POE farming isn't warframe.

[Shockwave-]

1 hour ago, NinthAria said:

There were a lot of things that, once upon a time, "weren't Warframe." Quests, for example. Syndicates. Melee combos--real ones. Treasure hunting. Raids. The whole point of all of those things, and the point of Plains of Eidolon, is to expand on what Warframe is.

Personally, I'm glad DE had the good sense to build the mining/fishing stuff around existing gameplay routines, i.e. aiming and shooting. There could've easily been a huge disconnect, and instead it's just the same skills from a different angle. I like it.

That's not really true. Quests still involve using your warframe (killing things, etc) so does getting syndicate rep, melee combos, raids, etc. All of them do. These things do not. This is a fundamental shift from fighting with warframes and weapons to... well... standing.  From beating up on corpus, grineer, and infested to being hunter/gatherers. This  is not really the same kind of change to the game as others. It definitely is trying to move it to a more MMORG like style in ways other updates did not.

 

 

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

The Devs have said a number of times on the streams that Tenno should feel overpowerd a bit, like a ninja god cleaving through hordes of enemies.

Lol...dev's add parts to the game that are basically the complete opposite of this by 'forcing' the use of the operator which is anything but that description....

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

Snip

Biggest issue I've found with resource farming on the plains is

1: distance needed to travel between items, considering the 'wilderness' that the plains are supposed to be it's a bit baron of the resources which should in theory be pretty abundant.

2: Mining...RNG and/or amount given for stuff is in some cases still too low compared with how much we need.... for me personally getting pyrol is a right pain, yet I can get the supposedly 'harder to get stuff' apart from nyth and sentirum pretty easily.  Getting nyth and sentirum to drop is basically farm the entire map and hope you get 1, 2 if you're lucky to drop (mines don't seem to drop many for me)...all while praying that it's when you have your smeeta buffing your drop.

3: fishing... fishing in itself isn't hard, the 'bugs' however are pretty annoying and these range from things like fish not spawning, water splashing on 'dry rocks', fish being scared off by the spear hitting the water, the bait not triggering any fish to spawn (really annoying), fish randomly despawning (supposedly this was fixed but it isn't for me) and according to some others I know the bait can be 'turned off' if you switch to a weapon to kill an enemy quickly...

Then there's Pharoma which is basically pointless, it doesn't even seem to work in my experience and you have the need for three different spears where we need to remember which one we've got active and for what fish it's best suited to so we can quickly swap between catching fish. 

And like the OP, the day/night cycle requirements of certain fish is actually really annoying... I went on earlier today because I had a little spare time and thought I'll go do some resource farming, specifically some fishing, but couldn't go after the ones I actually wanted because it was day time.  I've also had the same situation when I normally play because of the cycle not falling well for when I want to play the game.  Ideally we should have an 'always day or always night' option for farming if nothing else.

4: Wisps.... yeah don't even go there, if I'm lucky I might find 4/5 in a night's farming even following the routes etc that are supposedly optimal at night time and considering how many we actually need this turns it into a chore for me.  I can stick on all the radar stuff I can but if they're not spawning then it does nothing. 

 

Like the OP I've been wondering why we can't buy stuff with 'currency' or trade with non cetus items.... baro wants ducats for his stuff so there must be 'somewhere' that accepts it so why can't it also be a viable currency on cetus or at the very least maybe baro can start bringing additional items like wisps (at something like 5-10 ducats per wisp say) and cetus resource bundles (again not stupidly priced) when he visits

Edited November 8, 2017 by LSG501

[NinthAria]

8 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

That's not really true. Quests still involve using your warframe (killing things, etc) so does getting syndicate rep, melee combos, raids, etc. All of them do. These things do not. This is a fundamental shift from fighting with warframes and weapons to... well... standing.  From beating up on corpus, grineer, and infested to being hunter/gatherers. This  is not really the same kind of change to the game as others. It definitely is trying to move it to a more MMORG like style in ways other updates did not.

