So sick of trading chat, why can't we get an auction house?

[(PSN)Aerik93]

Are you guys seriously not done yet?

Twenty-three pages and you still aren’t done?

A DE mod/staff been messaged and tagged and still not done?

Can you just leave this thread to die before you give everyone cancer?

[Aggh]

5 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

In which, a marketplace for items to be posted by players.. Bots would not apply

 

Lol that's the ideal for bots.

[(PSN)Zelgorath]

An auction house is more limited than a player to player trade. Unless you coded this thing to accept anything for anything, it would be less flexible than a trade. For example, let's say that you have mastered all non-Sentinal companions except for one. No matter how many random incubations you've attempted, RNGesus is playing keep-away and you are at wits end.

With no direct player trade, you are forced to bid or outright buy imprints using the specific currency that the seller requested. Likely always platinum.  If that player would be more interested in a super rare prime part that you have a double of, they couldn't let you know. You couldn't discuss it.

An AH is more limited than trades, and if an AH was made to take into account trading one thing for another, it would likely break the game.

[Grimmstyler]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Zelgorath said:

An auction house is more limited than a player to player trade. Unless you coded this thing to accept anything for anything, it would be less flexible than a trade. For example, let's say that you have mastered all non-Sentinal companions except for one. No matter how many random incubations you've attempted, RNGesus is playing keep-away and you are at wits end.

With no direct player trade, you are forced to bid or outright buy imprints using the specific currency that the seller requested. Likely always platinum.  If that player would be more interested in a super rare prime part that you have a double of, they couldn't let you know. You couldn't discuss it.

An AH is more limited than trades, and if an AH was made to take into account trading one thing for another, it would likely break the game.

That makes sense.. But.. Deleting the trade tab was never a intention..

The AH is more geared to players who dislike spending their time in Trade chat..

Also with the AH you get more gameplay and not spend so much time spamming trade chat and searching for that person whos buying or selling a item..

Or the possibility their attention is not to your WTS ad in trade chat.. Due to Dyslexia?.. How many times have you been messaged by someone who WTB but you posted WTB? How many times have you been messaged by someone who WTS but you posted WTS? 

Its not all about Dyslexia either.. Sometimes the trade chat moves so fast its hard to keep up with the fresh posts even using scrolling.. Yes there are filters for the chat, but what if your looking to buy or sell multiple things?

A player marketplace would be a easier management system..

 

[(PSN)Zelgorath]

8 minutes ago, Grimmstyler said:

That makes sense.. But.. Deleting the trade tab was never a intention..

The AH is more geared to players who dislike spending their time in Trade chat..

Also with the AH you get more gameplay and not spend so much time spamming trade chat and searching for that person whos buying or selling a item..

Or the possibility their attention is not to your WTS ad in trade chat.. Due to Dyslexia?.. How many times have you been messaged by someone who WTB but you posted WTB? How many times have you been messaged by someone who WTS but you posted WTS? 

Its not all about Dyslexia either.. Sometimes the trade chat moves so fast its hard to keep up with the fresh posts even using scrolling.. Yes there are filters for the chat, but what if your looking to buy or sell multiple things?

A player marketplace would be a easier management system..

 

 

 

I agree that an AH could make things easier, but it would likely be limited to a premium AH (plat only) and cut into the trade dynamics. I have friends who bought one Prime access and then farmed after that. Years later, they have never bought plat again, but have thousands due to aggressive farming and trading. An AH would cut into their margins (with clearly listed prices of competition) and probably have them crying foul.

If both an AH and trade existed (open market v black market), they would definitely affect each other, and not always for the betterment of the community. #economics

[Grimmstyler]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Zelgorath said:

I agree that an AH could make things easier, but it would likely be limited to a premium AH (plat only) and cut into the trade dynamics. I have friends who bought one Prime access and then farmed after that. Years later, they have never bought plat again, but have thousands due to aggressive farming and trading. An AH would cut into their margins (with clearly listed prices of competition) and probably have them crying foul.

If both an AH and trade existed (open market v black market), they would definitely affect each other, and not always for the betterment of the community. #economics

Thats what i said..

1 hour ago, Grimmstyler said:

In which, a marketplace for items to be posted by players.. Bots would not apply

I mean if anything, it really comes down to players competing with the DE Warframe Market.. Then item rarity % would probably decrease.. Then how fun would it be not getting rare drops? Without DE Warframe getting $$ how could we have new open world maps, warframes and weapons?

