What if DE removes damage mods ?

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

i'm sure this has been asked but i couldn't find it

what if DE removed damage mods like serration,hornet strike ect ? what will they replace that with and what do you think builds would look like after this change ?

I'm not sure if they would because that may really mess things up overall.

[(XBOX)weedyodaa]

Good thing we wouldn't have to worry about it because it isn't going to happen. :)

[Orabell]

I'd guess that's a question for the generell discussion...even thought that question is a bit nonsensical.

But as far as I know DE hasn't given a statement on what happens if they should decide to remove the mods in question...(duh)

[Zedasfogueiras]

it is kind of a backstab to add primed damage mods and then take them from the players, since some of them spent plat in trades for them... but I think they should add them outside of the weapon like a "weapon type mastery rank" where you spend endo to rank up and you can upgrade it with the prime version

[FreeWilliam]

It would be nice of the damage mods weren't superior to the elemental ones, it makes them largely mandatory, which is boring.

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

I thought i remember DE mentioning something in a dev stream awhile back about this and maybe merging mods if anything but i have my doubts they would do anything at all since this topic was just something i remember from awhile ago.

[bad4youLT]

forums will be in flames

game will see its apocalipse

and me ?

me will eat popcorn salted with my own tears from memorys of beeing demigod

Edited January 29, 2018 by bad4youLT

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

1 minute ago, bad4youLT said:

forums will be in flames

game will see its apocalipse

and me ?

me will eat popcorn salted with my own tears from memorys of beeing demigod

you are my hero lol

[Ham_Grenabe]

It's probably not going to happen, but I see basically three ways to approach it if they want to get rid of the "mandatory mod" thing. One is problematic, two fundamentally alters low-rank weapon viability. 

1. Add 1 mod slot to all weapons, so they don't have to reimburse us for Serration/Point Strike/Hornet Strike whatever we've spent time maxing or collecting. The mandatory mod is still there, but you have space for it AND a full slate of other mods.

2. Take the established percentages, and have the weapon ramp up to those levels as it ranks from 0 to 30. So for instance, Serration gives 165% damage. Replace that with a weapon gaining 5-6 percentage point increase in damage per rank, and by the end it has the full Serration boost. However, this drastically changes how one can use a weapon -- you can't get a new weapon and slap a full-rank Serration on it to get (at least) the full damage boost -- instead you have to wait.

 

(Idle riffing follows)

I suppose they could mess with innate damage boosts based on Mastery Rank. I can't quite explain this right, but if you're mastery 14 and above, then an unranked, unpotatoed rifle/bow can still get a rank 10 Serration on it -- so if they prorate an initial, innate damage boost according to the Mastery Rank, it's kinda like the limitations already imposed when you have lower initial mod capacity. Then, the weapon's damage begins to rank up level by level once you pass your current mastery rank, until it has the full benefit of the mandatory-mod boost. 

And If you potato the weapon, then the capacity is for other mods, and hey, you luck out. 

So as an example, take an MR5 player with a new, unmodded Braton. The starting capacity is 5, so they could at best add a r5 Serration right now. Instead, it would prorate the boost based on the distance from MR15 (just for easy numbers and that's where a serration would fit, fudging a bit). 

MR 5 is one-third of the way there, so the gun would have a Mastery-based damage boost of 33% of what a full-rank Serration could do -- about +55%. Once the weapon passed Rank 5, every rank would grant whatever increment is necessary to get it to +165% by Rank 30. 

[NeomanSeraph]

I'd be okay with it. I kind of like the progression system but I say that as a dude who is MR25. I remember starting out and thinking that the system was incredibly non-intuitive.

"Your weapons level up but they don't do more damage when they do. Instead I can equip more mods? So should I use the mod which increases damage across the board or the mod that increases one type of damage? The former is silver and the latter is gold so I assume option 2? What about elemental damage? How does that work? That's silver too"

I wouldn't mind them baking the damage mods into the progression. People who bought maxed Serration and what not would be in a bad place admittedly, I guess they could get credits or a Legendary Core back instead to take the sting out of it?

[(XBOX)Xeno5492]

They won't because they're not Bungie.

[Cryptix123]

They mentioned this as part of Damage 3.0 on one of their devstreams, they said that certain mods like serration or pressure point would just be baked into the weapon and so weapons will grow like frames do.

[(PSN)DocPirahna]

They should just give weapons something akin to an Exilus slot and classify Serration and it's comparable mods into that category. I don't see these getting removed any time soon. 

[Ada_Wong_SG]

1) Mandatory mods remove, market for damage mod disappears.

2) Players no longer need to buy those mods or farm them.

3) Circulation of platinum cease on aspect of damage mod

4) Less people top up to buy plat for the circulation.

5) DE earn less in the long run, causing less profit or increased deficits. 

 

I am not sure how much the market is shrinking, but taking a chunk out of a pie will make less remain.
 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG

[VGPowerlord]

Aren't damaged mods only handed out during starter missions anyway?

Personally, I still have at least one damaged mod because I've been too lazy to farm Lephantis to get a standard Equilibrium mod.

[(XBOX)D34thst41ker]

Personally, I think that the only way to make this work is to accompany it with an overhaul of enemy health and defenses to take into account the lower damage output of the weapons. If they simply remove the mods, the time needed to kill an enemy jumps to 2-3 times as long, and that's not good. Even if they implement a system where the weapons get stronger as they level up, time to kill is still extremely long  at low weapon levels.

