The DExtreme™ Rework

[Hellfire_Maximus]

a smart game design never scales down its enemies and bosses...the smart way of keeping the new players and experienced players in their comfort zone without nerfing the enemies and bosses is to scale the players according to the area.Ever heard of Dynamic level adjustment? this system adjusts a player's attributes and level based on the area they are in.your idea of so called balancing is simply a bad nightmare.

[PrivateRiem]

8 hours ago, Naqel said:

1. Easy to cheese.

2. Does not resolve the infinite armor scaling issue.

How is it easy to cheese if the only way for the difficulty to go is up? Scale the difficulty and enemy spawns until kill time drops significantly drops and damage taken greatly increases.

It's just a way to not have to wait 60 minutes to reach difficulty capable of handling the modding capabilities of your squad, and keep it close to that threshold for longer for that "uphill battle" feeling

[Naqel]

4 hours ago, Oblitum said:

The lore talks about the tenno killing an entire civilization on a drum beat

ALL of the Tenno. ALL of them. Not a singular, not even a cell of 4, thousands of war veterans. Similar reservations apply to Gara, Titania, and all the other legends of old.

The ones we get to play as are are children, and while we may have for gameplay purposes enough firepower to decimate a platoon of grineer in ~15 minutes (and exterminate the approximate population of the known universe on a monthly basis), there is still plenty enough wiggle room to reduce the overkill by quite a lot.

The idea isn't to take away the power fantasy, but to clean up the gameplay that enables it. We do not need to jump from 100dps to 100000dps, it'd be enough if it was 1000dps in the endgame. Much healthier for proper balancing.

 

2 hours ago, PrivateRiem said:

How is it easy to cheese if the only way for the difficulty to go is up?

The way you phrased implied it could go down if the group is doing poorly.
Even without that, people would quickly adopt a strategy of killing the bare minimum of enemies and taking the highest safe amount of damage to delay the progression as they reap the rewards.

It'd be a gimmick that hinders people that play the game properly.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Naqel

[True_Naeblis]

Scaling wouldn't be an issue if we didn't have the hitscan, aimbot magic going on with enemies. Dodging, rolling, and staying active are supposed to decrease enemy accuracy, but unfortunately they don't, and until that's fixed scaling will continue to be an issue. The reworks you're calling for aren't needed, and they won't reshape the game in the right way.

[MickThejaguar]

15 hours ago, Gandergear said:

if you read the post you'd find out that your ember does 800 damage against a max level enemy with 6000 EHP so I don't know where your critical thinking went

Nothing I said implies any lack of critical thinking, nor was any of it incorrect. All I did was point out that this is another "nerf everything" post (and it is) and you automatically assumed I hadn't read the post (i did). I didn't actually give you any information about why I disagreed with nerfing everything in warframe so you have absolutely no level knowledge of what my thoughts are about subject past disagreeing with it. So you have no basis for insulting my critical thinking. Unless you believe the mere thought of someone disagreeing with you shows a lack of critical thinking. In which case you're just a narcissist. 

[Fallen_Echo]

On 2018. 04. 07. at 10:02 AM, xXDeadsinxX said:

If that’s the case, then you haven’t seen me play Dark Souls III with a PS4 controller, it was rough. 

Try it with mouse for extra fun, its nerve breaking.

 

But to be serious theres a video out there where a guy beats dark souls with a guitar hero controller, so we are all noobs.

[Fallen_Echo]

On 2018. 04. 07. at 6:14 AM, Gandergear said:

Step 1: Depower Mods

Step 3: Depower Enemies

Okay my only problem with these is that this can be done the same way as leaving the current numbers as they are and rebalancing enemies to match the damage numbers.

Theres no need for making numbers less if the problem can be fixed with the current numbers.

For example the armor scaling could be fixed if it is stopped at a certain level along with hp scaling. Damage scaling should never reach the one shot category but at worst should deal total ehp dmg of 95%.

To fix the needless cheesing at high levels enemies could get additional modifiers like take 1x less combo multipler damage, continously decreasing max duration on CC skills affecting them and soo on. If we combine this with a maxed possible amount of armor, health, shields and damage than the "endgame" suddenly becomes more challanging without touching the inital numbers.

