Is Onslaught and Khora Blueprints Acquisition DE's worst move yet?

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

10 minutes ago, Buff00n said:

With a coin flip you can say the expected average number of flips to get a heads is 2, with 90% confidence at 4 flips, and 99% confidence at 7 flips.  One in a hundred people flipping a coin will take seven or more flips to get a heads.  Expected values and percent confidence levels are real tools statisticians use to put meaningful numbers on something that technically has no guarantees.

 

This is my point.  Don't let "possible" outcomes deter you from trying.

[Buff00n]

12 minutes ago, rune_me said:

This makes no sense. What does it matter if I spend nine hours farming for Khora, or nine hours doing something else in the game? Nine hours spend playing Warframe is nine hours spend playing Warframe regardless of what you do in game. How would my time become more "valuable" if I ran defense missions or bounties instead?

For a player who doesn't care for Onslaught, or even a player who likes Onslaught but would rather play the elite version, time spent farming Khora is time not spent doing something they want to do.  That's the definition of work.  Your hours are valuable because you only get 24 of them per day.

 

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

This is my point.  Don't let "possible" outcomes deter you from trying.

My point is that there is a difference between "guaranteed outcome" and "expected outcome".  You are correct that the former does not exist and you shouldn't make decisions based on it.  But the latter definitely does exist, and we can calculate it.  It tells us that, if regular Onslaught isn't your thing, then on average you're better off spending your time doing Eidolon runs and selling arcanes.

[rune_me]

10 minutes ago, Buff00n said:

For a player who doesn't care for Onslaught, or even a player who likes Onslaught but would rather play the elite version, time spent farming Khora is time not spent doing something they want to do.  That's the definition of work.  Your hours are valuable because you only get 24 of them per day.

But that's true for everything in the game. Or for any game, or any type of entertainment for that matter. Why would you play onslaught if you don't enjoy it, at all? Even if it was only 3 hours, that would still be 3 hours doing something you don't enjoy. That would be dumb. I still don't have Atlas (the only frame in the game I'm missing) because I dislike Archwing. If you don't like onslaught, just don't play it. That would be like watching a movie you found boring, instead of, you know, turning it off and watching a better movie instead.  That's not DE's fault, that's your own for putting yourself through it.

Missing a frame in the game is not the end of the world. The only point that would be a big issue, is if you are MR 25 and own everything else and Khora is the only thing in the game you are missing. At which point you probably have more plat than you know what to do with and could just buy her anyway.

[BloodForCavalero]

Cutting the number of relics by half, would be a significant change and the right move for DE. As it stands, over 50% of the reward table for each rotation are relics and we already have a number of ways to farm them. If they were vaulted ones, I wouldn't mind. 

It took me 6 days to get Khora's chassis (which drops as frequently as an Oberon part), Neuroptics, and her BP. If there's a sacrifice I need to make in the Lotus's name, please let me know. Her systems BP refuses to drop for me.

Then, again. After the buffs to Onslaught mobs, I can't get a pub group that can reach Zone 8, let alone pass Zone 6.

Edited May 3, 2018 by VoightIsMySpiritAnimal

[rune_me]

3 minutes ago, VoightIsMySpiritAnimal said:

Then, again. After the buffs to Onslaught mobs, I can't get a pub group that can reach Zone 8, let alone pass Zone 6.

How can you not reach zone 8? Now that they have reversed the efficiency drain changed, it should not be a problem. I only play pub, and whether playing elite or regular I have never managed to not reach zone 8 even once (only for the short time the efficiency drain was crazy did I fail it). You should be able to do it solo with a good AoE frame without much issues.

[Kyronz]

Khora was not much fun, it was a long slog to get all the parts, about the same as the old T3S...but none of the rewards that T3S gave.

