August 6Th: Communtiy Hot Topics

[FlanShark]

Why do you think those mission types are not popular? You made endless defence the only ingame option to gain Void keys.

critical point right here

[Froh]

critical point right here

 

Not only that, but it's also the only way to get some mods reliably.

Didn't see one thunderbolt in 500 hours of play outside of thoses defenses.

I mean. Not one. At all.

The rarest mods are far too rare for the "common" player.

[Niryco]

There should be a type of stat, that doesn't deal direct damage but can still kill enemies. It is hard to think of one but it is the main factor to most builds because damage is the most essential to all builds, sadly there is hardly any other types than damage.

 

One way as i suggested for melee would be melee style, either cards or through a skill tree system or having melee combo techniques for players to select to grant themselves more control over their builds.

 

Also i have to say that most players, if not 99% of us work for rewards. There is no reason to play missions like raid, rescue or spy when they grant the least rewards when compared to defense or void and boss missions because they are necessary. Unless there is a separate way to reward players to play those mission, they will stay the least played no matter how their objectives change. It is indeed sad to say this, we are mostly like animals. Alot of us here will try to deny this, but the amount of xini runs, kappa runs, void runs or boss runs clearly signal that no matter how much we choose to ignore it, we will never break it unless the rewards justify the effort.

[GTG3000]

Not only that, but it's also the only way to get some mods reliably.

Didn't see one thunderbolt in 500 hours of play outside of thoses defenses.

I mean. Not one. At all.

The rarest mods are far too rare for the "common" player.

 

That's RNG for you. Half the game is based entirely on "oops, you're not lucky enough to get what you want, try again". Surely, players quickly find ways to try again quicker than most missions would allow. Running a few defences to wave 10 is faster and easier than running a Raid, not to mention that raid doesn't give keys and has much smaller amount of enemies, so you'll have less rolls on " do I get this mod I need".

[TargetDummy]

That's RNG for you. Half the game is based entirely on "oops, you're not lucky enough to get what you want, try again". 

Nope. Some mods realy can be obtained only as reward from endless defence or as "gift" from buying plat. Thunderbolt is one of them.

[Troublechutor]

Regarding armor scaling working as intended, I am shocked to hear that the late-late game is intended to be virtually impossible to reach without a specific set of gear, and yet they also want to encourage diversity of player experience because diversity = $$$ under the format for the game as it stands.

 

Mastery is gained by leveling lots of weapons and frames, this encourages (not requires) players to buy slots and afinitiy boosters to access late-game tech options.

 

If the best weapons for late game use are the armor ignoring one + Ogris, this doesn't actually do a good job of encouraging anything other than holding onto a core frame and weapons and just cycle through the rest for mastery as time allows.

 

It's in DE's interest to diversify the armory of late-late game content so that there is a desire to hold onto different weapons/frames and not just sell them and cycle to the next.

 

I just sold my beloved Paris because Dread finally dropped and I knew I'd never NEED a paris again.  This model should be scrapped so that players don't do what I did... and rewarded large, fully leveled arsenal's over core do-it-all-items.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Troublechutor

[GTG3000]

Nope. Some mods realy can be obtained only as reward from endless defence or as "gift" from buying plat. Thunderbolt is one of them.

 

Really? Didn't know that, sorry. Well, that really makes it a headscratcher - why would I ever prefer defence to other types, if I already had all fun I wanted with my current gear?

[jwya]

it seems to me like they already have planned OP weapons such as HEK,SUPRA,PARIS PRIME,OGRIS,DESPAIR,KUNAI,ORTHOS,ORTHOSPRIME,either the weapons are getting way to overpowered or they plan on making better weapons in the future its a mystery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you ask for weapons,everywhere you go, people are all going "I'm not saying you should use gorgon/boltor/etc, but you should use gorgon/boltor/etc".

And while I'm having doubts on whether de can effectively balance difficulty scaling and weapon balancing, at least DE has acknowledged the issue that there are gross weapon inequalities. So while I would support the great weapon buff for the selfish reason of getting more bang for the bucks I spent on grakata, there still will likely be weapon differences after the weapon balancing, so I'd have to just sit, hope and wait...

"all weapons are equal" -mk1-major

"but some weapons are more equal than others" -gorgon-apoleon

Edited August 8, 2013 by jwya

[Turtleshellon]

I'm glad Trinity is getting buffed, such a bad Frame ATM. Trinity should be one of those silent OP frames that the common person looks over and pro players love. Sadly she is just a waste of space. Hopefully they will turn her into a survival/team survival frame. 

[Taranis49]

When you ask for weapons,everywhere you go, people are all going "I'm not saying you should use gorgon/boltor/etc, but you should use gorgon/boltor/etc".

And while I'm having doubts on whether de can effectively balance difficulty scaling and weapon balancing, at least DE has acknowledged the issue that there are gross weapon inequalities. So while I would support the great weapon buff for the selfish reason of getting more bang for the bucks I spent on grakata, there still will likely be weapon differences after the weapon balancing, so I'd have to just sit, hope and wait...

"all weapons are equal" -mk1-major

"but some weapons are more equal than others" -gorgon-apoleon

 

Hell, it's worse than that - even a number of the so-called "OP" weapons (which rarely actually are) lose viability in the current "end-game" in high-level defense missions such as T3 Void where the mobs hit level 130+ by the final waves; at that point, even a well-modded Ogris starts to show its age due to the effect of enemy armor - by level 100, the damage they're taking from non-AP sources is effectively reduced by over 90%.

 

The only reason shotguns manage to cling to viability at that point is the fact that Accelerated Blast + Flechette allow them deal more AP damage than normal damage.

