Melee hit detection turned out exactly as bad as I thought it would be

[Fallen_Echo]

11 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

Yeah, no, it just needs some fine tuning.

What fine tuning? Its the geometry of the maps what cause the problems.

The original intent on giving melee weapons object penetration was to fix the geometry problems as i hear of, never since that DE took the effor to fix it as its a fish bigger than making openworld maps.

[Ext3h]

Had the "fun" chance of fighting a couple of nullifiers yesterday. You know, these funny little "bubble" guys, which invite every other enemy to stay with them inside their cozy bubble.

Fighting them has become just plain awful now. Everyone hiding in them bubble with them is blocking hits, since they stand so close that their hitboxes touch.
So even if you one-hit enemies, you still need 3-4 full swings in order to take down that cluster of enemies. Meanwhile they get to do target practice at point blank. The mine layer drones appear to make it even worse, as their mine fields are also blocking hits against enemy units standing amidst.

This isn't even level geometry killing the fun (or the player), heavy melee just stopped working against clusters of enemies entirely.

You get used to the level geomtry part, just performing spin-2-win mid-air (with the added headshot multiplier and - surprise - macro usage since the timing is too difficult to get right manually) already works around most of the obstacles. Both obstacles which are part of terrain, as well as corpses, since they nicely drop out of the headshot zone.

[Syasob]

One of the most important things for a player is clarity of results of his/her actions, for example we used to know that wide swing was going to hit every enemy in range, but now we see a group of 10 enemies standing together but every swing hits only few of them randomly. And that's what makes current LoS change bad: we can't even hope to predict our actions' consequences.

IMHO objects better be separated in two groups: impenetratable (like walls) and everything else that include consoles, bodies, other enemies/players, breakable crates, doors etc.

Punchthrough never enables a weapon to strike through wall-like objects (we can live without random wall-shooting hitting enemies on the other side) and can only be used to shoot/strike through other objects. Then with unlimited innate punchthrough melee will hit everything around you just fine but you won't be able to clear the next room before entering.

[Hyohakusha]

On 2018-05-18 at 1:44 AM, SortaRandom said:

It's the Viver fiasco all over again. They nerfed the wrong damn thing.

Actually, they did exactly what they wanted to. All of the people complaining about Maiming Strike gave them something to hide behind while they nerfed melee wholesale. They've been steadily chipping away at our ability to do extended runs. The sick part is that Scoliac Range Rivens are responsible for the whole "I have no enemies to kill" thing, and these changes were clearly designed to attempt to maintain their value of 4-6k plat.

It would've been so simple.
- Scoliac Disposition adjusted to one
- LoS applied to melee
- Maiming Strike has been removed from the game, if you had multiple copies, you get credited 500p, non tradeable

But that's not what they were trying to do. DE needs to understand that three basic gameplay mechanics are responsible for their player retention. The way movement feels, the way aiming/ firing feels, and the way melee felt. Breaking or nerfing small parts of the game is one thing, trying to gut an entire base system of the game and lying about why you're doing it should be called for what it is, especially when the excuse, the "broken" mod that isn't even responsible for what people are actually complaining about, isn't even addressed in the "fix".

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Look people keep saying "the majority are fine with this"... It really doesn't seem to be true, or at the very least enough people are very upset with this that it could cause a significant loss of players or revenue in the short term as well as the long term.. They need to increase the base damage of "short range" melees by either increasing base damage, crit chance, crit multiplier, or status chance (so that you can use 90% or primed mods instead of needing 60 60 mods to boost status chance) or increasing base attack speed, base channeling damage, what ever, which puts them in line for dealing lots of damage to a small number of targets instead of area damage to multiple targets. This gets people back using short range weapons because they can go target to target faster instead of having to rely on wide coverage. The nerf needs to go, buff less used weapons, don't break weapons that are being used because they just happen to be the only ones that blasted work...

No nerfs. They never fix the real problems, they only diminish gameplay quality.

[Darkuhn]

Am ‎18‎.‎05‎.‎2018 um 05:44 schrieb seprent:

personally i haven't noticed objects getting in my way i can just slash though enemies like i normally do might be my play style

same here.

