feedback: Remove fishing from the primary progression system. Make it have its own "mini" game progression. Don't do this ever again. Do not make something like fishing mandatory.  

So many people have stated this. It's not a hard leap. It was the logical thing to do in the first place. DE must be testing the waters with this fancy new progression system. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Azuset