The Terrible Eidolon Hunts

[Inquizitor]

Hello everyone.

First of all, i really didn't want to complain about this, but i ran out of patience, and just have to say this.

Eidolon hunts are awful and terrible design.

With the very recent removal of raids, this is the only co-op we have left in game? Even that is so terrible, it hurts. The rewards might be good, but is it really worth the time? 

Let me point out all the bad things:

-You have to have specific warframe and weapons, also a good AMP, otherwise you are screwed (Trinity, Volt, Rhino, Chroma, Harrow....and sniper rifles, that is all, everything else is trash. Why? because of the bad design. You are literally forced to play only with these, otherwise everything you have will either not affect the eidolon, or the overall progress of the capture. Want your favorite Warframe? Guess what? You cant take it, you are forced to pick one of these, otherwise no-one will want you and you wont do much of progress)

-The Eidolon Lures are terrible (first the AI, whenever you want to aim on eidolon, they will literally GO IN FRONT OF YOUR AIM AND BLOCK YOU, this is the #2 thing i hate most about them, #1 being that they are kill-able. While still posessing a massive HP/dmg reduction, rather bad design, only Trinity can heal them to max HP, warframes like Oberon stand no chance in healing them to full HP, no matter how high ability strength. One laser of the Gauntalyst and lure is gone, and you have to take a new one...brilliant design...)

-Broken hitboxes of Synovias ("The vulnerable body parts of Eidola" have awful hitboxes. Additionally, whenever the Eidola uses any animation, the hithoxes are even worse, preventing you to literally damage it, even if aiming directly onto it. Bonus feature: Punch-through of certain weapons like Lanka (5 meters) have no effect. Shooting the spot, while its behind an arm of the Eidolon causes it to completely negate the damage)

-The Shrine is still bugged (Just had a 3x Triple Eidolon hunt in a row, we first captured the Teralyst, then arrived at shrine, and guess what? We couldn't place our shards onto it. We reseted, then tried again....guess what? Again bugged, then tried yet AGAIN, and...guess what! It worked properly!!! ....nah, just kidding, it didnt work again...literally an hour wasted, thanks for nothing, DE)

-Eidolon decides to randomly teleport ("Whatever, bye." Eidolon teleports away, ignoring the fact, that there is 8 filled Lures close at it, not even its Synovia was broken...yet the Eidolon decides to run away....)

-Magnetic "Scream" thing is disgusting (pretty much the worst part of the entire hunt. This thing totally removes entire energy capacity of warframe, even when using operator mode. I know, one can just go away, however it has one massive flaw: Eidolon Lures have tiny range. This means, if one decides to run from the energy loss, the lures will disconnect, that means eidolon teleports away. The only few solutions to this are: Covenant of Harrow, Arcane Nulifier, Energy Pads...or Oberon's Hallowed Grounds (which will give you status immunity, but the scream itself deals insane damage enough to K.O. a warframe. Worst thing is, if you go to operator mode (during Covenant or Hallowed Grounds), the warframe still looses all the energy, even under the status immunity effect. This forces everyone to bring Harrow to the raid (i like Harrow, don't get me wrong, but there is lack of customization, no freedom of going with what you want, but with what you are forced to go with, additionally, all of his abilities are rather useless [The self-fire rate buff is good, but everything else is not])

-"Visual Cancer" (My #1 hated thing about the hunt. I nicknamed it "Visual Cancer". The Eidolon Hunts are during night. Sometimes it even rains (100% rain during Hydrolist). And in this dark night, you have to suffer through massive amounts of flashing lights (FX) caused by warframe abilities, weapons, AMPs,Operator Perks (such as Energizing Dash), Vomvalysts, Lures Glowing and putting themselves in front of your screen, Glowing operator/Warframe with the picked up Vomvalyst Core... and mainly the abilities of Eidolon (worst would be Gauntalyst or whatever its called, when it uses the bright lasers, or the shield ability) Nighttime+lots of FX=Eyes bleeding....hence the nickname.

 

Edit part:

-GRASS & TREES, ROCKS & MAGNETIC WATER (because all what i mentioned above isnt enough. Let us not forget about the tall grass that blocks vision, trees that blocks vision too, additionally will block you from void-dashing through them...plus the uneven ground sometimes blocks you from moving to a good position, being stuck for tiny bit under a rock, and missing out opportunity to strike. If that was not enough, let us not forget the Eidolon can also do the stomp and easily push your warframe into magnetized water. Yassss, there goes another 10 energy pads....)

