Wanna talk about Trinity + Castanas?

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, Datam4ss said:

Not everyone is a fan of Meta Shift balancing, just saying.

Sure, I only speak for myself and no one else.

[seprent]

16 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Nuke trin was around for 3 years. She was never "corrected", to use DE's term for it.

Now, for something that goes "unfixed" like that for 3 years you'd expect it to be a legit feature in the game.

So people blow plat on Castanas Rivens. Many people who otherwise would NEVER touch Castanas outside of MR increases.

Then DE turns around and says "oh, now your link build is useless! Thank you for buying plat"

People who actually bought the Castanas Rivens now angry they wasted plat on something they will never use.

You can still like throw it at people and use it like a well trap or just throw it and blow it up like a grenade not to be rude it just sounds like people are just angry that can cheese as hard anymore

like you can still throw them on people and then detonate them when ever hell i made a fun time of playing ivara and driving the talons around like a star wars droid fighter that i could blow up at any time because it amused me so you can't blow your self up and kill stuff well use it as a weapon and kill stuff with it 

16 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Chroma has the same thing as Trin.

The math was not fixed for ages.

People spent lots of plat on Arcanes, Mods, whatever. Even optimum rivens for the guns.

Math gets corrected.

Now the "optimum rivens" are no longer "optimum rivens" and the Chroma Polarities all have to change. All the forma down the drain.

People get angry

chroma is still heavily used in killing terry garry and harry and ive seen them one/two shot limbs so it seems that hasn't slowed them down and i thought the optimum rivens were opticor and lanka and those rivens could make anything just stop existing with the effects they paid for when its pointed at like anything so any real change for them is minor at best like my buddy uses him and all he had to change was alittle more duration and he still gets his results he wanted to and i quote " Make terry scared of existing" 

personally on me i never sunk into a meta unless you count a meta of does this look fun? yes Can i make it kill stuff with a basic set up? yes ok lets go i never shoot for the min max capacity thing just a rough shape of what i want and then work with what i got maybe all this is just over my head sounds like something my gf would do but have a back up if things went south sharpish 

and on a side note trinities i've seen that i can have a chat with running hydron or what ever they dont seem to bothered/got over it by the change one was glad it gave them a excuse to use the castanas and found them fun so it kinda still sits in my mind that the forums is sometimes the polar opposite of people in game also Thanks for trying to give some context to it but it still seems people are just making a bigger deal out of this then it actually is 

Edited June 6, 2018 by seprent
spelling mistakes

[Klokwerkaos]

25 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Of course it is okay. The fact that the warframes I have invested in, formaed and played inside out suddenly gets ruined, is exactly what keeps me playing and what keeps me interested in the game. It's the only reason I am still playing warframe at all, because it's the only time I feel there is a real challenge in the game: when my build suddenly doesn't work anymore and I have to try something new that I have never tried before.

This behavior is not just okay. It should be heavily encouraged.

 

24 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Not everyone is a fan of Meta Shift balancing, just saying.

To address both of these, I'd say I'm more towards the middle here.

I recognize the trinity build was problematic.  I recognize it needed re-balancing.  I offered multiple solutions that where ignored entirely.

The problem I have is when a feature gets completely removed with a banhammer without any consolation that takes a heavy investment, rather than making it "reasonably viable".

The changes I proposed would have done this, and frankly DE didn't give a crap, and they will very likely continue to not give a crap. (mind you I'm not above apologizing if it turns out I'm thoroughly wrong and this changes in a hotfix tomorrow, but i'm thinking this is not likely the case and I'm pretty confident in that since I'm fairly comfortable in my pessimism here)

There is something to be said for changing the game to adjust metas.  That's not the argument I'm making though, I'm not saying don't make changes, nor am I saying metas should be preserved.  I'm talking more about making sensible changes that don't invalidate a hard won month of farming, trading and earning that wouldn't be possible in 10x the amount of time for some one half the MR.

That's overkill, over correction and frankly, despicable and really shows a lack of concern for people that bother to invest and sends a very clear message:  DE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT VETERANS AT ALL, DON'T INVEST, GIVE US YOUR MONEY AND GET OUT.

My point is, the problem needed to apply a scalpel, not a hammer, and the fact that they did apply a hammer is frankly thoughtless and crappy behavior I had up until now thought they were better than, it's the type of thing I expect from EA, not DE.

