so rhino can be a better tank than valkyr, makes sense.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 3/23/2018 at 8:06 PM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

How so? Her only way to stay alive outside of hysteria is while constantly channeling life strike.

I disagree and posted a Healing Return 80min MoT fissure run a couple replies above.

But to be fair Healing Return really only works because so many enemies are grouped up with Ranged Prolonged Paralysis for each melee strike to hit multiple targets. 

[Andaius]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

I can run 80+mins solo as Valkyr, just make sure to have Enemy Sense/Enemy Radar/Vigilante Pursuit

Prolonged Paralysis doesn't allow for Finishers for Riven chellenges, unless Ground finishers are counting towards Riven challenge. (In which case, that is me learning something new)*

Normal Paralysis or just Charge attack-Hysteria works for landing finishers any & everywhere.

Prolonged Paralysis pulling enemies all together and basically costing no energy pair extremely well with Hysteria Spin attack maximizing her inherently low-range melee attacks. Making it more efficient for actually killing enemies.

If Only Paralysis(Prolonged Paralysis) would pull flying drones down 🤣

 

As Valkyr is currently she still has very high no ability in-use Effective health pool. Making her Nullifier tankybif a player does not have a weapon or Operator to cheese Nullifiers.

Her Prolonged Paralysis was better than Rhino Stomp back when Stomp could not be recast unless all affected enemies were killed.

Valkyr deserves some ability to tweaks to rasie her quality of life.

Rip-line + Melee attack results in Animation-locl Wall Attack which is not combat fluid. (Really needs a new Augment ... Current Augment lost any merit when Rip-line received combo cast mechanic. Still not sure why it is not even an Exilus eligible mod as you cannot perform 4 Free Ripline cast attacks in the air as attacking with Ripline results in an animation that drops you to the floor versus using it as mobility.)

WarCry should be able to be recast, this would allow for it be reusable as an enemy Slow. (Stomp can be recast and affects more bosses including Eidolons...I have no words for DE's measure of Balance) Eternal War should then function more like Resonance Sonar, where each Melee kill can be a smaller range Enemy Slow or AoE enemy slow equal to the amount of time added to WarCry duration.

I feel normal Paralysis should add to the Melee hit counter on Valkyr or be able to be cast mid-melee combo like Volt's Speed. To keep melee combat fluid. (Also as noted earlier should ground drones)

Currently Paralysis knockback effect only Ragdolls dead bodies and does not Knock back/Ragdoll enemies like it used to. (Used to behave like a 360° Sonic Boom)**

 

Well technically, her paraysis scales in powewr with the amount of shields you explode. So it could be that your shields aren't full when you hit some enemies and they don't stagger.

[Shaw1996]

1 hour ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

I can run 80+mins solo as Valkyr, just make sure to have Enemy Sense/Enemy Radar/Vigilante Pursuit

Prolonged Paralysis doesn't allow for Finishers for Riven chellenges, unless Ground finishers are counting towards Riven challenge. (In which case, that is me learning something new)*

Normal Paralysis or just Charge attack-Hysteria works for landing finishers any & everywhere.

Prolonged Paralysis pulling enemies all together and basically costing no energy pair extremely well with Hysteria Spin attack maximizing her inherently low-range melee attacks. Making it more efficient for actually killing enemies.

If Only Paralysis(Prolonged Paralysis) would pull flying drones down 🤣

 

As Valkyr is currently she still has very high no ability in-use Effective health pool. Making her Nullifier tankybif a player does not have a weapon or Operator to cheese Nullifiers.

Her Prolonged Paralysis was better than Rhino Stomp back when Stomp could not be recast unless all affected enemies were killed.

Valkyr deserves some ability to tweaks to rasie her quality of life.

Rip-line + Melee attack results in Animation-locl Wall Attack which is not combat fluid. (Really needs a new Augment ... Current Augment lost any merit when Rip-line received combo cast mechanic. Still not sure why it is not even an Exilus eligible mod as you cannot perform 4 Free Ripline cast attacks in the air as attacking with Ripline results in an animation that drops you to the floor versus using it as mobility.)

