Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Teshin_Dax]

Sorry to bring this old Topic up here..

But im waiting for Radial Javelin Changes.. waited for a long time..
It is not even Star Chart-viable.. 

Any news on this once powerful excalibur ability?

[-Shavo-]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Vogue:

You said some posts above that Ember was used for her CC, so what is, is she or not? She does nothing to Bombards because fire damage is irrelevant against them, use the right frames for the right enemies, this is why you are allowed to have every frame in the game.

 

Do people event try to adjust their warframes and weapons anymore? they give us the tools to do the content, just use them, stop playing one warframe because it can do it all.

you said that the doubled damage is a buff for her and that this justifies the nerfs. I only showed you that you are wrong. They double nerfed the CC build and will make it unplayable and damage was never an option (that was what i tryed to show you). So how would you play Ember if you are mostly playing lategame? Even in low level she will have now hard times competing with other frames.

And by the way: I play several Warframes depending on the situation, just discussing the overnerf for Ember.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Yamichi

[Teshin_Dax]

deleted (double post)

Edited February 2, 2018 by Teshin_Dax

[PR1D3]

I just read the changes coming to Mag, and honestly I feel like I'm in the minority of actually liking the changes to Mag. The changes to the shards emited by Polarize is nice and will further amplify the damage of Magnetized, looking forward to that. Crush is kind of so-so. The shield restoration could help with group support play, but I do suspect that it could be limited. I do see the potiental for it to be sort of a instant panic save everyone by instantly giving back shields, but you could make an argument where you could question why you would use this over Polarize. Yes, you get the cc of Crush but I would guess that they would have to stay within the range of the Crush to have the restoration effect. Where Polarize behaves like Molecular Prime, is one-handed action, and is cheaper to cast. The whole Support / CC ult, I understand what you're going for on Mag, but I would look like most of the time if you ever needed that instant shield restore Polarize would generally be that better option.

 

Now the thing I would like more from a Mag touch up are further tweaks towards the Shards Mag makes. As it stands the Shards only have a use for her 2nd ability (im not counting the 3rd, due to it only making it, that's it). I find it odd that when it came to Atlus' rework there's a lot of synergy with the rubble he creates with his abilities. It has a purpose throughout his kit, where as Mag's extra resource she creates with an ability only has a use with one ability. Why not do the same with her, where most of her abilities do something with the shards created by Polarize?

For example:

-Having the ability to pull AND push shards with her 1

With Hydroid's and Gara's 1 ability, you shown its possible that you could set it where an ability changes if you hold down the ability button. Would it be possible to make it to where not only would using the basic pull pull shard to Mag but hold it down to push/throw/repel shards and enemies? It would make it to where you could pull stray shards to Magnetized bubbles. Or something even crazier, the ability to magnetize the shards to you to maybe boost your defenses or storing them to eventually shoot them, like a shotgun spread, back at enemies to damage, knockdown, blow back, and/or throw shards into bubbles to make them stronger.

-Crush sucking up shards 

Having those same shards magnifying the damage of crush and maybe embedding themselves into enemies to debilitate their movements when they get up. Having various metal shards in their legs.

-Passive also pulling and magnetizing shards to Mag

Kind of self explanatory. You could do this instead of using energy with pull to grab them.

 

These are just my suggestions but i feel that these would make Mag super great. She great now but this would make it to where there's more synergy between her abilities and having a similar state like Atlus where the special resource they create is used for their abilities. 

[(PSN)neuronus20]

I like everything so far but i think you could add few more changes:

Atlas

• Tectonics- make it's size be affected by power range
• Rumblers- because they are not that strong on higher level missions give them like 30% chance to petrify enemys when they hit them

Chroma

• Spectral Scream- increase base range and it would be perfect

That's pretty much it for warframes that was mentioned here but there still are some abilities that need some love like projectile based abilities (Frost's Freeze, Ember's Fire Ball or even Nekros's Soul Punch) The main idea behind this is to make those abilities chargeable. When you charge this attack it will have increased damage and diffrent effect, for example, when Nekros's Soul Punch is charged it will create a shadow like his 4 does if enemy die after getting hit.

 

That will be all from me. I enjoyed (almost) all of your reworks so far so please keep up the good work :)

PS. Sorry for my bad english.

 

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

I Highly Highly doubt the damage buff will be enough to justify the range nerf. At least with her 4 on high levels its a decent crowd control with max range and augment. Usually in warframe where its just a mob type shooter, weapons and warfames that are decent but can kill en masse gets nerfed and the only safe option is for them to be cc, like loki, vauban and nyx. Im not sure there are any decent dps frames out there that arent gonna be nerfed except excalibur with the chromatic blade but maybe its gonna get "reworked" too after banshee's.

