ability to genderswap warframes

[MagPrime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)lord-dra said:

OK I get it my ideas suck can we just close this thread already

Don't take it too hard.  While we are one of the better communities, we do fall short in some aspects.  We're learning and growing though.  ^.^

Your idea isn't a bad one, it's just most aren't ready for it. 

[Rhekemi]

12 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Equinox was mentioned in a number of streams building up to its release, which is why I don't immediately know which stream the comment I'm looking for is in. 

 

Okay.

Quote

I wasn't trying to change your statements, but provide further clarity on the situation of the frame as it seemed to be during the later levels of development.

 

Noted.

Quote

After all we shouldn't pretend the DC influences much past the very early concepting, and even then DE doesn't generally stick to what it offered to any great length. 

2

True, but this was also in 2014 (I believe), when the DC had considerably more influnce than it does now. The further back you go, the clearer it is that the DC had much more influence than it does now. Especially given that older 'frames like Nova and Equinox (older than the new 'frames and DC input threads that go with them, I don't mean "one of the oldest 'frames") had DC input on abilites, while newer 'frames no longer see DC input.

Quote

but the fact the frame has a masculine and feminine form with a rather neutral middle form is not.

 

True. And both halves are still female. Masculine female and feminine female and androgynous female.

Quote

It's hard to explain that away given the situation around the frame as just coincidence.

 

Not sure I can agree here; there's nothing to explain away.

Quote

It's just a ying yang frame whose design was done while they were still tinkering with the concept of male/female forms that also just happens to have a masculine and feminine form but also isn't representing male and female?

1

Bold 1: DE was never, based on all evidence available, tinkering with the concept of male/female forms. The process, as shown by DE within the context of the DC shows what happened fairly clearly, as outlined in my first post. 

Bold 2: representation thematically? Yes, that seems evident from the conception stages that it was one of the design influences (male/female, along with several other descriptors for each half).

But representation physically? As in both halves are really male and female? No. Sorry. The skeleton underneath the 'frame's armor is still female. 

The notion that DE intended Equinox to be physically both male and female, designed the halves to be male and female, then changed their mind (for whatever reason) and simply called Equinox female with feminine and masculine forms has no basis in fact when we look at all the evidence.

Quote

DE may have ultimately rejected the idea to officially consider this frame a male/female combo, but it definitely doesn't seem like the decision reached the design of the frame. 

If she's female in official documentation (and throughout the design process as shared with the DC), and physically both halves are female, there doesn't seem to be anything to consider as male x female even unofficially.

This is sort of derailing the topic, so I'll try to bow out now. I did read your response and was hoping to find some evidence to refute what I said earlier, something to show that DE may have done what you said they did, but I can't find any from my searches (or from what you've said).

As for the topic of genderswapping 'frames, mostly people like options. I get that.

My opinion is options don't work for every game in the same way. You can't genderswap large and diverse rosters in any Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat title, for instance. There are several games with no genderswapping and no character creation options to allow players to have exactly the same roles/powers, except with a different gender.

I think that the only way it will happen is if the community demand is high enough. I don't think it is, and I don't think DE wants to do this based on everything we've learned. But if the demand was high enough? I guess then DE would have to answer the community with something that meets them halfway, or they'd outright state that it isn't going to happen. 

Until then, there's nothing wrong with discussing it civilly.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Rhekemi

[(PSN)lord-dra]

1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

Don't take it too hard.  While we are one of the better communities, we do fall short in some aspects.  We're learning and growing though.  ^.^

Your idea isn't a bad one, it's just most aren't ready for it. 

Maybe the other idea I posted will fare better well I guess it's more of a concept than a idea since I still need to come up with literally all the details

[(PSN)Carnatus]

13 hours ago, (PS4)lord-dra said:

OK I get it my ideas suck can we just close this thread already

Dude, I feel you.

You're not alone.

Also, you're not the problem.

[Wind_Blade]

A new series of skin? like deluxes? it could scorch platinum players and bring money to DE in real so why not I'm for.