For example lets say that a butcher at lv1 has the following:

100hp, 10 armor, 10 damage

At lv 100 this guy gets:

1000 hp, 100 armor, 100 damage, +25% movement speed and attack range, 50% less damage taken from skills and melee

At lv 500 this guy has:

1500hp, 500 "armor shield", 250 armor, damage equal to 95% of the targets current hp +5, +50% movement speed and attack range, 90% less damage taken from skills and melee.

The butcher has stopped gaining more bonus exactly at lv 150 and the stats there are identical to the stats at lv500. He can no longer oneshot, has good amount of hp and armor along with a strippable "shield" what does not regenerate and is resistant to melee and skill damages. Got some bonus to make him more threatening but its still just a fodder mob.

 

[Gandergear]

6 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay my only problem with these is that this can be done the same way as leaving the current numbers as they are and rebalancing enemies to match the damage numbers.

Theres no need for making numbers less if the problem can be fixed with the current numbers.

For example the armor scaling could be fixed if it is stopped at a certain level along with hp scaling. Damage scaling should never reach the one shot category but at worst should deal total ehp dmg of 95%.

To fix the needless cheesing at high levels enemies could get additional modifiers like take 1x less combo multipler damage, continously decreasing max duration on CC skills affecting them and soo on. If we combine this with a maxed possible amount of armor, health, shields and damage than the "endgame" suddenly becomes more challanging without touching the inital numbers.

For example lets say that a butcher at lv1 has the following:

100hp, 10 armor, 10 damage

At lv 100 this guy gets:

1000 hp, 100 armor, 100 damage, +25% movement speed and attack range, 50% less damage taken from skills and melee

At lv 500 this guy has:

1500hp, 500 "armor shield", 250 armor, damage equal to 95% of the targets current hp +5, +50% movement speed and attack range, 90% less damage taken from skills and melee.

The butcher has stopped gaining more bonus exactly at lv 150 and the stats there are identical to the stats at lv500. He can no longer oneshot, has good amount of hp and armor along with a strippable "shield" what does not regenerate and is resistant to melee and skill damages. Got some bonus to make him more threatening but its still just a fodder mob.

 

Remember the difference between a modfed and unmodded weapon can be a 53x increase in damage or more in some cases, add abilities and you can do porentially 500x times more damage than a new player starting out. How is DE supposed to balance around that?

As much as id like 50% faster enemies that would look just ridicilous. Part of my argument is that scaling isnt apparent in an easily visible and tightening it would make players feel the enemies actually scale. I dont think giving them resodtance to melee and skills is an effective way of encouraging players to fight harder enemies.

Really the scope needs to be tightened if DE ever wants to make the game look accessible to new players who come in and see gods of death instagibbing everything in a 10 mi radius.

I also seemed to have peeved a lot of people because they thinkn i want to nerf everything, to them i invite them to say why theyre so engaged with 50m skills to kill enemies they cant see, powers strong enough they only kill level 30s and do nothing against level 80s, efficiencies so high they can spam one thing on repeat until the cows come home, and duration (jk duration time doesnt need to be reduced). They also think i said a fat 10x reduction but thats not the case, i clearly said on average a 10x reduction but it has to be a case by case affair with some mods being exempt.

However redicing the effect of flow and efficiency does lead to a problem, so im adding a new part.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Gandergear

[Gandergear]

On 4/7/2018 at 8:30 AM, -Bv-HellfireMaximus said:

a smart game design never scales down its enemies and bosses...the smart way of keeping the new players and experienced players in their comfort zone without nerfing the enemies and bosses is to scale the players according to the area.Ever heard of Dynamic level adjustment? this system adjusts a player's attributes and level based on the area they are in.your idea of so called balancing is simply a bad nightmare.

I briefly discussed it with someone else and dismissed it because dynamic difficulty requires hiding the numbers. Resident Evil 4 and L4D are the major uses of this system. DD cannot be used when the codex tells use a grineer heal is X and his armor is Y and we plug that into his EHP calculator with his level and it spits out his EHP.

[DiabolusUrsus]

The sheer number of blindly reductive "counter" arguments in here is disheartening.