[Buff00n]

29 minutes ago, rune_me said:

But that's true for everything in the game. Or for any game, or any type of entertainment for that matter. Why would you play onslaught if you don't enjoy it, at all? Even if it was only 3 hours, that would still be 3 hours doing something you don't enjoy. That would be dumb. I still don't have Atlas (the only frame in the game I'm missing) because I dislike Archwing. If you don't like onslaught, just don't play it. That would be like watching a movie you found boring, instead of, you know, turning it off and watching a better movie instead.  That's not DE's fault, that's your own for putting yourself through it.

Missing a frame in the game is not the end of the world. The only point that would be a big issue, is if you are MR 25 and own everything else and Khora is the only thing in the game you are missing. At which point you probably have more plat than you know what to do with and could just buy her anyway.

Hey man, find me online some time and I'll take you to get Atlas.  I'm 90% confident that it will require no more than an hour and a half 

[rune_me]

8 minutes ago, Buff00n said:

Hey man, find me online some time and I'll take you to get Atlas.  I'm 90% confident that it will require no more than an hour and a half 

Thanks man, I might actually take you up on that offer. I'll add you to my friendlist next time I'm in game.

[-ZeroStar-]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Clearly, you're no "whale" if you're not spending on the frames/new content.  Also, there is no "greed" in a company that offers ALL of their content for FREE.  They DO need to push sales at some point, otherwise they and their 250+ employees have no way to feed their families.

That being said...play or don't play.  Really don't care, if that's how you're going to be about it.

I never stated I was a whale.  Though I have spent hundreds on this game.  There is greed in every company.  ALL of their content is not free, not by a long shot.  They do need to push sales, no one is stating they don't.  

You really don't seem to understand the points people are making but just troll the forums, good luck with life!

[BloodForCavalero]

4 hours ago, rune_me said:

How can you not reach zone 8? Now that they have reversed the efficiency drain changed, it should not be a problem. I only play pub, and whether playing elite or regular I have never managed to not reach zone 8 even once (only for the short time the efficiency drain was crazy did I fail it). You should be able to do it solo with a good AoE frame without much issues.

I mostly use Rhino P. 

Any tips would be great, as my Mend & Maim Equinox can't keep her energy going.

[BladeRambler]

I don't understand the impatience here. The game mode just came out and it's way better than Defection which was our last new mission type besides the Plains.

Don't forget the first rule of Warframe is to combine farms and don't burn out focusing on one item at a time. I like regular Onslaught: I use it to simultaneously level gear, gain focus with already-leveled gear, acquire relics/endo (which I can convert to plat easily) and eventually get Khora. It's essentially the same mechanic as survival, but it's much more focused and ramps-up the difficulty (and fun!) much faster.

Also, I will never go to Hydron or Akkad again and snooze through another defense while I'm forma-ing gear, so that alone is worth it.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

6 hours ago, -ZeroStar- said:

I never stated I was a whale.  Though I have spent hundreds on this game.  There is greed in every company.  ALL of their content is not free, not by a long shot.  They do need to push sales, no one is stating they don't.  

You really don't seem to understand the points people are making but just troll the forums, good luck with life!

I'm not trolling anyone.  It was stated that "If DE continues this, they can say goodbye to their "whales"" etc, etc.  I'm paraphrasing, but barely.  

And claiming every company has "greed" is a baseless accusation based only on your opinion.  For example, I own a company, and I'm not in it for "greed".  I'm in it to feed my family, keep the lights on, and yeah maybe afford a better vacation.  That's not greed....that's just the point of doing business.  ALL of their content IS free, save for exclusives in the PSN/XBox stores, etc.  Things like the Tennocon package.  That in no way affects the gameplay.  There is no GAMEPLAY gated by purchases.

It isn't -EASY-, no, but that's not the same thing as impossible to play free.

You keep using the word "greed" in a way that implies any company who wishes to make money (which is literally any company, being that's the point of a business) is "greedy".  

