The biggest reason I've stopped actively playing the game

[Vgavis]

Why does everyone need some kind of purpose for doing things. Isn't the purpose of saving the galaxy enough? 😛 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

On 2018-07-30 at 1:18 PM, (PS4)zedlanik said:

Instead of adding new resources for us to grind more they need to facouse on veteran players there is no fun anymore soon as you reach max poin where you feel you got nearly everything you start loggin in for reward and watching market chat helping others is fun but that's the problem DE'S facouse is to get more new players rather focusing on veteran players .warframe is still in beta and it is becoming no fun for lot of players 

At some point, you have to consider that you've simply played the game out.  Like, it's not intended to run forever. You cannot and should not expect a developer to create a game experience that is still just as strong over 2k hours into it.  At that point, it's up to you to decide what's fun to do with your in-game time.  That's not poor development.  That's Game Won.   If it were poor development, you wouldn't have put 2k+ hrs into it in the first place.

On 2018-07-30 at 10:09 PM, Kimimoto said:

That's what MMO's do? You level up, progress your character so you can beat the endgame. 

I've leveled up, progressed my character and there's nothing here. Why did I just do all that? There was no point.

Also, yes, that's a bad thing, it completely negates all the progression systems in your game.

Imagine if there were 600 upgrades in mario but the game never got any harder or made you use those upgrades you worked for. What was the point of it all?

Every other MMO does it, even Destiny a game Warframe is regularly paired with has raiding. It's not some crazy notion, this is the norm. 

Thanks for trying to paint people who disagree as "blaming" DE though, totally on the nose with that one.

I enjoy the "upgrades" just because they give me options.  I don't care if waves of Grineer get super easy to slaughter...I still get to fight waves of Grineer!  Also, I can do so while decked out in my favorite gear, using all of my custom skins/colors/ etc.  That, to me, is the reward for putting so much time into grinding.

And you ARE blaming DE.  If you're saying there is an issue with the game's development, the responsibility must rest on the developer, no?  I mean, who else are you holding responsible for the game's development?  I don't agree that DE's done anything wrong here, I honestly think you're all just pushing yourselves to play something you don't want to, and you don't realize it yet, but no, I'm not trying to "paint" anyone as anything.  I call it what it is.

1 hour ago, ryamadeus said:

I think I'm at the point that if I want a shooter-looter esque MMO with challenging endgame content geared for "veterans" of the game I should play Destiny 2 and Warframe side by side. Warframe is a phenomenal game, but I think it's pretty obvious DE is very comfortable and happy with their current content formula. I don't think they have plans to release raids any longer, Dark Sectors might eventually happen, but it's just going to be another endless mode that wont yield the rewards people expect from challenging content. They will never do that because it will alienate a strong fanbase of the game: the casuals. 

My suggestion: look forward to Destiny 2, The Division 2 and Anthem, they might be good games to play along with Warframe because we're never getting actual endgame. 

But which is it?  We want challenging content?  Or do we want "fitting rewards" which will only further trivialize what is intended to be "challenging content"?

11 minutes ago, Vgavis said:

Why does everyone need some kind of purpose for doing things. Isn't the purpose of saving the galaxy enough? 😛 

This guy gets it! 😄

[.Yes]

On 2018-07-31 at 12:37 AM, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Just a thought:  Why should DE or anyone be "blamed" for us not finding a challenge late-game, as if that's a bad thing?  Has anyone stopped to consider that maybe, at that point in your journey, you've simply "won" Warframe?  Maybe at that point you can stop playing?

It'd be like playing Monopoly, and complaining that "Once I have all the properties, there's no more point in playing!  They should create even BIGGER properties!  Or create a new economy we switch to...or or..."   Hopefully I made my point.  Sometimes, it's just game over....and that's not a fault in the game's design...just a sign that you're at the end....for now.

