The Sacrifice and forced farming [Spoiler]

[Ozymandius]

I get that operators are an important part of this game, and obviously they are crucial to the story quests.  But you have forced us to do boss fights to make our operators combat-capable (building amps with eidolon drops) and you have repeatedly forced us to face tough challenges in story quests as operators.  You are forcing people to do a boss fight (or many boss fights) that not everyone wants to do, in order to be able to access all the content, without having to die 50 times due to having a gimped amp.  This is a bad direction for the game.

[Rekkou]

Completely false because I literally never participate in any eidolon hunt, never build any mote amp, or anything related to operator based grinding yet still able to fight the boss battle. Some parts is annoying indeed, but no kind of forced to do something is needed.

[Guest]

Yes, let's make it so people can do it with an unmodded Mk1-Braton as well.

[ElocFreidon]

I have a fully kitted amp and full focus trees yet I still got repeatedly wrecked from stun spam.

[Click video for 3 minute time stamp]

 

[Shoelip]

I didn't die once during the operator fight... so I guess it depends on a lot of factors besides just grinding.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Shoelip

[nickmuj1212]

All you have to do is transfer in and out of your warframe, its really not hard. And the the 1v1, just keep hurting him, and then boom, blast, and done. Really not difficult.

[BlackCoMerc]

Soon as I found out this was another forced Operator fight, I knew this game is finally, really over for me. I've spent money and supported DE for years, but no more.

I came here to play Warframe. But this has become Operatorframe and I'm done. 

It's been a good ride, but the last few months have been a huge disappointment, watching the core of the game be utterly neglected in favor of a gimmick.

So...fare you well everyone. I'm out.

[SingularElement]

4 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

So...fare you well everyone. I'm out.

 

Hail! Fare thee well good fellow! I wish you a fine, fair morning and fair afternoon to you, you fine, fair fellow! Indubitable, formidable, redoubtable, and undoubtable salutations and full felicitations for taking your fine, fair ball and going home.

[Ozymandius]

It's not that I couldn't beat the fights, yeah maybe I died a bunch of times and I suck, fine.  That doesn't mean I'm wrong about this.  My point is that everything in this game takes farming, but there's usually a choice - either of what mission type/where to farm, or "I don't want to do this really long/tedious farm so I can do without the item".  The Operator focus tree is the same way.  But for operator amps and arcanes, there is ONE way to get it, and, increasingly, you can't do without it.  Right now it's just a few story quests that require Operator mode, but I'm sure it's going to be increasing over time.  I don't even mind being forced into Operator mode, that's fine - what's annoying is being forced to do one particular not-very-fun boss fight over and over and over and over and over again to get your operator halfway decent.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Ozymandius

[LankesterMerrin]

I'm doing the Sacrifice quest for the first time now and unless I am missing something, there are a few operator-only fights...? Since I avoid the operator as much as possible - apart from the usual spending of focus - and have absolutely zero intention of playing the crappy operator game in any way, this would be basically a hard stop for me.

Perhaps I am missing something (although the game does keep saying 'use void attacks'), but if it's indeed the case and we are now required to grind operator XP before we progress with the story line, then I'm out. This is bad design, pure and simple...

Edited June 16, 2018 by LankesterMerrin

[Sabreracer]

On 2018-06-15 at 12:11 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

Soon as I found out this was another forced Operator fight, I knew this game is finally, really over for me. I've spent money and supported DE for years, but no more.

I came here to play Warframe. But this has become Operatorframe and I'm done. 

It's been a good ride, but the last few months have been a huge disappointment, watching the core of the game be utterly neglected in favor of a gimmick.

So...fare you well everyone. I'm out.

So outside of the story quest we just played nothing has changed.

No new mechanics forcing you to play as an Operator if you don't want to.

The only game play that requires them are Eidolons and normal Kuva missions so I'd hardly say that everything is being neglected just because Operators.

As DE has always done they look to the next new thing that they hope will keep us interested or bring new blood.

However if you no longer enjoy this path I wish you a safe journey onto a new path.

[Tuoweit]

8 hours ago, LankesterMerrin said:

I'm doing the Sacrifice quest for the first time now and unless I am missing something, there are a few operator-only fights...? Since I avoid the operator as much as possible - apart from the usual spending of focus - and have absolutely zero intention of playing the crappy operator game in any way, this would be basically a hard stop for me.

Perhaps I am missing something (although the game does keep saying 'use void attacks'), but if it's indeed the case and we are now required to grind operator XP before we progress with the story line, then I'm out. This is bad design, pure and simple...

 

You are not required to farm anything or advance your operator to do the quest.  That might make it more tedious (although I've read that it's not much better with a maxed-out operator), but not more difficult to do. 