 

 

Mining and fishing are both variants on the basic aim-and-shoot mechanics that you use throughout the entire game. Just because it's slower-paced and you're not killing something doesn't mean it's a fundamental shift in gameplay.

[Fishae]

Personally speaking, while I came back because of this "big update", barely touched poe. simply cuz in comparison, catching up with main game > poe. yes, grind killing is more fun than grind fishing. surprise!

actual content aside, poe still needs a lot of tuning. eg the esc > leave squad thing people above suggested, if you are the host you screw over everyone else by doing it.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Fishae

[MarioMillionsJr]

For me, I've played a lot of games, different genres and gameplays, grind ones? Normal for me. I stopped playing warframe 4 years ago, because you literally have everything, same goes for any games I've played, you get bored when you have everything, and then, you want to play new gameplay for any new game you''ll try and then you grind, same thing happen when you have everything, you'll find new things to which interests yourself. Now I've heard WARFRAME has a big update which is the PoE. Why did I stop playing warframe? Because I always think It's all about killings and killings and killings. Ninja way huh? Well, yes PoE was a great idea to find people have fun and enjoy different gameplay aside from killing everywhere! OFC games like this it's all about "to kill". Well it's not that bad to have PoE idea, do ninjas only "to kill"? Welp no, try to read any histories of ninjas, they even catch cats and mouse and butterflies, eels in ponds, kill flies, etc. etc. etc in their training! You say, WARFRAME is only for killing? I guess for me it's not. It's quite fun to have PoE. You're not a "god" to just destroy and kill anything instantly. Ofc,you start by grinding hard, you train hard, you farm hard before you'll be like "godlike". 

PS>. sorry for my english

[ShortCat]

12 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

I get wanting to stretch out POE content and have it take a while, but farming by standing, especially cetus wisps, is ridiculous, and limiting much of that farming to a day night cycle that many people could simply miss if they log on for 1 hour a day is harsh.

While mining and fishing are marginally tolerable, and tradable (with fish and gems) wisps are not. You simply have to walk around and gather them yourself, doing nothing else.

I think PoE resource gathering is actually very well done. Side note: I am talking about the system itself (mining/fishing/whisp), not yield or related item costs.

Why you ask. Because it solves resource inflation Warframe had for years. Just think for a moment, enemies in PoE don't drop resources like fish and minerals, those are farmed in another way. The usual activity in Warframe involves killing thousands of enemies and because they don't drop fish and minerals, the player cannot passivly stockpile millions of them. This reduces resource inflation. Hema and Sibear are symptoms of this problem and those ridiculous costs is a failed attempt to solve it.

A normal player will only farm the amount needed for gear he set as next goal. Afterwards this activity will be ignored until those resources are required again. No stockpiling. Now DE can release new items with reasonable costs.

This approach can even be used in the main game. Drastically reduce or even remove resource drops from enemies, increase resource drops from lockers and containers. Now, there is no hyperinflation of resources and lockers finally have a purpose. DE even did a first step in this direction by adding dedicated resource containers.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

I disagree, if you look at the context of most missions on nodes, the places are rather confined and most of the battles are 
close quarter battles. Which confines players to play only one kind of battle context.

So most players built their frames to suit the node battles, which lose out on versatility on open field.

For new mission types to be tested POE is a great testing ground without worrying of new nodes etc.

If you look at earth or pluto missions it has a lot of cave and tunnels, which very much imitate the confined space on a ship
on a slightly larger scale.

Just face it, we are all getting used to fighting in the confined maps, so open map make people freak out because 
they need to think of new tactic for fighting, since pressing 4 at an enemy sniper beyond ability range will not kill the enemy.

[Tuccos]

Well Warframes is about making Platinum to advance and the planes do not contribute much to this.......

No platinum, no new items or pay with $$$ 

Relic´s are the only good way to make in game money

Everything in Warframe that doesnt generate Platinum in form of sell able loot  is a waste of  time...... fun or not , boring or not ..