@Gandergear

I neither fully agree nor fully disagree with your proposals:

1. The power gap between a modded and unmodded weapon definitely needs to shrink. You hit the nail on the frickin head in pointing this out as the source of most imbalances. I dunno that we need something as drastic as 1/10 the power, though.
2. Limiting armor scaling... YES. I would like to see armor treated more uniquely than flat damage reduction though: give it durability (a pool) and rating (resistance to damage). Weapons would be given an armor penetration rating (separate from but modified by damage types). If weapon AP exceeds AR, you deal damage to health and armor durability. The difference is used to calculate damage reduction to health. If AP DOESN'T exceed AR, you have to "break" the armor first. Simply put, it's an extra health buffer that can be bypassed SOMEWHAT with the right builds. Shields would be handled as having insanely high AR but much lower durability in exchange for regeneration (Grineer would need field repair units). Tenno armor would be special in that it regenerates like shields.
3. With regards to aggro, I had a similar idea. However, it should not be automatically handled by health. Instead, using bigger louder weapons should draw more aggro (whereas smaller suppresses weapons would draw less). This tasks players with cooperatively managing aggro (instead of "lolthanksRhino") and introduces a great niche for Launcher weapons. It also adds in all sorts of potential for managing aggro through powers, which I think would be a neat alternative to "true" invisibility. Bonus points for adding in a suppression mechanic.

[Dr.Wuzzah]

There are way to many issues to tackle with your version of a rework and others for that matter, because you aren't the first to do this. 

Suggesting a rework as large as this to DE is expecting a bit much. The best you could hope for is that they change the difficulty factor some other way cause this is way too much work for a lot of risk and no gain.

Saying this, would be pretty cool if they changed the enemies to behave how they do on the plains. Add lvl 100 as base to end game, give different unit types different bonuses (i.e. extra damage from kuva grineer).

Problem is you want difficulty in a game that offers rewards for grinding. So there has to be a balance between grind and difficulty. Evidence is the plague star event. I enjoy running all 4 bosses but its more efficient to run no bosses. In pub games i find that half want no difficulty and half want more.

So all in all, if DE continue to balance stuff like they have been doing with the recent content, then there should be a pretty good ratio of farm to difficulty as long as there aren't mahor issues in which the entire community complains.

[Gandergear]

1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

The sheer number of blindly reductive "counter" arguments in here is disheartening.

@Gandergear

I neither fully agree nor fully disagree with your proposals:

1. The power gap between a modded and unmodded weapon definitely needs to shrink. You hit the nail on the frickin head in pointing this out as the source of most imbalances. I dunno that we need something as drastic as 1/10 the power, though.
2. Limiting armor scaling... YES. I would like to see armor treated more uniquely than flat damage reduction though: give it durability (a pool) and rating (resistance to damage). Weapons would be given an armor penetration rating (separate from but modified by damage types). If weapon AP exceeds AR, you deal damage to health and armor durability. The difference is used to calculate damage reduction to health. If AP DOESN'T exceed AR, you have to "break" the armor first. Simply put, it's an extra health buffer that can be bypassed SOMEWHAT with the right builds. Shields would be handled as having insanely high AR but much lower durability in exchange for regeneration (Grineer would need field repair units). Tenno armor would be special in that it regenerates like shields.
3. With regards to aggro, I had a similar idea. However, it should not be automatically handled by health. Instead, using bigger louder weapons should draw more aggro (whereas smaller suppresses weapons would draw less). This tasks players with cooperatively managing aggro (instead of "lolthanksRhino") and introduces a great niche for Launcher weapons. It also adds in all sorts of potential for managing aggro through powers, which I think would be a neat alternative to "true" invisibility. Bonus points for adding in a suppression mechanic.

It's very hard to see how the entire system i proposed works point by point, just like the actual game all the mechanics have to mesh together so if people only see the "10% mods" but don't also think how that relates to "6000 EHP enemies" they'll only see it as making the game considerably harder.

1. 1/10 is just a spitball, if you mod purely for damage you should have a weapon 50% stronger than the base weapon, I think this is good but I can understand if people want to feel more power progression than that. 5000% though is just ridiculous.

2. Currently armor exists so it can be stripped with corrosive/shattering impact/CP/mag/etc, I do like the armor threshold system in games like Fallout: New Vegas and it would make sense for a system like this to exist to promote the differences between primary and secondary weapons.

3. Yeah, having enemies just kind of choosing a random tenno to shoot up just doesn't make sense when nearly every other game on the market has some form of aggro management (even payday 2 has this mechanic)

1 hour ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

There are way to many issues to tackle with your version of a rework and others for that matter, because you aren't the first to do this. 