[(PSN)Carnatus]

Since people just love shutting down any and all ideas with the oh so common 
"Why would DE waste their time and resources on THAT when they could do this?" response...

Players can design them- that's what TennoGen is, yeah? I mean, I'm no artist, as much as I wish I was- but it might be a fun challenge, keeping the spirit of say, Ivara, and spinning it into a more masculine (or at least androgynous) form.

[(PSN)lord-dra]

14 hours ago, Wind_Blade said:

A new series of skin? like deluxes? it could scorch platinum players and bring money to DE in real so why not I'm for.

 

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

Since people just love shutting down any and all ideas with the oh so common 
"Why would DE waste their time and resources on THAT when they could do this?" response...

Players can design them- that's what TennoGen is, yeah? I mean, I'm no artist, as much as I wish I was- but it might be a fun challenge, keeping the spirit of say, Ivara, and spinning it into a more masculine (or at least androgynous) form.

Thank u

[Autongnosis]

Le 24/1/2018 à 06:19, (PS4)lord-dra a dit :

OK I get it my ideas suck can we just close this thread already

It's not that your idea sucks, it's just that you are the last of a long list of people that posted something similar and both DE and the community have always basically said "hell nope". 

To be honest, the biggest flaw i find in the genderswap thing is that i'd much rather have them (and community content creators) work on a new frame that's the female counterpart to an existing male one (or the opposite) than have them work on a skin for a frame we already have, because to me that would be more interesting. 

They have been subtly adding counterparts to similar concepts for a long time. IE:

• Ember and Nezha as fire mages
• Valkyr and Rhino as the armoured berserker
• Volt and Mag as the electromagnetic duo
• Trinity and Oberon as the paladin/clerics
• Titania and Oberon as the king and queen of the forest

Etc. 

So about your soecific problem, there will probably be a time in the future where DE will add a female Infested frame with a different concept. Right now Saryn is probably your best bet as a female Infested. 

 

All of that said, do not be discouraged by this topic. This is probably one of the sensitive topics that people who have been on the forums longer than you know not to touch unless they want to get spanked by others. And one of the ones where people tend to reflexively say no and proceed to be the most abrasive they can about it. Though the community is mostly made of decent and nice people. Keep it up ^^

Edited January 25, 2018 by Autongnosis

[SilentMobius]

On 21/01/2018 at 12:08 AM, Cubewano said:

if you've never be given a citation, probably not. 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/750761-how-about-a-gender-swap-option-for-our-warframes/?page=3

Quote

As it stands now and has stood for a long time, the Warframes will not be re-skinned or re-rigged for the opposite gender.

That's just one of many

[Tsukinoki]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

Players can design them- that's what TennoGen is, yeah? I mean, I'm no artist, as much as I wish I was- but it might be a fun challenge, keeping the spirit of say, Ivara, and spinning it into a more masculine (or at least androgynous) form.

Problem with this though:
Tennogen artists can change the skin all they want but they can't change the model in any way.

The only model that they are allowed to change is the helmets.

So they can't make a frame more androgynous or change breast size or hip size or any of that.

They aren't allowed to modify the model and change proportions of it in any way as then DE would have to re-rig anything that is now clipping with the new model and ensure that there aren't any problems with the changed model.
This is still a lot of work for DE to do.

And even if DE allowed tennogen creators to change the model of the base body you would still need DE to accept it, which as SilenMobius just pointed out DE has stated that they won't allow warframes to be re-skinned or re-rigged for the opposite gender.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[(PSN)Carnatus]

On 1/25/2018 at 9:24 AM, Autongnosis said:

It's not that your idea sucks, it's just that you are the last of a long list of people that posted something similar and both DE and the community have always basically said "hell nope". 

To be honest, the biggest flaw i find in the genderswap thing is that i'd much rather have them (and community content creators) work on a new frame that's the female counterpart to an existing male one (or the opposite) than have them work on a skin for a frame we already have, because to me that would be more interesting. 