Edited November 9, 2017 by Tuccos

[AperoBeltaTwo]

14 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

WIth POE we can now use our uber powerful warframes to:

Mine, by standing around tracing a pattern (that is buggy as all hell when it's not on a flat rock)

Fish: by standing around holding a spear to throw at fish

Stroll on the beach - in order to farm cetus wisps which you need a TON of, you literally have to spend time doing nothing but walking around the shores of lakes.

 

14 hours ago, ChargeBeam said:

Can Warframe not branch out and be something different when appropriate?

 

EDIT: Being stuck doing the same thing over and over is what kills games or at least causes immense swathes of break-taking.

And now players are stuck fishing and mining in an action game. Yohoo! 

 Well, technically, this whole thing is entirely skippable, so that's what I do. I ignore PoE like it never happened. Amps aren't needed anywhere outside Eidolon farms anyway while focus perks are mostly operator-oriented and useless as well. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

14 hours ago, peterc3 said:

DE really needs more people to tell it what is and isn't Warframe.

I assume you are being sarcastic, but the worst part is that this is probably true.^ 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Reading over the posts, i actually agree with both sides to a degree.

Warframe is an ever-evolving game that expands on what it entails, but it is also primarily a fast paced game where we are basically superior beings fighting to keep balance across the solar system through any means necessary (gruesome, bloody violence....)

I don't mind having alternate play options to change the pace of the game, as long as it's not mandatory. MMOs frequently have a crafting/gathering system that allow you to go out into the world and grab resources and create your own gear and rewards (with varying levels of benefit depending on the mmo) but it's usually an optional side step from the main method of killing and farming dungeons, etc. 

As long as actual content is not locked behind this gathering (since the Warframe grind is real, of course it would be) I don't think it would be a bad addition to the game to pass the time.

[nickelshark]

I haven't bothered with PoE much at all due to this. I play Warframe to kill stuff in cool and fun ways, not mine or fish. 

[Volinus7]

The more you value your fun gameplay the more DE can use it as a leverage for boring/annoying/bad parts of Warframe. It's the basic bait not so much different from wait gates in CandyCrush.

Warframe is a F2P that monetizes power progression speed, that's why bars/time gates/annoying optimized grinding have monetary values not your fun. Warframe is basically a bait for annoyances. 

POE farming is the true color of Warframe at its core, you just haven't noticed it until now.

[Elrond_McBong]

19 hours ago, NinthAria said:

Mining and fishing are both variants on the basic aim-and-shoot mechanics that you use throughout the entire game. Just because it's slower-paced and you're not killing something doesn't mean it's a fundamental shift in gameplay.

Yes it does.

[NinthAria]

9 minutes ago, Elrond_McBong said:

Yes it does.

Treasure hunting (e.g. syndicate medallions, resource caches) is a slow-paced, methodical routine that doesn't involve killing things; is that also "not Warframe"? How about cracking spy vaults--another area where the emphasis is on careful planning and meticulous movement instead of just shooting things? Where exactly is the cutoff here?

You can of course argue that those things still involve core gameplay routines, i.e. dispatching enemies with guns, melee, and powers--and that's true, in an indirect sense, because there's enemies along the path towards those objectives. But that's true of activities on the plains as well.

[Elrond_McBong]

8 minutes ago, NinthAria said:

Treasure hunting (e.g. syndicate medallions, resource caches) is a slow-paced, methodical routine that doesn't involve killing things; is that also "not Warframe"? How about cracking spy vaults--another area where the emphasis is on careful planning and meticulous movement instead of just shooting things? Where exactly is the cutoff here?

You can of course argue that those things still involve core gameplay routines, i.e. dispatching enemies with guns, melee, and powers--and that's true, in an indirect sense, because there's enemies along the path towards those objectives. But that's true of activities on the plains as well.

yeah cool story mate. Too bad i never talked about treasure hunting. Or about cracking spy vaults. Or about what is and what isnt warframe. Fishing and mining is a fundamental shift in gameplay. Thats not up to debate. Or are CoD and DOOM the same gameplay to you just because you can run and gun in both?