Is this your first MMO experience? There should be no end to an MMO experience, there's always an endgame, ALWAYS something to do, its the ONE thing that Destiny has that warframe does not. Its the final evolution to warframe that player require, but developers haven't quite been able to produce. To say that this is the final evolution of gameplay for warframe is to say that WoW will never have another expansion, or to say that BDO won't continue developing it's lifestyle system. This is not the final evolution of warframe, and players that asks us to stop asking for a proper endgame is stifling the discussion and handicapping any player that brings up the ever important conversation between players and developers.

MMOs are supposed to have endless content, your monopoly analogy is somewhat a misperception of the scenario. Monopoly is a one and done game, meaning you play with friends once and when that game ends, that's it. There's no point continuing because there's a clear and concise winner because the game's rules dictate there should be. MMOs DO NOT have a clear and concise winner because that defeats the point of the game. There are no rules, its a society of gamers, and there are no winners, just players. You can compare warframe perhaps to an instrument, like piano. You start off bad at it, but through playing countless hours, you improve. Then you keep playing to improve your skills. You don't just stop one day and say "welp, I won piano" because that lacks common understanding of why or how you play piano. There are no piano winners, just like there are no warframe winners. If you want to "win" a game of snakes and ladders might be more your style.

Warframe needs an endgame, not because players demand it, but because it is the final act of the game that keeps players interested in the journey, its the final leg of the race that builds upon itself until it is infinitely bigger and more important than any prior part of the game. The endgame is the TRUE game, its what you spend countless of hours diving into. The fact that warframe lacks its own final chapter goes to show that this game is far from the final product, and when players say this is it, "you can stop playing now" before that chapter is out...

means you haven't even started to play yet.

The real game begins at endgame.

Edited August 3, 2018 by --Q--Phanini

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

38 minutes ago, --Q--Phanini said:

Is this your first MMO experience? There should be no end to an MMO experience, there's always an endgame, ALWAYS something to do, its the ONE thing that Destiny has that warframe does not. Its the final evolution to warframe that player require, but developers haven't quite been able to produce. To say that this is the final evolution of gameplay for warframe is to say that WoW will never have another expansion, or to say that BDO won't continue developing it's lifestyle system. This is not the final evolution of warframe, and players that asks us to stop asking for a proper endgame is stifling the discussion and handicapping any player that brings up the ever important conversation between players and developers.

MMOs are supposed to have endless content, your monopoly analogy is somewhat a misperception of the scenario. Monopoly is a one and done game, meaning you play with friends once and when that game ends, that's it. There's no point continuing because there's a clear and concise winner because the game's rules dictate there should be. MMOs DO NOT have a clear and concise winner because that defeats the point of the game. There are no rules, its a society of gamers, and there are no winners, just players. You can compare warframe perhaps to an instrument, like piano. You start off bad at it, but through playing countless hours, you improve. Then you keep playing to improve your skills. You don't just stop one day and say "welp, I won piano" because that lacks common understanding of why or how you play piano. There are no piano winners, just like there are no warframe winners. If you want to "win" a game of snakes and ladders might be more your style.

Warframe needs an endgame, not because players demand it, but because it is the final act of the game that keeps players interested in the journey, its the final leg of the race that builds upon itself until it is infinitely bigger and more important than any prior part of the game. The endgame is the TRUE game, its what you spend countless of hours diving into. The fact that warframe lacks its own final chapter goes to show that this game is far from the final product, and when players say this is it, "you can stop playing now" before that chapter is out...

means you haven't even started to play yet.

The real game begins at endgame.

So, it needs an "endgame", which you define as a "final act of the game", but you also insist it must "go on forever"?  That...doesn't make sense, bud.

No, this is not my first MMO, kid.  I've been playing games for a loooooooooooong time.  It's also worth noting that Warframe is NOT an MMO, in the strictest sense.  That being said, your example using Piano actually doesn't work...because many people DO pick up an instrument, get really good at it, and then pull back dramatically on hours invested in said instrument once they reach a level of mastery, the exception maybe being someone who performs professionally with the instrument.  