I like the idea of the co-op in the hunt. I am trying to find some positive thing (like Arcanes, Eidolon Shards, Articulas etc.)...but it all is behind this awful wall of terrible disadvantages.

Anyone else agrees?

Edited March 2, 2018 by Inquizitor
GRAAAASSSSSSS

[Gendalph]

tl;dr, I disagree on most points with you. Eidolon fights are buggy, but not bad.

5 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

You have to have specific warframe and weapons, also a good AMP, otherwise you are screwed

There is a multitude of amps you can use, with Virtuos or without (there are options in this department too, btw).

You can use any weapon you want, I've seen some good Chromas with Euphona, used Aklex and Sicarus on my Volt, Opticor is a thing, heck I've seen some people use Baza and Soma. While first two options performed comparable to most sniper rifles, most people would prefer to use snipers, it's not a requirement, but a preference.

Frame setups? Yeah, you need specific roles filled. It's always like that. Going on a raid to kill a boss? Bring a tank, a healer, and a DD, specifics are up to you. And in Warframe there are a lot of choices that yield comparable results.

11 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

The Eidolon Lures are terrible

These need another look, maybe. I remember Brozime suggesting making lures float like 10-20m above ground, tethered to Eidolon.

12 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

Broken hitboxes of Synovias

Yep. I'd put this under "Bugs" section.

13 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

The Shrine is still bugged

Yep. Tip: break your squad and leave to Orbiter when this happens.

13 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

Eidolon decides to randomly teleport

Bugs.

14 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

Magnetic "Scream" thing is disgusting

...and this is why you can either:

• Use Harrow
• Use Oberon (works on Warframe if you are standing on his grass, also Smite Infusion)
• Use Limbo
• Park Lure(s) and leave
• Use Arcane Nullifier

16 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

"Visual Cancer"

Yeah, I agree they should tone down on some effects, cuz later stages of Gantulyst and Hydrolyst are a clusterfuck.

 

There's another thing about plains that needs to be looked at, in case of disconnect or bad connection. players get "lobby split" they get host migrated to a new lobby where fight is not happening and they can't rejoin the original lobby.

I assume this to be a bug that needs fixing.

Sure, Eidolon Hunts are buggy, but overall fights are not as bad as you paint them to be.

[-skimmer-]

...do I really have to solo all 3 eidolons with an Ember just to prove you wrong?

[Gendalph]

@-skimmer- don't do that to yourself. We both know someone already soloed all 3 Eidolons. Someone else did it using a different frame and set of weapons.

[Lored]

1 минуту назад, -skimmer- сказал:

...do I really have to solo all 3 eidolons with an Ember just to prove you wrong?

If you can 2-3 runs in 1 night, it would be nice.

[Borg1611]

The worst part about Eidolon's is the day/night cycle. Expecting people to do end-game activities around that bogus clock is ridiculous. They should make Eidolon bounties stay up at all times and just start the instance at the beginning of night when you enter the plains doing one of those bounties. They can restrict arcane drops to X per day per Eidolon type rather than using a ridiculous clock. They may have convinced themselves that it's a super clever time-gate, but it is not at all. It's at best an extremely inconsiderate mechanic that doesn't respect people's time or schedules at all. Imagine if you could only do a WoW raid at specific limited periods of time during the week. On top of that you'd have to check in with a third party websites clock to plan your game time accordingly. They'd lose 50%+ of their end-game players.

Being able to do things like night fishing at any time would also be an improvement since a lot of things require mats that you can only get during the day or night. 

edit: To add more reasons why the cycle is complete garbage, the fight is very buggy. Sometimes people end up not being able to use any ability (you used to be able to fix this running into water but then after some hotfix you ended up having to die to fix it), wasting time on a limited clock. Sometimes (this just happened to me) you bug out and can not use your main weapon (no, it wasn't stolen by a grineer), sometimes you bug out and can't deploy arch charges (also happened to me at the same time) even when you have dozens, that same bug stopped void strike from functioning which I just got and was testing out... Basically, it's an alpha quality bug fest. 

