Nyx has been ignored for too long by both the devs and the community

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Am 9.3.2018 um 03:29 schrieb NezuHimeSama:

Weird, I distinctly remember stacking globes to absorb damage and using it to oneshot some very high level enemies.

Nah that got nothing to do with it. It was and still is part of the globes push mechanic. If an enemy is pushed by the globe and it hits a surface, that enemy gets 50% of theyr health as damage flat. The health scaling off the recieved damage is something else entirely.

If that in any way synergiced together then it was probably a bug.

Edited March 10, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

Hate her 4th. Hate her passive. 

I tried to give her some love, but she just really bites the dust on most things I've tried. Mind controlling a powerful unit with great CC, and sometimes great buff to yourself is a given, but once their disarmed such as flying units in Plains, their worthless.

[NezuHimeSama]

10 hours ago, TKDancer said:

ITS LITERALLY ALL IT DOES, you absorb all incoming dmg to deal it back to attackers, except its so bad at it that its reduced to an awkward method of tanking IF u have the augment, as someone said in another thread, "If the ability isn't worth jack squat to begin with, it needs a rework."

 

unless u count a piss poor knockdown that is worse than the sonicor's as "CC" and use that as justification to say its fine as it is, as you've done for idk how many comments so far

 

you keep coming up with ridiculous comparisons and justifications its  absurd

 

Just a friendly reminder.

Quote

It doesn't need to be a DPS smasher 4frame to do that thing

Quote

Not everything needs to be a DPS smasher 4frame

Easily one of the best defensive moves in the game. It doesn't need to smash too.

[TKDancer]

38 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Easily one of the best defensive moves in the game. It doesn't need to smash too.

its not one of the best defensive moves in the game

 

you are literally turning to covering your ears and repeating the same stuff over and over now

 

and i still havent heard an answer to why having "another 4 smasher" is bad but having yet another tank CC frame(that can only tank with an aug to let u move) is okay despite how many of those we already got specially considering gunplay is the thing that least varies from frame to frame

Edited March 10, 2018 by TKDancer

[NezuHimeSama]

I'm repeating the same thing over and over because you still don't get it. All you've done is whine that it doesn't do damage and you can't move without the augment. Neither of those things take away from the move's defensive properties.

[Azamagon]

17 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I'm repeating the same thing over and over because you still don't get it. All you've done is whine that it doesn't do damage and you can't move without the augment. Neither of those things take away from the move's defensive properties.

Being unable to do damage during the ability, nor being able to move either, makes the defensive properties rather... well, not moot (as you can defend a cryopod or whatever), but that makes it not as great as you'd think. Not to mention how BORING it is, since you can't do ANYTHING during the ability (same issue that Soundquake has, but that skill can at least kill stuff during its cast).

Even when it's AUGMENTED it is basicly a really, REALLY crippled version of normal Defy...

Edited March 10, 2018 by Azamagon

[NezuHimeSama]

Deify is pretty unreliable, has a massive drain on energy, and runs out very quickly. I wouldn't call trading off some movement for actually being usable as a reliable form of tank "crippled", especially considering the rest of Wukong's moveset when compared to Nyx.

Also, it's a defensive move. It defends, and provides some very absolute defense. More reliable than frost, limbo, gara, ect, on top of it's effective HP scaling both with efficiency(4x) and energy pool(3.75x) for a total of 15x base.

It's perfectly fine as is. If you don't like it, don't use it.

[Azamagon]

20 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

1) That's neat and all, but being able to play as an enemy isn't as simple an idea as you might think.

2) Also, if our mods affected the target, it would be pretty OP, since they already have scaling weapon base stats. If it replaced the scaling enemy stats, then you'd just wind up with generic weapons you can already use. On that note, it'd be nice if enemies didn't have broken AF scaling, and in stead scaled in a manner similar to a modded tenno, with similar limitations.

3) I don't see why you would need to be in absorb for the two to work, either. It'd just be a bit dumb to leave nyx hanging while you romp around as an elite lancer.

1) Hence why I said "simple". Notice those apostrophies? They were put there for a reason.

2) I bet DE could aid with the scaling. Like, you get their tankiness-scaling, and then you either get their damage-scaling (with some boost to it, maybe Mind Freak should be baked in?), OR you get your personal weapon modding instead. Even if it'd be "generic", it'd still be better than just sit and do nothing in the Absorb-bubble.