WarCry should be able to be recast, this would allow for it be reusable as an enemy Slow. (Stomp can be recast and affects more bosses including Eidolons...I have no words for DE's measure of Balance) Eternal War should then function more like Resonance Sonar, where each Melee kill can be a smaller range Enemy Slow or AoE enemy slow equal to the amount of time added to WarCry duration.

I feel normal Paralysis should add to the Melee hit counter on Valkyr or be able to be cast mid-melee combo like Volt's Speed. To keep melee combat fluid. (Also as noted earlier should ground drones)

Currently Paralysis knockback effect only Ragdolls dead bodies and does not Knock back/Ragdoll enemies like it used to. (Used to behave like a 360° Sonic Boom)**

 

Yeah Ground attacks count as finishers when you are using Prolonged Paralysis in Riven Challenges. The thing about Valkyr is she got a lot of hidden Mechanics like to slow down Paraysis paralyze movement, you have to use WarCry, She can't build the Combo Counter when you combine Paralysis and Hysteria but finishing the enemy off with Hysteria itself does (Synergy issue with those two abilities but only minor), WarCry increase the speed of her Talons, Finishers in Hysteria can bring Valkyr back to full health, etc. Recasting WarCry would be nice though. DE probably have to update the description of her abilities because it's not like it's dead easy to fiqure out how she works like Octavia.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Shaw1996

[(PSN)MrNishi]

30 minutes ago, Andaius said:

Well technically, her paraysis scales in powewr with the amount of shields you explode. So it could be that your shields aren't full when you hit some enemies and they don't stagger.

That is Shield damage and Paralysis staggers enemies even if Shields are depleted.

The Knockback on Paralysis was equivalent to Sonic Boom Ragdoll: I used to complain that is was not melee-friednly for a Melee frame to throw true enemis away with what was her only Short range stun. Counter-intuitive.

The Knockback strength has persisted in Arsenal UI stat, but the actual Knockback (Ragdoll) to enemies is no longer present in gameplay unless enemy is killed by Paralysis cast or deadbody was hit by Paralysis.

Likewise Prolonged Paralysis: Used to have an inner pull Cirlce but outer AoE would only apply normal Paralysis stagger/cast. Then after removing Prolonged Paralysis being a longer Finisher setup and changed to ground finishers the Augment also pulled enemies from full Range of ability.

27 minutes ago, Shaw1996 said:

Yeah Ground attacks count as finishers in Riven Challenges. The thing about Valkyr is she got a lot of hidden Mechanics like to slow down Paraysis paralyze movement,

Thanks I was switching to Old Valkyr CC combo : Paralysis + WarCry (slows enemy recovery from Stagger) for the Riven challenges and did not realize I could have just used normal Prolonged Paralysis build for the ground finishers (Back to Obex for those Rivens)

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb (PS4)MrNishi:

I disagree and posted a Healing Return 80min MoT fissure run a couple replies above.

But to be fair Healing Return really only works because so many enemies are grouped up with Ranged Prolonged Paralysis for each melee strike to hit multiple targets. 

Yeah that's 2 methods for 2 different playstyles. I channel on an eternal war build using a riven with both channeling efficiency and damage so it's pretty much free too, not that i need much energy anyways...

Point remains tho that you need that stuff. Desperately. What's somewhat of a joke for a frame that's meant to be tanky.

[Shaw1996]

I'm probably the one who don't use Healing Return or Life Strike with Valkyr. I use her abilities to stay alive. Actually, I don't think i use life strike or Healing return for any frame.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

.. 

Point remains tho that you need that stuff. Desperately. What's somewhat of a joke for a frame that's meant to be tanky.

Yeah very true. I strongly concur.

However she has more or less been that way even since old Floaty - Punch Hysteria pre GU13, before melee stances when we had quick-Block, & Obex Sexy Slam.

Long-lived Magistar and Obex pre-speed nerfs.

 

It seems odd to me that some frames need a lot more work to be viable in content and then you have a frame like Octavia or Nidus, where a single build is basically viable for all levels of gameplay including endless or even taking unmodded weapons into hard content.

 

I will always have as spot for my 3 Valkyr's, and I will remain hopeful that at the very least she will receive some tweaks that improve anmation casting fluidity, if not Survivability changes.