In addition if you happen to get into a bad pub, or a pub that never fills, that wastes what little time you get at night to get things done after you went to the trouble to check the clock and go to cetus just as a night cycle was starting. If we could go there at any time, you'd be more understanding and not be as annoyed by it, but the limited time adds to hostility. IE: one time I went into a pub and decided to take harrow (I usually use Chroma, or Oberon or Trinity, occasionally volt). My build wasn't right for Eidolon's and my duration was way to short. Oh well, I'd fix it next time I use him and it was just a pub! Guy raged about it and then quit (causing a host migration and caused the eidolon to teleport), even though it was a pub and he had no reason to expect he'd get any magnetic proc protection in the first place. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Borg1611

[sixmille]

My concerns about the eidolons arent exactly the same, but here they are:

- restricting the fights to night time is really bad. Whenever it's up and I'm playing i feel kind of forced to do them even if I don't want to. It's very disruptive and frustrating. An instanced fight doable once a day would be much better.

- @(*()$ lures... Just, why? I get that the devs want to involve support warframes, but babysitting stupid NPCs isn't really fun at all. There are many other way to achieve that, like bleeding damage that goes through invulnerabilities and extra armors and so on.

- Restricting the fights to some specific weapons. I tried modding a shotgun properly, reached like 15k radiation damage per volley only to realize the damage per pellet was ridiculously low. Why? PoE of course doesn't even reward forma BPs in one way or another so when you took a several years break like me well it's a nightmare to get enough forma for all the specific weapons that every game mode demands. If anything, it made me decide that I wouldn't be returning if/when I quit next time because of that. 10 new weapons to forma at once or you're excluded from the newer content is insanely frustrating.

- The lack of threatening NPCs near bosses greatly restricts the numbers of warframes you can play. A lot of warframes are based on CC or AoE so that would have been nice.

Edited March 2, 2018 by sixmille

[Inquizitor]

8 hours ago, -skimmer- said:

...do I really have to solo all 3 eidolons with an Ember just to prove you wrong?

It is not about "soloing", i can take down eidolon without some immortal (Chroma, Rhino etc.) Warframe alone too, it isnt much of a big deal, but rather takes time. It was designed to be a co-op mode....yeaaaah, it is co-op, but at what price?

 

9 hours ago, Gendalph said:

tl;dr, I disagree on most points with you. Eidolon fights are buggy, but not bad.

I like the idea, i like that opportunity for team-fighting. I am just pointing out the bad implementation.

And about the bugs...yes, i actually wanted to make a separate post directly on bugs section, but i have felt like combining all the "non"-bugs with the rest of the "eh"-features would be better.

[Winterbraid]

My favorite part about the Eidolons is how they're essentially a massively inflated version of Sargas Ruk.

Both of those fights go roughly like this:

1. Hit the boss with a specific type of attack to reveal his weak points.

2. Attack his weak point for massive damage.

3. Once you've dealt enough damage to a weak point, you need to switch to another one, possibly in an awkward location.

4. I hope you can deal with all the blinding lights he's throwing at you...

[XPEHOMACTEP]

Me in the "plains" is more depressing:
1) The inability to enter the "plains" at night directly for Eidolon-hunting. I like to play with a random team, but sometimes you can spend the whole night, and always get to the "fishermen", "miners", etc. I do not understand why it is impossible to make a button "Eidolon-hunting", it will be active only at night.

2) Why, after finishing any tasks, or at least "hunting" in the "plains" - you can't invite players to leave the "plains", rather than force them to run to the exit?

[alepap1995]

I just did my first eidolon, after i crafted a decent amp and went solo with volt.

the magnetic aoe isn't a big deal, you just run away as soon as you destroy a weakspot and you won't get hit.

But, the visual cancer and constant operator dying while in voidmode at last phase just annoyed the crap out of me. It also didn't help that i was flying around trying to get ammo for the last phase. Even with a pandero with a decent riven.

[Ham_Grenabe]

If I could change only 2 things:

1. Attached Lures need to float at Eidolon shoulder/head height. Always. No exceptions. 

2. The visuals. Stop the light show. Once you’re past the teralyst, you’re guaranteed to have multiple 5-10 second periods where you have no idea what’s going on because you’re caught in a particle effects proof of concept demo. 

