Regarding Forma compensation for a number of frames you intend to rework.

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

27 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

The forma that you "rightfully earned" have already been used. You have already spent them. They are gone. Any additional forma have not yet been earned and need to be either farmed or bought. And again, you haven't really "endured rng" when forma are among the most common drops from relics. 

you must not know that the "rng" I spoke off are not just formas or that the "stuff I rightfully earned" are not formas alone.

Edited February 4, 2018 by (XB1)Babadookcf

[Xantheis]

23 minutes ago, Adioos said:

1 - optional forma?  Almost every weapon needs forma to have the max number of mod slots filled at highest rank.  When the entire game revolves around farming forma to increase damage, its no longer an optional task.

2 - Are you really that dense? "sell one prime junk and buy one"  That is still someone's money being given to the developer and that is still unnecessary grinding.  The point is that the reason you are spending money is because the developers said screw you, not because you enjoy the game.  Plus its trading community money going to developer I.E. its no longer available for trade money.

3 - They changed ember from a long range caster based cc frame to a close ranged fire melee base frame.  Essentially they took away the survivability, and extensibility of the frame.  So yes, no visual changes but they did change the function.  Eg. they changed f(x) = x^2 into f(x) = x in case you don't know what a function means

4 - Here is a question, (in case you cannot comprehend what a question is read start of sentence) would you buy anything in the game knowing you are entitled to nothing?  Usually businesses compensate consumer inconvenience even if its not written in any signed contract.  Why? cuz it betters the community and their products.  Case and point you are making the game worse by allowing DE to get away clean with nerfing and changing what ever they want in the game.  If you want to be a sheep thats fine but don't force others.

1. yes.  you choose to forma for the build you want. you could choose not to just as easily. and for frames, there are absolutely builds that are 0 forma that will do most content.  if you arent running 1 hour + survivals on Mot, you dont need to have the best min/max build

2. Thanks for the insult.  i appreciate you being able to communicate a differing opinion without lowering yourself to name calling.  The developers did not say screw you.  they are making a change to one ability.  it isnt personal.  this is their game.  they can change what they want when they want.  My point was that forma is very inexpensive and if the OP didnt want to run a relic mission to get some they could easily buy one.  

3. no they didnt - they did not change ember from a long range caster to a melee character.  they changed her from a long range caster  that struggled above lvl 30 to a caster that can now do better at higher level content.  they changed the damage done, range, and power cost over time.  the ability is fundamentally the same.  you may decide to change your playstyle with her moving forward but, they did not fundamentally change the ability. 

4. again, thanks for the insult.  i appreciate it.  I am well versed in questions and answers and English in general.  thanks for checking.  There is a very significant difference between buying a physical product and a character in a video game.  If I bought a toaster and one day came home to a coffee pot, yea.  id be upset.  with a video game making a change to one ability, im not upset at all and yes, i would (and will) add forma since it is an inexpensive resource that i enjoy adding to my frames.  Video games change over time and Warframe has changed significantly since i started playing and I dont regret spending forma in any weapon because it is a game and i play for fun.  i added forma to a frame or weapon and then enjoyed using it.  I got my money's worth. Further, this isnt the first game i have played that has changed - i didnt ask for compensation then on inexpensive optional resources and i wont here either.

Maybe this is the first time you have played a game where a character has undergone a change or this sort of thing is new to you (and no, that isnt an insult, it is an aside... a 'wondering aloud').  For the money you pay for this entertainment (read: free), i firmly believe no compensation is necessary when one ability is changed.  especially before i have played with the change. 

lastly, just because someone has a different opinion from yours, you don't have the right to insult them or claim they are making the game worse.  opinions are different.  people are different.  perhaps you should take a break from the game if a change to one ability has you this angry. 

[LSG501]

We have had iirc 3 forma and I believe a 3 day affinity booster as compensation when the synoid simulor, telos botace etc got their nerfs, sorry I mean changes. 

I feel in the case of the frames specifically being nerfed we should at least get the same sort of similar compensation but based on recent experience with gara's nerf to her 4 it does seem like DE doesn't feel that players are entitled to some sort of compensation for the time and effort spent applying forma etc.  Unnecessarily nerfing a frame is bad enough but if we required to rework the builds out of own resources then that's just not on imo. 

 

As to forma being a common drop... I'll be honest here imo the drop rate has changed so it drops less since around the affinity booster weekend. 

[TALISMAN_XVII]

1 hour ago, Shichibukai88 said:

Not gonna happen, move on, they wont refund anything they arent entitled to and neither are you. End of story. Sheesh, everytime they change a frame ppl freak out and want a refund. Learn to adapt.

