Preventing Kuva Siphon/Flood Leechers from Getting Rewards

[Raspberry]

When a Kuva Siphon/Flood mission is being played in co-op, there are too many times where people actively leech, even sometimes encourage teammates on squad chat to do all the work while they just mindlessly keep fighting Kuva Guardians and don't contribute at all to the actual mission. No action of any kind, aside from just standing reasonably close to the siphon, is required to trigger Kuva clouds to spawn.

Apart from just letting the siphon fill up 8 times on purpose, then aborting the mission to completely redo it on my own, I don't see any real immediate solution (without DE adding a patch) to actually punishing leechers for not contributing. Playing the entire mission solo to begin with is of course the best workaround, but it is no direct solution to forcing leechers in co-op to do any real work. I guess the same could be said for any mission, including bounties on PoE, but I feel like Kuva missions are easy to leech on because killing enemies around the siphon while actually not contributing to the objective is an easy means of avoiding anti-AFK measures.

The only easy solution I can see right now is for DE to add an option to leave the squad without aborting the mission for Star Chart missions, a function identical to the one for bounties in PoE. This way, I can destroy maybe 1 or 2 braids, then let the machine fill up 7 times, leave the squad to continue the rest of the mission solo, and destroy the remaining braids alone without letting the 8th siphon complete on my end while my former teammate will almost inevitably lose his Kuva rewards. Honestly, the leave squad option could potentially fix a lot of leech-related issues outside of Kuva missions, too. Since it's fairly non-invasive in terms of rewards, DE won't necessarily need to come up with very clever reward systems to punish leechers. What do you think?

[Hyro1]

11 minutes ago, Raspberri said:

When a Kuva Siphon/Flood mission is being played in co-op, there are too many times where people actively leech, even sometimes encourage teammates on squad chat to do all the work while they just mindlessly keep fighting Kuva Guardians and don't contribute at all to the actual mission. No action of any kind, aside from just standing reasonably close to the siphon, is required to trigger Kuva clouds to spawn.

Apart from just letting the siphon fill up 8 times on purpose, then aborting the mission to completely redo it on my own, I don't see any real immediate solution (without DE adding a patch) to actually punishing leechers for not contributing. Playing the entire mission solo to begin with is of course the best workaround, but it is no direct solution to forcing leechers in co-op to do any real work. I guess the same could be said for any mission, including bounties on PoE, but I feel like Kuva missions are easy to leech on because killing enemies around the siphon while actually not contributing to the objective is an easy means of avoiding anti-AFK measures.

The only easy solution I can see right now is for DE to add an option to leave the squad without aborting the mission for Star Chart missions, a function identical to the one for bounties in PoE. This way, I can destroy maybe 1 or 2 braids, then let the machine fill up 7 times, leave the squad to continue the rest of the mission solo, and destroy the remaining braids alone without letting the 8th siphon complete on my end while my former teammate will almost inevitably lose his Kuva rewards. Honestly, the leave squad option could potentially fix a lot of leech-related issues outside of Kuva missions, too. Since it's fairly non-invasive in terms of rewards, DE won't necessarily need to come up with very clever reward systems to punish leechers. What do you think?

Thats not technically leeching, if anything thats helping, especially in floods, seeing how the guardians jobs are to prevent u from obtaining the Kuva, but if u mean that they only go for the kuva, and forget the entire mission, then well yea thats leeching

[Raspberry]

6 minutes ago, Hyro1 said:

Thats not technically leeching, if anything thats helping, especially in floods, seeing how the guardians jobs are to prevent u from obtaining the Kuva, but if u mean that they only go for the kuva, and forget the entire mission, then well yea thats leeching

You can literally AFK inside Void Mode and just wait for the Kuva clouds to appear, so fighting guardians is not contributing but instead just something to do if you're bored or if you want Orvius parts (either to actually build the weapon or turn in later for credits).

Plus, I've had more than my fair share of 2-mans where after destroying the second braid, I just completely stop what I'm doing and observe my teammate. If he's literally just non-stop slide attacking enemies with a polearm/whip and only pausing briefly to disarm Kuva Guardians with Void Blast + Void Dash and get right back at slide attacking, yeah, he's just pretending to contribute.

[Nez-Kal]

2 minutes ago, Raspberri said:

You can literally AFK inside Void Mode and just wait for the Kuva clouds to appear, so fighting guardians is not contributing

Last time I checked, Kuva Guardians ignore your Warframe's invulnerability, and inflict the 90% Reduced Damage on them instead making them very important to kill if you wanna catch Kuva with your Operator. (Did they fix/patch that?)

