"Ember is useless now!!! D:" Actually no, she isn't.

[Maka.Bones]

She's a little bit more annoying to play now, as the difficulty of energy management and reduced survivability has increased. However, she's still really strong for low-mid lvl content. Though she kinda sucks a little more, against enemies past lvl 80. Which is making me frustrated AF; trying to find a different build that feels fluid (overextended helps pure firequake builds, but I actually wanted to kill things with fire damage).

 

Actually, her afk setup has even been buffed. Think about it, they doubled the base damage, just at higher energy right? So build for 175% power str, add growing power, equibrium, and use stretch/auger reach.

 

Personally, I prefer equilibrium over auger reach (or streamline). But i'm posting this build, so people can see it for themselves. 

 

Honestly, not much has changed. The meme build still exists... it just looks different than before. I wish DE would actually rework her kit, rather than tweak her existing one. 

This guy said it better:

Edited February 11, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[JackMcRain]

I gotta say, Ember is still powerful to me. I tried to play with her and it feels like that nothing had changed at all. I mean, sure the simple fact of having a shorter range can be seen as problematic but to me it doesn't matter as long as I can kill everything I encounter. In fact, why whould I want to let the World on Fire ability do the whole thing for me? I also want to have fun by using my guns even if they are away from the reach of the ability. 

[krc473]

Ember is not as good now. The range dropped so my CC build does not work as well. So Ember dies more easily because enemies hit you far more frequently.

 

Ember has more than one function. Just because she deals more damage does not mean she is better/as good for everyone. For my build, WoF can have zero damage, it would not matter, I do not use it for damage. 

[Maka.Bones]

7 minutes ago, JackMcRain said:

I gotta say, Ember is still powerful to me. I tried to play with her and it feels like that nothing had changed at all. I mean, sure the simple fact of having a shorter range can be seen as problematic but to me it doesn't matter as long as I can kill everything I encounter. In fact, why whould I want to let the World on Fire ability do the whole thing for me? I also want to have fun by using my guns even if they are away from the reach of the ability. 

Yes, thank you! Except that I'm posting this because I'm tired of bad players complaining about ember being trash. I'd also like DE to give ember an actual/proper rework, instead of tweaks. 

[JackMcRain]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

I'd also like DE to give ember an actual/proper rework, instead of tweaks. 

Yeah I see. Who knows?

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

Ember is not as good now. The range dropped so my CC build does not work as well. So Ember dies more easily because enemies hit you far more frequently.

 

Ember has more than one function. Just because she deals more damage does not mean she is better/as good for everyone. For my build, WoF can have zero damage, it would not matter, I do not use it for damage. 

I don't get that problem, because I usually just bullet jump to them before they aim at me. 

[-Paradiz-]

I thing...

Quote

Why whould I want to let the World on Fire ability do the whole thing for me?

Its for you. If you dont want to play ember like that then dont put so much range into hes abillity and you can still use guns. 

 

 

Nobody likes to farm/grind like a drone mindless drone all the time. I think no player in the world ever said. "Oh yeah, let me now farm this specific thing for a few days..... ".

A little bit of "farming" is "ok".

 

Many players used ember to to some missions faster then other frames was just because she was more efficient. Thats why people are now annoyed when the range of WoF is nerfed to the ground. The way it was done was also kind a stupid. Instead of making it 50% reduced range why not just simply change the basse range to 50% less without all that reduce range bullS#&$?

 

Other thing is, if the point of making this nerf was to punish AFK people. Then why not just punish them in a way of them not getting single a reward or just banning them? 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by -Paradiz-

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Ember is I buffed in my opinion. As long as you don't just stand still, you'll be fine.

[krc473]

8 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I don't get that problem, because I usually just bullet jump to them before they aim at me. 

The main problem I see is that some melee weapons (whips) can out range the ability. Ember hits 42m, so 21m at max according to the wiki (mine is 30m/15m). Whips with Primed reach and a range riven can hit further away. Which seems odd. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by krc473

[Fallen_Echo]

18 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

She's a little bit more annoying to play now, as the difficulty of energy management and reduced survivability has increased. However, she's still really strong.