You already made your point on the previous page from what I can recall, but from the looks of it you didn't get enough attention. 

[Xantheis]

6 minutes ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

You already made your point on the previous page from what I can recall, but from the looks of it you didn't get enough attention. 

they merged 2 threads so, there is a chance that this comment was on the other one.  I know my comments posted after our original conversation were from that thread. 

[WhiteCr0w]

4 hours ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

So we should be just expected to change around and re-forma willy nilly when they feel like a mix up is in order at the drop of a hat?

It's almost like this game is in ongoing development, with not only new content but rehashes of old content being equally likely.

[Shiichibukai]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb TALISMAN_XVII:

You already made your point on the previous page from what I can recall, but from the looks of it you didn't get enough attention. 

Threads have been merged. Relax.

[TALISMAN_XVII]

20 minutes ago, Xantheis said:

they merged 2 threads so, there is a chance that this comment was on the other one.  I know my comments posted after our original conversation were from that thread. 

Ahh well if that's the case, I appologise I did get confused when a load of gifs came out of nowhere 😂

[TALISMAN_XVII]

6 minutes ago, Shichibukai88 said:

Threads have been merged. Relax.

Yeah I'm on a mobile phone so I didn't even notice it had, apologies. 

[Xantheis]

15 minutes ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

Ahh well if that's the case, I appologise I did get confused when a load of gifs came out of nowhere 😂

no worries :) 

[(XBOX)Spartan Roks]

6 hours ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

Hi, I'd like to first mention that from a objective standpoint, the majority of changes you have planned for quite a lot of the Warframes seem on the whole, relatively fair and needed. I have my concerns about Ember but that's another topic. What does concern me however and others may not agree (Although I imagine anyone whos invested anytime into any of the warframes you plan to change will) is the necessity to modify builds to fit the new dynamics / roles you invision for these Warframes.

I'll use Chroma as an example. I won't be as naive as to assume everyone, but a large chunk of the playerbase utilise and use min/max Chroma builds for his 2nd and 3rd abilities currently. He's that unstoppable tank you call on when the rest of the squad needs it, effective at solo gameplay and of course as of recent, hunting the Eidolon on the plains. If your intention is to (and lets not hide it) change the roles of a few of these Warframes quite dramatically, then I feel adequate compensation (forma) should be given to allow players to adapt their builds. It's been a good 4 years and you provide an in-game market heavily reliant on microtransactions, please don't abuse the excuse of being in the eternal "Beta". Thank you.

HA, tell that to the millions of people who got golden guns for nerfed heroes in overwatch. oh wait wrong forums... Anyways, it remains the same, all frames are subject to change, and DE doesn't need to give compensation for a nerf that people don't like

[DrakoKnight48]

6 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

They don't need to compensate anything. You invested in the frame, and they are always subject to change. When Greedy Mag was nerfed, players were not compensated in 2015, so why should they compensate for these frames now? No one is entitled to forma after these reworks.

Poor example. After the Tonkor was nerfed by giving it self damage players like myself was compensated by being given one forma. In hindsight it clearly wasn't enough since I invested five forma into it. Since DE plans on reworking how these frames function ability wise, I'd say players should be compensated. I mean who are you harming by giving out free forma? 

[DrakoKnight48]

2 hours ago, MickThejaguar said:

The hardest part about getting forma is the 24 hour wait for them build. 

ANNNNND that there is the problem. You can only build one forma at a time and the 24 hour wait time. I wouldn't be so triggered if I could build multiple forma at once and log off for 24 hour to only to come back to a freshly made batch.

[Voltage]

1 minute ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

Poor example. After the Tonkor was nerfed by giving it self damage players like myself was compensated by being given one forma. In hindsight it clearly wasn't enough since I invested five forma into it. Since DE plans on reworking how these frames function ability wise, I'd say players should be compensated. I mean who are you harming by giving out free forma? 

You hurt the system by creating precedent. While I do know about the weapons balance pass, if DE caters to people that are too lazy to reinvest in gear to unlock potential after changes, it creates this mentality of being entitled to compensation every time DE changes something. Should I demand 4 Forma because DE removed the 2x headshot damage on Arca Plasmor? Of course not.

The intention of Forma is to invest time and resources into gear to increase power. If Digital Extremes changes the mechanics of a skill's power, then you must invest more time if you truly enjoy using the skill. If you truly love a skill, DE changing it will not stop you from making it the best skill. If you have a budget Chroma build and complain DE changes Vex Armor and demand compensation, something is wrong. The people who love Chroma with 6-8 Forma invested into a min-maxed Chroma will most likely go back to the drawing board and use mathematic formulas which DE has provided within that post to create another Chroma build.