THEY SHOULD BE BETTER THAN EA is not something I figured I would say any time soon as of yesterday, and that's the problem.  My trust in the devs is broken, and my ability to invest in anything above casual is completely impossible at this time, as is the future of my ability to open my wallet just because I think they deserve the support, because THEY DON'T.  Not with that kind of behavior anyway.

With Saryn I was happy because her job wasn't removed and they corrected the issue they had with her.  With Banshee and Ember I was understanding yet underwhelmed at the results as their jobs were removed, but at the cost of something being pretty busted, a better route would have been to find a way for them to keep their jobs without encouraging the old play style (like they did with Saryn).  With this Trinity nerf I'm happy to throw all my salt their way because they simply invalidated everything on that build and said "Too bad, screw you.  We don't care about you, your time, or your money, and we certainly don't respect you".

That kind of message is not one I expected to hear, but also one I will be sure to share, repeatedly, albeit with a short grace period to see if they correct course, though my expectations are very limited here.

The build I think, should be viable, just not broken, and I think that's reasonable and fair.  Making it impossible is simply sadistic and crappy.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, seprent said:

You can still like throw it at people and use it like a well trap or just throw it and blow it up like a grenade not to be rude it just sounds like people are just angry that can cheese as hard anymore

Please read what I wrote:

25 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

So people blow plat on Castanas Rivens. Many people who otherwise would NEVER touch Castanas outside of MR increases.

These people (me included) wouldn't ever touch a Castanas outside of blasting a Trinity or for MR (as earlier said). Some of them (not me) have bought a riven. We don't want to throw it at people or use it as a trap. Basically people who do not like Castanas at all.

They have the right to be unhappy.

13 minutes ago, seprent said:

chroma is still heavily used in killing terry garry and harry and ive seen them one/two shot limbs so it seems that hasn't slowed them down and i thought the optimum rivens were opticor and lanka and those rivens could make anything just stop existing with the effects they paid for when its pointed at like anything so any real change for them is minor at best like my buddy uses him and all he had to change was alittle more duration and he still gets his results he wanted to and i quote " Make terry scared of existing" 

Chroma is still good for it. He is just less tanky and not as powerful. That's all. I never play Chroma for Eidolon so I personally have no investment in this. But you ask why people got salty, so I explained.

Optimum Rivens DID change. For Chroma, now you have to avoid + base damage rivens like the plague when those used to be worth a lot.

15 minutes ago, seprent said:

and on a side note trinities i've seen that i can have a chat with running hydron or what ever they dont seem to bothered/got over it by the change one was glad it gave them a excuse to use the castanas and found them fun so it kinda still sits in my mind that the forums is sometimes the polar opposite of people in game also Thanks for trying to give some context to it but it still seems people are just making a bigger deal out of this then it actually is 

Again, not a very big sample size. There are loads of people who are ok with it, and loads who are super salty. All of them are not vocal about it, that's all.

Basically, no one actually knows how much salt there is. Unless you care to survey like all Trinity Players.

[Klokwerkaos]

55 minutes ago, seprent said:

ok ok ok real talk like realest of talks 

does anyone else feel that we are kinda over reacting or is that just me? like im all for filling out a bingo cards but i feel like i gotta say something to this level absurdness

all they did was turn off self damage going though link abilities if some guy shoots you the ability does it job like are people just really pissed they invested into this nuke trin stuff or was this like a die hard thing people coveted for years that only recently came to light? did i miss a memo somewhere?

cuz it feels like you all are making mountains out of ant hills to me it was just a thing de didn't intend for trinity to do and they just switched it off so whats the big deal seriously someone enlighten me here or this like the whole choma thing where people are just mad the math got corrected and want it broken again like i need some legit context here

Go invest 15k plat in a build (and all the time it took for you to earn that plat, either through play time or paying), then watch it become removed from the game entirely without any consolation.  Then tell me it's not a big deal and complaining isn't warranted.

Or conversely, pay me 15k plat for an ammo drum and I'll acknowledge your response as valid as a result of payment, though not logic.

From there on out I'll respond with "I've been paid 15k plat to say this is not a big deal, and people shouldn't be upset by it."

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[seprent]

Just now, Datam4ss said:

Please read what I wrote:

1:These people (me included) wouldn't ever touch a Castanas outside of blasting a Trinity or for MR (as earlier said). Some of them (not me) have bought a riven. We don't want to throw it at people or use it as a trap. Basically people who do not like Castanas at all.

