[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD

[Kylo.]

1 hour ago, Weltraumfred said:

Hi

I am basically maining Saryn, and here is my review:



According to your profile your most played frame is Valkyr.

[p3z1]

Just now, kylooooren said:

One enemy is left alive, you have no idea where in god's name he is -> you can't cast spores again until he dies. That is the reason.

Suggestions:

• Stated multiple times. Just let spores be recastable. Or maybe when casting spores for a second time, it'll create a new set of spores, detonating the rest.

Exactly, pointless change made on saryn's spores. Why bother casting spores twice just for this one random mob?

[Kylo.]

Just now, p3z1 said:

. Or maybe when casting spores for a second time, it'll create a new set of spores, detonating the rest.

Exactly the same way it works now except you have to hit 1, one time instead of twice?

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

Sounds like they nailed it. I can’t wait to try her out 

[p3z1]

1 minute ago, kylooooren said:

Exactly the same way it works now except you have to hit 1, one time instead of twice?

You have to cast spores twice (assuming some random sucker has your spores 300m behind you).

Making the next spore cast detonate everything AND creating a new set of spores on an enemy is a QoL change, don't you agree?

[Kylo.]

19 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

• Regenerating Molt requires high strength to even be remotely useful, something that might rarely happen to the current Saryn builds.

Why would you not use Strength? 

20 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

• Revert the change. Make saryn able to cast spores on her molt

That's exactly what they don't want. 

 

22 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

• Cap energy gain to the energy cost of Toxic Lash. Make energy gain 2/popped spore. For example Toxic lash costs 50 energy. Saryn should pop (50 energy/2 energy per spore) = 25 spores to regain energy costs from toxic lash. Popping more than 25 spores doesn't give any more energy.
•  

In over 60 minutes of a survival I was never below 500 energy on my Saryn, not sure how you manage to run out of energy?

[Lag-666-]

I feel new Spores need more sounds and visual effects when they detonate.

*BOOM !!*

[p3z1]

Just now, kylooooren said:

1. Why would you not use Strength? 

2. That's exactly what they don't want. 

3. In over 60 minutes of a survival I was never below 500 energy on my Saryn, not sure how you manage to run out of energy?

1. Because I'd rather maximize spore spreading. Honestly the damage ramp up is pretty strong still with low power strength.

2. Well, cut that suggestion then. Now that I think about it it's kinda OP.

3. I don't use Zenurik. I don't use energy plates. I fight infested and their god-awful amounts of energy drain left and right. I also play solo, so trinity ain't a thing. Such suggestions won't really break saryn now would it?

[Kylo.]

2 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

1. Because I'd rather maximize spore spreading. Honestly the damage ramp up is pretty strong still with low power strength.

2. Well, cut that suggestion then. Now that I think about it it's kinda OP.

3. I don't use Zenurik. I don't use energy plates. I fight infested and their god-awful amounts of energy drain left and right. I also play solo, so trinity ain't a thing. Such suggestions won't really break saryn now would it?

1.  ?

2. Yes.

3. Well if you don't use Zenurik and you complain about energy problems then use Zenurik? 

Also, I don't use Zenurik for it's 5 Energy/s, all I got was it's passive and it worked fine. 

But if you don't want to use Zenurik then it seems like a personal problem to me.

[low1991]

Feed back.

• #1 ability - is decent and in good spot for me. Suggestion: The purple counter should remains for next cast use while decay x per second or converted into another feature (yellow counter) for #4 use, to boost it's damage (damage per tick).
  • Yellow counter, convert 1% of purple counter into yellow counter, not decay, use on #4 cast, in order to boost damage.
• #4 ability - is weak. Suggestion: can use #1' yellow counter. Increase damage per tick depending on yellow counter.

[p3z1]

23 minutes ago, kylooooren said:

1.  ?

2. Yes.

3. Well if you don't use Zenurik and you complain about energy problems then use Zenurik? 

Also, I don't use Zenurik for it's 5 Energy/s, all I got was it's passive and it worked fine. 

But if you don't want to use Zenurik then it seems like a personal problem to me.

Yeah, cut out the rest of the values. Tunnel vision on strength and range. You probably have low efficiency on that build, running blind rage.

So I'm forced to use zenurik? I didn't even say if I used the energy regen/orb passive or the operator dash energy bubble.

It's not a personal problem if a player's FORCED to use something to make another thing work.

Edited May 19, 2018 by p3z1

[Kylo.]

1 minute ago, p3z1 said:

Yeah, cut out the rest of the values. Tunnel vision on strength and range.

So I'm forced to use zenurik? I didn't even say if I used the energy regen/orb passive or the operator dash energy bubble.

It's not a personal problem if a player's FORCED to use something to make another thing work.

You don't need all that much duration and efficiency, well maybe you do, I don't.

You aren't forced to use Zenurik, just that the problem you are talking about seems to be an energy problem, and I don't have that problem, so to solve your problem, you can choose to either use zenurik, or you pop some energy consumables.