Likewise, players of Warframe play it until their eyes bleed some 4000 hrs later, and insist that it keep "being fun", when in fact they've already gotten most of their fun out of it.  It is what it is, and yet players demand it be more because "but this CAN'T be all that's in here, right?!"

I've hardly -ever- seen games in my 3+ decades on this green Earth that have warranted 4000 hrs+ of in-game play.....and yet Warframe does this with little issue.  THIS is one big point I'm trying to make here.  Warframe is not bad.  It is not poorly designed or lacking.  CLEARLY it has plenty of content.  You've simply reached the end of what you perceive as "challenging content", at least for the time being, and are not willing to be patient enough to wait for new content to come out.  We KNOW more updates are coming, which are undoubtedly bringing harder content, and yet here we all are, many of you yelling that it isn't here -yesterday-. 

I have well over 1000 hours in Warframe. You cannot claim the game "begins at endgame", when you claim there is no "endgame".  If it doesn't exist, then you're expecting something of the game which it isn't meant to be.  If endgame DOES exist, then you're admitting it has what you claimed wasn't there. So, ya know....gotta clear that up with yourself first.

Now, LET ME BE PERFECTLY CLEAR:  I am NOT saying you should quit, or that you should be giving up Warframe, at -all-.   What I AM saying, or rather suggesting, is that perhaps you should give it a break until your desired content comes forth.  I am suggesting that perhaps you've simply been overindulging in something long past the point at which your appetite was sated.  

Y'all keep throwing around how a "Mk-1 Braton can be endgame!"  but hey...NOT WITHOUT THE MODS!  And to GET those mods, unless you plan on buying a bunch of plat, you need to farm, trade, LEARN the game......  It's not like people get to Sorties overnight.  They really don't!   

My gf is currently MR8 and is still struggling with alot of the content because she is severely lacking in mods and such.  It's not all about "Oh, you just make a few weapons and you win".

You didn't get where you are overnight.  I didn't play 1000 hrs in a week, nor a month.  I've had a ton of exciting moments in-game over the time during which I've played.  I streamed for awhile, for 350+ followers/viewers, I took a year long break, I learned, re-learned, and re-re-learned the game.  I watch my gf playing it now, and again see it through a new player's viewpoint AND as a long-time player.  I DO -"get it"-   .... I just don't agree that Warframe is "lacking" in this supposed "endgame".  I feel there are plenty of challenges, plenty of fun things to do....and if you can no longer play for 4+ hrs a day....I'm just saying that that's NOT a design flaw...it just means you're outgrowing it a bit, and should maybe play less on those days.   I used to put in 8hr's a day when streaming.  Now, I maybe play for 2-3 hrs.  Some nights I only put in 30 minutes.  That's not anything to do with Warframe "not being challenging".  I'm just simply growing older, I work alot, and I don't always feel like playing it.   

I also love pizza, but I don't order 3 pies every friggin' night.  Doesn't mean the pizza isn't as good a it once was,...just means, well... if you continually take in too much of a good thing, you kinda become numb to it.  So, take some time off the game, and see how you feel about it after awhile. 

[(PSN)Faithmender]

On 2018-07-21 at 8:20 PM, Kimimoto said:

I love this game. I LOVE IT, I wouldn't have played it for 2000 hours if I didn't. Can it love me back for a minute? The apathy is crippling.

 

...Cause 2,000 hours of free gameplay isn't "loving you back" enough for you. Jesus listen to yourself, APATHY?! You can disagree with what they're doing but it's a ridiculous thing to claim that they don't care. 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Faithmender said:

...Cause 2,000 hours of free gameplay isn't "loving you back" enough for you. Jesus listen to yourself, APATHY?! You can disagree with what they're doing but it's a ridiculous thing to claim that they don't care. 

THANK YOU!