They have the right to be unhappy.

2: Chroma is still good for it. He is just less tanky and not as powerful. That's all. I never play Chroma for Eidolon so I personally have no investment in this. But you ask why people got salty, so I explained.

3:Optimum Rivens DID change. For Chroma, now you have to avoid + base damage rivens like the plague when those used to be worth a lot.

Again, not a very big sample size. There are loads of people who are ok with it, and loads who are super salty. All of them are not vocal about it, that's all.

Basically, no one actually knows how much salt there is. Unless you care to survey like all Trinity Players.

1: i did reread what you said before i posted well for the people who just got the castatnas for the build with no riven guess you can just sell it and be done with it as for the people who bought rivens eeeeh i have no real sympathy for them since i kinda made a note to my self to never get those god teir rivens via buying them or to really use rivens in general except for the one i just stumble across in my play time for what ever reason yeah they got the right to be unhappy about it it just seems alittle absurd sometimes since you made that choice to spend that much on it

2: i personally forget sometimes i have chroma and like i said i thank you for trying to explain it to me and i know my sample size isnt that large but that would be a intresting thing survey everyone to measure salt i would like to see that in like a pie chart or something

3: i know jack about rivens besides some people buy and sell them for 300 or more dollars maybe im just more grounded in reality or something but if you swing that kind of cash around for a gimmick you may want to have thought up a back up plan for it or be really sure your gunna be ok with it 

again thank you for explaining it to me or trying to have a moa 

 

[NezuHimeSama]

Investing time or money into a build is a voluntary action you take with no guarantee of that build's continued viability.

Also why the #*!% did you pay 15k plat for link trin?

[Bouldershoulder]

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Or $0, you know, because you can earn plenty of plat every day in game.

Traded platinum is still someone else' real money. Spending such huge amounts of currency on any single in-game item serves the purpose of devaluing currency and inflating prices unreasonably.

[seprent]

13 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Go invest 15k plat in a build (and all the time it took for you to earn that plat, either through play time or paying), then watch it become removed from the game entirely without any consolation.  Then tell me it's not a big deal and complaining isn't warranted.

Or conversely, pay me 15k plat for an ammo drum and I'll acknowledge your response as valid as a result of payment, though not logic.

From there on out I'll respond with "I've been paid 15k plat to say this is not a big deal, and people shouldn't be upset by it."

ok 2 things 

1: Why would i invest 15K plat roughly 9 thousand USD in a video game for a one purpose gimmick build that could be changed at the drop of a hat due to a unintended feature with a support frame

2: what kind of argument is this is like the prime definition of a hyperbole i cannot take you seriously with this Sh!t i understand people are damn angry but i as a person dont understand it since it doesn't seem that major to me and asked for some context

@Letter13 i think this thread has gotten way out of hand form the original topic 

Edited June 6, 2018 by seprent
spelling mistakes

[seprent]

9 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Investing time or money into a build is a voluntary action you take with no guarantee of that build's continued viability.

Also why the #*!% did you pay 15k plat for link trin?

i think we are witnessing the sanity of a someone just fully snap 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Investing time or money into a build is a voluntary action you take with no guarantee of that build's continued viability.

Also why the #*!% did you pay 15k plat for link trin?

Some people are baller...

[Klokwerkaos]

16 minutes ago, Bouldershoulder said:

Traded platinum is still someone else' real money. Spending such huge amounts of currency on any single in-game item serves the purpose of devaluing currency and inflating prices unreasonably.

I'm not sure you understand how the market works.

If we weren't supposed to spend plat on rivens they shouldn't be tradeable.

Additionally, because of my MR, it's easier to trade to earn plat and buy someone else's riven, than it is to roll one.

This is the result of their game design on rivens, with so much gambling involved it becomes more practical for high level players to buy them, and that's actually FOR their benefit.

First, it keeps plat moving in the economy, which is good, because the more it moves the greater chance it has to be removed.  Additionally, you're saying that once you reach a certain point in the game (MR 25) you might as well quit because there is no more game for you.  Otherwise the only thing left to do is experiment and invest to find new ways of playing, and when you are that MR, 15k plat takes about the same time it takes to make 300p at MR 10, about less than three weeks a couple of hours a day.

What do you suppose end game players should do instead?  Sit?