[Shaw1996]

Since she's a Berserker, I doubt there's going to be survivability changes. IMO, NIdus is more limited to Endless since most of his Survivability is in the Mutation Stacks. Octavia is pretty much good everywhere.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb Shaw1996:

Since she's a Berserker, I doubt there's going to be survivability changes. 

Only in warframe will you find a berserker theme that ignores damage, gains nothing but makes you vulnerable.

The berserker theme is usually somewhat of an balancing act, one that provides the means to leech of your enemys life force to survive but that also gives you something in return for beeing as close to death as possible.

The hysteria we currently have is an literall joke when it comes to that. There should be changes, not despise the fact that she is a berserker but because of it.

Edited March 25, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[taiiat]

8 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

If Only Paralysis(Prolonged Paralysis) would pull flying drones down 🤣

i know right? damn Drones staring at us and laughing that they're immune to it. joke's on them though, other than hockey puck or Energy Drain Drones i don't care what they do! :D

7 hours ago, Andaius said:

Well technically, her paraysis scales in powewr with the amount of shields you explode. So it could be that your shields aren't full when you hit some enemies and they don't stagger.

as aforementioned, Paralysis always Staggers or drags through the air and Shield value only determines how much if any Damage they take(though even at like 1 Shields i think Enemies still take 1 Damage? too insignificant for me to have ever tested it)
but, it's not a high priority CC, so other Abilities or any actions the Enemy is performing overrides it actually activating. which basically means anytime you would cast it, you cast it 3 or 4 times to make sure it actually works on the Enemy.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Point remains tho that you need that stuff. Desperately. What's somewhat of a joke for a frame that's meant to be tanky.

you don't really need additional Health sources technically, they just let you be lazy and never have to actually cast Hysteria. which makes sense, i don't really like Hysteria either - because it's boring and the Cast Times are kinda poo, not because it isn't extremely effective. so i use Hysteria just as a method of Healing generally, and go back to Prolonged Paralysis.
so i opt to save Mod Slots and use Hysteria to Heal, some others prefer to not need to cast Hysteria at all, and Heal some other way.

either way, Valkyr is still plenty durable from the Armor Value and having a built in way to Heal should you choose to use it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited March 25, 2018 by taiiat

[Shaw1996]

8 minutes ago, taiiat said:

 Cast Times are kinda poo

Hysteria's cast time did get me killed before. That's the biggest i have with Hysteria. when it comes to Armor, Valkyr Prime got 700 base armor. Twice as much as Chroma.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Shaw1996

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

It still kind of bewilders me that Valkyr is a Berserker frame, but Hysteria isn’t technically something that is remotely close to what a Berserker does. Invulnerability isn’t a trait I see from Berserkers, but attacking with reckless abandon is.

Honestly, if Berserker was changed to a channeling toggle ability that had constant health drain, damage reduction, and life steal on melee attacks, I would consider her a Berserker. Maybe make her Hysteria melee combos more pronounced by giving them a double attack feature per melee swing to make her more devastating within her CQC. Invulnerability with an energy drain ramp-up and a self-damage mechanic when still in the vicinity of enemies when toggled off just feels sort of backwards to me.

Even then, if I’m using Valkyr/Prime I’m more of an Eternal War or Prolonged Paralysis player than someone that relies on Hysteria. She’s more interesting when utilizing those builds than she is in her current state of Hysteria.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb taiiat:

 

you don't really need additional Health sources technically, they just let you be lazy and never have to actually cast Hysteria. which makes sense, i don't really like Hysteria either - because it's boring and the Cast Times are kinda poo, not because it isn't extremely effective. so i use Hysteria just as a method of Healing generally, and go back to Prolonged Paralysis.
so i opt to save Mod Slots and use Hysteria to Heal, some others prefer to not need to cast Hysteria at all, and Heal some other way.

either way, Valkyr is still plenty durable from the Armor Value and having a built in way to Heal should you choose to use it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Technically, you don't need seperate mods but it's definitly not integrated into her playstyle. It is bound to a seperate mode that doesn't allow you to get damaged and ends in recieving the accumulated damage during this period if you do not kill each and every enemy in a big radius or basicly flee from battle, both beein impossible criterias depending on the content, in which case you gain absolutely nothing but a small breather depending on the level range you're dealing with.