I mean, they've got over 250 employees!  That, times an average salary of part-timers of, let's say on the lower end, $30k is $7,500,000.  That is JUST the cost of employees on the LOW end, not counting the cost of operating an entire office, licensing, taxes, and so on.

And they STILL do this all without Ads or Forced Payments.  

So yeah....ain't about greed anymore than you eating breakfast is about gluttony.  It's just survival.

[ArcKnight9202]

I have played this mode off and on a few times since it was released. I got 2 parts right away but I still need the last 2 on Rotation C. I decided to wait out the updates and fixes for bugs before I continued. (Just to note I still encounter a ton of bugs that make this a pain to play)

I think some of the changes make this mode(Normal mode only) worse than how it started. Since people can now bring things to level, there is not much incentive for people to stick out a full 8 rounds if they cap their gear. If you and the other players are also leveling items/whatever, it only becomes more difficult to continue if you aren't playing Boreframe(map nukes of whatever flavor). This is also true if the people got lucky with Rotation C Khora parts and only need to stay for the A and B rotations before they extract. I haven't seen a full party get to Rotation C since this change went live.

Another problem I see is the removal of Khora from Elite's drop tables. I know a lot of people think that's great(conceptually, I agree). My issue with this is that the "meta" players will just bring their biggest nuke and take a dump on the map for 20 minutes making the entire game mode as boring as possible. I guess they might want Focus but that's better gained in Elite. Unfortunately, they have to slog through Normal with the rest of us that have no interest in playing Elite for whatever reason.

Speaking personally, I absolutely loathe Survival. Sanctuary Onslaught, to me, is just Survival. I hate Survival because there is no goal. It is my least favorite game mode by miles(yes, I prefer Defection over this). Waiting for 20 minutes for a chance at 1 of 2 drops just sucks the fun away and there is no way to speed it up. This is compounded by the all-too-often meta spam. Relics and Focus don't interest me. It really is the place where fun goes to die.

If I were to offer a solution to alleviate this grind a bit, it would be to remove the Blueprint from Normal Rotation C, and maybe put it in Elite Rotation A or something. This way, people can more quickly graduate out of Normal and then dabble in Elite for far better rewards. Other ideas such as selling it for Simaris standing are also great alternatives.

These are all my opinions, feel free to not share them.

Edited May 5, 2018 by ArcKnight9202
Clarity

[-ZeroStar-]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I'm not trolling anyone.  It was stated that "If DE continues this, they can say goodbye to their "whales"" etc, etc.  I'm paraphrasing, but barely.  

And claiming every company has "greed" is a baseless accusation based only on your opinion.  For example, I own a company, and I'm not in it for "greed".  I'm in it to feed my family, keep the lights on, and yeah maybe afford a better vacation.  That's not greed....that's just the point of doing business.  ALL of their content IS free, save for exclusives in the PSN/XBox stores, etc.  Things like the Tennocon package.  That in no way affects the gameplay.  There is no GAMEPLAY gated by purchases.

It isn't -EASY-, no, but that's not the same thing as impossible to play free.

You keep using the word "greed" in a way that implies any company who wishes to make money (which is literally any company, being that's the point of a business) is "greedy".  

I mean, they've got over 250 employees!  That, times an average salary of part-timers of, let's say on the lower end, $30k is $7,500,000.  That is JUST the cost of employees on the LOW end, not counting the cost of operating an entire office, licensing, taxes, and so on.

And they STILL do this all without Ads or Forced Payments.  

So yeah....ain't about greed anymore than you eating breakfast is about gluttony.  It's just survival.