[seprent]

14 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Some people are baller...

Gotta admit baller or not that just raises the question of why like i got a gif for the level of why im experiencing right now 

found it

Edited June 6, 2018 by seprent
had to fix the gif probably still broke cant be asked any more

[Klokwerkaos]

19 minutes ago, seprent said:

1: Why would i invest 15K plat roughly 9 thousand USD in a video game for a one purpose gimmick build that could be changed at the drop of a hat due to a unintended feature with a support frame

2: what kind of argument is this is like the prime definition of a hyperbole i cannot take you seriously with this Sh!t i understand people are damn angry but i as a person dont understand it since it doesn't seem that major to me and asked for some context

1) I didn't pay for it I earned it in game.  I can trade each day for about 300-800 p a day profit sometimes 1000p, not counting rivens in a couple of hours a day.

What should end game players do?  Quit?  We make plat and spend it on expensive items we don't feel like farming.  This is overall good for the economy because the more plat moves in the economy the greater chance it has to be removed from the game via the store, thereby increasing the demand for plat.  It's basic economics.  Datamass is also correct, some people are baller.  When you are MR 25 there isn't much else to do as a reason to continue playing other than to just see how baller you can be.  Further, this is the very essence of the power fantasy DE is reportedly selling as stated by officials as recently as in the last dev stream.

2) again, drop your 15k plat and have it become worth 0p and we'll talk.

I want to be clear, I'm not mad there was a nerf.  I recognize the need for one, but to completely invalidate it is crap.  The problem needed a scalpel and they applied a hammer and for that they can rightly receive and deserve all of the salt.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[seprent]

16 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

1) I didn't pay for it I earned it in game.  I can trade each day for about 300-800 p a day profit sometimes 1000p, not counting rivens in a couple of hours a day.

What should end game players do?  Quit?  We make plat and spend it on expensive items we don't feel like farming.  This is overall good for the economy because the more plat moves in the economy the greater chance it has to be removed from the game via the store, thereby increasing the demand for plat.  It's basic economics.  Datamass is also correct, some people are baller.  When you are MR 25 there isn't much else to do as a reason to continue playing other than to just see how baller you can be.

2) again, drop your 15k plat and have it become worth 0p and we'll talk.

I want to be clear, I'm not mad there was a nerf.  I recognize the need for one, but to completely invalidate it is crap.  The problem needed a scalpel and they applied a hammer and for that they can rightly receive and deserve all of the salt.

1: your goals not mine could care less what you do with your time 

2: buddy the most i had in my hands at ones was what ever the combined cost of two harrow bundles were if i had 15k plat like you did i wouldn't sink in to things like builds for gimmicks i would slowly over time buy stuff i wanted or needed slots cosmetics potatos a frame here and there i play most the game grind because its funner that way to me your cash your concerns

3: So your not mad that they nerfed trinity your just mad they invalidated your build with trinity... What so lemme get this straight your not mad they completely just removed the ability for self damage to benefit you like most other warframe abilities that use damage as a resource or for its effect but your mad because it invalidated your build am i getting this right?

if you wanted a hammer here ill use a hammer: link now uses line of sight and only effects enemies that are closest to you in a 8m range not effected by mods. What we got is about as quick and clean a nerf has been in awhile then again i would be pissed too if i for some insane reason i sunk 15k plat into a gimmick build there is a George Carlin joke i would have for you but i cant remember it as of right now and i would doubt the forums would be ok with it if i did 

Edited June 6, 2018 by seprent
corrected words

[JK21Games]

Semi-Rant ahead, beware lords and ladies of the dominion of casual spam.

Guys, you were using a unintended exploit. While said unintended exploit went under the radar, it was ignored. When people brought it into focus with the Sancti Castanas Build, its popularity soared and more people started using it. Besides, do you really think any frame deserves crazy high damage reduction, the ability to instantly heal themselves and restore shields, the ability to restore energy extremely easily, the ability to completely ignore status effects, and super easy/high DPS? Seriously, Trinity would already have an extremely overloaded kit were it not compensated for by her low CC and basically nonexistant damage abilities. Its still overloaded in a lot of ways (in that DE didn't really future proof for other supports existing when they made her kit), its just compensated enough by the lack of certain things to where its relatively balanced.

