Updating Valkyr

[peterc3]

20 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

A health bar while in hysteria (so rage can actually work to counter the extreme cost, even if she stays invincible with a health treshold)

This won't happen. The extreme cost is by design. In the unlikely event Rage is allowed to work, the cost would start even higher. If they wanted you to stay in Hysteria longer, they wouldn't have added the ramp-up in cost.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb peterc3:

This won't happen. The extreme cost is by design. In the unlikely event Rage is allowed to work, the cost would start even higher. If they wanted you to stay in Hysteria longer, they wouldn't have added the ramp-up in cost.

The design also provides pointless healing. It's frickin flawed as it is.

Edited April 25, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[HanShotFirst]

12 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

The design also provides pointless healing. It's frickin flawed as it is.

How is it flawed? Hysteria is an "oh sh_t" button. With a full bar of energy I'm able to maintain it for more than two and a half minutes. In most situations that's plenty of time to clear the room, revive any fallen teammates and get to a safe place to toggle it off.

[GPrime96]

12 minutes ago, HanShotFirst said:

How is it flawed? Hysteria is an "oh sh_t" button. With a full bar of energy I'm able to maintain it for more than two and a half minutes. In most situations that's plenty of time to clear the room, revive any fallen teammates and get to a safe place to toggle it off.

Or you can murder the enemies after you revive the Ally and turn it off. Valkyr is probably the easiest option to reviving Teammates since she can ignore the enemies damaging her and since she uses Exalted Talons, she can kill the enemies attempting to kill her in Hysteria.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb HanShotFirst:

How is it flawed? Hysteria is an "oh sh_t" button. With a full bar of energy I'm able to maintain it for more than two and a half minutes. In most situations that's plenty of time to clear the room, revive any fallen teammates and get to a safe place to toggle it off.

It provides healing that looses its entire function after a hit or two.

It stacks up damage that could literally be healed if you are not using it.

It isn't straight up invulnerability for the cost but more of a 70% damage reduction with a delay (the most expensive of its kind). Reviving, healing and whatever is thus only possible if it is actually possible to clear a room and more or less impossible in game types that spawn enemys....what's the only game types that would require a panic button in the first place.

The fact that it is a damage reduction keeps armor and strength important even if you're focusing on it, what's in conflict with its very nature. 2 minutes on what? A maximised Hysteria build where it is not or rather should not be just a panic button? Where you suffer from the biggest damage?

What about hysterias limitations? For a panic button type of short living ability, it provides you with awfully little modding options on your melee.

How is that even a question? Does this ability make sense to you? Even as a panic button?

Edited April 26, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

By the way. On valkyr with warcry active I have something like 3000 armor and attack 72% faster. Mixed with something like the infested brawling gloves, brutal tide, primed reach and berserker, everything that sees me coming turns around and runs, everything that doesn't see me coming doesn't see me cause my claws are in their eye sockets... Valkyr may not be the flashiest frame but she is the one you don't want to be in a room with if you have a weak stomach. 

[----Fenrir----]

Valkyr could do with a little love. Hysteria is basically back to how it was back in the day before it scaled with weapon mods and basically did no damage. It's pretty much only good to revive teammates, plop life support, or as a panic button to prevent dying. For combat a good melee weapon + Warcry is a better choice that does not sucks you dry of energy in a few seconds. Ability kinda needs a rework.

Another ability that could do with a change would be "Warcry". The buff part (especially with the "Eternal War" augment mod) is pretty good. The parts that needs some work is the enemy de-buff part of the ability. It's basically useless since it only affects enemies while you cast it and for an ability with a long duration that can even run for hours with the augment mod that pretty much means the de-buff part does nothing for you.

Changing the de-buff into an aura that's active and slows enemies down around you as long as "Warcry" is active would make the ability much more useful. Even a range reduction to the aura for balance reasons would be in order imho. Giving her an aura that slows down enemies would also increase her usefulness in groups.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I can't take anyone seriously who advocates for the removal of her invincibility.

[GPrime96]

19 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Valkyr could do with a little love. Hysteria is basically back to how it was back in the day before it scaled with weapon mods and basically did no damage. It's pretty much only good to revive teammates, plop life support, or as a panic button to prevent dying. Ability kinda needs a rework.

How you do no damage in Hysteria? It should do way more than enough damage. What could make WarCry beside a Slow down Aura is being Recastable and Turn the Armor into Damage Reduction. At least 80% because 90% would be too much for her Armor. The Damage Reduction would make Warcry Compatitable with squishy and tanky frames instead of tanky frames like now.

Edited April 26, 2018 by VPrime96

[CrazyValkyr]

Spoiler

I play Valkyr too much (no such thing) a lot - and I find that after Hysteria got nerfed, there's simply no reason to even build towards it.

Now, don't get me wrong. I understand, that the concept of complete invulnerability was too much; it needed a change as people were mostly using it as a complete crutch, but the way this was done killed Hysteria entirely. It's not even good as a panic-button anymore - The casting-time is too slow. When you're a Valkyr and need to heal yourself, it's when enemies are very likely ramping up way above their 100's. There's no time to just wait for your Hysteria to pop, and if you do it, you're risking an embarassing death. That, or you have to disengage your enemies and hide, in hopes you'll cast it in time, and then hit enemies to self-heal. And, even if you do such a quick burst, you may be unlucky, and if you got enough damage, you can even get killed or damaged more, than before you actually used it. 