 

Balancing the weapons with challenge isn't that difficult, it simply means placing a hard cap on the damage reduction provided by enemy armor. If someone's using Acrid or one of the thrown sidearms for example, they're not going to notice much of a difference since those weapons don't have to deal with the armor absurdity as-is, while all of the other weapons become a good deal more viable.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Taranis49

[[DE]Rebecca]

Regarding armor scaling working as intended, I am shocked to hear that the late-late game is intended to be virtually impossible to reach without a specific set of gear,...

 

Very valid point and being discussed, I suspect I should add "being discussed" to the OT!

[Phatose]

Wait, you're gonna buff Trinity?

 

But she's already awesome.  Aside from being the solo queen, in groups Energy Vampire is unbelievably powerful, letting the 4 spammers keep rolling all day long.

 

Such an odd community.  Energy is so important they'll insist Energy Siphon is a must on everyone, but give them a frame that can give back 150 energy for nailing something with an ultimate, and they'll call her useless.

[J-Pax]

I'll just leave this here....

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/91980-armour-suggestion-on-enemies/

 

 

Bit of a read, but.....maybe it'll work.

[Ob1Kn00b]

5) Armor (Scalability and Difficulty)

Several great posts have emerged that tackle “Armor” and its effectiveness at high levels and how this affects players options when facing high level enemies. This conversation boils down to what kind of changes will Armor undergo, if any? The answer is that Armor is currently working as intended and is unlikely to change, Edit: but now being discussed.

 

 

 

You know, I really have to thank you for this.  It's so rare, after all, for a company to say "no, really, don't give us any more money!"  :|

[Yurinaga]

7) Continued Warframe Buff

Trinity and Ember are currently on Scott’s list to be buffed. Mag, Rhino, and Volt got a brush up in 8.3 and are still being reviewed. The rest of the bunch will eventually be addressed as well, so if you don’t see “insert Warframe here” now, the time for review will come. Baby steps!

 

So I suppose that means I'll have to give my Frost the cold shoulder and leave my Frost Prime unclaimed in the Foundry for another month or so while I wait for Ice Wave, Avalanche and especially Freeze to be buffed beyond the energy wasters they currently are. And incidentally, why did his profile video go up in his current state? I know it can/will be updated later but nevertheless it is rather telling, particularly in the Avalanche demonstration where that one Corpus Tech survives and carries on shooting like nothing happened.

[Ob1Kn00b]

So I suppose that means I'll have to give my Frost the cold shoulder and leave my Frost Prime unclaimed in the Foundry for another month or so while I wait for Ice Wave, Avalanche and especially Freeze to be buffed beyond the energy wasters they currently are. And incidentally, why did his profile video go up in his current state? I know it can/will be updated later but nevertheless it is rather telling, particularly in the Avalanche demonstration where that one Corpus Tech survives and carries on shooting like nothing happened.

 

You're really going to let that sexy, sexy Frost Prime languish while one of its powers is an i-win button?

[Yurinaga]

You're really going to let that sexy, sexy Frost Prime languish while one of its powers is an i-win button?

 

It's more to do with his ultimate currently being little more than an I-make-you-briefly-forget-what-you-came-in-here-for button. And it was only after I stopped using Frost in frustration that I finally acquired the Prime systems blueprint, such is the sense of humour of the RNG god.

[Casardis]

Wait, you're gonna buff Trinity?

 

But she's already awesome.  Aside from being the solo queen, in groups Energy Vampire is unbelievably powerful, letting the 4 spammers keep rolling all day long.

 

Such an odd community.  Energy is so important they'll insist Energy Siphon is a must on everyone, but give them a frame that can give back 150 energy for nailing something with an ultimate, and they'll call her useless.

 

I'm not sure if it's necessarily a buff, but more like a change that may be coming (which ultimately may buff her). I'm thinking they will look at how Well of Life and Energy Vampire works.

 

Maybe they will do something like Rhino: fusing two powers together, altering it a bit, and make a new additional skill to replace Well of Life.

 

[direcyphre]

The interesting counterpoint to the armor scaling argument is that it really wouldn't matter what they changed about it. Armor scales, this we know, and the chief complaint is that it gets really high in those later levels, when enemies are well beyond level 100. Let's say they change armor scaling to not be so 'harsh' with more of a flat increase across the board instead of that steep upward curve as indicated by the graph posted earlier. All that would change is people complaining about armor scaling or health when enemies are level 300 instead of 150 in later waves of defense. There needs to be a different solution to this problem, mostly relating to end-game content. Armor scaling doesn't really sound like the answer.

 

Ultimately, armor scaling is only a complaint in endless defense, where enemies get higher and higher. Regular missions on any other planet have static levels so there isn't much to worry about if you happen to bring a weapon that isn't armor ignore. Don't get me wrong, armor scaling could be tweaked, but I'm fairly certain that won't improve the end-game dramatically.

[Boatsniper]

 

Do you see where this is going...

[NoDisco]

Is there any chance to see prime burston?

[Casardis]

Is there any chance to see prime burston?

Burston is a Grineer weapon, so it's highly unlikely. We'll probably see Prime Bolto or some other existing Tenno weapon in the future.

[Ob1Kn00b]

Ultimately, armor scaling is only a complaint in endless defense, where enemies get higher and higher. Regular missions on any other planet have static levels so there isn't much to worry about if you happen to bring a weapon that isn't armor ignore. Don't get me wrong, armor scaling could be tweaked, but I'm fairly certain that won't improve the end-game dramatically.

 

 

You say that, but it's pretty damned annoying to have to empty a clip into someone's weak point to potentially kill them.

[Ob1Kn00b]

 

Do you see where this is going...

 

In all fairness, several of the vaunted "differences of kind" that this vid extols are godawful too-long cutscenes, or even more godawful overdone QTEs.

[Lukedu_]

Every time I come to this forum I look at my Disciple Badge and die a little on the inside.