But yeah, since you are bringing it up, Spy vaults i.e. were fundamental changes in warframes gameplay when introduced as well. Doesnt mean its bad, doesnt mean its good. Just as mining or fishing isnt good or bad. Its a different aspect of the game. Deal with it.

[Kooglio]

The fishing is ok.. though day/night fishing is @(*()$ annoying when it takes a gazillion loading screen to find out if the @(*()$ map is night or dark.. because you know we just have this planet navigation thing that shows the planet from tenno ship.. and can't @(*()$ give you an accurate indication as to weather the maps on the planet will be DAY or NIGHT.. like DE thinky thinky thinky here please.

Mining.. F*** that.. .. tracing lines over a rock.. and trying to find a rock that possibly has something to using some useless scanner that doesn't even make any sense.. wtf is it using this sound sonar crap.... I'm playing a warframe in a world of advanced technology and my scanner for showing which rocks can be mined must use some bleeping sound? WTF is this dumb gameplay.. just give me giant AR arrow to the rock k thx.

And let me mine it by obliterate the rock for its minerals by using my warframe... and weapons.. not just some stupid pick I have to switch too.

Frankly I'm surprised they didn't make fishing a mechanic where you have to jump out into the squishy human operator for some peaceful fish murdering.

 

 Anyway they should get on with making more OPEN world maps for other planets.. this time with vehicles.. and more players on the actual map.  Fishing can stay, mining should get changed though, its not that mining is bad but how it was implemented is eh.. I don't care for looking for some silly color lines on a rock.

 

 

 

 

[Goodwill]

Factually, we do not know how the majority perceive Plains of Eidolon. Some will says lots find it boring, lots will say they find it as one of the best things ever added to Warframe. So you cannot use anecdotal evidence as an argument to support your side because there's an equal counter to it.

I support, and continue to support Warframe because it's a developing game. I want to see DE try new things, add new things into the game. Maybe at the end of it all, it will be something timeless. However, I do not think telling DE to do the same thing over and over again is healthy for them or the game. You're pretty much forcing them into the typical AAA mold that Battlefront, Battlefield CoD and Destiny have fallen into. Same thing over and over. People who have been on the forums for a long time know how many players were vocal about adding something new to Warframe that wasn't just get from point A to B and kill stuff in between. Now DE has done that. And some may say they've done a damn good job of it. Some will disagree.

At the end, I want DE to do DE. I prefer not to use the mentality of taking things out of a game. But rather, how to improve on it. Don't take out fishing, don't take out mining. But rather, try to discuss how to make it less intrusive. Which I think DE has already done. The materials are pretty much exclusive to and for Plains of Eidolon. It doesn't and most likely will not affect you in any other planets or nodes or missions.
 

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

5 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

The more you value your fun gameplay the more DE can use it as a leverage for boring/annoying/bad parts of Warframe. It's the basic bait not so much different from wait gates in CandyCrush.

Warframe is a F2P that monetizes power progression speed, that's why bars/time gates/annoying optimized grinding have monetary values not your fun. Warframe is basically a bait for annoyances. 

POE farming is the true color of Warframe at its core, you just haven't noticed it until now.

They absolutely didn't have to create fishing. It's a lot of work to make something this bad. They wouldn't have put it into the game if they thought this was a bad idea. 

 PoE farming isn't motivated by the progression of the main gameplay. PoE is a self-contained little hell that loops onto itself. It's not required otherwise in any other part of the game and could be skipped in its entirety. The problem is that neither fishing, nor mining have a place in this game. Not mechanically, nor thematically. Not the way those mechanics are realized. Mining could have been done better - excavation mission type is much better mining (though not without its own flaws). Fishing simply doesn't fit this game at all.

Edited November 9, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Gr1mjaw]

my only gripe about PoE is how it lacks Optimization (which should get better with hotfixes/updates), but still i can run the game at completely maxed out graphics setting everywhere else, but if i need smooth 60+FPS, zero stutter, lag free experience, i need to put all my settings to lowest.