In turn it could be the destruction of Warframe.. But a convenience between player trading..

HIT THE DONATE BUTTON!!!!

HIT THE DONATE BUTTON!!!!

HIT THE DONATE BUTTON!!!!

HIT THE DONATE BUTTON!!!!

[Grimmstyler]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Zelgorath said:

I agree that an AH could make things easier, but it would likely be limited to a premium AH (plat only) and cut into the trade dynamics. I have friends who bought one Prime access and then farmed after that. Years later, they have never bought plat again, but have thousands due to aggressive farming and trading. An AH would cut into their margins (with clearly listed prices of competition) and probably have them crying foul.

If both an AH and trade existed (open market v black market), they would definitely affect each other, and not always for the betterment of the community. #economics

Theres always other ways to make $$ tho.. Fundraisers.. Tennogen.. Fan Art.. Fashion Frame.. Apparel.. Novelties..

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

As someone new to the game, objectively, and with more to lose than to gain (if prices go down as people fear) by my position on this:
* I support an asynchronous trade system with searchable listings and platinum buy-outs (only fixed credit prices required to list, on a per-item basis, whether the item sells or not, and potentially a fixed sale fee taken from the platinum received from the sale), no bids for this automated system.
* I would retain the Trade Chat system, and existing face-to-face trading - even haggling and bartering items for items, instead of plat - mainly for high ticket items.
* Face-to-face trading would not have a sale's fee, but they could be listed in the same listing system; these would be marked "or best offer", no instant buyouts.
* A completed trade history would be recorded for the buy-out listings, with a history going back at least 3 months of all transactions for each item, with names of each seller and buyer, with time of sale and price.

The only way I'm going to get Platinum in this game is if I sell stuff I collect in-game, to other players. (at least for now, finances are tight, buying a house soon) The only things I want to buy are warframe and weapon and sentinel slots (and soon maybe AMP slots). The platinum I spend will be taken out of circulation once spent, not simply changing hands with other players and spreading platinum around. In the far future, when I have all the slots I need, I MIGHT consider fashionframe purchases. I might even get to the point where I have more frames and weapons than the freebie Orokin Catalysts and Orokin Reactors I've been collecting whenever they pop up on alerts, that I might buy more. (those are all currency sinks.) Buying vaulted prime sets and stuff from other players may happen at some point much later - at this point I have the patience to wait for unvaultings and farming on my own.

If prices fall, because it suddenly becomes super easy to list your stuff for sale and everyone starts selling their stockpiles, it would make it very hard for me to even sell enough for all the things I need that I can't earn in-game. Notice, not impossible, just very hard. Even at the lowest possible doomsday price of 1plat for every item, it would only take 20 trades to get 1 warframe slot. Most of the individual items in DE's marketplace are well under 400 plat. I believe such a drastic drop in prices on the player market would incentivize players to purchase plat directly from DE (a good thing for DE).

However, I HIGHLY DOUBT we'd see such a precipitous decline in prices. I've played MANY games with "Auction Houses" similar to that described in my first line, and all this doom and gloom NEVER HAPPENED. I never got rich, but I could buy all the items I needed with some dedicated farming of in-game currency - and later in most games, I was able to just sell stuff I picked up in the higher level content that I didn't need - so not even farming anymore. I mean, these games (plural, games, not isolated flukes) I played, went for DECADES with "Auction Houses" and had bustling economies... but, no, HERE, in Warframe it would be different. It would be disastrous? I'm sorry, not buying it.

My primary reason for supporting an asynchronous trade system, is that the current trade system only functions for those who can be online all the time and don't want to play the game. It works for those who would rather play some elaborate trade simulator than the game. The current prices rely on a fraction of the playerbase participating in trade because the trade system is so horribad, that they just play the game instead. The prices are inflated due to false scarcity created by: 1) no in-game interface for trading, and 2) the requirement that people be online, not playing the game, at the same time, to complete a trade. This is not a healthy economy for the population of the game, just for the few that use the 3rd party sites. It hurts the "free to play" population that hasn't become invested enough in the game to spend their own money on platinum. These "free" players are needed in F2P games so the game isn't empty, because F2P games rely mainly on "whales" to spend big bucks on stuff they don't need, and there aren't enough of those to fill a game world and provide an audience for the whales to impress or play with.