[DrakoKnight48]

4 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

You hurt the system by creating precedent. While I do know about the weapons balance pass, if DE caters to people that are too lazy to reinvest in gear to unlock potential after changes, it creates this mentality of being entitled to compensation every time DE changes something. Should I demand 4 Forma because DE removed the 2x headshot damage on Arca Plasmor? Of course not.

The intention of Forma is to invest time and resources into gear to increase power. If Digital Extremes changes the mechanics of a skill's power, then you must invest more time if you truly enjoy using the skill. If you truly love a skill, DE changing it will not stop you from making it the best skill. If you have a budget Chroma build and complain DE changes Vex Armor and demand compensation, something is wrong. The people who love Chroma with 6-8 Forma invested into a min-maxed Chroma will most likely go back to the drawing board and use mathematic formulas which DE has provided within that post to create another Chroma build.

 

So you're calling me lazy? Cause I'm one of those so called lazy people who don't wanna reinvest in their gear. I, the guy who spent an entire week building my Chroma, and my Ember. I didn't buy forma off the market, no I farmed for it, the resources to craft 'em, and waited the 24 hour waiting period to collect my forma. That's MY time I wasted leveling the frame of my choosing only to have it nerfed by some haft baked energy drain ramp, and range reduction. I'm so, so happy I now gotta spend more of my precious time farming for more forma (say about a week, I don't by forma off the market), wait 24 hours and level my frame for each day. But of course I gotta have folks like you spit in my face because you don't want DE handing out free forma. GG, thanks. You're quite the intellectual.  

[Voltage]

9 minutes ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

 

So you're calling me lazy? Cause I'm one of those so called lazy people who don't wanna reinvest in their gear. I, the guy who spent an entire week building my Chroma, and my Ember. I didn't buy forma off the market, no I farmed for it, the resources to craft 'em, and waited the 24 hour waiting period to collect my forma. That's MY time I wasted leveling the frame of my choosing only to have it nerfed by some haft baked energy drain ramp, and range reduction. I'm so, so happy I now gotta spend more of my precious time farming for more forma (say about a week, I don't by forma off the market), wait 24 hours and level my frame for each day. But of course I gotta have folks like you spit in my face because you don't want DE handing out free forma. GG, thanks. You're quite the intellectual.  

The word I underlined, bolded, and italicized illustrates my point. If you truly feel you wasted your time, then you do not really enjoy the process for your build. I have been crafting at-least 5 forma a week since 2015. Two thousand and fifteen. You realize I was one of those players to invest 5 forma + platinum into an Arcane Chlora Saryn pre-nerf nuke for Draco. Did I complain that my time was "wasted"? No. I felt content with what I used when it was good, and proceeded to get a Saryn Prime and build around her new rework, not be mad at DE because they changed an ability. DE should not be handing out free forma. It is not going to kill you to reforma a Warframe for a mechanical alteration.

Edited February 4, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[MickThejaguar]

19 minutes ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

So you're calling me lazy? Cause I'm one of those so called lazy people who don't wanna reinvest in their gear. I, the guy who spent an entire week building my Chroma, and my Ember. I didn't buy forma off the market, no I farmed for it, the resources to craft 'em, and waited the 24 hour waiting period to collect my forma. That's MY time I wasted leveling the frame of my choosing only to have it nerfed by some haft baked energy drain ramp, and range reduction. I'm so, so happy I now gotta spend more of my precious time farming for more forma (say about a week, I don't by forma off the market), wait 24 hours and level my frame for each day. But of course I gotta have folks like you spit in my face because you don't want DE handing out free forma. GG, thanks. You're quite the intellectual.  

Well I mean, yeah you're being lazy. DE changes things all the time, constantly nerfing and buffing warframes and weapons. If they just completely refunded forma every time they changed something then there'd be people sitting on a literal mountain of forma. Your forma have been spent and they are gone. If you don't think you should have to put forth effort to earn more then you are in fact being lazy. More likely than not, you're not even going to have to swap out every slot you've forma'd. It'll probably be just a change to 3 slots at the most. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by MickThejaguar

[DrakoKnight48]

1 minute ago, --Q--Voltage said:

The word I underlined, bolded, and italicized illustrates my point. If you truly feel you wasted your time, then you do not really enjoy the process for your build. 

Does anyone really enjoy the process of re-leveling your the same gear over, and over, and over, again without an affinity booster? I sure as heck don't anymore. The magic was lost last year. It's slow and boring. 

 

4 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

You realize I was one of those players to invest 5 forma + platinum into an Arcane Chlora Saryn pre-nerf nuke for Draco. Did I complain that my time was "wasted"?