They have been subtly adding counterparts to similar concepts for a long time. IE:

• Ember and Nezha as fire mages
• Valkyr and Rhino as the armoured berserker
• Volt and Mag as the electromagnetic duo
• Trinity and Oberon as the paladin/clerics
• Titania and Oberon as the king and queen of the forest

Etc. 

So about your soecific problem, there will probably be a time in the future where DE will add a female Infested frame with a different concept. Right now Saryn is probably your best bet as a female Infested. 

 

All of that said, do not be discouraged by this topic. This is probably one of the sensitive topics that people who have been on the forums longer than you know not to touch unless they want to get spanked by others. And one of the ones where people tend to reflexively say no and proceed to be the most abrasive they can about it. Though the community is mostly made of decent and nice people. Keep it up ^^

If the majority of the community is made of nice and decent people, that majority is definitely the silent majority.

I'm serious, I legit quit Warframe for a year. I like to be a part of the forum community whenever I play an MMO, to be able to give feedback, ask questions etc. without dealing with all that negativity and bs.

Of course I came back. I sunk hundreds of dollars into this game, and now that I'm back I'll probably continue to do so (I already bought Mirage Prime Access)

It's genuinely enjoyable, even though it's still gltichy as heck sometimes, and few other games can hold me for as long as Warframe does.

People are gonna keep on suggesting the same feedback, because lots of people are going to want the same things. Punishing them for doing so is only going to make them feel unwelcome and ultimately want to keep silent about ANY feedback for fear of inciting people again. The forums exist for feedback, mostly.

Also, no two Warframes are the same. Ember and Nezha may both use fire to attack, but they aren't a male and female option. Same for all the others.

20 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Problem with this though:
Tennogen artists can change the skin all they want but they can't change the model in any way.

The only model that they are allowed to change is the helmets.

They aren't allowed to modify the model and change proportions of it in any way as then DE would have to re-rig anything that is now clipping with the new model and ensure that there aren't any problems with the changed model.
This is still a lot of work for DE to do.

And even if DE allowed tennogen creators to change the model of the base body you would still need DE to accept it, which as SilenMobius just pointed out DE has stated that they won't allow warframes to be re-skinned or re-rigged for the opposite gender.

DE does tend to give very definite statements like that.

Kinda unwise, really. They'd be better of saying something like "We don't see ourselves doing that anytime soon" or "We have no plans at this time."

They leave the possibilities open that way. But saying outright and matter-of-factly "We won't" locks them in. That being said, they can still change their mind in the future.

[(PSN)lord-dra]

5 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

It's not that your idea sucks, it's just that you are the last of a long list of people that posted something similar and both DE and the community have always basically said "hell nope". 

To be honest, the biggest flaw i find in the genderswap thing is that i'd much rather have them (and community content creators) work on a new frame that's the female counterpart to an existing male one (or the opposite) than have them work on a skin for a frame we already have, because to me that would be more interesting. 

They have been subtly adding counterparts to similar concepts for a long time. IE:

• Ember and Nezha as fire mages
• Valkyr and Rhino as the armoured berserker
• Volt and Mag as the electromagnetic duo
• Trinity and Oberon as the paladin/clerics
• Titania and Oberon as the king and queen of the forest

Etc. 

So about your soecific problem, there will probably be a time in the future where DE will add a female Infested frame with a different concept. Right now Saryn is probably your best bet as a female Infested. 

 

All of that said, do not be discouraged by this topic. This is probably one of the sensitive topics that people who have been on the forums longer than you know not to touch unless they want to get spanked by others. And one of the ones where people tend to reflexively say no and proceed to be the most abrasive they can about it. Though the community is mostly made of decent and nice people. Keep it up ^^

Thanks this does give me some hope for the future as for the present though there is a considerable difference between poison (saryn) and a disease (which the infested is repeatedly  referred to as)

[Autongnosis]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

Snip

I agree on most counts, save for two small details. The first being the silent majority thing, i simply think some discussions tend ti trigger people a lot more. Gender of frames is one, excalibur frame is another. Most discussions are kept relative civil, conpared to the average online communities at least. 

