Remove Sortie Spy Missions

[GuezMan]

go solo...

[--DSP--Jetstream]

I just ready my liset air support charges in case someone triggered alarm.

most of my sortie spy with randoms usually work fine. Its the risk playing with randoms, sometime you got a team full of people that race to the vault and crack it before you,

and sometime a team that triggered all the vaults alarm at the same time and panicking.

Its like the nature of this game, rng even with people.

[----Fenrir----]

I do not like spy missions in sorties mostly because those are essentially solo missions and each time one comes next you have to be anti-social and leave your team because playing them with a random team is really not an option for those of us that want to keep their sanity. You usually get people that went to the "Rambo-school-of-infiltration" and consequently think that Rhino is the best frame for spy missions and being as loud as possible and triggering as many alarms as possible is the way to go...

Edited April 8, 2018 by ----Fenrir----

[Mattoropael]

The fact that everyone and their dogs are yelling "GO SOLO" at the top of their lungs only confirms Sortie Spy being very bad.

Same with Interception on the opposite side, which is borderline impossible on solo.

[(PSN)Deadwood_Lane]

They are pretty toxic though, I 've seen plenty of players being called noobs in these sortie spy missions.

[Ricknir]

Though my answer as with everyone is just "go solo" I can see your point in the argument of removing them in pug's situations. 

But then again you could really apply it to any kind of mission when the group communication breaks down.

Is spy missions a problem when everyone is talking to each other? I doubt it very much. Some people will be better at doing certian things. 

Can't really blame DE for a groups inability to communicate  

The only sortie spy mission I stay away from is when the energy reduction is on. The rest I can do with Ivara without killing a single thing and it's very cheesy. 

Eximus stronghold is a pain with the energy leeches. 

[IceColdHawk]

Sortie Spies are among a very few missions out there, that CAN actually be failed. So either play carefully or deal with the consequences. While "Play solo" seems to rustle a few jimmies out there, it's just natural for COOP games to COOPERATE together. If this isn't possible, you either play with friends to make sure you know who is with you or you attempt it solo. In coop games it's not just "I did my thing, where is my reward?", it's "We did it! Here we go!".

You don't see players complaining and demanding to remove Payday stealth missions because randoms can fail the whole mission for you. You cooperate and accept that people can fail or you go solo if you can't accept others failing the mission for you. But asking for sortie spies to be removed is just petty. If you feel like failing sorties and getting endo all the time frustrates you, then advocate for a better loot system which wouldn't hurt the game for once to have a proper reward feeling once in a lifetime.

8 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I personally don't like Defection missions.  That doesn't mean that I want to deny that mission type from sorties for those that do.  I'm just not that selfish.  

Kinda offtopic here but i had to mention it. I get your sense of thinking and i usually agree but...if you were to remove defection, you wouldn't get called out as selfish. You would get celebrated as our new hero.

Spoiler

 

[DatDarkOne]

59 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Kinda offtopic here but i had to mention it. I get your sense of thinking and i usually agree but...if you were to remove defection, you wouldn't get called out as selfish. You would get celebrated as our new hero.

Hehe.  You know i used that as an extreme example.  I haven't meet many that like that mission type. 

[.Yes]

On 07/04/2018 at 1:48 AM, Broshambo said:

"Everyone deserves the chance to succeed in a group" Really? Then why are there special needs classes? Cause no one wants to hear Sam stumble through the paragraph he has to read out loud for 30 minutes. 

Every time I do a Sortie Spy mission I feel like its just punishing skilled players. Why did I do my part and learn the missions when someone can so easily come in a wreck it for everyone else? In no other mission is there a higher chance of failure or reliance on teammates. Players are forced to repeat public missions over and over again until they rage quit and are forced to do solo. 

Defense Sorties were changed to 5 rounds from 10. That is because we realized 10 rounds is quite a long mission. 

Now lets take another step in the right direction and remove the pain of Sortie Spy missions. Pretty please. 

how about no?

Are you literally suggesting they remove a game mode because you can't be bother to either A) get a preset group B) do this solo or C) have enough patience to know that S#&$ happens?

 

...Really?

[Insizer]

tbh most sortie spy missions i do public involve me doing 2/3 of the objective and someone else who is confident in their capability doing the last one.  The rest just run around killing S#&$ and not stepping close to the vaults.  They know they are there to leech and know that it is in their interest to let Ivara and such take care of the vaults rather than try to run them as Ember.

[Broshambo]

15 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Now this is an interesting statement you've made here.  I say this because solo players could say the same thing about some other mission types in the game.  Should we be forced to group?