[(XBOX)Tr0gL0dyt3]

Learn to swim

[Zimzala]

7 hours ago, --Q--Phanini said:

Is this your first MMO experience? There should be no end to an MMO experience, there's always an endgame, ALWAYS something to do, its the ONE thing that Destiny has that warframe does not. Its the final evolution to warframe that player require, but developers haven't quite been able to produce. To say that this is the final evolution of gameplay for warframe is to say that WoW will never have another expansion, or to say that BDO won't continue developing it's lifestyle system. This is not the final evolution of warframe, and players that asks us to stop asking for a proper endgame is stifling the discussion and handicapping any player that brings up the ever important conversation between players and developers.

MMOs are supposed to have endless content, your monopoly analogy is somewhat a misperception of the scenario. Monopoly is a one and done game, meaning you play with friends once and when that game ends, that's it. There's no point continuing because there's a clear and concise winner because the game's rules dictate there should be. MMOs DO NOT have a clear and concise winner because that defeats the point of the game. There are no rules, its a society of gamers, and there are no winners, just players. You can compare warframe perhaps to an instrument, like piano. You start off bad at it, but through playing countless hours, you improve. Then you keep playing to improve your skills. You don't just stop one day and say "welp, I won piano" because that lacks common understanding of why or how you play piano. There are no piano winners, just like there are no warframe winners. If you want to "win" a game of snakes and ladders might be more your style.

Warframe needs an endgame, not because players demand it, but because it is the final act of the game that keeps players interested in the journey, its the final leg of the race that builds upon itself until it is infinitely bigger and more important than any prior part of the game. The endgame is the TRUE game, its what you spend countless of hours diving into. The fact that warframe lacks its own final chapter goes to show that this game is far from the final product, and when players say this is it, "you can stop playing now" before that chapter is out...

means you haven't even started to play yet.

The real game begins at endgame.

IMO, this is simply nostalgia talking.

This is what MMO endgame _was_ but that does not mean that is what has to be wil _all_ _forever_.

Why do players have to try to drag every MMO back to EQ?

Want != Need.

[ryamadeus]

If there is anything worse than fanatics its apologists. You can say whatever you want how we are irrational because "we always want something and never are satisfied", but the one thing Destiny will always have over Warframe is the fact that Destiny has raids. Warframe does not. You're right. Endgame doesn't have to be raids. There can be something different, but if your idea of endgame is endless onslaught and eidolons, it hasn't worked and hasn't successfully replaced raids.

Is it wrong to ask DE for a reason to keep grinding mastery rank? Is it wrong to want to be challenged and get more powerful to look forward to the next challlenge? That's what the purpose of raids is, in every MMO ever made. To get stronger for the next challenge to come. We don't have that in Warframe, and if we did, it'd be a complete game. For now, like I said, is I'm just going to dedicate myself to reach MR25 and just play every new quest they release from that moment on, eventually I will lose motivation to even do so. That may be a year away, but still, it will end. Meanwhile I haven't stopped raiding actively in WoW for the past 6 years. 

Maybe this is just me begging for something or somebody to finally drag me off WoW. But I need that competitive aspect in the game for me to finally put that game down. There is nothing competitive about Warframe, only linear individual progression, and that's fine, but I just wish there was something more. Trust me, I know a lot of people would permanently switch to Warframe if there was any form of competitive raids. Even if they were small and only had two bosses, but the competition is a very big deal for a lot of people, and before you get scared and say "but I dont want hard content or items to be gated by hard to clear content": it's not all about you, there has to be content for everyone, not just the people who only wanna log in to jump around in a mission and log off. That's valid, but you conform a sector of the entire audience, you may be the largest, but there is another percentage of that audience that likes to be challenged and likes to have a reason for acquiring more items and more power.  

[Zimzala]

The game is fiscally successful and contines to grow, how has the formulae not worked?

As for the 'competitive' aspect many players want, IMO, many more that play PvE do not want that aspect, as it drives more human conflict within a game, creating elitists and insular groups that try to 'lord over' other players. Show me one MMO with this type of 'competition' that does not attract players that want to 'beat' others in droves.

IME, the players of MMOs as a whole are terrible 'sportsman' because the anonymity allows it.