Baseless?  Far from it.  Businesses only exist to make a profit.  No, again, not all of their content is free... Tennogen being one, Prime Access, etc.  Skins are content.  There are many different classifications of content, just in gaming alone. $140 for Prime Access for, what you consider to be, 'non-content'?  Find me another game on the entire planet that charges $140 for non-content related in-game items... It has long been stated that if the prices were low a VAST amount of more people would buy them, equaling more money.  People are literally saying, do this, we will pay money for it, but they won't budge, and you don't think that's not greedy?  In 2014, they sold 61% of their stock to Perfect Online, a subsidiary of Perfect World, for 73.2 MILLION dollars... They're not hurting for money...  That's 73k per person per year... JUST from selling their stock, that's with ZERO profits from the game coming in... And you're trying to pass that off as 'survival' LMFAO...  Really dude, you have no argument for it and neither do they, and that is the problem here...

They're saying spend $140 on this exclusive content or don't get it at all.  Greed is NOT just about money, but also power.  By not offering it in the ways their customers have been asking for years now, they're losing money, because they care more about the power of it instead of the money aspect...  You really think that Warframe is the only F2P game with a cash shop that is making money?  Like really?  Fortnite? HotS?  Rift? SMITE? LoL? Dota 2? PoE? Hearthstone? GW2 (one time buy), The vast majority of Android and Apple apps?  I mean really dude?  Also, I said there was no other excuse for them lowering the drop rates on Khora but greed, by saying you can farm until you don't want to play or you can just pay plat for her... I was stating that it's an OBVIOUS ploy to avoid the HORRIBLE grind... What is the driving purpose behind that?  Greed...

The math alone is ridiculous.  The grind for Khora, is worse than the Ivara, Nidus, and Harrow farms COMBINED... Coming from a company that recently said they're trying to get away from the 'grindfest'... This is kinda the exact opposite of what they just said... 

Don't compare eating, which is essential to living to greed which all life can live, happily, without.  One is a desire, one is a function of life...   Lastly, eating breakfast isn't gluttony, eating a HUGE breakfast is.  You can't just dry compare things that aren't really comparable and think your point is proven... All it does is add-on that you don't know what you're talking about.

[rune_me]

11 hours ago, VoightIsMySpiritAnimal said:

I mostly use Rhino P. 

Any tips would be great, as my Mend & Maim Equinox can't keep her energy going.

Equinox: just go low power strength and high duration/efficiency and as much range as you can squeeze in. I think it's better for group play than solo.

For elite solo you kind of just have to cheese things. Saryn with spore+toxic lash works well if you can stay alive. Or just bring your maiming strike and spin2win.

When I play pub, I've found that there is almost always a equinox and/or saryn or some other DPS frame in the group. Usually more. So I just bring Trinity to heal and keep everyone else's energy up. And then a good melee with lots of range so I can still kill things.

[rune_me]

2 hours ago, -ZeroStar- said:

It has long been stated that if the prices were low a VAST amount of more people would buy them, equaling more money.  People are literally saying, do this, we will pay money for it, but they won't budge, and you don't think that's not greedy?

They obviously would not make more money. Selling something to one person for $140 is still better than selling it to 10 people for $10. And that's not greedy, that's just basic business.

2 hours ago, -ZeroStar- said:

by saying you can farm until you don't want to play or you can just pay plat for her

Which is true for every single obtainable item in the game. You either farm and acquire it in game, or you buy it with plat. This is how it has always been. If you are surprised by that, then you must be very very new to the game.

 

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

*snip*

Quick question...does your company have shareholders? If not....then do not compare yourself to DE. This is not an attack on you but just a simple way of saying that in all likelihood your company runs vastly differently from DE. 

Stocks and shares thrive on profit maximization that go well beyond "feeding your family and employees". 

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

They obviously would not make more money. Selling something to one person for $140 is still better than selling it to 10 people for $10. And that's not greedy, that's just basic business

 

This is not so obvious at all. It is just you assigning fictive numbers to your argument to illustrate a very narrow interpretation of price economics. 

Your argument is easily dismissed by saying that lowering the price to $14,10 and selling it to 10 people is better than selling 1 item to 1 person for  $140. 