An asynchronous trade system would let people sell items while they go to work or school or out to a movie, or ... whatever reason they're not spending their time in the game for, either by choice or otherwise. It would also let people who are PLAYING the game keep playing the game, instead of standing around in a dojo or relay station with their hand held up over their head trying in vain to hawk their wares. This is a buff to fun and quality of life - it trumps any and all objections I've read here, or on other forums for games with developers with some strange obsession with dark ages trading simulators.

 

[Yrkul]

1 hour ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

An asynchronous trade system would let people sell items while they go to work or school or out to a movie, or ... whatever reason they're not spending their time in the game for, either by choice or otherwise. It would also let people who are PLAYING the game keep playing the game, instead of standing around in a dojo or relay station with their hand held up over their head trying in vain to hawk their wares. This is a buff to fun and quality of life - it trumps any and all objections I've read here, or on other forums for games with developers with some strange obsession with dark ages trading simulators.

This! Thisthisthisthisthis!

Furtermore, If the game retains the restrictions on number of trades/day, and each listing or sale on an AH ticks off one trade slot, the amount of items sold this way would still be severely limited compared to the current trading system. People are often asking for 4-5 items/trade to maximize their daily trade limit. That would severely hamper any flooding of the market and incentivize face-to-face trading for bulk sales. Remember, we're not clamoring for removal of the current system, but adding a less cumbersome alternative.

And congratulations on the house. Hope it becomes a good home for you.

[Grimmstyler]

Read @AyinDygra's post.. Well put.

"And that is how the sausage is made.."

[Kaminariss]

14 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

If prices fall, because it suddenly becomes super easy to list your stuff for sale and everyone starts selling their stockpiles, it would make it very hard for me to even sell enough for all the things I need that I can't earn in-game. Notice, not impossible, just very hard. Even at the lowest possible doomsday price of 1plat for every item, it would only take 20 trades to get 1 warframe slot. Most of the individual items in DE's marketplace are well under 400 plat. I believe such a drastic drop in prices on the player market would incentivize players to purchase plat directly from DE (a good thing for DE).

Unless DE developers are really bad at decision making such thing would not occur. Moreover if would be a child's play to make all prices skyrocket.

 

14 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

but, no, HERE, in Warframe it would be different. It would be disastrous? I'm sorry, not buying it.

That only comes from people not familiar with economy. But it is not impossible to break economy, you could do that by:

• increasing drop rates of relics
• increasing drop rates of white/gold prime parts
• removing trade limit per day
• making trade tax = 0
• removing limit of concurrent items

Having said that, developers would need to be out of their mind to do that.

14 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

These "free" players are needed in F2P games so the game isn't empty, because F2P games rely mainly on "whales" to spend big bucks on stuff they don't need, and there aren't enough of those to fill a game world and provide an audience for the whales to impress or play with.

Yeah, "Free" players are needed so the game would not be empty.

 

14 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

It would also let people who are PLAYING the game keep playing the game, instead of standing around in a dojo or relay station with their hand held up over their head trying in vain to hawk their wares.

Right now i do trades like this: First i check my inventory to see what I have to sell, list it on warframe.market. Go to dojo and stand there for like an hour to sell everything.

[Borg1611]

Since I keep seeing a lot of threads about fraudulent trades and people getting banned, owing DE plat, I wanted to add another benefit of an in-game marketplace. When D3 had their controversial AH, one good thing about it is it had an auditing period. This was sometimes nearly instant and sometimes took awhile. Higher value trades or trades that it flagged for whatever reason would have a longer auditing period. 

By having this auditing period, DE can stop fraudulent transactions in progress and simply block them when they determine a plat seller or stolen plat is being used in a transaction. They can scrutinize high value trades especially more closely if they want to. When a transaction makes it through this process, they can take some of the blame and some responsibility and not aggressively take back plat and ban you if you made a high value sale and then spent the plat before they figured it out (edit: not including situations where they have very solid evidence that a person is intentionally engaging in illegitimate activity).