Spoiler

For some of the fights you still have access to your warframe, so you can use Transference as an escape to reposition and recover using your more resilient & agile warframe in between taking potshots with your operator.  In the one fight which is operator-only, you have infinite lives (i.e. basically it's impossible to fail) so you can just spawn-zerg your opponent. 

You may not enjoy the gameplay of it (I know I didn't), but it's still doable with a default operator loadout, and the story at least is worthwhile (not to mention getting the new warframe).

Edited June 17, 2018 by Tuoweit

[digimbyte]

Something everyone is forgetting. the default Amp uses your operator's energy. that pool is limited.
when you got a proper amp, then the energy cost is split. 
just MAYBE DE needs to split that from the start?

[Tuoweit]

2 minutes ago, digimbyte said:

Something everyone is forgetting. the default Amp uses your operator's energy. that pool is limited.
when you got a proper amp, then the energy cost is split. 
just MAYBE DE needs to split that from the start?

I can't forget something I never knew.  (And I even HAVE a Mote amp.)

[digimbyte]

I think its left over from the second dream when they introduced the (mote?) amp - you have to get a new amp from the quills to have separate energy pools, something most players are never told. so they simply never get the new amps

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 hour ago, Tuoweit said:

 

You are not required to farm anything or advance your operator to do the quest.  That might make it more tedious (although I've read that it's not much better with a maxed-out operator), but not more difficult to do. 

  Reveal hidden contents

For some of the fights you still have access to your warframe, so you can use Transference as an escape to reposition and recover using your more resilient & agile warframe in between taking potshots with your operator.  In the one fight which is operator-only, you have infinite lives (i.e. basically it's impossible to fail) so you can just spawn-zerg your opponent. 

You may not enjoy the gameplay of it (I know I didn't), but it's still doable with a default operator loadout, and the story at least is worthwhile (not to mention getting the new warframe).

My operator is not maxed out, but reasonably well-equipped, and I got stunspammed constantly. Plus, my amp only hurt umbra sometimes, and other times he'd just no-sell it. 

The basic thing I figured out was that I had to figure out the exact timing to punch his ass, because a millisecond off and it's Drunken Operator Passes Out time. 

[Vox_Preliator]

Ugh, why would they FORCE me to upgrade my (xyz)?  I HATE farming (xyz), they shouldn't force me to do something that makes me more effective in order to overcome the appropriate challenges!

Why shouldn't refusing to play content lead to being unable to play content?  I could refuse to ever touch Archwing, but then it would just be stupid to whine when I couldn't do Fomorians or the Jordas Precept.

Besides, exactly zero Operator upgrades are necessary in any quest thus far, and a T1/1/1 Amp is both way better than the Mote amp and dirt cheap.  Abuse Void Mode and Dash, abuse the hell out of it and you'll never be touched.  If you're losing any given battle because the foe's Numbers are higher than your Numbers, then you can either raise your Numbers or raise your Strategy.  If raising your Numbers is for whatever reason out of the question, then the answer should be obvious.

[AzureTerra]

Forced operator combat is bad, sure have some but for those of us who play WARframe not tweenframe make it as unobtrusive as possible ~ im possibly not going to finish the stupid quest because getting chain killed by a quest mob is not fun, not worth any amount of lore and not worth having a excalibore as a reward

[W3zeer]

Well it's not like dying as the operator meant anything... you just pick up the fight where you left it, I didn't even try to be smart about it, I learned from the Harrow desaster. Operator fights will never be interesting or exciting, they are still far to limited for that. But why they thought that having an enemy that is faster, stronger and far more durable than you being able to hit you while in void-mode was a good idea is absolutly beyond me... it's like having enemies with hitscan weaponry being able to oneshot even the tankiest frames...oh wait we have those too...

[Guest]

On 2018-06-15 at 4:50 PM, Ozymandius said:

I get that operators are an important part of this game, and obviously they are crucial to the story quests.  But you have forced us to do boss fights to make our operators combat-capable (building amps with eidolon drops) and you have repeatedly forced us to face tough challenges in story quests as operators.  You are forcing people to do a boss fight (or many boss fights) that not everyone wants to do, in order to be able to access all the content, without having to die 50 times due to having a gimped amp.  This is a bad direction for the game.

I had the exact thought while doing the quest, especially considering how nauseous I felt when navigating the massive map of PoE while constantly bullet jumping and sprinting, making the grind for a good amp really difficult for me. Even the archwing in PoE made me dizzier than usual, and there aren't any flashlights strapped to primary weapons at night, unlike regular warframe maps, which is hardly ever reasonable. Needless to say, PoE was not well-paced. All of a sudden I'm fighting enemies and airships and stuff, moving around and dodging, then I'll return to the stationary and mundane task of fishing and mining. But compared to fighting bs airships, I'd rather go fishing and mining.

For now, I suggest using specters to attract aggro, so your operator can focus on grinding down Umbra's health. They're literal life savers.