What you are arguing is that whether or not lowering the price will increase income is not a very easily answered question and depends on several factors that require research. And in that sense you would be right when you conclude that it isn't an automatic given and that there is a point where lowering the price will not yield more income. 

The opposite is also true...it isn't an automatic given that the price setting we have now is in fact optimal. You can assume a company selected the best pricing system for everybody....but in the vast majority of cases you would be wrong. Often companies select the best pricing system for themselves for a variety of reasons or out of concerns and priorities that have nothing to do with The numeric part of pricing economics at all. 

The point is WE can't answer this question with as much certainty as you and the other person are doing since we do not have enough information. 

And "it is just business" doesn't negate greed. Much of business has to do with profit maximization. And if you sell something for $140 with a profit margin of 20% or 60% makes all the difference.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Quick question...does your company have shareholders? If not....then do not compare yourself to DE. This is not an attack on you but just a simple way of saying that in all likelihood your company runs vastly differently from DE. 

Stocks and shares thrive on profit maximization that go well beyond "feeding your family and employees". 

At the end of the day, even shareholders just wanna pay their bills.  My company DOES run vastly different from DE, but again, the PURPOSE of a business remains the same -- to make money.

My real point was that Wanting to make money =/= greed.  I have never felt, nor would there be evidence to support the idea that, DE takes more than it needs from players. All it ever does is offer more (for FREE) and say "hey, yeah, by the way, if you like what we do-- ya can support us by purchasing more cool stuff! ...ya know...if ya want.  Ya don't have to though...: 

Khora's means of acquisition might make some players feel "pressured" into spending, as is the case with MANY other frames, but it isn't as if DE has a guy sitting at a computer, staring at Tom playing Warframe and CHOOSING whether this run is the run where he'll get Khora's BP. 

It's just chance. It's fair.  As many have stated, they even got EVERY part in their first afternoon of trying!  Ya know, the Casino doesn't need to change the entire game of Blackjack just because you get a bad hand, or even a bad run.  That's what it is to play the odds.

In any case, greed has nothing to do with this.  This just seems to me that some peeps are upset about not getting what they wanted when they wanted it and now want to burn it all down.

It's fine.  I'm still trying to get Equinox.  Ain't complaining.  I'll get it when I get it.  Simple as that. 😕  Patience is a virtue.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

5 hours ago, -ZeroStar- said:

Baseless?  Far from it.  Businesses only exist to make a profit.  No, again, not all of their content is free... Tennogen being one, Prime Access, etc.  Skins are content.  There are many different classifications of content, just in gaming alone. $140 for Prime Access for, what you consider to be, 'non-content'?  Find me another game on the entire planet that charges $140 for non-content related in-game items... It has long been stated that if the prices were low a VAST amount of more people would buy them, equaling more money.  People are literally saying, do this, we will pay money for it, but they won't budge, and you don't think that's not greedy?  In 2014, they sold 61% of their stock to Perfect Online, a subsidiary of Perfect World, for 73.2 MILLION dollars... They're not hurting for money...  That's 73k per person per year... JUST from selling their stock, that's with ZERO profits from the game coming in... And you're trying to pass that off as 'survival' LMFAO...  Really dude, you have no argument for it and neither do they, and that is the problem here...

They're saying spend $140 on this exclusive content or don't get it at all.  Greed is NOT just about money, but also power.  By not offering it in the ways their customers have been asking for years now, they're losing money, because they care more about the power of it instead of the money aspect...  You really think that Warframe is the only F2P game with a cash shop that is making money?  Like really?  Fortnite? HotS?  Rift? SMITE? LoL? Dota 2? PoE? Hearthstone? GW2 (one time buy), The vast majority of Android and Apple apps?  I mean really dude?  Also, I said there was no other excuse for them lowering the drop rates on Khora but greed, by saying you can farm until you don't want to play or you can just pay plat for her... I was stating that it's an OBVIOUS ploy to avoid the HORRIBLE grind... What is the driving purpose behind that?  Greed...