I would love for DE to add more content, for the veterans and for the new players.

IMO, the community that thinks these things need to be 'competitive' to be valuable is a small one and a hold-over from the traditional 'raiding' community.

The MMO landscape has moved on from enabling the 'l33t' to get stuff to show off to the 'n00bs', IMO/E and I am happy with that.

[Volinus7]

I think many people should use the words "corresponding difficulties" instead of "endgame". 

[tripletriple]

DE have been saying they want to create an end game for 5 years now. They still haven't delivered. It's really not hard to create some content like sorties hardmode with better rewards and lock it to survival 20 mins and defense.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, ryamadeus said:

If there is anything worse than fanatics its apologists. You can say whatever you want how we are irrational because "we always want something and never are satisfied", but the one thing Destiny will always have over Warframe is the fact that Destiny has raids. Warframe does not. You're right. Endgame doesn't have to be raids. There can be something different, but if your idea of endgame is endless onslaught and eidolons, it hasn't worked and hasn't successfully replaced raids.

Is it wrong to ask DE for a reason to keep grinding mastery rank? Is it wrong to want to be challenged and get more powerful to look forward to the next challlenge? That's what the purpose of raids is, in every MMO ever made. To get stronger for the next challenge to come. We don't have that in Warframe, and if we did, it'd be a complete game. For now, like I said, is I'm just going to dedicate myself to reach MR25 and just play every new quest they release from that moment on, eventually I will lose motivation to even do so. That may be a year away, but still, it will end. Meanwhile I haven't stopped raiding actively in WoW for the past 6 years. 

Maybe this is just me begging for something or somebody to finally drag me off WoW. But I need that competitive aspect in the game for me to finally put that game down. There is nothing competitive about Warframe, only linear individual progression, and that's fine, but I just wish there was something more. Trust me, I know a lot of people would permanently switch to Warframe if there was any form of competitive raids. Even if they were small and only had two bosses, but the competition is a very big deal for a lot of people, and before you get scared and say "but I dont want hard content or items to be gated by hard to clear content": it's not all about you, there has to be content for everyone, not just the people who only wanna log in to jump around in a mission and log off. That's valid, but you conform a sector of the entire audience, you may be the largest, but there is another percentage of that audience that likes to be challenged and likes to have a reason for acquiring more items and more power.  

Destiny has lots of things.  So does Warframe.  So does DCUO.  I'm not here to compare Warframe to other games.  Warframe only has to compete with Warframe.  Is it better today than it was yesterday?  Absolutely!  You state that ESO and Eidolons are not "endgame" content...TO YOU...but realize there are just as many people who feel the opposite...AND THAT'S OKAY!  Opinions =/= Facts.

DE gives plenty of reason to grind MR.  1) To try out new and different weapons/frames.  2) To challenge yourself with MR Tests.  3) Just for the challenge of doing so, which is something you claim you want.  You don't just -get- MR.  You've gotta grind missions and work hard to GET the stuff to gain MR.  Then you've gotta pass the tests.  Y'all try to make it sound like it's just a quick-and-easy action, and it isn't.   Plus, if you're saying "I'm just going to dedicate myself to reach MR25 and just play every new quest they release from that moment on...."  well...clearly, whatever they're doing is working because you still have the drive to play.  So where's the issue?  You're not as excited as the first day you started the game?  No, of course not!  You're out of the honeymoon phase, and that's normal.  It's no fault of the devs.

Also, that "competitive aspect", the "something more" you keep asking for....already exists in many ways in Warframe.  One competitive feature is PvP in Conclave.  I'm not much of a PvP fan, myself, but I recognize that when AI is no longer challenging...fighting OTHER PEOPLE can certainly up the stakes!  Buuuuut y'all cry that it ain't fair, or it ain't good enough, etc etc...   I'm sorry, DE gives an answer and you don't like it, that's on you...not them.   Conclave exists for Tenno to test their "I'm-a-vet-and-super-elite-warrior-fite-me" skills on each other.  The fact that y'all would rather stick with fighting hordes of, in your implications, "inferior AI"...says alot about your true views on the matter.  You don't want a challenge, you just want another thing to hit with your overpowered gear.