You know i absolutely hate this term since it allows soo much personal taste to flow in but hysteria, that ability is bad design. Not because i wouldn't like it, i've basicly mained hysteria in my first year or so and loved every second of it, no. Because the invulnerability concept is objectively in conflict with everything she is outside of hysteria and the healing aspect can only be used once per activation. It doesn't store the health to help you go around, it doesn't even counter the ignored damage (what would be an excellent way to amplify hysteria...infinite negative health that can be managed with life steal and would potentially allow energy management would definitly be a good alternative to invulnerability), it is literally loosing its function the moment you max your health once.

Stuff like inaros health management, that is good design since it's fast, deals Cc and keeps your hands free. Saryns augument is good design too. It distracts enemys while you get the opportunity to heal up. Oberons renewal is excellent design as it's cheap as hell permanent healing till you or anyone actually needs it and bound to the only numeric armor support in the game. So is trinitys bless that adds a strong damage reduction.... Or nekros loot that does more then just healing. Hysteria is none of that. It is a channeled stance that is expensive on activation and gets more expensive per second used, only so you can do what exactly? Compensate for a healing plate? Migrate like one weapon or mod slot?..

Edited March 26, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[taiiat]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It doesn't store the health to help you go around, it doesn't even counter the ignored damage

Stuff like inaros health management, that is good design
Saryns augument is good design too. It distracts enemys while you get the opportunity to heal up.
Oberons renewal is excellent design as it's cheap as hell permanent healing till you or anyone actually need it
so is trinitys bless that adds a strong damage reduction.

i'd 'buy that for a dollar', sure. dealing Damage to Enemies being able to reduce the bubble Damage. (even though taking a significant amount of Damage from it is still something you have to almost do on purpose but i digress)

i think the only thing that doesn't really flow that great is that Hysteria has a long Cast Time. aside from that, it flows pretty well. built in Regen when your Health is low, and if you don't try to rely on Hysteria as some sort of turtle mode, then you're swapping in and out at various points in Combat. pretty archetypal of a stereotypical 'Berserker'.
i've noted many a moon that Hysteria would be more interesting as a minimum 1 Health Mode rather than invulnerability - which certainly would encourage you to stay in the middle of Combat so that you can keep yourself Healed for when you turn the Ability off. it does still works for the theme as is, though.

 

• Inaros does flow well, albeit being being comically convenient to use. most of the time you have no worries about the Damage you're taking no matter what the Enemies are which kinda indicates the minimum effort interaction is probably too effective and could use some deeper mechanics that are more effective with the minimum effort ones being less effective than they are now.
• Regenerative Molt is..... well it would be acceptable design if Saryn didn't get nerfed because of its existence, instilling that the intention is that it is a mandatory Mod, except if it's ergo supposed to be an intended part of the Ability why is it a Mod at all.
• Renewal works nicely aside from that Rage is a 'too good to be true' situation for Renewal. (i'm also quite certain that Rage didn't work on Energy Drain Abilities, however i can't find the point in time where that would have been the case, whether it was a Bug or something else)
• Blessing used to have good design mechanics save for self Damage - now it has no mechanics at all, just cast it constantly. no reason not to just cast it over and over. that isn't good design. it's like activating Focus Passives - everybody did it, and there wasn't any reason not to do it. when you spawn as a Trinity, there's no reason why you wouldn't instantly Cast Blessing.
  almost all of the adjustments to Blessing it has ever received, just ended up serving as 'what can we do to this that does not affect Raids'. instead of..... 'how do we make this a good / active Ability that isn't mindless to use'. i guess since Raids can't block development of Warframes by Digital Extremes being afraid of anything affecting Raids while wanting to change things... maybe that can get better now? (and maybe that would be the one singular upside to not having Raids anymore, among an ocean of downsides)

Edited March 26, 2018 by taiiat

[Foxbat40]

On 3/22/2018 at 12:29 AM, (PS4)H3art_Th13f said:

it's painful playing valkyr when her hysteria is just smacked into the ground with nerfs thanks to noobs crying about their precious rhino being outpaced by a girl. Like iron clad charge has no ceiling so you can get to 75k and it's fast mobile and is op and is his main ability. but valkyr has to be 20+m away when she takes damage which is ironic for a melee frame and the damage you take can very well kill you at high levels where rhino can do 300+ no problem.