First off, I don't know you. In fact I just met you. Secondly, you had Draco back then, the map where you can max rank an entire set of weaponry, warframes, companions, etc all in the span of like what, an hour or 20 minutes? You wouldn't have wasted your time considering you spent so little of it comparing to me. 

 

8 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

 Did I complain that my time was "wasted"? No. I felt content with what I used when it was good, and proceeded to get a Saryn Prime and build around her new rework, not be mad at DE because they changed an ability. DE should not be handing out free forma, and I feel that you need to calm down about this. A few forma isn't going to kill anyone.

 That's you buddy. I'm not you. I'm just venting out my dismay for the upcoming farm I'll be forced into this coming up date once these nerfs and rebalances go live. I've been on the forms most of the day trying to change people's minds about the Ember WOF rework. The drain mess is most likely gonna make me stop playing her much like I did when Valkyr got her hysteria energy drain nerf. 

 

Ya don't have to reply back. Let's just end it here. Imma end up sounding like a broken record if this continues. 

[--Q--Animan8000]

Zitat

The word I underlined, bolded, and italicized illustrates my point. If you truly feel you wasted your time, then you do not really enjoy the process for your build. I have been crafting at-least 5 forma a week since 2015. Two thousand and fifteen. You realize I was one of those players to invest 5 forma + platinum into an Arcane Chlora Saryn pre-nerf nuke for Draco. Did I complain that my time was "wasted"? No. I felt content with what I used when it was good, and proceeded to get a Saryn Prime and build around her new rework, not be mad at DE because they changed an ability. DE should not be handing out free forma. It is not going to kill you to reforma a Warframe for a mechanical alteration.

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by --Q--Animan8000

[Voltage]

5 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

Well I mean, yeah you're being lazy. DE changes things all the time, constantly nerfing and buffing warframes. If they just completely refunded forma every time they changed something then there'd be people sitting on a literal mountain of forma. Your forma have been spent and they are gone. If you don't think you should have to put forth effort to earn more the you are in fact being lazy. More likely than not, you're not even going to have to swap out every slot you've forma'd. It'll probably be just a changed to 3 slots at the most. 

Do not forget it would also impact one of DE's greatest platinum sinks:

[DrakoKnight48]

2 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

Well I mean, yeah you're being lazy. DE changes things all the time, constantly nerfing and buffing warframes and weapons. If they just completely refunded forma every time they changed something then there'd be people sitting on a literal mountain of forma. Your forma have been spent and they are gone. If you don't think you should have to put forth effort to earn more then you are in fact being lazy. More likely than not, you're not even going to have to swap out every slot you've forma'd. It'll probably be just a change to 3 slots at the most. 

Well as I told the other guy up the chain in this thread. I spent an entire week (actually more) farming for forma just to max out range for my ember's WOF build. Thing is....I didn't build her for strength, moreover CC thanks to the fire quake augment. Honestly I'm not asking for a mountain of forma (which honestly isn't a bad thing all things considered) just two or three for each frame, not eight. I surely didn't get that amount when DE nerfed my favorite weapon the Tonkor a year or so back. Heck, all I got was a single pre-build forma to replace the one five I sunk into it. 

[DrakoKnight48]

2 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Do not forget it would also impact one of DE's greatest platinum sinks:

Would giving people a few forma really be that punishing? I mean 9k verse 2 or 3 free forma. :O

[MickThejaguar]

1 minute ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

Well as I told the other guy up the chain in this thread. I spent an entire week (actually more) farming for forma just to max out range for my ember's WOF build. Thing is....I didn't build her for strength, moreover CC thanks to the fire quake augment. Honestly I'm not asking for a mountain of forma (which honestly isn't a bad thing all things considered) just two or three for each frame, not eight. I surely didn't get that amount when DE nerfed my favorite weapon the Tonkor a year or so back. Heck, all I got was a single pre-build forma to replace the one five I sunk into it. 

The next guaranteed update is on 6th, when they unvault the 3 primes. Hypothetically speaking, if they were also pushing these changes on that day then you would have enough time to get 3 forma for one of your frames. You have the time to get the forma before the changes go live. 

[MickThejaguar]

9 minutes ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

Would giving people a few forma really be that punishing? I mean 9k verse 2 or 3 free forma. :O

that's 2 or 3 forma for thousands of players. Those numbers add up.

[DrakoKnight48]

4 minutes ago, MickThejaguar said:

that's 2 or 3 forma for thousands of players. Those numbers add up.

How? Everyone is getting a few. Does DE not only have a set number of their own digital items? LOL