Suggesting a rework as large as this to DE is expecting a bit much. The best you could hope for is that they change the difficulty factor some other way cause this is way too much work for a lot of risk and no gain.

Saying this, would be pretty cool if they changed the enemies to behave how they do on the plains. Add lvl 100 as base to end game, give different unit types different bonuses (i.e. extra damage from kuva grineer).

Problem is you want difficulty in a game that offers rewards for grinding. So there has to be a balance between grind and difficulty. Evidence is the plague star event. I enjoy running all 4 bosses but its more efficient to run no bosses. In pub games i find that half want no difficulty and half want more.

So all in all, if DE continue to balance stuff like they have been doing with the recent content, then there should be a pretty good ratio of farm to difficulty as long as there aren't mahor issues in which the entire community complains.

That's why it's the DExtreme™ rework, it's a giant undertaking if they would ever decide to do it but the core column is that this is a very solid manner of which to create a game that the Devs CAN balance.

I don't do the hemocytes because they just don't work, non-hosts do less damage, the damage cap is just annoying, and instant kill toxin clouds are dumb and have never been a good thing. Assuming you can do a 4/4 in 14 minutes you still make less standing per minute than a group doing 4/0 (p/c). There's some people lauding it but I just can't get behind a monster that takes multiple magazines of a soma P buffed by full chroma and rhino, it's unengaging, boring, and really makes me question what the loud minority of the playerbase who act like they love this actually like.

DE's manner of balancing is to nerf something into being unsuable (see: tonkor/snoid/tbolt), they don't act like they know how to balance things to be in line with other options.

[Hellfire_Maximus]

2 hours ago, Gandergear said:

because dynamic difficulty requires hiding the numbers. Resident Evil 4 and L4D are the major uses of this system

not dynamic difficulty mate....google "Dynamic level adjustment" Dynamic game difficulty & Dynamic level adjustment are 2 completely different things

[MirageKnight]

On 4/7/2018 at 12:14 AM, Gandergear said:

Enemies are weaker as a group, the more enemies firing at you, the less damage they'll do.

This suggestion completely defies logic. No offense intended, but this would only serve to remove the "friction" needed to provide a challenge to us and slow / halt player progression. In addition, you don't seem to understand the principle of "firepower"...

Quote

 

Firepower is the military capability to direct force at an enemy. (It is not to be confused with the concept of rate of fire, which describes the cycling of the firing mechanism in a weapon system.) Firepower involves the whole range of potential weapons. The concept is generally taught as one of the three key principles of modern warfare wherein the enemy forces are destroyed or have their will to fight negated by sufficient and preferably overwhelming use of force as a result of combat operations.

Through the ages firepower has come to mean offensive power applied from a distance, thus involving ranged weapons as opposed to one-on-one close quarters combat. Firepower is thus something employed to keep enemy forces at a range where they can be defeated in detail or sapped of the will to continue.

 

In light of the fact that many in the forums are clamoring for "real challenge", I'm thinking that instead of insane enemy scaling...we should be faced with enemies with better weapons of such quantity and force that we're dissuaded from continuing further.

[Dr.Wuzzah]

3 hours ago, Gandergear said:

That's why it's the DExtreme™ rework, it's a giant undertaking if they would ever decide to do it but the core column is that this is a very solid manner of which to create a game that the Devs CAN balance.

I don't do the hemocytes because they just don't work, non-hosts do less damage, the damage cap is just annoying, and instant kill toxin clouds are dumb and have never been a good thing. Assuming you can do a 4/4 in 14 minutes you still make less standing per minute than a group doing 4/0 (p/c). There's some people lauding it but I just can't get behind a monster that takes multiple magazines of a soma P buffed by full chroma and rhino, it's unengaging, boring, and really makes me question what the loud minority of the playerbase who act like they love this actually like.

DE's manner of balancing is to nerf something into being unsuable (see: tonkor/snoid/tbolt), they don't act like they know how to balance things to be in line with other options.

It's not a solid way, because i can think of several things that they would have to rework, which would take more reworking... if you've ever done any lab, coding or anything with numbers you know changing numbers changes EVERYTHING. DE isn't about to re balance the entire game. If that's your expectation... all the best to you lol. 

