Someone needs to give this guy EXACTLY what he wants

[BornWithTeeth]

14 minutes ago, seprent said:

mostly saying this for a joke but i got a zhuge riven that is trying to remember off the top of my head +58% max ammo +55% ammo in clip +101% multishot and -142% damage if you can give a guide to make that work besides as pseudo crusaders crossbow for my allies/enemies getting rad proced id be welcome to hear it 

Ok, well, seeing as I have some kind of stupid luck with Rivens (apparently!), do you want to give it to me for a few days, let me roll it a couple times and give it back to you with a suggested build?

[seprent]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Ok, well, seeing as I have some kind of stupid luck with Rivens (apparently!), do you want to give it to me for a few days, let me roll it a couple times and give it back to you with a suggested build?

nah im fine like i said it was mostly a joke for a laugh (i keep it like that for the laugh) sometimes you gotta break things up with a joke it was my first riven so i keep it for a giggle and haven't rolled it ever since i find it funny thanks for offering though

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I know what slippery slope is.  There is an implied disastrous (and absurd) conclusion that is pervasive in this thread:

When you marry consequence of mechanic (we can go with your wording) to gambling addiction and then you reinforce with the implication that DE has included the irresistible (to addicts) “PERFECT ROLL” (your words to bolster an argument using subjective absolutes).

The slippery slope argument was implied (and not by me).

I think you were confusing my equally absurd solution should I actually agree with an absurd premise presented as fact.

Remove ALL temptation involving RnG if the game (and Rivens) is on it’s way to turning us all into Addicts and destroying our quality of life (Gaming or otherwise).

Counterpoint:  “Yeah, I can get a great Riven in about a dozen rolls.”

“Agency”?  Again, responsibility and ownership of choice is the part of the  equation no one wants to acknowledge.

You are eloquent, but tipped your hand with the “God Roll” and “push the Meta” comment.

Rivens are not a necessity to complete Warframe’s content, so if the numbers dictate, through your perception, that they are, that’s a choice you made.  I get it.  That’s Warframe for you.  Acknowledged.

Using imperfect references to rigid constructs, though?

fallacies of division

fallacies of equivalence

strawman argument...

They are ways of compartmentalizing and limiting listening at the expense of discussion.

The theme that arose was basically saying people can't help themselves when it comes to Rivens; a carrot on a stick so delicious and rare that it is destroying the experience because they have to forever give chase at the expense of all else.

“Help us DE because we can’t help ourselves! If you don’t, it’s your fault.”

Thanks.  

 

Again...nothing of what you said even touched on the definition of a slippery slope argument. But good try. 

I at least had a good chuckle reading this...what you probably thought was a coherent argument...but instead turned out to be merely a barely intelligible collection of disjointed sentences failing to comprehend what was actually said and missing the point entirely. In short...you make no sense what so ever but make it absolutely 100% clear that you seem to be very much unable to process criticism on DE's systems in a rational way ad seem to be under the illusion that just because you do not have to use a system or mechanic this excuses its bad and flawed design. 

And in fact that is what your word soup there argues exactly: the system is not flawed...it is the players with poor self control. 

So let me run this by you again: just because somebody does not have to use the system or that self control helps in alleviating the excesses of a system do not mean that the system is not inherently flawed and designed in such away as to reward the excesses. 

Your central argument relies entirely on the fact that Warframe is in its current state seriously hampered by missing a meaningful end game that create a disparity between player power and the required power of the game itself. In short...your argument hinges entirely on the existence of other flawed systems.  So just because Rivens are not needed for the challenges currently in the game does not mean the system is not flawed. In fact...I would argue that that just underlines the point all the more. 

This of course also conveniently overlooks the fact of the in game player plat economy is very much a thing and core concept within the game....and very much a  system in which the best rolls are highly rewarded. Disproving your point entirely.  

So maybe you should substitute your rash dismissal of criticism by immediately seeking nonsensical and ridiculous excuses for flawed mechanics and designs for listening and actual arguments yourself. That would be helpful.  