The biggest issue I see is one of promoting interest (for lack of a better way to put it). If they remove the mods but add in scaling damage, you have the issue of a weapon not catching people's interest. In certain ways, weapons are like books: if a weapon doesn't catch my interest right out of the gate, I'm not going to be willing to devote the time and resources to unlock it's full potential. Drastically extending time to kill at early levels does a lot to kill my interest in a weapon; I'm much more liable to simply level the item with Spy missions (where I don't have to use the weapon at all), then sell it. The only way I can see to avoid this is to simply rebalance the entire game around not having the mods at all.

That's my take, anyway. I don't design games for a living, so I may be missing something that mitigates my concerns.

[TARINunit9]

16 hours ago, (PS4)SlyFox5679 said:

what will they replace that with and what do you think builds would look like after this change ?

The plan a year ago was to make the weapon just gain the bonus it would have gotten from Serration as it leveled up. Considering DE thinks Blood Rush is completely balanced yet is unwilling to make Vacuum a free passive (instead of a mod that takes up Capacity points as it is now) I'm not surprised they randomly decided this was too much power creep

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

On 1/29/2018 at 9:50 PM, Ada_Wong_SG said:

1) Mandatory mods remove, market for damage mod disappears.

2) Players no longer need to buy those mods or farm them.

3) Circulation of platinum cease on aspect of damage mod

4) Less people top up to buy plat for the circulation.

5) DE earn less in the long run, causing less profit or increased deficits. 

 

I am not sure how much the market is shrinking, but taking a chunk out of a pie will make less remain.
 

well i kinda figured the way so many players are with the supposed value of prime stuff could be why the economy has been tanking so badly on the game.

and when you put it that way loss of damage mods would just make matters worse.

[MechaTails]

On 1/29/2018 at 11:56 PM, (Xbox One)D34thst41ker said:

Personally, I think that the only way to make this work is to accompany it with an overhaul of enemy health and defenses to take into account the lower damage output of the weapons.

Yes, however, no drastic changes will ever be made because DE knows the overwhelming majority of the players want the current cruddy mod system that offers very little build variety. Players just like seeing huge useless overkill numbers, they don't want the hassle of throwing bothersome "cards" on there as I see them called in Region chat lol. This system sells and it sells well.

There's no reason for DE to rock the yacht with silly things like robust modding.

I'm not being snarky, it's just the truth. I'm one of the players who would like to see the game torn down and rebuilt, because I'm interested in interesting games, not a bunch of flashy content we never use or clones of other games.

=============

And regarding the economy crashing or whatever: No. Players will simply move on to buying and selling whatever the new meta mods are. Business as usual.

Edited February 1, 2018 by MechaTails

[Ada_Wong_SG]

2 hours ago, (PS4)SlyFox5679 said:

well i kinda figured the way so many players are with the supposed value of prime stuff could be why the economy has been tanking so badly on the game.

and when you put it that way loss of damage mods would just make matters worse.

There are permanent expenditure, for example slots and rushing, 
If everyone has the patience to wait and not rush items, we still have the inevitable slot purchases.

This might be the main motivating factor of why there is profit mark-up in the prime item market.
As well as general economy.

As of when I am replying this post, on warframe.market 

 

Maxed Serration

60p - 300p
average of 180p

 

Maxed Hornet Strike

100p - 300p,
average of 200p.

 

Maxed Pressure Point

4p - 50p, it has the least rank to fuse
average of 27p.

Taking all that out of circulation will definitely have impact on the economy, as well as affecting the income of players 
who are fusing maxed damage mod to try selling.
 

I wouldn't say that this is not a big share of the market due to the low trading value, remember 
it is more likely people will spend on a $2 coffee than a $200 gadget.

100 person buying $2 coffee is more likely than 1 person buying a $200 gadget.
low value trade are highly affordable, and people can earn little by little.

 

Now as much as a player not wishing to spend money on a game, I do understand that DE need funding 
to keep operational, that in the event DE cease to function or have to shut down server, all our play data will be lost.
In this perspective players should be the biggest share holders,

since if anything happen to the company it is the players who suffer most.

 

Off Topic

As a counter mentality of players who doesn't want to spend a dime on this game, face it,

if you spend 20 hours farming for a set of primed Warframe that has a market value of $10,

while your day job payout might be  $10 a hour,

in that time frame you spent in warframe farming those item, you could have easily earned $200
and topping up to buy would be easier since you "farm" actual money in your day job.

 

This principle of farm efficiency might also be applicable to Harrow, Octavia, Ivara, seriously 
doing all the run to get those parts might take you longer than if you could just farm primed parts 
and sell them for plats and buying them straight off the market section.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG

[MrInubis]

That topic came out a few times already and its not likely to happen. Market is 1 thing but there is also the feeling of progress and thats even more important. Just think about it, our first month or 2 revolved around getting and maxing those essential mods.It would suck to have all this investment just taken away. There is also the problem with the amount of mandatory mods, you remove 1 mod so something else will take its place and in the end nothing will change. The only solution ive found was to lock some mod combinations so mods wont be mandatory but will give you a choice. Lets say you wont be able to combine generic dmg and IPS mods with elementals so you will have to chose between lower dmg elemental build or pure high dmg IPS setups. This way you wont destroy players investment and remove the need to use certain mods. This would however hit our dmg output very hard so enemy scaling would also have to be adjusted. Its not an easy task and im not sure DE would be willing to even try.

Edited February 1, 2018 by kuciol