"Loud minority", right.... so where is your data? Sorry to hear you don't like the event boss, but i quite enjoy him, he's challenging if you don't bring the right stuff and even then he's quite irritating. 

DE don't always nerf things into non existence, stop being dramatic. They get some stuff right and others wrong. Doesn't mean they won't come back to it eventually, probably, maybe.

 

[Gandergear]

54 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

This suggestion completely defies logic. No offense intended, but this would only serve to remove the "friction" needed to provide a challenge to us and slow / halt player progression. In addition, you don't seem to understand the principle of "firepower"...

In light of the fact that many in the forums are clamoring for "real challenge", I'm thinking that instead of insane enemy scaling...we should be faced with enemies with better weapons of such quantity and force that we're dissuaded from continuing further.

The logic is there and was explained. More enemies firing at you means more sustained DPS (you still have to kill the 50 enemies firing at you), but that DPS caps out so that way no number of enemies is capable of killing a player faster than they can reasonably react. The DPS limit is still high enough to kill a player who isn't paying attention, but not so high that you can be instant killed by some random enemy.

Then you quote wikipedia or something, good for you? CC effects allow for players to stay as long as the life support keeps flowing, so scaling enemies to take 3 minutes to kill each won't stop people except by ARTIFICIAL boundaries created by the developers, yum yum artificial gameplay, so immersive! Just look at john prodman, being hit means death so using hard CC, rhino iron skin, invisibility, etc is required to complete it. Alternatively the what was it, 3 hour survival? abuses maiming strike spam and 365 hydron abuses ivara's sleep arrows and invisibility. Giving enemies new weapons isn't going to fix that it'll just make the early game more annoying for players who can barely survive in hydron due to endo limitations.

11 minutes ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

It's not a solid way, because i can think of several things that they would have to rework, which would take more reworking... if you've ever done any lab, coding or anything with numbers you know changing numbers changes EVERYTHING. DE isn't about to re balance the entire game. If that's your expectation... all the best to you lol. 

"Loud minority", right.... so where is your data? Sorry to hear you don't like the event boss, but i quite enjoy him, he's challenging if you don't bring the right stuff and even then he's quite irritating. 

DE don't always nerf things into non existence, stop being dramatic. They get some stuff right and others wrong. Doesn't mean they won't come back to it eventually, probably, maybe.

 

I think I very clearly said that the idea of this post was to rebalance everything, reread the introduction. The post is more of a case study of how to bring balance rather than something DE could possibly find feasible to accomplish, as it requires a major rework of every system in the game. IF DE were to do this I would be very impressed and very happy, but as it stands how could they?

My data for that is that I don't like it and the sample of flooded inbox for "H plague star no catalyst" gives me an idea that maybe not everyone likes stupid tanky blobs. Since only maybe 50 messages show up for support of the dumb boss that's a vocal minority, if it was a vocal majority it'd be 5000 people. There's also a vocal minority of people who speak out against hemocytes being artifically hard to reduce the reward gains and waste time, and i'm included in that group.

I gave you those examples. None of those weapons are usable outside of MR fodder. Viver and Draco were also nerfed into nothing and a pale shadow of what it used to be.

[racooperii]

I can tell you put a lot of thought into this, but I just don't agree with it or think it would make the game more Fun or Interesting.

Honestly sounds really similar to how they handle player progression and enemy scaling in Destiny, and last I checked people were fleeing that game for Warframe. 

[GrayArchon]

1 hour ago, Gandergear said:

My data for that is that I don't like it and the sample of flooded inbox for "H plague star no catalyst" gives me an idea that maybe not everyone likes stupid tanky blobs. Since only maybe 50 messages show up for support of the dumb boss that's a vocal minority, if it was a vocal majority it'd be 5000 people. There's also a vocal minority of people who speak out against hemocytes being artifically hard to reduce the reward gains and waste time, and i'm included in that group.

I gave you those examples. None of those weapons are usable outside of MR fodder. Viver and Draco were also nerfed into nothing and a pale shadow of what it used to be.

There's an obvious error in your data collection here – people who don't mind fighting the Hemocyte are not as likely to use recruiting chat and will just jump into a public bounty and use their catalysts there. That's what I do. I find the Hemocyte encounter to be one of the more engaging boss experiences in the game, though I admit Warframe isn't great with those.