[tekker2234]

if I could change anything about the eidolons (other than bugs and hitboxes) they would be to just lift the damn lures up a few meters, allow more warframes to be viably used for the eidolon (ie: increase healing from sources like oby on lures add more damage weaknesses to the terry's maybe add some more teamwork elements than just having a ton of things that can be done solo [couldn't do lor solo b4 their removal] maybe add some things that the team has to do in sync in order to defeat them)

[Cryptix123]

On 3/1/2018 at 4:04 PM, Inquizitor said:

pretty much the worst part of the entire hunt. This thing totally removes entire energy capacity of warframe, even when using operator mode.

Two things wrong with this:

Magnetic procs only remove a quarter of your energy.

Going into your op mode makes your frame immune to status effects and damage unless channeling an ability.

[NezuHimeSama]

Am I still the only one noticing that Hydrolyst randomly procs a weapon switch animation? Interrupting any weapon action?

Also, the constant random magnetic procs are horrible. Better not bless, because otherwise your health and energy is drained as soon as you pop out of operator, assuming you aren't already dead. There's also very limited ways to heal lures, pretty much just Broberon and Trinity work here, and Oberon provides no DR.

Lures should just not exist, honestly. They get in the way constantly, force you to use escort frames to keep them alive, make a mess of being able to take advantage of terrain, and turn what could have been an interesting big-game hunt into a cluster#*!%. Not fun at all. Why even do this in Plains? It's big and open, why can't I use vantage points? Why am I stuck at the bottom of a hill shooting up this thing's ass in hopes that the game decides to fire lanka in a straight line?

 

Both gantulyst and Hydrolyst are even more RNG spam than Teralyst was, and that was always the low point of fighting Teralyst. It's just kinda random. If it moves, well, gfl hitting it since hitboxes are A: fuct and B: even if they weren't, it's going to cover it's weakpoints constantly at random, with no real way to predict what it's going to do. This is even more of an issue on Gantulyst and Hydrolyst, since you need to basically fight it from it's feet, just because it's too tall.

And the random invulnerability blobs for vomvalysts? $&*^ move, and also bugged. When they die, Vomvas can be left invulnerable or given overshields. I've had multiple cases where a vomvalyst couldn't be killed, ending the hunt.

 

Unairu wisps are also pretty much completely invisible. I've spammed out 4 of them, and I legitimately could not see them. They were there and when I picked them up I saw where they were, but I stared for several seconds, and at no point did I see anything that said "there's my pickup". And you don't even get any kind of decent visual indication. It doesn't even show up on the bottom of the screen as a pickup, like every other pickup in the game does.

The random bullet attract procs also completely #*!% your operator weapons. What, you want to do damage? Too bad, bullet attract right in your way. Great. More RNG to get randomly #*!%ed by.

 

Yeah, Eidolons were always badly designed, right from the start. They've only gotten worse, but gotta get dem arcanes and progress. I think once the arcane market crashes, people will stop running them and DE will realize no one liked that anyway, like with Raids, and let them rot.

[nerfinator6]

5 hours ago, Cryptix123 said:

Two things wrong with this:

Magnetic procs only remove a quarter of your energy.

Going into your op mode makes your frame immune to status effects and damage unless channeling an ability.

but that's wrong.

[Wiergate]

5 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Am I still the only one noticing that Hydrolyst randomly procs a weapon switch animation? Interrupting any weapon action?

Not just the Hydrolist, but all of them. By the look of things several AoE attacks prompt a melee block animation and/or weapon swap animation. This can happen whether you successfully dodge the attack or not, although a failure to dodge will have either of those animations competing with a stagger animation for attention.  
For whatever reason this happens to me nearly consistently when running solo but only sometimes in a squad.
This can be insanely annoying when running solo since it puts a heavy delay on attempting to trigger transference which may or may not get you killed or exposed to a magnetic proc.  

 

5 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

This is even more of an issue on Gantulyst and Hydrolyst, since you need to basically fight it from it's feet, just because it's too tall.

 

DE, can we talk about camera sensitivity, inconsistencies in camera sensitivity settings when using a controller on PC and the problem with X/Y axis alignment on a controller - which in turn is exacerbated by said inconsistencies? I've been pleasantly surprised by controller fixes before, all the more reason to bring it to your attention apart from what's already been said in the pinned topic in 'General'. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Wiergate
detail

[Inquizitor]

10 hours ago, Cryptix123 said:

Magnetic procs only remove a quarter of your energy.