The second being the point about frames - i certainly agree that they are different, i never would suggest otherwise. The point was that DE has decided to go with the route of doing a male and a female (or better, various frames) with similar concepts but different execution instead of simply going the model swap way, be it for gender or anything else. It's obviously not going to help in a lot of cases (ie you want a double that hasn't come out like female nidus or female inaros, or you want to play that exact frame of another gender) but there is some gender duality trend in the game. To be hinest i'd rather campaign for DE to release other frames with that in mind, like a female spin on the Limbo, Inaros and Nidus concepts for example. 

20 hours ago, (PS4)lord-dra said:

Thanks this does give me some hope for the future as for the present though there is a considerable difference between poison (saryn) and a disease (which the infested is repeatedly  referred to as)

Ye i definitely agree. At least Saryn can be made to look infestedish tho :D Prime included. 

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, SilentMobius said:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/750761-how-about-a-gender-swap-option-for-our-warframes/?page=3

That's just one of many

"as it stands now" you take that as never? 

[Cubewano]

6 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

It's not that your idea sucks, it's just that you are the last of a long list of people that posted something similar and both DE and the community have always basically said "hell nope". 

To be honest, the biggest flaw i find in the genderswap thing is that i'd much rather have them (and community content creators) work on a new frame that's the female counterpart to an existing male one (or the opposite) than have them work on a skin for a frame we already have, because to me that would be more interesting. 

They have been subtly adding counterparts to similar concepts for a long time. IE:

• Ember and Nezha as fire mages
• Valkyr and Rhino as the armoured berserker
• Volt and Mag as the electromagnetic duo
• Trinity and Oberon as the paladin/clerics
• Titania and Oberon as the king and queen of the forest

Etc. 

So about your soecific problem, there will probably be a time in the future where DE will add a female Infested frame with a different concept. Right now Saryn is probably your best bet as a female Infested. 

 

All of that said, do not be discouraged by this topic. This is probably one of the sensitive topics that people who have been on the forums longer than you know not to touch unless they want to get spanked by others. And one of the ones where people tend to reflexively say no and proceed to be the most abrasive they can about it. Though the community is mostly made of decent and nice people. Keep it up ^^

The problem with your examples is most (or pretty much all) of these counter parts don't play alike at all, which is generally what people are looking for when they want a counterpart. Theme'ing is secondary to having them actually serve similar functions/gameplay, as one effects your experience far more. When people want a female version of a paladin, they aren't hoping for a fragile priest as the result. Or a female warrior who comes out as a rogue or assassin. 

 

That's the bit DE is missing in regards to filling alternate fields, you can't call something an alternate just because it has some particle effects that can be seen as vaguely similar to someone else on a skill or two. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Cubewano

[(PSN)Carnatus]

10 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

The problem with your examples is most (or pretty much all) of these counter parts don't play alike at all, which is generally what people are looking for when they want a counterpart. Theme'ing is secondary to having them actually serve similar functions/gameplay, as one effects your experience far more. When people want a female version of a paladin, they aren't hoping for a support priest as the result. Or a female warrior who comes out as a rogue or assassin. 

 

That's the bit DE is missing in regards to filling alternate fields, you can't call something an alternate just because it has some particle effects that can be seen as vaguely similar to someone else on a skill or two. 

That, and comparing or otherwise associating Volt with Mag is just...wrong...

Volt is actually pretty good, but Mag...is basically Meg.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 18 minutes, Cubewano a dit :

The problem with your examples is most (or pretty much all) of these counter parts don't play alike at all, which is generally what people are looking for when they want a counterpart. Theme'ing is secondary to having them actually serve similar functions/gameplay, as one effects your experience far more. When people want a female version of a paladin, they aren't hoping for a fragile priest as the result. Or a female warrior who comes out as a rogue or assassin. 