[Vogue]

1 minute ago, Autongnosis said:

To be honest i like all of the changes save for two things:

The Ember change seems really uninspired. I don't know how to solve the problem but less range for more damage is not what she needed at all imo. The nerf for too fast clearance is somewhat justified but maybe there should be something else coming as well, some help for survivability maybe? Some kit sinergy other than damage, damage and more damage where WoF does more than any of them at a more efficient rate... 

The other is Mag's Crush change which imo chwnges nothing about the ability and also steps on the toes of Polarise's augment. 

 

Other than those the rest looks really interesting and I'm looking forward to trying it ingame.

 

hmm I think what makes people worry the most is that shorter range for higher damage means that she will need to be rather close or better, in the same area, as the enemies without dying to be able to kill them.

 

What if once her WoF  reaches its max potential it starts doing intervals of fire burst, which will knockdown enemies around her every # intervals? that way she has a chance to survive at close quarters and still be vulnerable to hits as the next pulse is going off (/brainstorming...)

[Metagross10048]

This is ridiculous

[Teshin_Dax]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Yamichi:

you said that the doubled damage is a buff for her and that this justifies the nerfs. I only showed you that you are wrong. They double nerfed the CC build and will make it unplayable and damage was never an option (that was what i tryed to show you). So how would you play Ember if you are mostly playing lategame? Even in low level she will have now hard times competing with other frames.

Yes.. and Fire vs Armor.. well not really a point unless your weapon strips the armor off.. But in this case.. the weapon alone would be the true dmg source.. not the ability

[ADDgamer45]

2 minutes ago, MunsuLight said:

I dont even think the changes gonna change something for Early game.. The worst thing that could happen is when your range become too low.. Untoggle.. Retoggle it.. and Bam.. You are at the same point.. 

But that change is litterally killing her endgame.. 

@[DE]Connor

Let's try to play ember against your eidolons or anything over level 50. Oh wait might as well be non existent. If you are going to nerf ember to low level missions just make her a starter frame choice. Then at least there will be a reason for her to be so bad.

[TheRealBiofex]

Please stop killing warframes aka Ember theres no need for change

[-Shavo-]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Vogue:

 

hmm I think what makes people worry the most is that shorter range for higher damage means that she will need to be rather close or better, in the same area, as the enemies without dying to be able to kill them.

 

What if once her WoF  reaches its max potential it starts doing intervals of fire burst, which will knockdown enemies around her every # intervals? that way she has a chance to survive at close quarters and still be vulnerable to hits as the next pulse is going off (/brainstorming...)

Embers WoF: Range 15 m. At full stacks this would lead to 7.5 m (unmodded) even with Stretch this will lead to 11 m. Even a Orthos has more range with Primed Reach...

[No_Quarter]

22 minutes ago, Synikal said:

He's not saying buff Chroma more... He's saying buff weak content rather than nerfing stronger content down to the weaker level. Use some common sense, please.

 

Also, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would MUCH rather have an Ember on my team than a Limbo. Hell, I'd take 3 Embers over 1 Limbo.

use reading when you can, I said later on that if they keep the Chroma unintentionally overbuffed they have to buff others, and if they buff them they have to buff enemies which is stupid as you only end up working with huge numbers - goal is to have certain relations.

So in this case, buffing Eidolon would rip other warframes, and that woul dbe stupid, but your answer is to buff, sure, let's buff everything and what we get at the end?  2 hour duration abilities that do 98 zillions of damage and enemies with  with quadrillions of armor.... that is what you are suggesting as game would have to have same relations and things would only be done larger numbers that are beyond ability for most people to do quick math with them.

so nerfing Chroma to put him in line is the same as buffing everything else, in terms of gameplay it is perfectly the same as you would get same combat effectiveness, this way you are also having it described with readable numbers. Not many people know math, it's sad how loud are those people

[Teshin_Dax]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb ADDgamer45:

@[DE]Connor

Let's try to play ember against your eidolons or anything over level 50. Oh wait might as well be non existent. If you are going to nerf ember to low level missions just make her a starter frame choice. Then at least there will be a reason for her to be so bad.

the accelerant augment makes her an endgame frame

[Akula_Rose]

I have a question. Why would you want us to ever get close to enemies with ember in high lvl? She can't take a hit to save her life. To be honest I haven't gotten really annoyed at this game in a while, but this change makes it look like I'll have to reforma my ember prime all over again b/c I'm not dealing with the horrible rng in farming her again. How about a rework on her powers to actually make her tankier? I'd prefer her powers to synergize more with her weapons and make her more of a bruiser than making her have to get close to enemies that will one shot her.That nullifier isn't going to care about the increased damage. Nor is that charger that is buffed by an ancient. I'll stick to valkyr if I want to kill things b/c melees are really the only thing that damages at high lvl and only a few frames can actually use them without eating dirt.