 

Actually, her afk setup has even been buffed. Think about it, they doubled the base damage, just at higher energy right? So build for 175% power str, add growing power, equibrium, and use stretch/auger reach.

 

Personally, I prefer equilibrium over auger reach (or streamline). But i'm posting this build, so people can see it for themselves. 

 

Honestly, not much has changed. 

You missed a crucial point here.

The energy cost is doubled, the damage is doubled and the range shrinks into half.

 

Going with this build:

https://goo.gl/GtxvpK

Wof has an initial cost of 35 energy at start has 1 energy/sec drain 42 meter range and 380 damage.

After 10 sec wof reaches its final stage where it drains 2 energy per sec, has 21m range and deals 760 damage and this is a max range build.

Going with your build:

https://goo.gl/JwfqRt

The initial cost is 50, the drain is 2.35/sec range is 28.50m and damage is 840.

After 10 sec the drain is 4.7/sec the range is 14.25 and the damage is 1680, it might be still useable for low level farming but she is useless for high level play with that low range.

 

[Walkampf]

I think Ember is stronger than before.

I mean, WoF got +100% dps... for a Warframe which is essentialy designed all around the thought of dealing damage doubeling her main attacks dps is a pretty big thing.

Anyone who uses Ember as a damagedealer, as she was intented to be, should like the idea of the damage increase.

The problem ist that there is a small yet very vocal group of people (because it's the internet... there always is...) who did some mindbending and forced Ember into some sort of 'support' role, which she was not meant for, but someone at DE greenlit an augment, which directly goes against Embers purpose of dealing damage.

Well, and there are those who wanted her for AFK farming.

I think her change was definitly a step in the right direction, as i already argued with somebody else ealier today.

Spoiler

 

#unashamedselfpromotion

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Whips with Primed reach and a range riven can hit further away

Range riven; that's why. Yes, that will happen.

[Maka.Bones]

5 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

You missed a crucial point here.

The energy cost is doubled, the damage is doubled and the range shrinks into half.

 

Going with this build:

https://goo.gl/GtxvpK

Wof has an initial cost of 35 energy at start has 1 energy/sec drain 42 meter range and 380 damage.

After 10 sec wof reaches its final stage where it drains 2 energy per sec, has 21m range and deals 760 damage and this is a max range build.

Going with your build:

https://goo.gl/JwfqRt

The initial cost is 50, the drain is 2.35/sec range is 28.50m and damage is 840.

After 10 sec the drain is 4.7/sec the range is 14.25 and the damage is 1680, it might be still useable for low level farming but she is useless for high level play with that low range.

 

Actually no, I didn't miss that "crucial" point; I think you missed the point of my picture.

My picture was for the meme ember build, that runs through low lvl missions with just WoF. Not for high lvl gameplay. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Fallen_Echo]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Actually no, I didn't miss the point. But I think you missed the point of my picture.

My picture was for the meme ember build, that runs through low lvl missions with just WoF. Not for high lvl gameplay. 

Well even with high level build (just change one mod to firequake on my posted build) its efficiency seriously got lower.

For afk running around this might be good, but seriously from my point of view this is not good for such intents. You are better off with mirage equipped with an ignis and starts spinning in circles to kill everything.

[Walkampf]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb -Paradiz-:

Nobody likes to farm/grind like a drone mindless drone all the time. I think no player in the world ever said. "Oh yeah, let me now farm this specific thing for a few days..... ".

A little bit of "farming" is "ok".

Many players used ember to to some missions faster then other frames was just because she was more efficient.

I tihnk this highlights a very big underlying problem.

People always claim to be tired of farming stuff and thus they look for the way with the least amount of effort needed to reach the goal.

But those people don't realise that they ruin the game for themself.

Mindless drone is a very fitting term. There are tons and tons of people min/maxing every aspect of a (or actually of ANY) game in order to get the most loot with as little effort as possible.

I think those people are, for the lack of a better word, broken.

They are so focused on some arbitrary numbers to the point where those numbers suddenly become less important than actually playing a game...