This way players can feel better about selling their high value rivens and not worrying they may be trading them to illegitimate players. Illegitimate plat should be detected in the auditing process and the trade should simply be cancelled with the item returned to the seller. It can also potentially block the sale of duped items if that were ever an issue. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Borg1611

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

One thing you all have to take into account is an auction house requires a dedicated team to manage the economy. DE has clearly shown it's not interested in developing such infrastructure for the sake of austerity and keeping a lean workforce.  Which is why Trade chat and Maroo's is the limit of what we are going to get unless DE publicly announces intent to develop an in game economy.

These types of systems are completely out of their scope currently and it's obvious after 5 years of development they have no desire to learn any of those systems to adapt them into their game environment.

The fact is they would rather you spend countless hours grinding for RNG loot than trying to play some economic game. Game time is the ultimately currency they value the most, followed by cosmetic purchasing.

Which is fine, I just wish they would communicate that more clearly rather than leave us all in the dark about what is going on here. I personally think it's the wrong attitude to have, being that there is so little endgame content and alternative gameplay the idea of making the in game economy another aspect of the game would only retain and expand the playerbase. Expanding the clan activities to allow for in game player ran markets would be a useful and effective expansion of the game in both content, engagement, and cooperative endgame effort. Something that would be a boon in this game and keep retention rates with veteran players.

 

But you know why bother, just go out there and do another 45 fissure missions to get that prime set, that's what everyone wants to do anyway, according to DE......

Edited March 18, 2018 by (PS4)HurricaneHugo76

[Aggh]

4 hours ago, Borg1611 said:

Since I keep seeing a lot of threads about fraudulent trades and people getting banned, owing DE plat, I wanted to add another benefit of an in-game marketplace. When D3 had their controversial AH, one good thing about it is it had an auditing period. This was sometimes nearly instant and sometimes took awhile. Higher value trades or trades that it flagged for whatever reason would have a longer auditing period. 

By having this auditing period, DE can stop fraudulent transactions in progress and simply block them when they determine a plat seller or stolen plat is being used in a transaction. They can scrutinize high value trades especially more closely if they want to. When a transaction makes it through this process, they can take some of the blame and some responsibility and not aggressively take back plat and ban you if you made a high value sale and then spent the plat before they figured it out (edit: not including situations where they have very solid evidence that a person is intentionally engaging in illegitimate activity).

This way players can feel better about selling their high value rivens and not worrying they may be trading them to illegitimate players. Illegitimate plat should be detected in the auditing process and the trade should simply be cancelled with the item returned to the seller. It can also potentially block the sale of duped items if that were ever an issue. 

They could do this already.  They haven't.  I think that says all that needs to be said about how much the difference an AH would make for this problem.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Aggh

[Borg1611]

4 minutes ago, Aggh said:

They could do this already.  They haven't.  I think that says all that needs to be said about how much the difference an AH would make for this problem.

Adding an auditing period on top of a face to face trade would feel a lot more awkward than in an AH/tradepost transaction. I don't think I've ever played a game that added an auditing delay to a direct person to person trade, even in games that have a delay on AH/tradepost purchases. I think even D3 had a direct instant person to person trade option you could use over the AH.

[Urabask]

44 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

Adding an auditing period on top of a face to face trade would feel a lot more awkward than in an AH/tradepost transaction. I don't think I've ever played a game that added an auditing delay to a direct person to person trade, even in games that have a delay on AH/tradepost purchases. I think even D3 had a direct instant person to person trade option you could use over the AH.

When you have to start talking about feelings you should know you're grasping for straws.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

5 minutes ago, Urabask said:

When you have to start talking about feelings you should know you're grasping for straws.

could say the same of you resorting to being insulting.

Edited March 19, 2018 by (PS4)Boomstickman98

[Urabask]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

could say the same of you resorting to being insulting.

Yeah, there was no insult in there but feel free to pretend there was one.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Urabask

[(PSN)Croewe]

This is still going, huh? I'm surprised no one brought it up on the devstream.

Edited March 19, 2018 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[Borg1611]

38 minutes ago, Urabask said:

When you have to start talking about feelings you should know you're grasping for straws.

They could take the suggestion and have something pop up for larger transactions over some threshold in face to face trades and say the transaction would be audited before being completed even if they don't add a better in-game trade system. It's not really a suggestion that has to go with an tradepost/AH exclusively I suppose.