There are presently better options for us, to have self-heals. Be it a well-built companion (Kavat or a Sentinel), Arcane Grace set. Not to mention things like Life Strike or Healing return, if that's your thing.

Revives? Nah - it's much safer to use your Operator nowadays - in the Void mode invulnerable, and if you invested enough into your Focus schools, it'll last you long enough to revive your teammates without a risk.

Additionally, a lot of melee mods don't work on Hysteria, making it even less useful or appealing.

Not to mention many glitches and bugs - For instance, if you use it in short bursts for self-heals, you can get your animations completelly stuck, leaving you without an option to attack, use other abilities or even switch to your Operator.

Hysteria needs a change, that will make it a viable power once again - I think removing the invulnerability and killer bubble entirely would be a first step. Keep the immunity to knockdowns and other status effects perhaps, keep the life-steal, and perhaps grant buffs on being damaged. I know Chroma has something similar - but Berserker, in the true meaning of the word, is more dangerous, the more damage they take. Currently, what we have, is not a Berserker-themed power; as Valkyr was originally designed to be.

----

Warcry is THE thing for Valkyr - I'd agree that if the slow-down effect was more of an aura, when it slows down the enemies based on your range could be a nice change - as when it's purely active on those, who are within reach upon casting - let's be honest.. any Valkyr worth their money will dispatch these few poor souls within matter of seconds. Other than that, I'd not touch Warcry, it's awesome and fun ability.

Paralysis - Again, very situational power, and its' impact is not high enough to be worth to even build for it. In my opinion anyways.

Ewgh. Wall of text. I'll stop myself right there.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 1 Minute schrieb VPrime96:

How you do no damage in Hysteria? It should do way more than enough damage.

It's base damage is where any other exalted ability is, with the difference that she can not:

*profit from combo due to its cost - like Wukong does. Play him well and he has the same kinda invulnerability Valkyr does for a fair power cost. His Primal Fury, using Primal rage gets a higher crit chance then Valkyrs hysteria does and is able to scale with the Gladiator set bonus.

*profit from range or CO cause its a short ranged melee with a low status chance - like excals EB does. Not only does it slash trough a lot enemys and sets them up for status, excal is able to Cc them for additional Stealth multipliers, what pretty much equals her speed boost.

...it is pretty much the bottom line when it comes to exalted abilities. Compared to those, it does no damage.

[GPrime96]

4 minutes ago, CrazyValkyr said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 Hysteria needs a change, that will make it a viable power once again - I think removing the invulnerability and killer bubble entirely would be a first step. Keep the immunity to knockdowns and other status effects perhaps, keep the life-steal, and perhaps grant buffs on being damaged. I know Chroma has something similar - but Berserker, in the true meaning of the word, is more dangerous, the more damage they take. Currently, what we have, is not a Berserker-themed power; as Valkyr was originally designed to be.

But chroma’s Vex Armor is not in a good place though. Yeah you can get more damage and Armor from Him but his Survivibility has gone through the floor so with this, WarCry and life strike/Healing return would give you the same results.

[HanShotFirst]

17 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It provides healing that looses its entire function after a hit or two.

So getting to full health after a hit or two is bad... because why again? You'd prefer if it didn't heal or if the healing took more hits? What am I missing here?

17 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It stacks up damage that could literally be healed if you are not using it.

Not following. Can you rephrase this?

17 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It isn't straight up invulnerability for the cost but more of a 70% damage reduction with a delay (the most expensive of its kind). Reviving, healing and whatever is thus only possible if it is actually possible to clear a room and more or less impossible in game types that spawn enemys....what's the only game types that would require a panic button in the first place.

Again, not following you. How is it not "straight up invulnerability" and where did you derive this 70% damage reduction figure? 

17 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

The fact...

You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

17 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

What about hysterias limitations? For a panic button type of short living ability, it provides you with awfully little modding options on your melee.

How is that even a question? Does this ability make sense to you? Even as a panic button?

I'm still trying to make sense of your post(s). 

Didn't you start by saying there isn't much wrong and that you find Hysteria's design rather nice?

Sorry, best I can figure is you prefer how another warframe functions and are trying really hard to make Valkyr similar if not identical?

Edited April 27, 2018 by HanShotFirst
Typos

[EinheriarJudith]

10 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I can't take anyone seriously who advocates for the removal of her invincibility.

just like i cant take anyone seriously who needs a crutch like invincibility to survive.

[EinheriarJudith]

id love a hysteria that severly boosted its exalted damage but weakened your defenses. would actually give use to its life steal. she has warcry so she doesnt need invincibility.

[VioletGoblin]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

just like i cant take anyone seriously who needs a crutch like invincibility to survive.

I agree.

Unless you play 3+ hour survival missions, were enemies truly get to the point were they can one shot you, hard invincibility is unnecessary.

[GPrime96]

2 minutes ago, VioletGoblin said:

I agree.