[p3z1]

1 minute ago, kylooooren said:

You don't need all that much duration and efficiency, well maybe you do, I don't.

You aren't forced to use Zenurik, just that the problem you are talking about seems to be an energy problem, and I don't have that problem, so to solve your problem, you can choose to either use zenurik, or you pop some energy consumables.

You don't, good for you. I maintain 100% efficiency, I run it that way. I don't have a trinity beside me.

You just said that I use zenurik to alleviate my energy problems, now you are saying I'm not forced? Much wow.

Energy plates. I could use them, if only I could use them in sanctuary onslaught...

In the end, you make it seem like I should be dependent on another player supplying me energy, or consumables, or zenurik.

[Kylo.]

2 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

You don't, good for you. I maintain 100% efficiency, I run it that way. I don't have a trinity beside me.

You just said that I use zenurik to alleviate my energy problems, now you are saying I'm not forced? Much wow.

Energy plates. I could use them, if only I could use them in sanctuary onslaught...

In the end, you make it seem like I should be dependent on another player supplying me energy, or consumables, or zenurik.

I run 75% Efficiency, you 100% and you run out of energy while I don't. That's impressive.

And no, I don't have a Trinity besides me.

[p3z1]

14 minutes ago, kylooooren said:

I run 75% Efficiency, you 100% and you run out of energy while I don't. That's impressive.

And no, I don't have a Trinity besides me.

Trinity was there as an example of "energy supply." Besides, you said it yourself, you run zenurik, of course you won't run out soon enough, you have 2 sources of energy gain.

[retrosolid]

As a Saryn Main (first ever prime frame, most played frame, Used in all content from farming to sorties, etc etc) and after non-stop Saryn play since the patch I have gone from hating the rework, to loving the rework, to being mixed about it.

Overall its great, having a Spore UI is really cool and I like knowing just how wide-spread the spore colony has gotten.  The movement boost on Molt is a nice touch (though I tend not to use it all that much with how used to just bullet jumping away after a cast I am),  and swapping viral for corrosive and putting viral on miasma is a great idea, giving groups an alternative to 4X Corrosive Projection being required.  The Sound design of her abilities is absolutely amazing and I am floored by the excellent work the audio team (and DE Danielle) put in to it.

However the main issue I have with the rework, and I feel unfortunately overshadows the rest of the kit because of how glaring a problem it is, is Detonation and Spore cultivation in general as a gameplay mechanic.

Detonation needs to go.  It has been nothing but a headache in a mostly great rework.

I Can't even count the number of times I have cast spores only to miss-click or lag and immediately detonate them from pressing the button too many times Or having the last infected mob die just as I'm about to detonate and re-apply on a new enemy so that I cast spore instead of a detonate, then just detonate again ending up with no spores (if that was confusing that's because it IS and its just as confusing in-game).  This is made even worse that corrupted fissure enemies are immune as they spawn so you spam the key on them as they change to get spores as soon as possible... just to have them instantly disappear from an accidental detonation, with nothing to show for it but lost energy and time.  There is also no visual feedback from detonation so you are required to look at the UI to even tell if it went off.  Not to mention the damage is so insanely low on detonation (the same or less than just waiting 2-3 seconds for spore damage to tick on its own) that you can't even tell if it went off by damage numbers or mass-kills either... it just sorta ends, and could not feel any less rewarding.

"Spore-gardener Saryn" is a neat idea on paper, but combined with Enemy Ai, spawn rates and locations, Team mates killing mobs, unpredictable weapon/spore interactions, ragdolled enemies traveling to different tile locations, etc... its just a massive pain to micro manage a group of spores...  Saryn should be all about spreading infection as fast and widely as possible.  It seems opposite of why many loved playing her to have her try and set up and protect a little spore cultivation in some corner of the map.  I don't want to play "Spore-gardener Saryn" I want to play "Oprah Saryn"  (YOU get a spore and YOU get a spore! Spores for all!!).

Even if casting spore detonated all existing spores and reset the damage counter (to prevent endless scaling and still promote spore cultivation in some form), it would at least FEEL like you were spreading spores like crazy and moving to new sections of a map or casting spore wouldn't be so downright painful to the game flow.

Other than these points... her damage might be a tad on the extreme side.  her procs and utility are so powerful I feel that her spore/miasma damage could be cut down by almost a third or more and she would still be amazing.

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by retrosolid

[Weltraumfred]

1 hour ago, kylooooren said:

According to your profile your most played frame is Valkyr.

Total time yes, recently no, I have played far more times as Saryn, so that I consider to be my main.

Your point?

Edited May 19, 2018 by Weltraumfred

[Karrin_Murphy]

In my humble (not really, I'm a genius!) opinion, this rework is really great! it only needs 2 changes to be perfekt:

1. Hitting the Spores-key again needs to detonate remaining spores AND reapply new spore as a SINGLE action. Even the slightest lag can lead to accidental detonations. alternatively the detonate needs a cooldawn after spores  have first been applied (1 sec would prob. be enough). but i like the first version better.