[lukinu_u]

Did'nt read, but what need to be changed is how Kuva is obtained.

If so many people AFK Kuva siphon, it's probably because the mission itself is a problem.

[Nez-Kal]

Your arguments are Hilarious because people can leech Kuva missions just by not touching a key and staying at the beginning of the level. Way the resource reward for kuva is designed those folks will get it at the end of the level. So.....count your blessings that people are playing with you? Are Killing CC ignoring, Power bashing Kuva Guardians WHOM inflict damage past your Frame's Operator Mode Invulnerability? Are.....NOT leeching?

[Raspberry]

4 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Last time I checked, Kuva Guardians ignore your Warframe's invulnerability, and inflict the 90% Reduced Damage on them instead making them very important to kill if you wanna catch Kuva with your Operator. (Did they fix/patch that?)

I don't play a whole lot of Kuva missions in co-op, but in solo, your Warframe is completely no-targeted if you enter your Operator and go Void Mode. And in my experience, anyway, I have never had my Warframe killed or even hurt by Kuva Guardians while I was in my Operator unless my Warframe had channeled abilities active (which does expose it to damage and enemy targeting with 90% damage reduction in all scenarios, not just against Kuva Guardians).

[Raspberry]

6 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

If so many people AFK Kuva siphon, it's probably because the mission itself is a problem.

I myself do not like how Kuva missions are handled because of the sheer amount of time spent looking for the siphon (mostly in sabotage and mobile defense missions), as well as actually waiting for the Kuva clouds to spawn. I agree that a more fundamental change should be done to this side objective. (The same cannot be said for Spy missions, which also have leeching problems, but mostly because many are too mindless to bother trying to figure out how to complete the objectives.)

In the meantime, though, I still think adding a leave squad option usable anywhere at any time (except in loading screens) is still a positive change to the game.

[Nez-Kal]

Just now, Raspberri said:

I don't play a whole lot of Kuva missions in co-op, but in solo, your Warframe is completely no-targeted if you enter your Operator and go Void Mode.

Not "No-Targeted", just "Low Priority". Enemy have different Priority settings. Say your Kubrow and you are standing the same distance, they'll shoot you at you, but if your Kubrow gets within a certain distance of them, they'll momentarily turn their attention to it. Same with Sentinels, but the opposite. Once you go down THEN they'll shoot directly at it.

When you leave your Warframe your Operators gains "Primary Priority" while your empty Frame gains "Low Priority". If they're completely ignoring it all together that means the Operator Invisibility is bugged at the moment, as once you go Void mode the Enemies are meant to focus on the next Priority, ie, your Kubrow, or your Sentinel, or finally, your Empty Frame. (In that order)
If what you say is true, that means Enemies are treating your Invisible Tenno differently than they do other Invisibility Abilities, meaning they're "searching" for you while not following the natural Priority progression/system. If such is the case, expect a patch fixing it in the near future. (Or, I guess "OH MUH GAAWD OPERATOR VOID MODE NERF!!!" as you might call it at that time)

[Raspberry]

5 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Not "No-Targeted", just "Low Priority". Enemy have different Priority settings. Say your Kubrow and you are standing the same distance, they'll shoot you at you, but if your Kubrow gets within a certain distance of them, they'll momentarily turn their attention to it. Same with Sentinels, but the opposite. Once you go down THEN they'll shoot directly at it.

When you leave your Warframe your Operators gains "Primary Priority" while your empty Frame gains "Low Priority". If they're completely ignoring it all together that means the Operator Invisibility is bugged at the moment, as once you go Void mode the Enemies are meant to focus on the next Priority, ie, your Kubrow, or your Sentinel, or finally, your Empty Frame. (In that order)
If what you say is true, that means Enemies are treating your Invisible Tenno differently than they do other Invisibility Abilities, meaning they're "searching" for you while not following the natural Priority progression/system. If such is the case, expect a patch fixing it in the near future. (Or, I guess "OH MUH GAAWD OPERATOR VOID MODE NERF!!!" as you might call it at that time)

Yes, no-targeted. Whenever they down my companion (always Smeeta Kavat for Kuva missions), they literally just stop being in combat unless there's Corpus/Infested around, then they go towards them. They completely ignore my Warframe, and even if it gets caught in crossfire between factions (even smashed multiple times by Kuva Guardians), I still have full health when I eventually transfer back to it. The only exception to this is when my Warframe is using a channeled ability (i.e. Oberon with Renewal), then it is vulnerable to damage and targeting, but it has 90% damage resist.