The reason I would think it would be less accepted in a face to face trade is people go to the trouble to find someone online right then that has whatever they want to trade for. Then they go meet that person and open a trade window and exchange whatever it is they're exchanging. On the other hand, when using a tradepost or AH, you're not meeting live and may not even notice an item sold until you receive the currency in the mail. An auditing system tied to that type of trade is probably less jarring. It's also sometimes just on the currency receiving end that there ends up being much of a significant delay. 

I was just adding another idea that occurred to me as I continue to see more people complain about DE's current policy when it comes to fraudulent trades. I've only seen trade auditing done in games with an AH or tradepost (edit: obviously talking about auditing done before a transaction is completed rather than after), so it seemed relevant to that type of system more than face to face trading.  

Edited March 19, 2018 by Borg1611

[PatternistSlave]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

This is still going, huh? I'm surprised no one brought it up on the devstream.

What would it accomplish for them to come out and say exactly what I did?  What did it accomplish when I said it?  There are those of you still sitting around talking about the utter debacle that was D3's AH like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.  You could see first hand an AH destroy Warframe entirely and you'd just blame their implementation.  Hell.  You'd lobby for it to be in the next game you played.

[Kaminariss]

1 hour ago, PatternistSlave said:

What would it accomplish for them to come out and say exactly what I did?  What did it accomplish when I said it?  There are those of you still sitting around talking about the utter debacle that was D3's AH like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.  You could see first hand an AH destroy Warframe entirely and you'd just blame their implementation.  Hell.  You'd lobby for it to be in the next game you played.

Stop spreading lies. D3 "argument" was overturned long time ago. It was just your false assumption that has nothing to do with Warframe.

AH in warframe cannot even begin to hope to "destroy Warframe". If anything it can make it flourish. Even the worst possible implementation (with just limit of concurrent items) can only bring prices a bit down because there would be nothing to compensate time gained on making trade.

So far your every argument was just assumption with no evidence provided. Some of them didn't even have a common sense

4 hours ago, Aggh said:

They could do this already.  They haven't.  I think that says all that needs to be said about how much the difference an AH would make for this problem.

It only proves what I said earlier, they don't have enough manpower. Neither to develop AH nor to deal with fraud transactions efficiently. And of course companies won't admit that no matter what because it gives them some false sense of security/dignity whatever. Just as if their "customers" (players) would be dumb to not figure it out.

[(PSN)Croewe]

3 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

What would it accomplish for them to come out and say exactly what I did?  What did it accomplish when I said it?  There are those of you still sitting around talking about the utter debacle that was D3's AH like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.  You could see first hand an AH destroy Warframe entirely and you'd just blame their implementation.  Hell.  You'd lobby for it to be in the next game you played.

The #*!% are you talking about? I haven't read more than the first page. Is this about more than an auction house anymore?

I figured if a thread was this talked about (23 pages) and has stayed on the front page for several weeks, I figured they would give some kind of answer to the community whether they were up for discussion about it or not.

No need to be hostile.

Edited March 19, 2018 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[PatternistSlave]

6 hours ago, Kaminariss said:

It was just your false assumption that has nothing to do with Warframe.

 

Yeah a horde looter with an AH that nearly killed the game and was removed.  Of course it doesn't relate in any way.

6 hours ago, Kaminariss said:

If anything it can make it flourish.

Oh good.  We have an expert to confirm this for us.  Tell you what.  Get your home economics teacher in here to say that and I might not consider it trolling.

6 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

The #*!% are you talking about? I haven't read more than the first page. Is this about more than an auction house anymore?

I figured if a thread was this talked about (23 pages) and has stayed on the front page for several weeks, I figured they would give some kind of answer to the community whether they were up for discussion about it or not.

No need to be hostile.

Was just answering your question.  Not talking about you personally.

[Kaminariss]

13 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Yeah a horde looter with an AH that nearly killed the game and was removed.  Of course it doesn't relate in any way.

You are joking right? Yeah it has NOTHING to do with warframe because in D3 you get gear from mobs which you could sell on AH. In warframe you get untradeable resources and credits. And stop sprouting nonsense about nearly killing game, that was just your silly assumption.

 

13 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Oh good.  We have an expert to confirm this for us. 

Successful economy is basically when the money flows. When more than 60% population doesn't engage in economic activity is garbage economy. When people produce goods but don't sell them is garbage economy. When people hoard money because there is nothing more to buy is a garbage economy.

Just like your knowledge about economy. It's the thinking of scammer who is sure that good economy = prices are high so then can sell high.