 

[Shiichibukai]

Rivens were a mistake, a costly and an even heavier rng mistake.

[Arniox]

13 hours ago, TheDefenestrater said:

I saw this on reddit today.  

 

The fact that this riven's been rolled over 256 times and it's still garbage just proves how terrible the riven system is.  Someone needs to give this guy a scoliac riven with whatever stats he freakin wants on it, because he deserves it after farming that much freakin kuva.  You've created a slot machine, and someone's pulled the lever well over 200 times.

It's funny cause 255 is the largest 8 bit number if I remember correctly. So rolling to 256 in an 8 bit system literally causes a roll over and would result in the very first roll... 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Arniox said:

It's funny cause 255 is the largest 8 bit number if I remember correctly. So rolling to 256 in an 8 bit system literally causes a roll over and would result in the very first roll... 

Well, his original post was demonstrating the roll over bug where the riven doesn't show the actual roll count when linked in chat.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Again...nothing of what you said even touched on the definition of a slippery slope argument. But good try. 

I at least had a good chuckle reading this...what you probably thought was a coherent argument...but instead turned out to be merely a barely intelligible collection of disjointed sentences failing to comprehend what was actually said and missing the point entirely. In short...you make no sense what so ever but make it absolutely 100% clear that you seem to be very much unable to process criticism on DE's systems in a rational way ad seem to be under the illusion that just because you do not have to use a system or mechanic this excuses its bad and flawed design. 

And in fact that is what your word soup there argues exactly: the system is not flawed...it is the players with poor self control. 

So let me run this by you again: just because somebody does not have to use the system or that self control helps in alleviating the excesses of a system do not mean that the system is not inherently flawed and designed in such away as to reward the excesses. 

Your central argument relies entirely on the fact that Warframe is in its current state seriously hampered by missing a meaningful end game that create a disparity between player power and the required power of the game itself. In short...your argument hinges entirely on the existence of other flawed systems.  So just because Rivens are not needed for the challenges currently in the game does not mean the system is not flawed. In fact...I would argue that that just underlines the point all the more. 

This of course also conveniently overlooks the fact of the in game player plat economy is very much a thing and core concept within the game....and very much a  system in which the best rolls are highly rewarded. Disproving your point entirely.  

So maybe you should substitute your rash dismissal of criticism by immediately seeking nonsensical and ridiculous excuses for flawed mechanics and designs for listening and actual arguments yourself. That would be helpful.  

 

You have completely blurred the lines between constructive criticism and the pervasive theme in this thread that I was addressing. 

Present your constructive criticisms as I stated earlier in the thread.  But to do so requires a consensus when defining terms for success and failure.

Subjective terms like “perfect/God roll”, “meaningful endgame”, “Meta”, etc.  are useless without agreed-upon definitions.

Everyone has a valuable voice.

And everyone’s definition for these terms is different.  It even goes so far as players saying Warframe “lacks” endgame, but they can’t tell DE what endgame is for them.

Therein lies the challenge for DE.  They’ve built this game which has evolved in a messy, truly beautiful way (like life) so that it offers so many things for so many different types of players.

To be clear, I’ve appreciated our discussion and hope that you make a contribution that somehow improves Warframe for both you and our community.

Edited April 4, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Rivens aren't a necessity so he wasn't forced to roll it that much he chose to himself in all likelihood being too picky about how he wants his powercreep.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

IMO rivens were a genious move from DE. From a business stand point. 

You know what is left to do for players after a certain point? fashion frame or min max. 

Releasing new cosmetics and having rivens to boost min max, keep a portion of the players on the game.

And just to add to that, everytime a new weapon is released, guess what? Riven market goes crazy...

That is why keeping things random is a good thing, at least from the business stand point.

[DatDarkOne]

A fool and his kuva are soon parted.  