[Nez-Kal]

2 minutes ago, Raspberri said:

Yes, no-targeted. Whenever they down my companion (always Smeeta Kavat for Kuva missions), they literally just stop being in combat unless there's Corpus/Infested around, then they go towards them. They completely ignore my Warframe, and even if it gets caught in crossfire between factions (even smashed multiple times by Kuva Guardians), I still have full health when I eventually transfer back to it. The only exception to this is when my Warframe is using a channeled ability (i.e. Oberon with Renewal), then it is vulnerable to damage and targeting, but it has 90% damage resist.

Then expect the "Nerf", that's all I can say. Kuva Guardians are suppose to be a Situation Tenser that forces you to engage the Specialize Enemy in order to complete the current Objective with less chance of Failure. If what you say Is true, then DE borked something with one of their Patches and they'll eventually need to fix it to prevent players like you just AFKing Kuva Siphons, as that is what you're doing. Going into Void Mode and just ignoring everything, poking your head out only for breaths of Operator Energy Refill, and Dashing into literally 4 clouds. It's basically AFK on the same level as old WoF Ember or Resonating Quake Banshee, and as we've seen, DE is taking those styles of play out one by one.

I await the day you whine and complain on the forums about ACTUALLY having to fight and ward off Kuva Guardians in the Kuva Siphon missions. *Mic Drop*

[Raspberry]

1 minute ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Then expect the "Nerf", that's all I can say. Kuva Guardians are suppose to be a Situation Tenser that forces you to engage the Specialize Enemy in order to complete the current Objective with less chance of Failure. If what you say Is true, then DE borked something with one of their Patches and they'll eventually need to fix it to prevent players like you just AFKing Kuva Siphons, as that is what you're doing. Going into Void Mode and just ignoring everything, poking your head out only for breaths of Operator Energy Refill, and Dashing into literally 4 clouds. It's basically AFK on the same level as old WoF Ember or Resonating Quake Banshee, and as we've seen, DE is taking those styles of play out one by one.

I await the day you whine and complain on the forums about ACTUALLY having to fight and ward off Kuva Guardians in the Kuva Siphon missions. *Mic Drop*

Mic drops are for when you outplay someone in a debate, but there's no debate here. I'm only correcting you. I'm not even judging you for being wrong, I'm judging you for being arrogant about it and doing whatever it takes to spread misinformation. You can give the maximum possible effort in saying something works this way, and it does not change how it actually works. Literally, just go do a Kuva Siphon right now or replay The War Within; if you're in your Operator form and your Warframe has no active channeled abilities, it will be no-targeted by all enemies and be invincible to ALL damage, including stray Kesheg swipes from Kuva Guardians.

On top of the above getting on my nerves, just look at my original post. For not a single second have you been remotely on-topic. I'm talking about leechers trying to be rewarded for doing nothing, and you're talking about mission game mechanics.

[Nez-Kal]

11 minutes ago, Raspberri said:

I'm talking about leechers trying to be rewarded for doing nothing, and you're talking about mission game mechanics.

You're proving more and more you're really just not worth the time explaining things too, and obviously don't know what true leeching is.


In case you go off and complain about other "leeching" things:

• Players can go away from Defense point to kill enemies in Defense missions
• Players can wait for you to complete a Spy Vault outside the Vault if you're already inside solving it and don't have to jump in with you.
• Players can stand AT a Mobile Defense and protect it instead of meeting Enemies part-way (See first point if you have a problem with the other way around)
• Players can seek out more Battery Cores if others are protecting the Excavator instead of waiting for enemies to finally make their way to it.
• Players can play Limbo
• Players can do AoE to kill large groups of enemies from a distance away EVEN IF you were fighting those enemies first
• Players can Play the Game
• Notice how these Points are going more and more "Off Topic"? Need to make sure I hit all your potential "Leeching" arguments, see.

 

You're the one who clearly doesn't know how to play the game, who's literally obsessed with telling others HOW to play the game, and I expect you "retaliate" in a similar manner with the Points above when you show "This is the Role I'm Taking/Choosing" and other players let you take it and do it. How dare they, I know. They should have known that you would, I don't know, abandon the Excavator defending the first chance you got when they left to get a battery.
 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Tangent-Valley
Off to bed now. Not staying up to argue with you anymore. I got work tomorrow. You're really not worth it.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

The easiest way to prevent people from leeching from you is to play solo or invite only.  This goes for every mission type.  If you get that bent about what others are doing in public, you shouldn't be there.