3) Why only during Absorb? Because of several reasons:

• During Absorb you can currently do NOTHING. Controlling an enemy manually alleviates that issue in a very unique way.
• During Absorb you are very tanky, so you can "ignore" Nyx to an extent while running around with your MC-target
• It wouldn't just be a bit dumb to leave Nyx hanging without Absorb while you run around with the MC-target. Because without Absorb, Nyx is complete paper-mode.
• It's kind of similar to how Navigator works; When you fly around with the projectile, Ivara turns invisible. In Nyx's case, who doesn't have invisibility in her kit, Absorb makes sense to be her protection while playing with the MC-target.

[Guest]

Just now, NezuHimeSama said:

More reliable than frost, limbo, gara, ect

Limbo is the most absolute defense for any objective in the game bar none for now. Stasis + Cactaclysm is not something that Nyx can outdo with her 4 used for defense (since you can't shoot inside absorb's field either, so Stasis preventing gunfire is irrelevant here) and has infinite scaling as it is just hard CC. Also, as enemy levels increase, Nyx 4 will eat up energy faster and faster. Limbo doesn't have that issue. Gara also has her 2 for defense of targeted entities. So no, Nyx 4 isn't as good as you say it is :P

I play Chaos Nyx anyway, and use Assimilate only for fun with Lenz

[TKDancer]

7 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Deify is pretty unreliable, has a massive drain on energy, and runs out very quickly. I wouldn't call trading off some movement for actually being usable as a reliable form of tank "crippled", especially considering the rest of Wukong's moveset when compared to Nyx.

Also, it's a defensive move. It defends, and provides some very absolute defense. More reliable than frost, limbo, gara, ect, on top of it's effective HP scaling both with efficiency(4x) and energy pool(3.75x) for a total of 15x base.

It's perfectly fine as is. If you don't like it, don't use it.

rage and hunter adrenaline are a thing

 

a "defensive move" that prevents you from moving, if only we had other frames that could create barriers.... oh wait, we do :^0 we also have one that quite literally stops time

 

its not fine as it is, stop being so stubborn

[NezuHimeSama]

Forgot about stasis, so that's fair.

Gara's targeted 2 is a 90% DR, though, and honestly, nobody seems to use it on anything but themselves anyway.

 

Just now, TKDancer said:

rage and hunter adrenaline are a thing

 

a "defensive move" that prevents you from moving, if only we had other frames that could create barriers.... oh wait, we do :^0 we also have one that quite literally stops time

 

its not fine as it is, stop being so stubborn

Rage doesn't charge from self damage, and deify doesn't have an area of protection.

[Azamagon]

3 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

1) Deify is pretty unreliable,
2) has a massive drain on energy, and runs out very quickly. I wouldn't call trading off some movement for actually being usable as a reliable form of tank "crippled",
3) especially considering the rest of Wukong's moveset when compared to Nyx.

4) Also, it's a defensive move. It defends, and provides some very absolute defense. More reliable than frost, limbo, gara, ect, on top of it's effective HP scaling both with efficiency(4x) and energy pool(3.75x) for a total of 15x base.

5) It's perfectly fine as is. If you don't like it, don't use it.

1) Defy is unreliable? Are you speaking out your behind? It's 100% reliable.
2) Massive energy drain? Absorb drains 4 energy per second and 8 more energy for every 1k damage taken. I.e. she is not truly invincible, her durability has a limit.
Defy drains a plain 5 energy per second, and supposedly another 25% of current energy when he "dies", but this drain doesn't seem to be working properly (i.e. it drains far less energy than it is supposed to). Regardless, there is no limit to how much damage he can take in that regard, and Rage can counteract the drain entirely, which Nyx can't with Absorb.
Also, you aren't trading SOME movement, you are trading ALL movement with Absorb. AND all weaponbased damage-dealing. Only with the augment can you do something, and even then, it's still massively crippled.
3) Wukong's remaining kit needs attention too, yes, but so what? So does Nyx!

4) Are you joking? I'd take ANY of those over Nyx for the sake of Defense (as you can deplete all of Nyx's energy by accidental misfire, thus rendering her defensive capabilities near useless) And LIMBO?? Limbo can go untouched for as long as he wants. Nyx has a definite roof to her tanking. Unlike Wukong, Limbo, Frost's globe (you know it has a 4 second invulnerability period, right?), Gara's enemy-healthscaling, Rhino's Iron Skin invulnerability etc. Yes, she can be tanky, but she is NOT immortal. Far from it.

5) ... really? You resorted to that argument? That's just basicly "admitting defeat" when you retort to that response...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Gara's targeted 2 is a 90% DR, though, and honestly, nobody seems to use it on anything but themselves anyway.

90% DR, which will allow whatever you want to protect to live long enough to expand another wall. Which refreshes the duration of the DR.