When you break it down, you were using an autolock on ability that transferred damage while doing almost nothing involving actual gamesense, including using explosive weaponry exactly how you aren't supposed to use explosives in this game. You have no right to call others casual since casuals try to make everything as lazy and automated as possible to minimize how much effort goes into the game, that's what a casual is, and that's what this exploit amounted to. No skill in targeting or doing the actual proper detonations the way that the Sancti Castanas are supposed to be used, just using a ability that autolinks to enemies you probably haven't even seen, jumping, self damaging yourself and boom, enemies in an aoe are dead with no further effort put into it. So you just sit in a corner somewhere doing this until the map is dead. And yes, it doesn't actually matter what MR level you are or how much time you put into the game, if your playstyle revolves around cheap exploits, braindead spam attacks, and the like, you are a casual. A lot of veterans are lazy casuals with their playstyles, its a fact. I don't blame people for this since Warframe has a lot of grind, but lets not sit there and act like a lot of the rhythms veterans get into aren't casual tactics. Warframe does to some extent cater to casual players to be sure, however its trying to get away from the more exploitative casual attacks because a lot of that makes the game strictly more boring. And yes, it is boring for me if someone just nukes everything on the map by jumping up and down, just like it was boring when Banshee just nuked the whole map or Ember burned everything down. I'd also very much expect a lot of other spam in the game like Maim for example to be nerfed in the future.

As far as rivens go, its ultimately your own fault that people like you drive riven prices up absurdly high. The Sancti Castanas are a good, fun sidearm, but in no way are they something that will ever be meta since they just have too many overall drawbacks compared to other options. They are a flavor pick, not a hyper meta pick, and they have enough force to work when you want to mess around with them. You already know that about how they function without this exploit, but everyone just buys rivens because they are the flavor of the day. So now you have your riven, you can still use it with the castanas as they were meant to be used, but since that involves actually working out things like trapping areas enemies walk through, hitting enemies in groups for the best effect, using proper detonation time, etc, exploiters won't like them. If you actually like the way the Sancti Castanas are supposed to work as I do, you wouldn't be acting like your Rivens are now entirely gone to waste.

This is exactly like what happened when Banshee got her 4th ability changed. Banshee mains in regular play didn't even use that ability since Banshee has a way way way better ability in her kit (yeah the weakspot generator), but all the casuals who only used her for Hydron spam complained that she was suddenly dead. Same thing here. Trinity/Support Mains already know that Trinity provides a ton to a team, but all the players who only use her for this exploit will now complain that Trinity is dead.

Edited June 6, 2018 by JK21Games

[Klokwerkaos]

11 minutes ago, seprent said:

1: your goals not mine could care less what you do with your time 

2: buddy the most i had in my hands at ones was what ever the combined cost of two harrow bundles were if i had 15k plat like you did i wouldn't sink in to things like builds for gimmicks i would slowly over time buy stuff i wanted or needed slots cosmetics potatos a frame here and there i play most the game grind because its funner that way to me your cash your concerns

3: So your not mad that they nerfed trinity your just mad they invalidated your build with trinity... What so lemme get this straight your not mad they completely just removed the ability for self damage to benefit you like most other warframe abilities that use damage as a resource or for its effect but your mad because it invalidated your build am i getting this right?

if you wanted a hammer here ill use a hammer: link now uses line of sight and only effects enemies that are closest to you in a 8m range not effected by mods. What we got is about as quick and clean a nerf has been in awhile then again i would be pissed too if i for some insane reason i sunk 15k plat into a gimmick build there is a George Carlin joke i would have for you but i cant remember it as of right now and i would doubt the forums would be ok with it if i did 

1) and apparently DE feels the same, which is why they can rightly deserve all of my salt.

2) and I already have that, all of it.  Every weapon, frame, all the cosmetics I don't think look hideous... I don't need what you need, you are, by your own admission, admitting you are out of your depth when speaking on this issue because you can't possibly relate, where as I have already done all the things you mentioned and much more.  I'll take this as you admitting you have no idea what you're talking about and suggest you go get a cookie and watch TV.  Why continue to play if any form of experimentation is nuked into the ground, not just adjusted?  It's irresponsible, it's BS and no, I don't need any more weapon slots...