Think about that for a moment.  I mean really think about it.  Everything you said that I quoted above can just as easily be applied from the opposite perspective also.  

The difference between your topic and me is that I'm not saying to have something removed.  I personally don't like Defection missions.  That doesn't mean that I want to deny that mission type from sorties for those that do.  I'm just not that selfish.  

Nah good point. I used to hate being forced to get a group together in WoW before the group finder thing was added. I will stick to my opinion on this topic though. Most of us are not going to change our opinion.

If you think that I think DE is going to remove them just cause I posted some BS in the forums, you're oddly mistaken.

I'm just glad there are eyes on the issue, and apparently there are a lot of them. 

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Sortie Defection - Group Recommended/Required
Sortie Interception - Group Recommended/Required
Sortie Survival - Group Recommend/Required
Sortie Defense - Group Recommended/Required
Sortie Hive - Solo Viable, Group Recommended
Sortie Excavation - Group Recommended/Required
Sortie Mobile Defense - Solo Viable, Group Recommended
Sortie Assassination - Group Recommended/Required
Sortie Extermination - Solo Viable, Quicker with Group
Sortie Sabotage - Solo Viable, Quicker with Group
Sortie Spy - Solo Recommended

So...most of the mission types are honestly better in a Group.
Only a very select few are welcoming to Solo play.
Sometimes the others are but only if they are the First or Second mission & the modifiers may change even that.

Spy Missions are fine.
If you want to run them in groups then use Recruiting, Clan, or Friendlist.
Just like all the drama over Kuva Survival, Defense Waves, & etc.
Multiplayer games are meant to be played with others but YOU (the player) need to find/recruit/meet like minded players then play with them.
You cannot & should not force//try to force your individual playstyle on others.

[LuckyCharm]

Spy is actually my fav sortie. And if people screw up generally they're nice about it. 

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Sortie Defection - BS mission of epic proportions 
Sortie Interception - Soloable
Sortie Survival - Soloable easily
Sortie Defense - Soloable/Group Recommended
Sortie Hive - Solo easily
Sortie Excavation - Soloable
Sortie Mobile Defense - Solo Viable, Group Recommended
Sortie Assassination - Soloable easily

Sortie Extermination - Soloable easily
Sortie Sabotage - Soloable easliy
Sortie Spy - Solo Recommended

Just thought I'd correct that for you Tenno. 

There is really only one mission that is hard to do solo, and that is defection.  Everything else in the game can be done solo quite easily depending on the frame   

Saying that the missions are better in a group is an opinion (of yours) and not a fact.  This is something that subjective for each player.  

Edited April 9, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[(PSN)xNaNo_Lynx]

On 4/6/2018 at 2:22 PM, (PS4)Vagnar said:

Honestly, I'd love for them to be removed. Why? They're not challenging or interesting in any way shape or form. There's very little high level content to enjoy and it always bums me out when Spy is one of the sorties just because it's an in and out zzz fest. I like punching stuff in the face.

Exactly...maybe they could add puzzles and stuff to the Spy sorties to actually make them you know... C H A L L E N G I N G !!! Maybe make the hack thingy that you hack bigger and/or more complex. Also maybe you have to kill the gatekeeper or something to get a key??? Idk I'm just giving you'll food for thought...hopefully DE will listen. Other than that have a nice day/night everybody :D

[(PSN)Flatulent_Draco]

Umm... just solo the spy mission? Honestly no spy mission in the game is tough and if you don't wanna fail due to other player's errors then just go by yourself, problem solved. That's my sarcastic response, otherwise removing spies from sortie playlist? Dunno man you'd think people would know the basics to avoid cameras, line of sight, obvious wall/laser traps... pitiful guards. Spies in this game are hilariously easy even as a non stealth frame. For example I use Inaros on energy reduction because I can easily tank the damage and what damage is done I can easily return with sand to blind and heal if need be while still hacking each objective without an alarm going off.

Honestly I'd rather spies stay in the playlist but be made an actual challenge. DE should take a few notes from Ubisoft's old Spliter Cell games and the rebooted Thief game. Those had some good challenges that'd make spies better.

Also why should a game mode be removed it it's inconveniencing for you? That's how it seems like for you. That's no reason to remove it for everyone else that can and or likes to do spy missions in the sortie list. You might as well remove exterminate because people don't kill fast enough, remove defense because it's still too long, remove mobile defense because you don't feel like moving, remove survival because you don't like air, remove rescue because you want the rescue target to get him/herself out for you.