 

come on DE I want to use a frame that isn't just for noobs when I want to tank.

You don't have to stay 20m away from mobs all the time. Just when hysteria runs out. (or just break LOS) You can run negative range maximize efficiency and duration and you can stay in hysteria for 5 minutes. Add range and berzerker to your melee weapon. You can bust nully bubbles and keep right on going.

 

I don't even know what you are complaining about I have only died from hysteria 2 times in the past 6 months. It is a great skill and a great frame.

[(PSN)DimitriTheGamer3]

valkyr prime > everyone else

[Andaius]

I haven't tried her out recently, but I could have sworn that if yo uhave low shields it wasn't enough to stagger the heavy units when you used paralysis on them. I recall because I couldn't always open up bombards to finishers unless I had full or nearly full shields. That could just come down to not remembering right however.

[Shaw1996]

7 hours ago, (PS4)DimitriTheGamer3 said:

valkyr prime > everyone else

^^^^

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

On 3/22/2018 at 12:58 AM, spiralmenace said:

if anything the problem with valkyr is that hysteria isn't "cannot fall below 1 hp while this skill is active"

I actually think that could be interesting. 

Change it to "can't fall below 1hp" instead. Remove the circle. Keep the life steal, and make the life steal amount increase over time as the cost increases over time. 

She won't be able to keep it on forever and requires active combat to keep her health up before it deactivates. That way they can get rid of the circle that seems to confuse people and she still has a risk of death if not used appropriately. 

[Shaw1996]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I actually think that could be interesting. 

Change it to "can't fall below 1hp" instead. Remove the circle. Keep the life steal, and make the life steal amount increase over time as the cost increases over time. 

She won't be able to keep it on forever and requires active combat to keep her health up before it deactivates. That way they can get rid of the circle that seems to confuse people and she still has a risk of death if not used appropriately. 

How you won’t keep it going for ever if she can heal back to full health from literally one enemy?

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

4 minutes ago, Shaw1996 said:

How you won’t keep it going for ever if she can heal back to full health from literally one enemy?

"Cost increases over time". 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Shaw1996:

How you won’t keep it going for ever if she can heal back to full health from literally one enemy?

Keep the cost increase as is, make 1 health the treshold you can fall to and anything below the accumulating damage. Make hysterias life steal reduce the accumulated damage on overheal.

No circle, uncompensated damage no matter what.

A damage buff the higher the counter gets wouldn't hurt eather. Cause berserker and all.

Who tf cares about keeping it on forever? It's fatal once you run out of energy.

[Shaw1996]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Keep the cost increase as is, make 1 health the treshold you can fall to and anything below the accumulating damage. Make hysterias life steal reduce the accumulated damage on overheal.

No circle, uncompensated damage no matter what.

A damage buff the higher the counter gets wouldn't hurt eather. Cause berserker and all.

Who tf cares about keeping it on forever? It's fatal once you run out of energy.

This, i would be fine with.

[Chipputer]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I actually think that could be interesting. 

Change it to "can't fall below 1hp" instead. Remove the circle. Keep the life steal, and make the life steal amount increase over time as the cost increases over time. 

She won't be able to keep it on forever and requires active combat to keep her health up before it deactivates. That way they can get rid of the circle that seems to confuse people and she still has a risk of death if not used appropriately. 

That's specifically why they added the circle and cause you to take damage if enemies are around when you deactivate it. You're basically advocating for the same end result except yours would kill Valkyr after the ability ends and she gets shot one more time where DE's solution kills her as she deactivates it.

One is more fitting to the berserker theme (yours) but both accomplish the same concept.

[EinheriarJudith]

imo a berserker is someone who fights aggressively while ignoring pain (ignoring pain does not mean invincibility). what this means to me is they become more dangerous/aggressive as they near death. i don't know why hysteria has LS or even invincibility.