The math alone is ridiculous.  The grind for Khora, is worse than the Ivara, Nidus, and Harrow farms COMBINED... Coming from a company that recently said they're trying to get away from the 'grindfest'... This is kinda the exact opposite of what they just said... 

Don't compare eating, which is essential to living to greed which all life can live, happily, without.  One is a desire, one is a function of life...   Lastly, eating breakfast isn't gluttony, eating a HUGE breakfast is.  You can't just dry compare things that aren't really comparable and think your point is proven... All it does is add-on that you don't know what you're talking about.

........................  I'll just let @rune_me say it best  (thank you, rune, for "getting it". D:)

3 hours ago, rune_me said:

They obviously would not make more money. Selling something to one person for $140 is still better than selling it to 10 people for $10. And that's not greedy, that's just basic business.

Which is true for every single obtainable item in the game. You either farm and acquire it in game, or you buy it with plat. This is how it has always been. If you are surprised by that, then you must be very very new to the game.

 

Also, might I point out TENNOGEN IS FREE IF you have Plat from TRADES, which don't require money at -all-.   And hell, you know DE SHARES Tennogen profits WITH the creators of the ART, right?  Like, how is SHARING = greedy?  Come on, dude.... smfh

1 hour ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

This is not so obvious at all. It is just you assigning fictive numbers to your argument to illustrate a very narrow interpretation of price economics. 

Your argument is easily dismissed by saying that lowering the price to $14,10 and selling it to 10 people is better than selling 1 item to 1 person for  $140. 

What you are arguing is that whether or not lowering the price will increase income is not a very easily answered question and depends on several factors that require research. And in that sense you would be right when you conclude that it isn't an automatic given and that there is a point where lowering the price will not yield more income. 

The opposite is also true...it isn't an automatic given that the price setting we have now is in fact optimal. You can assume a company selected the best pricing system for everybody....but in the vast majority of cases you would be wrong. Often companies select the best pricing system for themselves for a variety of reasons or out of concerns and priorities that have nothing to do with The numeric part of pricing economics at all. 

The point is WE can't answer this question with as much certainty as you and the other person are doing since we do not have enough information. 

And "it is just business" doesn't negate greed. Much of business has to do with profit maximization. And if you sell something for $140 with a profit margin of 20% or 60% makes all the difference.

So your argument is.... *clears throat* ... "You don't have enough info to KNOW that lowering their prices WOULDN'T help sales, but I, with the same conjecture and info, DO KNOW that it WOULD!"  ?  Hm?  That it?

It's not GREED to make a profit.  But as long as we're making wild "guesses" here, let me throw mine in.  I'd "guess" that the company who sold shares for MILLIONS of dollars probably ISN'T losing money on current sales strategies, yeah?  If they were, they'd undoubtedly change it.  The fact that they aren't taking orders from a bunch of gamer kids who have no major sales experience (to the degree of making millions of dollars) isn't a sign of ignorance or greed, it's a sign that they clearly know what they are doing.

The sheer audacity it takes for you to claim you know better is honestly mind-blowing.

Also, just to further clarify things, though I feel this point will be lost here, just because a company has a valuation of millions of dollars, such as you pointed out in their selling shares, does NOT mean the EMPLOYEES have millions of dollars.  The money that a COMPANY has and the EMPLOYEES have are two separate bank accounts, kiddo.

For example, when my company performs a show, -I- do NOT make the fee I charge.  I make a portion of it, because most of it goes to taxes, then to expenses (gas, meals, materials, etc) and then most gets REINVESTED back into the company, NOT my pocket.  Businesses who do NOT reinvest do NOT last 5 years on a free-to-play model.

DE has constantly poured their heart, soul, and financial gain BACK into the game to improve it time and time again.  There is no sign of greed.  I ain't saying someone doesn't eat a slightly more expensive poutine than needed here or there, but that's not greed, that's enjoying what you've worked 15+ years to achieve!