The Pandero and Chroma were nerfed slightly in the last balance pass (although Chroma also got positive tweaks to some of his abilities). I don't see anything indicating the Pandero is any less used, and Chroma is still as ubiquitous in Eidolon raids as he was before the balance pass, despite the doomsaying of many. Also, the Synoid Simulor still wrecks face, even Sedna-level Grineer, as long as you detonate the orbs. Calling it MR fodder is the worst mischaracterisation I've heard all day.

This is my first time chiming in on this thread, so I'll just say: I have little problem with enemy scaling or the power differential between new and veteran players. I think new players seeing a fashionframed prime warframe jumping in and obliterating everything before them is a good thing: it gives the new player something to look up to and strive for. It takes a while to get there, but if the player didn't want to put in the time (or, alternatively, money) to get there… then, honestly, this probably isn't the game for them. Warframe cannot possibly appeal to all human beings, and at the end of the day it's a grindy farming game where you collect things and do some stat calculating to get better. I think someone who's sunk the time into Warframe should be able to be 5000% more powerful (your words) than a new player. That doesn't sound ridiculous, that sounds fun.

Enemy scaling, as I see it, is DE's way of telling you to leave the mission. When the enemies start one-shotting you, maybe extract, get better, collect more things, and try again. Or, if you're all kitted out going up against Mot or some other "endgame" mission, know that you're pushing the limit. At some point, you really shouldn't be able to continue. That's what infinite scaling means to me, anyways. As for using cheese methods to bypass the soft wall presented by enemy scaling… I haven't really formed an opinion. Take out the cheese, or leave it in, I can see arguments for both and I don't much care one way or the other.

I think all of your changes are unnecessary, purporting to solve problems I don't see, and would, at the end of the day, make my experience less fun. Just my thoughts.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

can we just try and get everyone to agree that we shouldnt complain about difficulty at any point beyond level 100?

[racooperii]

3 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

can we just try and get everyone to agree that we shouldnt complain about difficulty at any point beyond level 100?

^ This. I'm pretty sure the scaling is working as intended, up to the highest Presented Level(Sortie/Kuva Floods) and anything you find past that in Endless is as a previous poster said "An indication that you're hitting your limit and need to get out" at higher tiers.

 

[True_Naeblis]

54 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

can we just try and get everyone to agree that we shouldnt complain about difficulty at any point beyond level 100?

If they properly fix things like enemy aim and our evasion actually working then it should be something that fixes how the game plays at all levels. People should still certainly point out the issues that become glaring beyond level 100, though.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

54 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

If they properly fix things like enemy aim and our evasion actually working then it should be something that fixes how the game plays at all levels. People should still certainly point out the issues that become glaring beyond level 100, though.

i dunno about you, but evasion seems to work pretty fine for me, i've lost count of the number of times the game's hidden evasion system has allowed me to make it to extraction with only 5 health after a botched survival run.

As for the beyond lvl 100 issue, there is no "official" content that is greater than lvl 100.
Endless doesn't count because if it does, then when do we stop balancing? lvl 150? 250? 500? 9999? At what point are we allowed to say "ok from here on out, it's your own damn fault if you cant handle it"?

[LuckyCharm]

I like the nerf everything idea. If the majority of the content was challenging rather than the minority it would be more enguaging to play

[True_Naeblis]

4 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

i dunno about you, but evasion seems to work pretty fine for me, i've lost count of the number of times the game's hidden evasion system has allowed me to make it to extraction with only 5 health after a botched survival run.

As for the beyond lvl 100 issue, there is no "official" content that is greater than lvl 100.
Endless doesn't count because if it does, then when do we stop balancing? lvl 150? 250? 500? 9999? At what point are we allowed to say "ok from here on out, it's your own damn fault if you cant handle it"?

The way the game's aim works is pretty well documented, and dodging and the like does nothing beyond a certain point. At level 1 or 100 that shouldn't happen.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

Just now, True_Naeblis said:

The way the game's aim works is pretty well documented, and dodging and the like does nothing beyond a certain point. At level 1 or 100 that shouldn't happen.

is it documented in game? because i dont remember there ever being a mention of parkour increasing your evasion statistic, in fact i dont think there is any mention of the evasion statistic outside of razorwing