2. We need an indicator to easily identify infected enemies. It can be really annoying to look for that last infected grineer in a group of 10...

[retrosolid]

4 minutes ago, Karrin_Murphy said:

1. Hitting the Spores-key again needs to detonate remaining spores AND reapply new spore as a SINGLE action. Even the slightest lag can lead to accidental detonations. alternatively the detonate needs a cooldawn after spores  have first been applied (1 sec would prob. be enough). but i like the first version better.

Took me a massive wall of text to basically say the same thing, maybe you really ARE a genius!

 

To your other point, I feel like Spores used to be easier to see before rework, Ive noticed a lot of spores "hidden" inside the enemy models after the patch, with as little as just one spore poking out of en enemies foot as an indicator.

Edited May 19, 2018 by retrosolid

[ndagX]

The changes have been very very good so far but i would really like a quality of life change in UI that indicates who is infected on the minimap that would make spreading spores more easier in my opinion

 

[ZarakkiZenn]

3 hours ago, retrosolid said:

Saryn should be all about spreading infection as fast and widely as possible.  It seems opposite of why many loved playing her to have her try and set up and protect a little spore cultivation in some corner of the map.  I don't want to play "Spore-gardener Saryn" I want to play "Oprah Saryn"  (YOU get a spore and YOU get a spore! Spores for all!!).

Saryn's dull now. That's all I have to say. It was active and rewarding gameplay that drew people to Saryn. Now, you can pretty much hit spores once and forget about it. They'll kill, they'll do the work for you.. off in the distance, without you having to do anything; and if you do want to spread spores as much as possible, it's more of a pain than anything and something that detracts from core gameplay mechanics: "see an enemy, kill it".

She's good, don't get me wrong, and I suspect people who didn't like Saryn might come around to playing her because of how easy it is to get kills. But Saryn was an active frame at its core, focused around spreading spores. This rework pays no respect to that fact and hence, I fear, people who liked Saryn won't. Much like Ember, her usage statistics will go down, I suspect as much as 50% (outside of onslaught). That should be all the feedback that is required to make an informed decision.

Even though she was my favorite frame, I felt a rework would go a long way to making her better, but the rework I had in mind wouldn't go against her her core mechanics and style, it wouldn't contradict the essence of the frame -not thematically, mind you, but in terms of the user experience-. Make her 2 and 3 suck up all the spores in her vicinity and grant a buff of some kind, defense and offense; make her 4 infuse active spores with corrosive damage and procs to then spread say corrosive damage and procs. Voila, you're done.

Even Mesa is more engaging now (and that's saying a lot!), as at least you select an area of the map to then trash with peacemaker, which is quite satisfying.  Akin to how you'd select an enemy to spread spores from and cover and area, also quite satisfying, except now you don't. You hit spores once then sorta kinda babysit trying to find out where exactly they spread to so you can kill an enemy there and continue spreading them, only for them to eventually die from nothingness and start the process over again. It's easy to get kills, in that sense she's good, but awful in how she plays.

[Zanchak]

Awkward. Pretty much sums up how she feels to use currently. Kinda tired of things being changed and made awkward. (Yep, am lookin at you Ember)

You have to do more now to use her which isnt the issue, the issue is with how awkward it is to use. There is no flow to using her, shes clunky and irritating to use.

As for her spores.. "A" spore that you have to try spread before everythings wiped out by (insert whatever here, cause anything can beat the travel time of the spores) and thats if you don't accidently hit 1 and stuff the flow up, yet again. Shes pointless on the starmap, and not all of us are enthused and want to live in onslaught.

Overall disappointed. You tried to kill how people were using her (efficiently), when you saw she was efficient in a mode that requires it, and those people are already doing the same old thing just with different mods. Its the non-spam players that lose, every time. Awkward. What's next? Equinox? Cause shes efficient too, better kill her.

[Guest]

A hotfix earlier this week noted that saryn's ability 1 wouldn't start being recastable.

I unfoirtunately have to let you know, that this is still the case.

Did a sanctuary onslaught,
and during the 4th wave, my spores ended.
The abiliy icon kept glowing as if it was affecting targets.

Pressing the ability button did nothing.
There was no ending a'ghost'-version of her spores,
and there was no way to cast it on new targets.

Only had my 3 other abilites left to depend upon for survival.

[ARKANOiiDe]

Great change, you didnt want a molt spamming spores, energy hungry Saryn nuker, now all i see on Hydron is Saryns who just 1 time cast Spores, pop the spore, and hide in a corner AFK when the enemies melt in seconds. GG.

[DelialFallen]

Even though I find the new mechanics for Spore uncouth and unwieldy, I’m nevertheless liking the change to her kit over all.

Maybe if there was a minimap visual key to show just where the Spores are currently affecting targets it might feel a bit less like “shooting blind” so to speak.

Also, I think the HUD indicator should remain even if no Spores are being spread.  I’m not sure what I’m hoping that’ll accomplish though.  Just that it feels a bit “off” I guess to see it appear and then disappear.