[Indecisive1]

This is my riven and I can safely say it was annoying to roll it, but honestly, after 100 rolls I knew it wasn't worth but kept going for the sake of it. If I didn't have this I would probably have been a lot more annoyed than I am. With the riven system being random means that the more you roll doesn't necessarily mean the better you will get, which honestly is an aspect I am mostly okay with.

[Mintaro]

You need reroll 1 million times in order to reach true ascension.

[ConzyFTW]

To be honest, rivens are the only thing keeping me in the game currently, discovering new weapons and getting rivens for them, which make them either super fun, super powerful, or both. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by ConzyFTW

[(PSN)TheDrift-]

On 03/04/2018 at 12:50 PM, TheDefenestrater said:

I saw this on reddit today.  

 

The fact that this riven's been rolled over 256 times and it's still garbage just proves how terrible the riven system is.  Someone needs to give this guy a scoliac riven with whatever stats he freakin wants on it, because he deserves it after farming that much freakin kuva.  You've created a slot machine, and someone's pulled the lever well over 200 times.

I know a few people has said this is a garbage roll...and I have no idea what he passed up to get here...but 206.2% range is pretty darn high..i think it's in the top 3% for that stat

[(PSN)PandaPapa146]

On 03/04/2018 at 7:50 PM, TheDefenestrater said:

I saw this on reddit today.  

 

The fact that this riven's been rolled over 256 times and it's still garbage just proves how terrible the riven system is.  Someone needs to give this guy a scoliac riven with whatever stats he freakin wants on it, because he deserves it after farming that much freakin kuva.  You've created a slot machine, and someone's pulled the lever well over 200 times.

Dat's Really No Good.

I got one of these (yeh!, at last!)...but, it'll get a few re-rolls only, then, when the first 'liveable' or half-decent set of stats appear, job done! 

Here's mine: Scoliac Uti-ignicon: +12.5% Channeling Efficiency / +5.6% Dmg to Grineer / +11.9% Heat / -4.5% Dmg to Infested

Cheers!

UPDATE*: Well, I rolled my Scoliac riven (as above) and this is what I got after 1x roll: 

Scoliac Toxi-cronitio: +86% Toxin / +80% Electricity / +51.5% Attack Speed (of course, these are the maxed values)

I was satisfied with that, and that's as I use it. Job done!

Cheers!

Edited April 11, 2018 by (PS4)PandaPapa146
*Update

[WhiteCr0w]

On 4/3/2018 at 8:33 AM, TheDefenestrater said:

You do realize that the mechanic is innately predatory and triggers fairly primitive parts of your brain, right?  There are tons of people out there who cannot control themselves when it comes to these kinds of activities.

Then we know what must be done.

We must remove his brain.

[Gharsan]

You can still enjoy the game without your "perfect" riven, whatever that is. If there are in-game contents that pretty much forces you to have these "Godly" rivens in the future, then we can start to burn the village and lash out with our pitchforks.

Riven is doing what it's meant to do; It is a completely optional luxury toy for bored endgamers and statistics enthusiasts that adds flavor to both meta and non-meta weapons. It's nothing more, nothing less. What it is not meant to do is to ensure everyone to have +300 damage, +300 critical chance, +300 multishot mod for your Tigris Prime if you put enough time and effort on it. Is it a fair system? No, but if it was, it wouldn't serve its purpose to begin with. It would rather just be another "must-farm meta" mod. I do feel sorry for the guy, but I really don't think you should blame the game.

Sure, I can see the frustration dealing with all-out RNG, and I do sympathize with opinions that the system can be turned into something less painful. However, it's also not a game-breaking threat that needs to be fixed ASAP prior to other problems this game must deal with.

[(XBOX)Timidobserver]

It's an endgame progression system that tries to ensure that even the most hardcore player has something productive to do once they run out of content.

It's why Warframe has sustained success while games like Destiny 2, Battlefront 2, and Sea of thieves do not. Those games leave you with nothing worth doing after a few weeks of intense play.