If you worked your butt off at your job for years and then FINALLY got a vacation, would you just donate that check to hungry orphans?  Jeez.  The fact that you're PLAYING Warframe is PROOF you spend a little on yourself, or else you wouldn't have the GAMING SYSTEM to play on! Least of all the time to do it!

If all else fails to convince you, their SALARIES are available for public viewing on Glassdoor.  Have fun

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

At the end of the day, even shareholders just wanna pay their bills.  My company DOES run vastly different from DE, but again, the PURPOSE of a business remains the same -- to make money.

My real point was that Wanting to make money =/= greed.  I have never felt, nor would there be evidence to support the idea that, DE takes more than it needs from players. All it ever does is offer more (for FREE) and say "hey, yeah, by the way, if you like what we do-- ya can support us by purchasing more cool stuff! ...ya know...if ya want.  Ya don't have to though...: 

Khora's means of acquisition might make some players feel "pressured" into spending, as is the case with MANY other frames, but it isn't as if DE has a guy sitting at a computer, staring at Tom playing Warframe and CHOOSING whether this run is the run where he'll get Khora's BP. 

It's just chance. It's fair.  As many have stated, they even got EVERY part in their first afternoon of trying!  Ya know, the Casino doesn't need to change the entire game of Blackjack just because you get a bad hand, or even a bad run.  That's what it is to play the odds.

In any case, greed has nothing to do with this.  This just seems to me that some peeps are upset about not getting what they wanted when they wanted it and now want to burn it all down.

It's fine.  I'm still trying to get Equinox.  Ain't complaining.  I'll get it when I get it.  Simple as that. 😕  Patience is a virtue.

At the end of the day shareholders want profit. The game is entirely different. 

Making money is not necessarily greed. Making money is a necessity. But when you start talking about surplus values and profit margins you are going to get into greed territory very, very, very quickly. Everything beyond need is greed...an while "need" offers enough flexibility it has its boundaries.

And while I certainly I am not suggesting DE is greedy...what I am saying is that a 165% increase in gross profits is not immediately apparently reflected in the price settings either. (Correct me if I am wrong). Nor do I forsee a price drop when we get consistently twice as many players.

That is all I wanted to stay. I absolitely want to make it clear that I am absolutely not attacking you or the way you run your business (just in case I even remotely left that impression). 

I agree with you on the drop rates. 

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

 

So your argument is.... *clears throat* ... "You don't have enough info to KNOW that lowering their prices WOULDN'T help sales, but I, with the same conjecture and info, DO KNOW that it WOULD!"  ?  Hm?  That it?
 

You should learn how to read. 

Since you have obviously failed to do that or are unable to comprehend what is being said I think it is pointless to address your useless histrionics any further. 

Go back...read it again...try to understand...ask help from somebody with a higher IQ if needed and come back to write something that even remotely addresses what has been actually said. 

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

At the end of the day shareholders want profit. The game is entirely different. 

Making money is not necessarily greed. Making money is a necessity. But when you start talking about surplus values and profit margins you are going to get into greed territory very, very, very quickly. Everything beyond need is greed...an while "need" offers enough flexibility it has its boundaries.

And while I certainly I am not suggesting DE is greedy...what I am saying is that a 165% increase in gross profits is not immediately apparently reflected in the price settings either. (Correct me if I am wrong). Nor do I forsee a price drop when we get consistently twice as many players.

That is all I wanted to stay. I absolitely want to make it clear that I am absolutely not attacking you or the way you run your business (just in case I even remotely left that impression). 

I agree with you on the drop rates. 

No worries, you're not coming across as attacking me or my business, and I apologize if I got off on too much of a tangent there, as well.  It's just that this issue comes up alot with players not getting what they want right away (not necessarily talking about you, to clarify) and claiming "such and such company is evil" etc.