3) no, you're taking my words out of context, disingenously to serve your narrative, and that's weak bro.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[seprent]

2 minutes ago, JK21Games said:

-snip-

i've been here for a long time since before sayrn got her first rework i remember back when the starchart was our ship and nothing else 

i've seen this cycle over and over and over again to the point i have normalized it in my mind and started playing bingo with it 

YOU GOOD SIR if there was a nail you would have just struck it on the head and then the next several nails over as if by magic 

pretty much summed up every thought in my head much much more clear then i could have said 

[Klokwerkaos]

10 hours ago, Wolfdoggie said:

I just realized they nerfed Trinity so hard that she's free now. (twitch) hue

I lol'd.

This is the only thing that made me happy ITT.

[seprent]

5 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

1) and apparently DE feels the same, which is why they can rightly deserve all of my salt.

2) and I already have that, all of it.  Every weapon, frame, all the cosmetics I don't think look hideous... I don't need what you need, you are, by your own admission, admitting you are out of your depth when speaking on this issue because you can't possibly relate, where as I have already done all the things you mentioned and much more.  I'll take this as you admitting you have no idea what you're talking about and suggest you go get a cookie and watch TV.

3) no, you're taking my words out of context, disingenously to serve your narrative, and that's weak bro.

1: good for you i still dont care im not you

2: if i had everything i would do what i do already play the game i just don't think i need everything i get what i want and be fine with that jsut telling you what i would do with if for some reason had 15k plat the rest of your comment see one

3: well your not explaining it Your not mad at the nerf but their mad they invalidated your build and im taking your words into the context of the subject of trinity and if i have a weak argument you gave me the hyperbole argument of give me 15K plat for a worthless item and ill shut up and say it isn't a problem didnt really give me much to work with

[seprent]

Thanks for the entertainment in dumb arguments BTW i remembered the joke Google George Carlin on stupid people im going to bed ill harvest more salt tomorrow

have a good one folks and just wait for people to figure out things are not going to be the end of the world again for the what ever time ive lost track of over reaction over reworks and nerfs

Trinity still has bless and EV and what ever builds she has yes she is clunky at times but this self damage nonsense had to stop since it wasn't intended for her in the end that was fact and DE shut it down she is still a amazing support frame and people will either leave over this like every other rework/nerf or keep playing because of what ever reason I'll keep having fun with harrow and shot guns or what ever i fancy using at the time for flavor 

Have a nice night/day tenno 

[Klokwerkaos]

13 minutes ago, seprent said:

1: good for you i still dont care im not you

2: if i had everything i would do what i do already play the game i just don't think i need everything i get what i want and be fine with that jsut telling you what i would do with if for some reason had 15k plat the rest of your comment see one

3: well your not explaining it Your not mad at the nerf but their mad they invalidated your build and im taking your words into the context of the subject of trinity and if i have a weak argument you gave me the hyperbole argument of give me 15K plat for a worthless item and ill shut up and say it isn't a problem didnt really give me much to work with

I have explained it, repeatedly, in this thread and others, you're just too lazy to read, and frankly I'm not your mom.

But why not indulge since you're too lazy to not make assertions about others without doing proper research, I guess I'll do it for you.

I am upset about the message this sends.

That at any moment any player that invests substantially in a build, that experiments, and that finds a reason to keep playing past the point where they have achieved all the in game non random loot will be not only disincentivised but punished directly and harshly.

The answer here is to bring the thing more into alignment with game play.  Maybe make that riven worth 5k instead of 15k because it's not quite so OP anymore, rather than worth functionally 0p.  To find a reason to want to try new mechanics, to have reasons to continue to aspire to greater things.

If you want to run the same spy mission for the 10000th time on earth, good on you, but that's your prerogitive and I'm not knocking it.  It's my prerogative to want to trade and invest in potentially interesting builds.  While there is always risk, there is a difference between reasonable and unreasonable and smashing the whole thing with a hammer is unreasonable, full stop.

I spelled out several solutions that were all subsequently ignored.

You can disagree, but I am just going to say "No thank you, please shove your opinion in the appropriate space"

Edited June 6, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[sixmille]

Il y a 6 heures, Datam4ss a dit :

Not every player is as "far sighted" as you are, you know? Impulse buying is pretty common nowadays, given younger gamers with access to their ever richer parent's pockets. Kids don't think. They want instant gratification, and DE can give it you ... then take it away.

Look I am as pissed as you are about the Trinity changes as I used her to farm my Madurai focus and she has my Madurai Eidolon lens in it, but I wasn't silly/shortsighted enough to blow plat on a Castanas Riven. Considering that DE has always listened to the Nerf Warriors over the Salty Vets or players with a modicum of common sense, I knew the day would come.