Unless you play 3+ hour survival missions, were enemies truly get to the point were they can one shot you, hard invincibility is unnecessary.

Or 1 hour+ in MOT. Enemies in lvl 100 - 180 at MOT can one shot you as Valkyr with WarCry.

Edited April 27, 2018 by VPrime96

[HanShotFirst]

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

id love a hysteria that severly boosted its exalted damage but weakened your defenses. would actually give use to its life steal. she has warcry so she doesnt need invincibility.

You're having difficulty killing things with Hysteria, but simultaneously chastising the ability as a "crutch"?

Um, okay.
 

1 hour ago, VPrime96 said:

Or 1 hour+ in MOT. Enemies in lvl 100 - 180 at MOT can one shot you as Valkyr with WarCry.

There's been a few events as well such as Rathuum and another that escapes my memory (had a pretty brutal juggernaut boss IIRC) which benefited greatly from Hysteria's invincibility "crutch".

[GPrime96]

4 minutes ago, HanShotFirst said:

There's been a few events as well such as Rathuum and another that escapes my memory (had a pretty brutal juggernaut boss IIRC) which benefited greatly from Hysteria's invincibility "crutch".

We have Scrambus, Ancient Disruptors, Alad V, Isolator Bursa, and Stalker which can Counter Hysteria's Invincibility so there's no reason to remove Valkyr's Invincibility when he have unfun enemies like them. Was you thinking of the Juggernaut Behemoth?

Edited April 27, 2018 by VPrime96

[Olianu]

On 4/23/2018 at 12:29 AM, VioletGoblin said:

Next is hysteria. The worse thing about hysteria it that it can easily put Valkyr in a situation that can cause instant death if she make contact with a nullifier bubble.

Am I building/using her wrong?  I've never seen this happen and I had to intentionally stay in hysteria and take as much damage as possible just to get that kind of damage.

I would seriously miss the passive knockdown recovery, I find it pretty handy to get up and out of the way when a bombard or ancient knocks me down.

[GPrime96]

1 minute ago, Olianu said:

Am I building/using her wrong?  I've never seen this happen and I had to intentionally stay in hysteria and take as much damage as possible just to get that kind of damage.

You're not. The Self Damage is Impact so the damage is minor unless you stay in Hysteria.

[mrrobotto67]

TBH my only issue with Valkyr is ripline, you can get to the same places using bullet jump, and that ability just aiming one enemy it just feels out of position. Maybe what it could be done, is instead of just pulling one enemy, how about pulling x ammount of enemies in a tight cone and getting them close to Valkyr and not behind her.

Warcry to me is fine, even tho i would like the debuffs be like an aura around Valkyr instead of just affecting on cast.

Paralysis is fine as it is, you won't kill anything with it directly, but you get free finishers.

And Hysteria, my only issue is the augment, it is so meh ... 

[HanShotFirst]

21 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

We have Scrambus, Ancient Disruptors, Alad V, Isolator Bursa, and Stalker which can Counter Hysteria's Invincibility so there's no reason to remove Valkyr's Invincibility when he have unfun enemies like them. Was you thinking of the Juggernaut Behemoth?

It may have been a Tactical Alert? It was definitely infested, but I can't recall if it was a juggernaut or phorid style mob. 

I know it was around the same time as The War Within, as certain new "abilities" were suggested as the means to get past its defenses and damage it.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, HanShotFirst said:

You're having difficulty killing things with Hysteria, but simultaneously chastising the ability as a "crutch"?

Um, okay.
 

There's been a few events as well such as Rathuum and another that escapes my memory (had a pretty brutal juggernaut boss IIRC) which benefited greatly from Hysteria's invincibility "crutch".

you misunderstood. im talking about a replacement for the invincibility. show me where i said i was having trouble. infact her exalted weapons damage is crazy. but when you call a frame a berserker damage goes up defense goes down but i guess  you didnt catch that.....

Edited April 27, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb HanShotFirst:

So getting to full health after a hit or two is bad... because why again? You'd prefer if it didn't heal or if the healing took more hits? What am I missing here?

Not following. Can you rephrase this?

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Hysteria

The wiki entry. Sorry btw, missed the second reduction. It is closer to 92% since:

Valkyr emits an aura with a radius of 5 meters around her while Hysteria is active, and 30% of the total damage she ignores is stored. If any enemies within this aura have line-of-sight of Valkyr when Hysteria is deactivated, Valkyr will be dealt 25% of all stored damage as Impact damage.

So much rather then beein invulnerable you're getting a damage reduction that stores 30% of the damage and then unleashes 25% on you if you are not ...essencially outside of battle when it ends. 

This ^^^^^^ stored damage is ignored by your healing. Any other frame with a 90% reduction would be able to heal it perfectly fine in higher levels, Valkyr isn't. On her low health pool, you might as well use a sentinel with medi ray. It doesn't make much of a differerence whether or not it heals you.

I like its design as a exalted ability, i can deal with it having high cost but that the cost beein justified by a reduction other frames do better for less energy, that it disqualifies as the panic button it is supposed to be by requiring you to specificly build for it, that is bad design.

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108