Greed certainly COULD be a part of SOME of DE's or the Shareholder's mentalities, but it isn't fair for us to judge them based on our assumptions, I guess is what I was getting at.

As for the prices not coming down even though playerbase has increased.... The demand has risen, so prices remain the same or go up.  Prices will always remain at what the market will bear.  Any more and they wouldn't sell.  So, a sensible observation (I feel) is that they must be selling what they need to sell.

DE has had a rough past, and Warframe was literally their last shot at avoiding closing their business.  Shareholders might have a different intent, but DE?  I've only ever seen a passionate company that really wants to create art and share it!

Honestly, in my business (I'm an entertainer) I always tell those who ask about my prices that hell, I'd do it for free....if I could afford to do so.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

You should learn how to read. 

Since you have obviously failed to do that or are unable to comprehend what is being said I think it is pointless to address your useless histrionics any further. 

Go back...read it again...try to understand...ask help from somebody with a higher IQ if needed and come back to write something that even remotely addresses what has been actually said. 

 

siiigh...  They said "DE would not stand to make more money by decreasing the price of Prime packs."   to which the reply was "They might, though! We don't know!"  

So, in that paraphrased but true conversation, basically all that was said was:

"Nope!"
"Yup!"
"Why?"
"Why not?"
"Because reasons!"
"I, too, have reasons, ...probably!"

The proof, I will say it again, of the actual answer lies in what DE is already doing -- their current setup is making them money to continue operations.  If that were not the case, I'm sure they'd change.  They know their own financial setup better than we do, for sure.

As far as greed goes......We cannot in one breath claim they are being greedy....but then in the next, accuse them of being dumb for not enacting a strategy that we claim would make them MORE money than they are already making.

Think about that.  I mean, might just be me and my "low IQ" but....makes sense to me.

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

siiigh...  They said "DE would not stand to make more money by decreasing the price of Prime packs."   to which the reply was "They might, though! We don't know!"  

So, in that paraphrased but true conversation, basically all that was said was:

"Nope!"
"Yup!"
"Why?"
"Why not?"
"Because reasons!"
"I, too, have reasons, ...probably!"

The proof, I will say it again, of the actual answer lies in what DE is already doing -- their current setup is making them money to continue operations.  If that were not the case, I'm sure they'd change.  They know their own financial setup better than we do, for sure.

As far as greed goes......We cannot in one breath claim they are being greedy....but then in the next, accuse them of being dumb for not enacting a strategy that we claim would make them MORE money than they are already making.

Think about that.  I mean, might just be me and my "low IQ" but....makes sense to me.

No. They both claimed their point was obvious. MY point was that that wasn't the case and the examples were self serving. My point also was that they BOTH had no reason or justification to talk with such certainty as they were doing. It is quite literally spelled out in the post you quoted and chose to ignore that part off. I quite literally said that we do not have enough information or are not aware of all the considerations at play. All we know is that DE set a price that works for them.  

And that pisses me off to no end. You attacked me on something that I literally said in the post as if I hadn't said it. 

Now you said you had an entertainment business...my business and job was analysing price trends and price optimizations for large corporations. And like I said...the motivating factors are NOT always numerical. Sometimes they have f* all to do with figures and graphs but have everything to do with a host of other factors. Making it even less "obvious" and even more likely that they are both wrong at the very same time.

Another point I made is that "It is just business" does NOT exclude greed. MUCH of business is decided by greed. It is NOT a valid argument to disprove whether there is greed or not. This does not mean that there is greed at play....it just means quite literally what it says..."it is business" doesn't inherently exclude greed. 

For example a company that expands its market share and profit and doesn't lower its prices is harder pressed to argue they are not motivated by want outranking need than a company that does. 

Again...I said this before...I am not saying DE is greedy...I am saying that the arguments both for and against suck.....and more over are absolutely useless. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by (PS4)BOSS_TPH76