[Maka.Bones]

10 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

she is useless for high level play with that low range.

I'm going to admit that I'm scared to try her on higher lvl content. Highest I've used her in atm, is against lvl 80 enemies.  I'm trying to tweak my builds in those missions for now, until I find something that's fluid. Then I'll try it against a sortie 3 run, or a long endless mission.

[Ham_Grenabe]

See, it seems like the real outcome of the Ember change is that they failed to achieve either goal: Ember is still Number One GI for sweeping low level enemies away (you just might get to see them before they die), while not being particularly more suited for high-level content than she was. 

Basically, she does the same thing as before, but she's just more inconvenient to build. :D

Maybe everything will change when they introduce Warframe Rivens.  (I better not give them any ideas)

Edited February 11, 2018 by Ham_Grenabe

[Maka.Bones]

3 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Well even with high level build (just change one mod to firequake on my posted build) its efficiency seriously got lower.

For afk running around this might be good, but seriously from my point of view this is not good for such intents. You are better off with mirage equipped with an ignis and starts spinning in circles to kill everything.

Yeah, pretty much lol. Mirage + ignis is definitely more effective. 

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

See, it seems like the real outcome of the Ember change is that they failed to achieve either goal: Ember is still Number One GI for sweeping low level enemies away (you just might get to see them before they die), while not being particularly more suited for high-level content than she was. 

Basically, she does the same thing as before, but she's just more annoying to build. :D

Exactly my point! lol

 

[Fallen_Echo]

2 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

See, it seems like the real outcome of the Ember change is that they failed to achieve either goal: Ember is still Number One GI for sweeping low level enemies away (you just might get to see them before they die), while not being particularly more suited for high-level content than she was. 

Basically, she does the same thing as before, but she's just more annoying to build. :D

Same with banshee, she doesnt just stands there vibrating now she looks like doing some sort of excercise perma spamming.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Fallen_Echo

[-Paradiz-]

1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

See, it seems like the real outcome of the Ember change is that they failed to achieve either goal: Ember is still Number One GI for sweeping low level enemies away (you just might get to see them before they die), while not being particularly more suited for high-level content than she was. 

Basically, she does the same thing as before, but she's just more annoying to build. :D

Exactly.

[krc473]

9 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Range riven; that's why. Yes, that will happen.

With just Prime Reach, a whip can hit 13.5m away. So, 1.5m less than my Ember WoF. They have nerfed WoF’s ability to be effective CC. It really is not good anymore. Ember is a frame I would use for CC in sorties. No, she was not the best, but it was fun. The nerf/buff has kinda ruined that. And that is why I think Ember is useless now. Because for what I want from Ember, she is useless now.

 

Sure, you can kill stuff better, but if DE wants us to use WoF for damage, not CC, they should change the augment. 

[Maka.Bones]

3 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Same with banshee, she doesnt just stands there vibrating now she looks like doing some sort of excercise perma spamming.

x'D "Workout routines with banshee" lmfao you're hilarious 

[Maka.Bones]

4 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Ember is a frame I would use for CC in sorties. No, she was not the best, but it was fun. The nerf/buff has kinda ruined that. And that is why I think Ember is useless now. Because for what I want from Ember, she is useless now.

Yeah.... I agree with you, and It makes me sad too. You're right, she is useless now *for that role* or style of gameplay. Honestly I'm trying to figure out how to build her with a different style, to even be able to run sorties efficiently (without needing 1k energy pizzas)... Still WIP for me. 

*Edit* I mean, we could use over-extended...? I guess it would achieve CC, and if you don't care about damage then it's perfect for firequake alone. So maybe for you, it might work, but I personally wanted to kill things with her fire. Because I think it looks awesome AF when they die from burning and turn into ashes

Edited February 11, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[krc473]

3 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Edit* I mean, we could use over-extended...?

It still caps at 42m/21m. That is with a full range build. So you cannot do that, because you won’t have Narrow Minded. So it will cost a million pads. I am getting something like 30m/15m with Overextend and Narrow Minded (other mods too). For a squishy frame, 15m CC is not really useful in sorties.