Also, I use it in Sortie defense all the time on the operative. You just encountered those players which use Gara as MR fodder.

[TKDancer]

21 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Forgot about stasis, so that's fair.

Gara's targeted 2 is a 90% DR, though, and honestly, nobody seems to use it on anything but themselves anyway.

 

Rage doesn't charge from self damage, and deify doesn't have an area of protection.

how do you forget about a central part of his kit

 

90% DR that applies after armor and has infinitely scaling damage, and i commonly see gara's cover me and others in glass shards

 

Rage/Adrenaline allows wukong to avoid death fro prolonged periods of time before having to refresh it, unless you want to constantly fire lenz shots on ur feet thats all you need

Edited March 10, 2018 by TKDancer

[TKDancer]

1 minute ago, Azamagon said:

5) ... really? You resorted to that argument? That's just basicly "admitting defeat" when you retort to that response...

they've been using that argument for a while now, pretty sure we're talking to a wall

[Azamagon]

Just now, TKDancer said:

they've been using that argument for a while now, pretty sure we're talking to a wall

If his wall is as durable as Snow Globe's initial period, let's just ignore him then :P

[NezuHimeSama]

What does it matter if it applies before or after armor? The result will be the same; 90% dr. If people used it, it would be great. It's just DR, though, and not as comprehensive as absorb.

Deify drains a portion of your remaining energy relative to it's total amount, and doesn't activate if your energy is below that. On top of that, the amount of health restored is reduced at each drain, meaning you need to toggle it off and on again frequently. It burns through energy far faster than absorb could ever hope to. Afaik, these numbers aren't affected by anything. They're fixed, or at least that's how it was the last time I played Wukong.

Absorb on the other hand, drains 1 energy per second, plus 2 per 1000 damage. Nyx has 150 base energy, 225 at rank 30. Without Primed Flow multiplying that, it's already 112,500 damage absorption, replenishable by 12,500 per 25 energy orb, or 25,000 per 50 energy orb. With arcane energize, that can be up to 125,000 from a single energy pickup. With primed flow, that's around 394,000 damage, still replenishable in the tens of thousands from single energy drops. The only danger, besides teammates doing 40k+ damage at a time, is energy leech eximus, which are always OP.

With the augment, you trade some movement to be an effective tank. Without, you trade all movement to be substantially larger damage nullification zone. With or without, it's still a pretty effective move. Easily one of the best defensive moves in the game.

Wukong's entire remaining kit is a terrible exaulted stick, a super jump that's only value comes from an exploitable bug, and... I don't even remember? Oh right, cloud walk. Which isn't bad, actually. Counterintuitive to a tank build, though. Wukong just was not thought out at all. Compare that with two of the best support moves in the entire game.

Limbo can't damage things while invulnerable, except with the use of the time freeze, which actually auto-ends once enough bullets are caught in it. That can be unpredictable and unpredictably catastrophic in a moment's notice.

 

There is nothing that can touch nyx's absorb, still.  Not a single thing can provide that kind of damage absorption to that kind of area that reliably without some kind of wretched catch to go with it. The augment just makes it even more game-breakingly overpowered by letting you continue to rek everything in sight while doing so, and even move around. Quite quickly, too, if you know how.

[oneforsaken]

On 3/8/2018 at 5:57 AM, BiancaRoughfin said:

Try grabbing a Bombard or Napalm in Sorties and see the damage it does to see if the skill isnt worth it, specially with the Augment, same goes for Ancient Healers who your team can benefit from his heals and buffs.

Radiation proc from the Augmented Radial Disarm only lasts 6 seconds no matter how much Power Duration you have. Nyx's Chaos can last much longer and with the Augment it can keep a large area affected by it.

Main and Absorb are both two completely different mechanics, one applies a constant DoT to an area and stacks damage based on the damage delth, the other absorbs and amplifies the damage absorbed and can be charged much faster before released. The augment only reduces the Skill's range and allows the player to move with it active. Only change i think needs to be made is changing the Element from her 4th skill from Magnetic to something else like Blast.

This tenno got it right, nyx is essentially a chaotic frame that is defensive in nature, and every ability of her is kinda okayish, they just nerfed her ult not letting it soak up friendly fire since you could make a nuke that deletes everything if ur friends had good weapons. Never the less in warframe there is a consistent meta the past few years proven by limbo rework and hydorid rework who can lockout mobs from the other players, and nidus/mesa being the all time favorites from everyone i met. The point is when i started i wanted nyx so badly, "it was cool" until i figured it sucks, and later on i figured out that if it was broken also like some frames there would be no need for a play style that nyx offers defensive chaos. Making everything what you face do what you want or using your mind to control the engagement like it's meant by psychedelic nyx themed warframe. Honestly the doctor from x man who's in the wheelchair can't make some op stuff but that's his role. So much as how i see nyx all these years.