1 Open world mission node in an entire game should not make such a massive difference. 

[JalakBali]

And?

The killing and the star map are still there. It's not like DE scrapped the rest of the game and only PoE remains. If you don't enjoy PoE, just farm to get the resources to build stuff and never set foot there again. Just like all the other game modes. I'm sure there are players who thinks "spy mission is not warframe since you don't need to kill to advance". So just do that to farm Ivara (or not, buy her from market?) and never Spy again unless it's an alert or sortie or something.

[Shockwave-]

18 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 

And now players are stuck fishing and mining in an action game. Yohoo! 

 Well, technically, this whole thing is entirely skippable, so that's what I do. I ignore PoE like it never happened. Amps aren't needed anywhere outside Eidolon farms anyway while focus perks are mostly operator-oriented and useless as well. 

I'd love to do this but have seen DE require it later too many times. An event will come with a great event weapon and it will require you to have Tier 3 amps to do well, or a new reward will be dropped in the plains and you will have wished you had farmed up all that stuff. Currently it is skippable, but I simply don't Trust DE to leave operator mode skippable.

[Shockwave-]

1 hour ago, JalakBali said:

And?

The killing and the star map are still there. It's not like DE scrapped the rest of the game and only PoE remains. If you don't enjoy PoE, just farm to get the resources to build stuff and never set foot there again. Just like all the other game modes. I'm sure there are players who thinks "spy mission is not warframe since you don't need to kill to advance". So just do that to farm Ivara (or not, buy her from market?) and never Spy again unless it's an alert or sortie or something.

But there is almost nothing you get from spy that you can't get anywhere else. With the exception of Ivara, all spy rewards come from somewhere else you can go to as well. How can one get the fish for amps without fishing? What happens when an event requires amps? what happens when a new release requires amps? or the Arcanes, etc.

 

All of the plains resources ONLY come from the plains, fishing and mining ONLY from fishing and mining (but fish are tradable, mining is not all tradable),  Ostron standing is only gained from the bountines on the plains (or fishing and mining). It is much harder to ignore this section of the game because things don't drop anywhere else. If I hate spy I never have to do it (other than Ivara). If I want say, Conidtion Overload I can do any mission type I want for it. If I want any other resources on the star map I can do a ton of missions. Cryotic is limited to excavation, but I can do any faction, etc. The plains has no options, and the resource gathering is literally not using our warframes.

[JalakBali]

39 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

But there is almost nothing you get from spy that you can't get anywhere else. With the exception of Ivara, all spy rewards come from somewhere else you can go to as well. How can one get the fish for amps without fishing? What happens when an event requires amps? what happens when a new release requires amps? or the Arcanes, etc.

 

All of the plains resources ONLY come from the plains, fishing and mining ONLY from fishing and mining (but fish are tradable, mining is not all tradable),  Ostron standing is only gained from the bountines on the plains (or fishing and mining). It is much harder to ignore this section of the game because things don't drop anywhere else. If I hate spy I never have to do it (other than Ivara). If I want say, Conidtion Overload I can do any mission type I want for it. If I want any other resources on the star map I can do a ton of missions. Cryotic is limited to excavation, but I can do any faction, etc. The plains has no options, and the resource gathering is literally not using our warframes.

You can buy resources with plat at Cetus shops.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Il y a 2 heures, Shockwave- a dit :

I'd love to do this but have seen DE require it later too many times. An event will come with a great event weapon and it will require you to have Tier 3 amps to do well, or a new reward will be dropped in the plains and you will have wished you had farmed up all that stuff. Currently it is skippable, but I simply don't Trust DE to leave operator mode skippable.

And personally I will gladly skip that event as well. Gear farming in the current build aren't rooted into the gameplay at all. It's not worth it getting every single weapon when missions barely last five minutes each and boil down to a parkour run.

Edited November 10, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo