Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[polarity]

14 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

People still don't know jack clem about Ember yet do the :
 

No player that has bothered to play Ember beyond the star charts uses WoF for damage dealing due to the obscene armor scaling of enemies.

Yeah, 99% of players stick to meta builds, which are all about using the absolute minimum of effort or skill to get the job done, while there are plenty of alternatives that do make use of effort and skill, do far more damage, and are far more engaging to play.  I have an Ember with 6 forma put into a dedicated Accelerant build, and she wrecks level 100s.  Of course you have to actually play the game and shoot at them, instead of just pressing 4 and zoning out.

12% duration, 299% strength (plus Growing Power, Energy Conversion, and Flash Accelerant bonuses).

Edited February 3, 2018 by polarity

[DroopingPuppy]

4 minutes ago, Slevin_no1 said:

The Ember change sounds realy nice!  hope it will be so nice like it sounds.

And Ember will no more useless for Level 60+.

 

this is the reason i hate ember in random groups now. 3 of 4 squadmates feel totaly useless.

Actually it simply makes Ember unplayable for all level. Do you really think that 10m radius is acceptable for WOF? Evem 40 level enemy are quite easy to kill you if you enter such distance, or your melee weapon's slide attack can serve the better damage output.

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Phyrak:

Both are defensively based and have synergy with elements, armour and weapons.

If you are only talking about ice(and part of fire) it is defensive but not the other elements they are just supportive bonuses, like EW is in general, weapons arent even buffed by this. Vex armor isnt even element relevant, it only buffs your defensive(frame) and offensive (weapon) stats.

 

Even if they combine EW and VA what should be the new ablitiy?

[phoenix1992]

Just now, polarity said:

Yeah, 99% of players stick to meta builds, which are all about using the absolute minimum of effort or skill to get the job done, while there are plenty of alternatives that do make use of effort and skill, do far more damage, and are far more engaging to play.  I have an Ember with 6 forma put into a dedicated Accelerant build, and she wrecks level 100s.  Of course you have to actually play the game and shoot at them, instead of just pressing 4 and zoning out.

Acceletant is also affected (mostly in solo), since your FQ will be a lot worse now.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

I appreciate balance changes especially in regards to your fellow squaddies.   Kill thieves is annoying if you actually want to participate.   I also appreciate trying to tweak warframes to make them more fun to play.  My first priorty would be to deal with troll frames like Limbo, frost, zephyr, mag tho that can and often screw with other players.

 

I was sad to see no change to Mag's magnetize power.  Its great for what is does but its not squad friendly.   It would be nice if people could shoot through the bubble.

Zephyr's vortex? tornado power is also a nuisance.  Instead of lifting targets up so high targets should just hover off the ground or be knocked down and held there so everyone can keep shooting at them and to keep them from being flung all over the maps.   Maybe jack up the damage and get rid of duration.  Based on your reason for making these changes and not touch this ability is another head scratcher.

Im probably using Valkyr wrong but I love her armor.   90% of the time I use none of her abilities.  I store the energy to go berserk and heal/be invincible.  The squad buff is for melee which is not how i play.  Paralyze i use to debuff and stun and insta kill nuisance stuff.  Zip line i never touch not even when moving.  So 1-3 I would love to see tweaked.  2 could be a more general offense buff.  Paralyze looks like it only affects forward 180 arc,  it would be nicer as 360.   I hate using zip line offensively because u have to aim it.  Same with a bunch of other frames.  They should auto-lock nearest target to cursor like melee attacks can do.

Trying to think of other frames i just dont enjoy any not many come to mind but maybe Nyx.  Loved her psychic bolts but everything else is lackluster.  Nekro spanks her mind control ability.  Why control 1 when u can raise an army.  She has a lame single target attack that once again u have to aim.  I dont even remember other abilities.

Speaking of Nekro,  thats another troll frame.  The raised army should be almost completely transparent.  I dont know if they block shots or not buy they should not.  Soul punch... Aimed single target.  Otherwise pretty dope,  just maxing out Nekro Prime for first time now and gonna do major work on him.

[FrostedMike]

The Zephyer we needed...

[F8ted]

The outright thought that people will be maxing range on this instead of max strength plus perfectly reliable damage augments concerns me. Why guys? About 90% of the purpose of ember is to wipe the starchart clear of enemies. She will still be able to run through the map just as easily as before. In that other 10%,she can triple your team's damage, now with 6x the AoE passive damage. Relative to new chroma with max Vex, she still out buffs, and doesn't need to charge it. Assuming someone is modded, say viral and slash, so your fire damage buff actually adds fire damage, accellerant will boost that damage even further. Some combinations wont be quite as effective, but she outpaces chroma's new vex armor already. 

My criticism? It effectively does nothing. Those of you who thing ember is for knocking a bunch of high level enemies down are concerned that a range nerf ruins her. Still sure you can toggle the thing on/off relatively efficiently, and maintain your old proper range. Those of you who used ember as a starchart enemy eraser, you will arguably do this faster, rooms are still pretty tight. Those of you who used her to buff your allies' damage, this is free damage on a damage type you already buff to extraordinary levels.

To me this revisit is, simply lacking. I don't exactly care for the OP's idea of necromancy of old ember, but there are a few concerns I do have with her current state. I would have rather had a reason to use fire blast. This change, is effectively adding fire blast to WoF, and still allowing us to use fire blast. This, outside of nerfing firequake, is all this revisit did. I like the intention of some of their more dedicated reworks, some fell flat but still did so engagingly. This feels like no one will be happy. Those that hated her killing everything in the first place will find it worse.   

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

So Chroma is now a better buff rhino bat has an aura where people have to stand next to Chroma to get the dmg buff

[-Shavo-]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Slevin_no1:

The Ember change sounds realy nice!  hope it will be so nice like it sounds.

And Ember will no more useless for Level 60+.

 

this is the reason i hate ember in random groups now. 3 of 4 squadmates feel totaly useless.

Sorry i have to disappoint you there.. your unmodded range will be 7.5 meter at the 100% stacks. Even the doubled damage means nothing, it will just bring your damage against a lvl 120+ bombard from 20 to 40 for example. Even if the damage would do something you have to go melee range: WoF modded with Stretch at 100% stacks only has 10.8 meter range. Thats still lower than Atterax or Orthos Prime with a Primed Reach. Ember got deleated from late game.

[MonkeyWaffles]

2 hours ago, Marine027 said:

Passives overall needa rework, most are not existent basically at times.

Ember itself for me was always the msot synergized frame since the start, Fireball cna need soem tweaks but Accelerate bosots her stuff while CCing, FIre Blast kept enemys away with also a damage boost, World on Fire  with the new changes in my eyes makes her more relyable now in higher levels and in low ones her ability won't run all day while you afk in some missions.

We will see how it turns out but please can we stop with those Ember threads, or any other threads about the changes, it gets out of hand, besides they will release it that way now, then puta feedback o nthe forum anyway like with Limbo etc.

At least ask a forum mod to  fuse them together, seriously, we not need 3000 threads about the same topic in one day.

if someone would megathread it and summarize all possible feedbacks then i'd be fine and dandy with that

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Can Zephyr still launch herself in the air from a single tap function of tailwind or does it always need to be held?

[phoenix1992]

Ember is a combination frame that scales as long as your CC and gear game is on point.

Well... was.

[phoenix1992]

Everything is OP when you play versus level 40 enemies.


Overheat was busted for it's time, but now should be doing fine.

[Stonehenge]

Il y a 17 heures, [DE]Connor a dit :

EMBER

World On Fire - 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half.

 

[DroopingPuppy]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

Ember is a combination frame that scales as long as your CC and gear game is on point.

Well... was.

[MonkeyWaffles]

3 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Ember is a combination frame that scales as long as your CC and gear game is on point.

Well... was.

a lot of the CC is too reliant on syndicate mods though, which eat up the slots ember already desperately needed for basic survivability and energy availability

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

16 minutes ago, Glavenusaur said:

Oh dear god, what have they done... they lost your $59.95?! how will they survive from here on out? oh the humanity!... the Horror!!! for gods sake DE PLEASE... Think of the children!!!

Delegitimize someones opinion like they shouldn't have one.  You feel better and like a big man, do ya.

[phoenix1992]

Just now, MonkeyWaffles said:

a lot of the CC is too reliant on syndicate mods though, which eat up the slots ember already desperately needed for basic survivability and energy availability

This is another topic for another time. The Augments for Ember were put in a time in which those things were mostly flavors and build alternatives. Those days you simply can't play Ember without Either FA or FQ, unless you want to be carried by your team.

[AcceptYourDeath]

Keep in mind we could get "shield-gating" eventually which should have a drastic impact on Mag or Equinoxs newest change.

If shards can deal appropriate damage after the change it should solve the problem for Mag being stuck with certain weapons.

Shards behave the same way a Lanka shot does, circulating endless and covering more than the very center of a bubble. The big problem for hitscan weapons at the moment. If the shard damage also converts into Magnetizes explosion damage, which it normally does any bubble should turn into a nuke by itself. 

vor 14 Stunden schrieb malekas:

and the CC doesn't "pick up" enemies some times. 

I hope they adress this at some point, this problem is not exclusive to Mag, there are other abilitys having this problem. I think it has to do with some kind of immunity for the AI during certain animations? For example if enemys take cover they are often not affected by abilitys. That is at least the one case I`ve seen multiple times. 

Dive Bombs knockdown is ignored ALOT by AI.