Although, my favorite tactic for leechers on the plains is wait until they are 1000m away, start the objective, get it close to failure, then leave squad. Extra bonus points if I'm host. 

[Raspberry]

8 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

• Players can go away from Defense point to kill enemies in Defense missions
• Players can wait for you to complete a Spy Vault outside the Vault if you're already inside solving it and don't have to jump in with you.
• Players can stand AT a Mobile Defense and protect it instead of meeting Enemies part-way (See first point if you have a problem with the other way around)
• Players can seek out more Battery Cores if others are protecting the Excavator instead of waiting for enemies to finally make their way to it.
• Players can play Limbo
• Players can do AoE to kill large groups of enemies from a distance away EVEN IF you were fighting those enemies first

• How is this "leeching"? That's literally the bloody objective. There's no mission progress without killing in a Defense mission.
• Spy is not designed for full squads, which is kind of flawed in and of itself, which is why I often solo them.
• Mobile Defense does not often require killing, so there's not much leeching to be had in the first place.
• That's... normal in Excavation, obviously...? I'm not sure where you're going with this.
• Limbo is pretty infamous for being the most capable of leeching, but fortunately, most who play him get too bored and actually do kill enemies.
• This doesn't have anything to do with mission objectives directly...? I'm not sure where you're going with this.

There's no arguing. You're either repeatedly bringing up unrelated topics or just being wrong, the former being this most recent post's case.

[Raspberry]

23 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

The easiest way to prevent people from leeching from you is to play solo or invite only.  This goes for every mission type.  If you get that bent about what others are doing in public, you shouldn't be there.

Although, my favorite tactic for leechers on the plains is wait until they are 1000m away, start the objective, get it close to failure, then leave squad. Extra bonus points if I'm host. 

Most missions are just played to completion, so I honestly don't care too much as long as they're completed in reasonable time. Kuva is a resource that can only be farmed in specific ways, and it's not an individual thing (unlike fishing/mining or collecting ordinary resources dropped on the ground), so I get more sensitive to potential leechers. You're right, though, I should stay mostly in solo for it.

[Kimimoto]

8 hours ago, Raspberri said:

they just mindlessly keep fighting Kuva Guardians and don't contribute at all to the actual mission.

Sorry that's not leeching, if it bothers you go complete the mission objective and leave the Siphon to them. Since it takes so long to fail, if it's getting to that point just go back after the objective and carry them I guess.

[Raspberry]

4 minutes ago, Kimimoto said:

Sorry that's not leeching, if it bothers you go complete the mission objective and leave the Siphon to them. Since it takes so long to fail, if it's getting to that point just go back after the objective and carry them I guess.

If it takes that long to fail and it gets close to failing, it's better to let it actually fail, and I abort the mission and redo it solo. Which means, it's best if I had soloed it in the first place, not even bothering to matchmake.

[Jeon-Rammbo]

Who needs Kuva missions when you can just do sorties - you get plenty of Kuva there.

[Raspberry]

29 minutes ago, Jeon-Rammbo said:

Who needs Kuva missions when you can just do sorties - you get plenty of Kuva there.

6000 Kuva maybe once a week? If you think that's plenty of kuva, more power to you I guess, but it's absolutely pathetic in my eyes. Less than 1000 kuva PER DAY is not to my taste.

[AcceptYourDeath]

To be honest I am also often super annoyed playing Kuva Siphons. Yes you can use stealth Warframes and just wait next to a Siphon, yes you can sit there mostly in Operator mode. 

If you don`t enjoy this camping-method you are most likely shoved around by 2 or 4 invincible hard hitting enemys with all the craziness going on anyway and it just becomes super stressful at this point In the worst case you barely intercept kuva clouds on top of everything. It`s not hard to tell somebody is just very lazy and even misses timing for clouds. 

You can play the way you like in puplic matches fair enough, but don`t be surprised if others perceive it as selfish, lack of teamplay and are annoyed by it.

If you join a TEAM and want your playstyle be respected whatever it is you respect the playstyle of others. Mag doesn`t enjoy invincible enemys running around and the bare minimum would be to help out killing some guards?

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by AcceptYourDeath

[sixmille]

I think you're creating your own problem by overthinking all of this. This is a complete non-issue.