Yes, Quarter of energy PER TICK / PER SECOND

The scream lasts entire 5 seconds, just so you know.

[Cryptix123]

13 minutes ago, Inquizitor said:

Yes, Quarter of energy PER TICK / PER SECOND

The scream lasts entire 5 seconds, just so you know.

The scream is also heavily forecasted by you know THE EIDOLON SLUMPING OVER FOR 10 SECONDS. Plus the moment before the scream everything goes quiet.

[alepap1995]

Also you sometimes get stuck in an infinite loop of dying in void mode.

Which shouldn't happen in the first place

[alepap1995]

10 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Am I still the only one noticing that Hydrolyst randomly procs a weapon switch animation? Interrupting any weapon action?

4 hours ago, Wiergate said:

Not just the Hydrolist, but all of them. By the look of things several AoE attacks prompt a melee block animation and/or weapon swap animation. This can happen whether you successfully dodge the attack or not, although a failure to dodge will have either of those animations competing with a stagger animation for attention.  
For whatever reason this happens to me nearly consistently when running solo but only sometimes in a squad.
This can be insanely annoying when running solo since it puts a heavy delay on attempting to trigger transference which may or may not get you killed or exposed to a magnetic proc.  

Might it be Power Drift?

 

[NezuHimeSama]

It's definitely not power drift. I haven't seen it on Gantulyst as Trinity(Cunning Drift), but on Hydrolyst, every frame can be prompted to weaponswitch by the wave things coming out of Hydrolyst. Which are the same color as the rest of the cluster#*!%, and therefore basically invisible. Pretty sure it's those wave things that look like Excalibur swordbeams, anyway.

The frequency also increases as the fight progresses, and if you're running solo, you're the only target. It's a problem.

[NezuHimeSama]

8 hours ago, Wiergate said:

DE, can we talk about camera sensitivity, inconsistencies in camera sensitivity settings when using a controller on PC and the problem with X/Y axis alignment on a controller - which in turn is exacerbated by said inconsistencies? I've been pleasantly surprised by controller fixes before, all the more reason to bring it to your attention apart from what's already been said in the pinned topic in 'General'. 

Make sure you change your Arcwing scoped sensitivity setting to match your normal scoped sensitivity setting.

I reported on that bug a while back, not sure if anyone noticed.

[Wiergate]

13 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Make sure you change your Arcwing scoped sensitivity setting to match your normal scoped sensitivity setting.

I reported on that bug a while back, not sure if anyone noticed.

I didn't, no, but I looked it up now.

Don't know how many issues that will solve, currently the Plains are unplayable for me without grabbing a mouse for things like fishing and mining - and that's a mouse I toggle down to half of its normal DPI since I can't get any consistency in which sensitivity is being used for which task. 

Def. worth a look though, thanks.

[Tyrian3k]

The concept and basic design is fine in my eyes, but there are simply a ton of bugs like getting knocked back while in void mode, eidolons randomly teleporting, eidolons not spawning or the unreliable hitboxes that apparently got even worse with the last update. I couldn't get a single hit on any synovia and was greeted with nonstop grey 0s in my most recent runs, even though I only fired when I could see the health bar.

But the worst thing outside of bugs are definitely the lures. Having to herd 2-3 of them is already annoying most of the time, but when you have to her 8 of them around it is just a recipe for desaster. I can deal with keeping them alive, but they still get in your way constantly and seem to love hovering right in Volt shields when you're trying to shoot through them. Worst thing is that DE acknowledged that Vomvalysts aren't vampires and don't die in sunlight, but apparently still think that eidolon lures are in fact vampires that do die once the morning sun hits them.

It would already help a great deal if Lures were reusable, so you'd only use the same three to do all three eidolons, but with how bad they currently are, I wouldn't mind if they were removed entirely. I can't think of a single instance in any game where I found an enjoyable babysitting section. They always turn out to be horrendous.

I mean, just look at what the defense target in a sortie kuva fortress defense is doing. "Hey look! Toxic gas! Flamethrowers! Tesla turrets! Let's go check all of them out!"