Edited April 9, 2018 by (PS4)Benjamin_Draco

[(PSN)xNaNo_Lynx]

11 hours ago, Insizer said:

tbh most sortie spy missions i do public involve me doing 2/3 of the objective and someone else who is confident in their capability doing the last one.  The rest just run around killing S#&$ and not stepping close to the vaults.  They know they are there to leech and know that it is in their interest to let Ivara and such take care of the vaults rather than try to run them as Ember.

Bro I did the whole StarChart as a Rhinosaurus Rex and ACED all of the spy missions...with a couple casualties (im not a god...not even close). Not gonna lie tho the invis is really nice for spy missions...

[(PSN)Zero_029]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Just thought I'd correct that for you Tenno. 

There is really only one mission that is hard to do solo, and that is defection.  Everything else in the game can be done solo quite easily depending on the frame   

Saying that the missions are better in a group is an opinion (of yours) and not a fact.  This is something that subjective for each player.  

I was trying to avoid getting too in depth.

So yes. Every mission can be solo'd/cheesed with the correct frame, loadout, knowledge.

But in general (everyday players) most of those missions are too tough to do alone depending on:

A. Enemy Faction

B. Level Range

C. Modifiers

When Mission 2 or 3 is Grineer/Void Eximus Stronghold Mobile Defense/Defense. It simply is not doable for many average players.

Hell I play exclusively solo & I even I ponder doing a public under those conditions.

My point was to point out the vroad majority of mission types are leaned heavily towards Group play.

Even if they indeed soloable, they are not leaned towards solo play.

[Insizer]

On 4/8/2018 at 11:46 PM, (PS4)xNaNo_Lynx said:

Bro I did the whole StarChart as a Rhinosaurus Rex and ACED all of the spy missions...with a couple casualties (im not a god...not even close). Not gonna lie tho the invis is really nice for spy missions...

I never said it was impossible to run them as whatever, but rather in sortie spy missions the people who aren't versed in spy missions do their own thing and let the "professionals" take care of the objective.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Here's looking at from another angle...Sortie Spy Missions are Shakespearian dramas that provide so much entertainment that only one other Mission surpasses it...Lua Rescues. If you're going in to win..it's gonna be horrible...if you're going in to see the complete breakdown of humanity come over the mics...it's entertainment gold. And you don't even have to troll..you just let it take its course and wow...just wow...I never miss a Sortie Spy..it kills my missions success stat...but it's soooo worth it. 

[UltraLYT]

What are you talking about?  Sortie Spy can be one of the most relaxing, easiest and fastest (~5 min) missions, go solo.

[UltraLYT]

On 4/8/2018 at 11:27 PM, DatDarkOne said:

Just thought I'd correct that for you Tenno. 

There is really only one mission that is hard to do solo, and that is defection.  Everything else in the game can be done solo quite easily depending on the frame   

Saying that the missions are better in a group is an opinion (of yours) and not a fact.  This is something that subjective for each player.  

Agreed. 

But defection is also not hard to do in solo if you use the right frame, solo just takes longer, not harder.

The particular 'hard' sortie mission if you solo is likely Lua Rescue, simply because there are too many hacks and the time constraint if you are only by yourself. 

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, modalmojo said:

The particular 'hard' sortie mission if you solo is likely Lua Rescue, simply because there are too many hacks and the time constraint if you are only by yourself.

Yeah, that one is pretty annoying too.   

[Hyohakusha]

One person = only one set of possible mistakes, made by you, the player
Two people = two sets of possible mistakes, but it goes much faster
Three = three sets of possible mistakes, but if everyone knows what they're doing its over instantly
Four = too many possible mistakes made too far away from each other to help in time

Basically, the same as any other stealth based game archetype. There's nothing wrong with this, it provides a nice break from standard gameplay. I agree that telling people to play solo is never an answer in 99% of the situations that it comes up in, but when you're trying to be sneaky in any game, it's pretty obvious why more people making more noise and creating more chances to be found isn't ideal.

The reason people don't like them is because no one bothers to learn them, and then they bum rush it when they know they don't know what they're doing, and they don't have the courtesy of telling the rest of the team. In the one in a million run where someone does actually say "Hey, I don't know how to do this one" I get a big ol' murder grin, kill everything in the room after doing it, and then show them how. Unfortunately, that almost never happens, so I don't see why a mode should be removed due to players not bothering to learn in the first place, especially when they only continue to make their and everyone else's pub spy runs miserable.

[DatDarkOne]

@Hyohakusha  I love your post.  You hit the nail on the head with each of your points.