[TKDancer]

23 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

What does it matter if it applies before or after armor? The result will be the same; 90% dr.

omggggggg no it wont

 

% DR from abilities such as splinter storm apply after armor, so a frame with, lets say, 3000EHP thanks to their armor gets 90% DR, their EHP jumps to 30000

23 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Deify drains a portion of your remaining energy relative to it's total amount,

no, it drains a portion of your current energy, not based on total max energy, and thanks to rage your current energy is jumping up constantly, and if one feels like the drain on the next defy is gonna be too high they can just refresh it

 

23 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Absorb on the other hand, drains 1 energy per second, plus 2 per 1000 damage

no its 4 per second at base and 8 per 1k dmg, and at sorties and above(and eidolon hunts) that extra cost per 1k dmg comes fast and constantly

 

23 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Wukong's entire remaining kit is a terrible exaulted stick, a super jump that's only value comes from an exploitable bug, and... I don't even remember?

and nyx's kit is a wide spread radiation proc with longer duration, 2 useless skills, and the skill in question: absorb which is also awful as it currently is and worthless without the augment

 

23 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Limbo can't damage things while invulnerable, except with the use of the time freeze, which actually auto-ends once enough bullets are caught in it. That can be unpredictable and unpredictably catastrophic in a moment's notice.

you do know frozen enemies cant fire bullets and therefore cant force end stasis, right?

 

the only times you are gonna see stasis be forced to end is when you want to force allies into the rift via cataclysm, which u can avoid by just using banish and rift surge

23 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

There is nothing that can touch nyx's absorb, still.  Not a single thing can provide that kind of damage absorption to that kind of area that reliably without some kind of wretched catch to go with it.

snowglobe and cataclysm(as long as allies are in with the strat, if not banish and surge do the job as well) can, but you decided that they cant for some god forsaken reason

Edited March 10, 2018 by TKDancer

[TKDancer]

9 minutes ago, Forsaken. said:

 Honestly the doctor from x man who's in the wheelchair can't make some op stuff but that's his role. So much as how i see nyx all these years.

charles cant magically absorb incoming dmg to deal it back

 

also jean grey's existence kinda blows that comparison out of the water

Edited March 10, 2018 by TKDancer

[oneforsaken]

1 minute ago, TKDancer said:

charles cant magically absorb incoming dmg to deal it back

 

also jean grey's existence kinda blows that comparison out of the water

I tried my my man, i was more going in the direction with patience and very accurate decision making, you can claim victory with either charles or nyx :D

[NezuHimeSama]

So let's look at this math here.

300 * 90% dr from armor = 10 * 90% dr from ability = 10. That's 300*10*10 = 30,000.

300 * 90% dr from ability= 10 * 90% dr from armor = 10. That's 300*10*10 = 30,000.

90% dr is 90% dr. It's 10x ehp no matter where you slot it in.

 

Nobody with any sense is going to use less than 75% efficiency on Nyx. She even has an arcane helmet that provides +15% efficiency, meaning 175 can be achieved by a single mod. It would be stupid not to take advantage of that and reduce the energy drain per 1k to 2 and per second to 1.

Nyx's kit is: 

A far more reliable aggro redirection than radiation with a controllable duration that can be cast with a 100% proc rate on a massive area, with the potential to be augmented to leave behind an area of effect that auto-procs for you. Plus, it stuns for 3 seconds on proc. So, it's more like radiation + blast in one go.

A fantastic situational support move that provides a decoy that can draw aggro, deal damage, and provide area of effect bonuses to damage reduction, damage output, and damage resistance.

A S#&$ty move no one cares about and should definitely be reworked into something else, de pls

One of the best damage mitigations in the entire game.

 

Wide range stasis is vulnerable to nullifiers, short range stasis is vulnerable to external fire, and both are vulnerable to allies, including sentinels.

 

Frost's globe ehp can't touch Nyx's bubble ehp for most if not all of the relevant content, and it doesn't provide damage nullification within the globe. Limbo's is weak to allied units and high fire rate/high multishot weapons.

Edited March 10, 2018 by NezuHimeSama
Corrected 3000 down to 300

[TKDancer]

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Nobody with any sense is going to use less than 75% efficiency on Nyx. She even has an arcane helmet that provides +15% efficiency

screw new players i guess, also you do realize arcane helmets are discontinued right and that the few in existence are ludicrously expensive right?