"Common sense" is neither "common" nor "sense". It's just a matter of preference. You like it, I don't, DE makes the final decision, it's that simple. You're bitter but it doesn't mean you're allowed to mock those who disagree with you either. I probably have more hours than most people in this thread, so i'm technically a "vet" and greatly enjoy when the game surprises me and kicks my butt in new ways instead of letting me roll my face on the keyboard until the map is clear. Not everyone is like you. You don't enjoy the core gameplay to the point you'd rather play AFK builds, fine, but please consider that maybe it's time to move on with your gaming life instead of demanding things that ruin this core gameplay for everyone else.

Edited June 6, 2018 by sixmille

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20 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

It's not just in ESO that Castanas Trin is bonkers. Literally any enemy-dense mission makes the setup work: Defense, Survival, Excavation, Interception, most Infested missions. It's not really the level that matters either. The thing that's bothersome about CastTrin is that she's dealing high AoE damage through walls, and she's doing this by avoiding combat altogether and shooting at her own feet. That's not intended gameplay, and it doesn't matter what level or game mode it's in.

I mean, I get that. I was talking mostly about enemy levels not so much game modes. Power creep has worked its way into our mods, builds, frames, etc to the point the enemy levels we currently face (20-50 on daily content, plus 80-100 on sortie/ESO) is already too low for our dps output. So any AoE feels particularly overpowered when the enemy is getting one shot by whatever we throw at them. 

Also, I can understand and appreciate DE's current philosophy of wanting more dynamic gameplay, trying to get rid of frames that avoid contact with the enemy and just passively press one button to wipe the map, etc. I personally don't think nuke trinity needed to go entirely, could have just been toned down, but yea, I get it. I can ride with it, more dynamic gameplay is cool. What bothers me the most is just the mentality of some people here, the update hadn't even gone live yet, and there were already a bunch of people in this thread asking for an Equinox nerf next. Equinox does require interaction with the enemy in order to build his maim, even if that comes from his team mates, and his kit is really cool and well designed. If there was anything I'd feel is fair to change about him, it would be to ensure one equinox's maim cannot charge a second equinox's maim, just to void equinox stacking and main trading. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, sixmille said:

"Common sense" is neither "common" nor "sense". It's just a matter of preference. You like it, I don't, DE makes the final decision, it's that simple. You're bitter but it doesn't mean you're allowed to mock those who disagree with you either. I probably have more hours than most people in this thread, so i'm technically a "vet" and greatly enjoy when the game surprises me and kicks my butt in new ways instead of letting me roll my face on the keyboard until the map is clear. Not everyone is like you. You don't enjoy the core gameplay to the point you'd rather play AFK builds, fine, but please consider that maybe it's time to move on with your gaming life instead of demanding things that ruin this core gameplay for everyone else.

I didn't know "jumping around MANUALLY and pressing multiple mouse buttons while collecting ammo and positioning myself and my Castanas next to a 4th enemy group for maximum damage" is AFK gameplay. I also didn't know AFK gameplay apparently makes your hand hurt like you are getting carpal tunnel. Don't automatically assume I am another one of those guys who leave a macro on while my trin faceplants into a wall.

You seem to assume I actually enjoy playing Nuke Trin or even touching the Castanas. The bottom line is: I actually don't.

I love my Cycron more than anything. I hate Castanas, Talons and any other set and trigger secondary. But I still do it, because it is the easiest way for me to hit my daily focus cap on a map I particularly hate, be it Hydron or similar, and it ensures high amounts of focus per convergence orb. I am not a "journey oriented" person who plays just because of the experience. I want results. I learnt in life that enjoyment and results rarely walk hand in hand, if they ever collide and meet.

If anything, your so called "core gameplay" is just chewing itself up. People wouldn't be obsessed with efficiency if the rewards were less marginal and dismal. And yet people keep calling for frame nerfs. Sure, there are people like you who (hopefully) enjoy the core gameplay. But then many of the Nerf Warriors are simply those who can't pad their E Peen with that 90% damage number, hence they bring everyone down to their level.

I used to be quiet on the forums because I didn't feel anything was wrong with the game. But lately I tend to complain more. But who cares man? No one's gonna listen anyway.