 

That's the bit DE is missing in regards to filling alternate fields, you can't call something an alternate just because it has some particle effects that can be seen as vaguely similar to someone else on a skill or two. 

On that i agree. They could have pushed some things a lot more to make it more clear and sort of thread this kind of middle way. I agree also that some of those pairs are way farther apart than they should (like Ember/Nezha and Mag/Volt for example). 

Though specifically Oberon and Trin are far more alike than you think they are tbh. Both can be tanks, can make their team into tanks, can heal and can buff damage indirectly. Oberon has CC where Trin has more heals and energy restoration. 

 

EDIT: to make my point clearer, i'm not saying DE is already doing some kind of genderswapping via different frames. I'm saying DE has tried to ship similar frames in concept that have opposite genders instead of doing that. They could be a bit closer mechanically, on that i agree, so that we could get variations on the same concept - ie it could be really fun to have a Volt female spinoff that focuses on raw damage explosions more than subtle control - but i personally like that idea more than just giving skins of different genders to frames. Then again, I like it that way. I'm not per se opposed to having also the other option. But it would probably make more sense to have it left open for Tennogen more, because of diffusing workload reasons. 

Again, if i came across as "it shouldn't happen" i apologise, that's not what i meant at all. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Autongnosis

[Rhekemi]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

Volt is actually pretty good, but Mag...is basically Meg.

 

You leave her out of this! That's not her fault, damn it! 

[SilentMobius]

2 hours ago, Cubewano said:

"as it stands now" you take that as never? 

Yep, because I don't ever seen DE slowing down Warframe design or production, and it would be a big slowdown.

Edited January 25, 2018 by SilentMobius

[Cubewano]

27 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Yep, because I don't ever seen DE slowing down Warframe design or production, and it would be a big slowdown.

so we're just throwing reading comprehension out the window i guess. k.

[UrielColtan]

On 1/20/2018 at 3:32 PM, HadronVictorioso said:

This has been asked so many times over the years, and the answers - both from the majority of the playerbase and the devs - is still no. 

The frames have backstory (despite it being obscure), and are specifically tied to the "originals" that they descended from.

No, its the answer from the devs(despite originally being the plan.), players have always wanted it though. That was also said a while ago when the game was a bit smaller and before ambitions about things like more open worlds. I recall a devstream not long ago that they might consider it for Tennogen, if they don't make their own. No guarantee though of course.

Edited January 25, 2018 by UrielColtan

[Rhekemi]

Would this be best as a strawpoll posted to the forum and subreddit? Or can someone set up a google doc poll? Should the questions be changed? I've tried to use the most neutral language while capturing the main solutions raised (in every thread since the dawn of the question), but if I forgot any, chime in now, I guess.

Quote

 

Title:
Gauging Community Interest in Genderswapped Warframes

Body 1:
A percentage of Warframe's playerbase would like genderswapped Warframes and/or skins. How might DE handle their request?

Poll Questions:
DE should let Tennogen creators design alternate-gender skins.
DE should create alternate-gender skins purchasable with platinum.
DE should not create alternate-gender skins or permit Tennogen genderswaps.
DE should create new, alternate-gender warframes with very similar powers to existing 'frames.

 

2

Also, should question 4 be on the poll at all? Might skew results. While it would be a better option than genderswaps (my opinion, of course), it's even less likely than genderswaps. It's what DE said they'd want to do instead, but it's even more work and more of a waste of time, IMO.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Rhekemi

[MagPrime]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

That, and comparing or otherwise associating Volt with Mag is just...wrong...

Volt is actually pretty good, but Mag...is basically Meg.

Hey! 

[midtarget]

No

im sick of answering this (I'm not even using proper punctuation, I'm this mad)

that would be time consuming and useless

[(PSN)Carnatus]

7 hours ago, midtarget said:

im sick of answering this (I'm not even using proper punctuation, I'm this mad)

then don't.

tf is wrong with you, getting mad about this.

take a pill.