[Fallen_Echo]

On 2018-05-22 at 10:18 PM, (PS4)Echo_X said:

Look people keep saying "the majority are fine with this"... It really doesn't seem to be true, or at the very least enough people are very upset with this that it could cause a significant loss of players or revenue in the short term as well as the long term.. They need to increase the base damage of "short range" melees by either increasing base damage, crit chance, crit multiplier, or status chance (so that you can use 90% or primed mods instead of needing 60 60 mods to boost status chance) or increasing base attack speed, base channeling damage, what ever, which puts them in line for dealing lots of damage to a small number of targets instead of area damage to multiple targets. This gets people back using short range weapons because they can go target to target faster instead of having to rely on wide coverage. The nerf needs to go, buff less used weapons, don't break weapons that are being used because they just happen to be the only ones that blasted work...

No nerfs. They never fix the real problems, they only diminish gameplay quality.

I have a strong feeling that the players who say "its fine" are playing the same way as me.

Never really switching to melee weapons, only using quick melee when the enemy is almost touching you and mosty gun down opponents. With these features its hard to notice problems but when my zenistar disk gets blocked by a knee high fence i start to rage.

More and more stuff is pushed down into uselessness and i dont like it.

[rune_me]

I haven't noticed any change whatsoever. This whole "can't hit through objects" has had zero effect on my play style.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

8 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I have a strong feeling that the players who say "its fine" are playing the same way as me.

Never really switching to melee weapons, only using quick melee when the enemy is almost touching you and mosty gun down opponents. With these features its hard to notice problems but when my zenistar disk gets blocked by a knee high fence i start to rage.

More and more stuff is pushed down into uselessness and i dont like it.

In actuality, I firmly suspect that's the point. Ranged weapons like the gal prime, atterax, pole arms to a lesser extent, are now the only weapon people use. So rather than buff the short range weapons like gloves, claws, daggers, to do more damage towards that one target that is all you can engage at that range... They are breaking all the ranged weapons to make sure nobody uses them anymore, so that people will use the closer ranged weapon because they are actually more consistent. 

They are literally destroying the effectiveness of dozens of weapons just to avoid having to buff the weapons that are under-performing. This isn't about balance it's about pure, staggering, bungie levels of laziness. The "Spin to win" and corner camping has nothing to do with it, it's just too much work to rebalance EVERYTHING that's a close range weapon..... Oh also weapons like kogake? They just made sure that these things will never be used again by not allowing you to punch through enemies, cause you'll get swarmed and youll get dead. Every time. This was NOT thought out. 

[LSG501]

On 2018-06-01 at 1:39 PM, rune_me said:

I haven't noticed any change whatsoever. This whole "can't hit through objects" has had zero effect on my play style.

I have, it's nothing 'major' but it's enough to notice it.  Some things on maps have weird hit boxes which are larger than the actual item, some things still block you even if you can swing over/through them for example.  It's more noticeable on some maps than it is on others so it might be down to what maps you've been playing as to how much you notice the change. 

Haven't done this map type in a while surprisingly but I couldn't hit between the support columns on the ramps/steps on grineer/corpus ships, thats a big huge open space on the grineer tileset.  The open metal pipe 'fence' on grineer tilesets can block attacks (which is funny considering we'd likely just cut through it) and the death orbs in the void need you to step back for the hit to register, if you're on top of it they act like solid bodies and you do no damage....

 

I've also noticed the warframe getting 'snagged' more since the changes and others in my clan confirmed they've noticed it too when I was 'checking my sanity' lol

 

I do however still feel that the rework was/is excessive and they need to add a small amount of punch through, not just for QOL, but for that 1 enemy you know you will come across that gets stuck inside something (luckily I haven't had that for a while) and you can't get to it any other way.

I will say that now bodies don't act as solid bodies it does make it better than the original rework.

I also feel that they need to fix the zenistar so it doesn't get blocked by something that would not block it, stopping it from going through walls is fine, just let it go through all the other stuff on the maps.

 

Oh and for comedy value... I've seen more 'spin to win' since the nerf than I did before the nerf, so it's worked incredibly well at 'reducing spin to win'....

Edited June 2, 2018 by LSG501