[Messkoo]

Atlas :

Instant petrify on 4th ability : this will not replace his 3rd ability witch need time to take effect and block weapon use ?

3rd ability : don't block other power cast, good, but we don't play with full energy all the time and can't play only with power, this power need  a change, or more utility (blocking enemie's shots ?)

Ember :

combining an energy augmentation with an AOE  that reduce is not a good choice even if it's with  damage boost at max charge. And it's not really logic for me.

Maybe just start the AOE short at the beginning and becoming larger at the 100% with still the energy consumption augmentation (and without damage modification). This will be more lore full and match his name "world on fire"

And lastly, WOF augment mod will be usless if the AOE is reduced.

Mag :

Good news, but polarize need to scale with enemie's lvl first.

Crush : good add, but gaining overshield isn't a bit too much and doesn't  replace it polarize augment ?

Edited February 3, 2018 by Messkoo

[07Slevin]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb DroopingPuppy:

Actually it simply makes Ember unplayable for all level. Do you really think that 10m radius is acceptable for WOF? Evem 40 level enemy are quite easy to kill you if you enter such distance, or your melee weapon's slide attack can serve the better damage output.

first: with max range WOF is at 37,5m. after the time you have a 18,75m where WOF is aktive.  In this Range you should can get a few shots from lvl 40 enemies.

second: in this range your damage is double, so lvl 40 easily will be oneshot for the ember ulti.

 

 

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Yamichi:

Sorry i have to disappoint you there.. your unmodded range will be 7.5 meter at the 100% stacks. Even the doubled damage means nothing, it will just bring your damage against a lvl 120+ bombard from 20 to 40 for example. Even if the damage would do something you have to go melee range: WoF modded with Stretch at 100% stacks only has 10.8 meter range. Thats still lower than Atterax or Orthos Prime with a Primed Reach. Ember got deleated from late game.

 

what do you all have with 10m?  you just have to get another build, thats totaly normal in this game.

and for the lvl 120 bombard: with this ember you do nothing against him! Ember ist totaly useless at this Level now.

And for the melee range: i dont realy know if it is a problem of the ember ulti or of the high range of the "melee" weapons.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Slevin_no1

[phoenix1992]

13 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

People will just switch to Equinox. Until DE addresses the base problem which is matchmaking, efficient players will keep playing efficiently, and slow players or players who get mad someone gets more kills than them will keep complaining.

You also realize that Ember will become a lot worse for Jordas Trial, right?

[Glavenusaur]

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

Delegitimize someones opinion like they shouldn't have one.  You feel better and like a big man, do ya.

What opinion? you basically said you wont buy prime access because you cant play on auto pilot as well as you used to, that's a statement not an opinion dude, there is a difference.

[FrostedMike]

You do know that she also deal double the damage over time? Right?

I understood from the thread that she will now scale better into the end game with more damage output but will not demolish everything so fast that not even Ember can get a glance of enemies.

Here are the changes:
- Increase damage output and energy reduction over time.
- Decrease range at the same amount of time.
- All changes are applied to WoF only.

Let check with the builds:
- The "Nerf Ember" as you called it:
As it is now, this build simply melt enemies at low - medium levels and struggle farther into the late game.
With the changes she still melt low - medium levels but doesn't have to struggle in the late game as she deal more damage. All Ember players need now is to get closer to the enemies.

- Firequake:
As it is now and I see it, It just give Ember more time to breath and deal her damage in the late game. Jsut batter version of the build above.
Considering the changes, it is still a better version of the "Nerk Ember" as the augmet still knock down enemies and give Ember more time to deal damage. The only change in playstyle, again, is to get closer...

- Flash Accelerant:
The augment give more damage output to both Ember and her allies... At the end, it's a more active Ember that use the fire resistence debuff to deal her damage.
The upcoming changes have no effect in Accelerant, only on WoF. So considering the changes... Just getting closer to enemies as the other builds?

In conclusion, the changes are ment to give the rest of the squad a chance to do something while not nerfing Ember to the ground. You lose range and energy efficiancy in return for double the damage. So all the changes players will have to do with their playstyle is to get closer to enemeis like the rest of the squad... The energy efficiancy? Just keep track of it, Valkyr also have it and I can keep Hysteria on for ages...

Edited February 3, 2018 by FrostedMike

[phoenix1992]

1 minute ago, Glavenusaur said:

What opinion? you basically said you wont buy prime access because you cant play on auto pilot as well as you used to, that's a statement not an opinion dude, there is a difference.

Stop embarrassing yourself. 

Your opinions so far: 

1) People play Ember only to steam roll star chart (even though Equinox is a lot better for that)
2) People will not keep using Ember for steam roll the star chart. Because it is that hard to double tap 4.
3) Monetization for DE is a small matter.