 

and as i already said multiple times, 1k dmg happens super commonly at high levels, i'll basically have that extra cost going off constantly, specially on elemental/phys enhance sorties

 

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Nyx's kit is: 

A far more reliable aggro redirection than radiation with a controllable duration that can be cast with a 100% proc rate on a massive area, with the potential to be augmented to leave behind an area of effect that auto-procs for you. Plus, it stuns for 3 seconds on proc. So, it's more like radiation + blast in one go.

yes, her 1 good ability, but reminder that an augment loki was so good chaos needed a buff to kinda keep up

 

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

A fantastic situational support move that provides a decoy that can draw aggro, deal damage, and provide area of effect bonuses to damage reduction, damage output, and damage resistance.

i imagine you're talking about mind control here? her previous move already makes everyone into a decoy, having 1(one) that wont target you isnt a big improvement

 

and "deal deal damage" lol

 

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

A S#&$ty move no one cares about and should definitely be reworked into something else, de pls

yes

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

 

One of the best damage mitigations in the entire game.

 

 

no, its already been discussed time and time again, but your little bubble seems to be unable to let criticism through :^/

 

no movement without aug, extremely limited movement with aug

 

subpar blast range without, even worse with it

 

subpar dmg output, made worse with the limited range

 

can you use it for tanking with the aug? yes, abso-freaking-lutely you can, but its a subpar tanking method considering all our other tank frames unless u just want that one frame that can fire a lenz "arrow" into ur feet without dying

 

 

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Wide range stasis is vulnerable to nullifiers, short range stasis is vulnerable to external fire, and both are vulnerable to allies, including sentinels.

 

Frost's globe ehp can't touch Nyx's bubble ehp for most if not all of the relevant content, and it doesn't provide damage nullification within the globe. Limbo's is weak to allied units and high fire rate/high multishot weapons.

thats why banish and rift surge exist, so u dont rely entirely on cataclysm bubbles

 

and absorb is also vulnerable to nullies so idk what your point is, if u dont have the aug and a nullie is coming ur way u either let it dispel absorb or u dispel it urself and maybe die cause of its long recovery, maybe get away

 

u do realize the base HP for snow globe is 5k and u can keep stacking it on top of each other to add more EHP to old globe indefinitely + the 4 seconds of invulnerability where it absorbs dmg to strength the globe... right? plus avalanche being able to freeze anything not inside a nullie's bubble

 

limbo is my most played and i've never had a sentinel dispel  stasis, neither the artax, nor the deth machine gun could do it

 

and as i said as long as you arent forcing allies that dont want to be in the rift into it, u wont deal with stasis being forced to end, and even in situations where this happens limbo can easily get away from trouble

[TKDancer]

2 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

So let's look at this math here.

300 * 90% dr from armor = 10 * 90% dr from ability = 10. That's 300*10*10 = 30,000.

3000 * 90% dr from ability= 10 * 90% dr from armor = 10. That's 300*10*10 = 30,000.

90% dr is 90% dr. It's 10x ehp no matter where you slot it in.

 

also thats not how the math works

 

u literally changed 3000 to 300 on ur second calculation, what are you doing

 

300 hp + 90% DR from ARMOR= 3000 EHP

 

add 90% DR from an ability AFTER armor is applied, so its 90% DR to the 3000 EHP, making it 30000 EHP

Edited March 10, 2018 by TKDancer

[NezuHimeSama]

It's still easy to achieve 175% eff without the helmet, just that it only takes a single mod to do with it. Not every frame needs to be OP in the hands of every novice in the game. Not that Nyx's scaling is any different from efficiency on any frame. If you're talking about a frame being useless, though, stop using it unmodded.

I've used Nyx in sorties, I know exactly how often that 1k damage occurs. The fact of the matter is, it's insignificant in the face of Nyx's high default energy pool, much less with Flow or Primed Flow.(neither of which I use, since her pool is already so high for the insignificant cost of absorb)

Not sure what you're loling at. Toxic Ancients, Ancient Healers, Scorches, Bombards, Corpus Techs, all vulnerable to mind control.

Your own little bubble seems incapable of recognizing anything that isn't a DPS smasher 4frame. Get out of your bubble sometime, and play the game.

Snowglobe stacks all of twice. 5k ehp * let's be generous 3x = 15k *2 = 30k + up to 8s of damage.

Sweeper dispels Stasis pretty quick.

Yeah the 3000 was a typo, should be 300 to match up with the first set. Point being that 300 *10(/0.9) *10(/0.9) = 30,000 every time. It doesn't matter where you apply it. You can even swap the base HP value with the EHP multiplication from DR, watch

10*300*10 = 30,000 lewow.