[mkoo33]

Well, i was long time thinking to move on, but with this nerfs i think it might be the time now.

This game brings some new warframes and abilities from time to time, also some new cosmetics, but the core remains  the same : Boring grinding for components to craft things that will help you grind  more efficiently for more  other things... 

I am a veteran player, i own most of the primed weapons and warframes. For some i paid, for some i grind, and i was keep playing just to craft more and more things in  the foundry and increase my MR...
So at the end all comes down to this: Grind !

And that's why i cannot agree to nerfs because of " seriously disruptive effect on gameplay". 

Ember "By simply bullet jumping through levels with World on Fire active, enemies become a non-factor, making Ember a ubiquitous pick across most of the Star Chart. Like a mobile Resonating Quake, this monopoly on kills can leave squadmates struggling to keep up, in an attempt to see the enemy before they melt."

Really ? "squadmates struggling to keep up, in an attempt to see the enemy before they melt."  When i was MR 3 or 4 i wish i could join a squad where an Ember will fast give me mastery points and fast extraction with all the loot !  Nobody really  cares for the killing.  A MR 4  player entering the POE and finding himself in the middle of a Teralyst capture, ask him if he really mind not being able to put a scratch on the Teralyst !

That's why you can  see a full party of 4, camping 30 minutes on a spot for 10k Polymer Bundle ! Then you come and talk about "gameplay" . 

Nerfs = more time consumed for the same result. 

Now anyone here, please explain why you go Teralyst hunting ? It's not even funny anymore.

I go in knowing that we are going to finish him off, then go exchange the loot for standings. Nerfing Chroma it means that we will have to accept less loot  for the same amount of time played. I don't mind playing... after all, this why i am here, but the "playing" itself it's not rewarding.

Nobody here, seems to think on making the enemy more challenging, giving the player a chance of using his brain... The mighty Teralyst has 4 attacks or so, and he will let you know 20 seconds before putting one out ! 

Killing a Teralyst is not a matter of strategy or skills, it's all down to the power of your warframe and weapons.

That's why, i cannot agree to nerfs. 

[Vogue]

4 minutes ago, Yamichi said:

you said that the doubled damage is a buff for her and that this justifies the nerfs. I only showed you that you are wrong. They double nerfed the CC build and will make it unplayable and damage was never an option (that was what i tryed to show you). So how would you play Ember if you are mostly playing lategame? Even in low level she will have now hard times competing with other frames.

I truly don't play ember, I got her to mastery 30 and deleted her, I didn't like killing everything as running around in circles without even having to use my weapons. So true, I do not have experience about end game Ember, but I do know how annoying she can be to other players at low and mid  level range. So maybe start suggesting for ways to make ember viable at end game with the new changes. Because CC warframes there are plenty, she should be a fire killer, not a CCer for end game.

Competing?! wait, aren't we supposed to play together as a group? maybe I am playing the game wrong...

[ADDgamer45]

If you plan to make a change to a frame you need to think of not does this fix the problem. You have to make the frame WANTED. Is ember more WANTED in parties now? Do you want to play ember more now that she has been changed? Both of those answers are no for me.

[Shadedraxe]

Sweet changes. Any chance we’ll see a buff for my beloved vauban’s 1 and a fix for his Bastille augment? (And maybe an addition to his passive so it isn’t pointless when going solo).

[hodagacz]

You may play in groups, I generally solo.

[Ocerkin]

1 minute ago, Teshin_Dax said:

the accelerant augment makes her an endgame frame

 

how so? that augment doesnt effect WoF

[Kell_Prime]

I don't see why Atlas would be centered around petrify.

This just means people would have to constantly be in petrify, draining energy like crazy.

[operative-verona]

As a Banshee main, I'm happy with the change. Really curious to see if you guys change anything else!

[KaeseSchnitte]

5 minutes ago, Teshin_Dax said:

the accelerant augment makes her an endgame frame

Just as Turbulence turns Zephyr into an "endless survival" frame? Is Ember good now because one augment for one ability is not terrible?

[Teshin_Dax]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Ocerkin:

 

how so? that augment doesnt effect WoF

no, but it makes her overall viable.

 

It sounded like she would be trash no matter what