There are plenty of boss fights.  Try running things without your top gear, or without meta-cheeseframes.  See if the increase in difficulty is something that -actually- appeals to you.

As for other raiding type missions....We DO have Railjack coming, Kingpin is rumored in the works, there are new quests on the horizon, with new maps and harder bosses....  So it isn't that Warframe doesn't have these things, or that DE isn't trying or "doesn't care", it's just that there are only 24 hours in a damned day and y'all want it done yesterday.  Be. Patient. Put the game down, go play somethin' else (like Destiny since ya keep comparing it), and come back when DE updates.  It's fine.  That's how games are MEANT to be.  

There is nothing "wrong" with content just because you become oversaturated by it and thus disinterested.  That's normal, and certainly not exclusive to Warframe.  It's just human.

[ryamadeus]

45 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

The game is fiscally successful and contines to grow, how has the formulae not worked?

As for the 'competitive' aspect many players want, IMO, many more that play PvE do not want that aspect, as it drives more human conflict within a game, creating elitists and insular groups that try to 'lord over' other players. Show me one MMO with this type of 'competition' that does not attract players that want to 'beat' others in droves.

IME, the players of MMOs as a whole are terrible 'sportsman' because the anonymity allows it.

I would love for DE to add more content, for the veterans and for the new players.

IMO, the community that thinks these things need to be 'competitive' to be valuable is a small one and a hold-over from the traditional 'raiding' community.

The MMO landscape has moved on from enabling the 'l33t' to get stuff to show off to the 'n00bs', IMO/E and I am happy with that.

 

1) I never said the "formula" didn't work. I said Eidolons and Endless Onslaught hasn't worked in replacing true endgame raids. 

2) Also, as I said, yes, I'm aware you don't like to be challenged because you're afraid to realize that improvement is needed, but you conform a percentage of an audience. Your percentage might be larger, but there should be content for everyone, not just for casuals. 

3) Elitists already exist in the game. 

4) Competition, as a general concept, is about to be better than the other. Every aspect of life that has competition in it, will attract people that want to beat others. That's the whole point of competition.

5) It has not moved on from enabling the "leets" though. Look at WoW and how mythic raids in Legion went. And WoW is still the most successful MMO in the market, with the most amount of players.  

[Zimzala]

4 minutes ago, ryamadeus said:

 

1) I never said the "formula" didn't work. I said Eidolons and Endless Onslaught hasn't worked in replacing true endgame raids. 

2) Also, as I said, yes, I'm aware you don't like to be challenged because you're afraid to realize that improvement is needed, but you conform a percentage of an audience. Your percentage might be larger, but there should be content for everyone, not just for casuals. 

3) Elitists already exist in the game. 

4) Competition, as a general concept, is about to be better than the other. Every aspect of life that has competition in it, will attract people that want to beat others. That's the whole point of competition.

5) It has not moved on from enabling the "leets" though. Look at WoW and how mythic raids in Legion went. And WoW is still the most successful MMO in the market, with the most amount of players.  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *whew*

Still trying to get that PvE 'carebear' dig in there I see.

That is some serious twisted logic to go from "I do not like to play with competitive poeple because they suck the fun out of games" to "I have no ability or desire to get better at a game." What a load of crap.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Sure WoW does well. No argument there. WoW is also full to the brim with the type of players I don't like as people playing those raids, so what?

Game styles in numerous MMOs have moved on from the progressive raiding. Does not mean there is not a market for it as WoW shows.

I simply do not think it is, in anyway, innovative and to add it to WF just brings more those players that like to look down on ther players, so even if we have elitists, I would prefer not to invite more of them. Traditional progressive raiding is toxic to positive gaming communities IME.

The formulae for the game is successful, even if some aspects do not produce the end-game experience you desire.

IMO, one should play the games they enjoy, not try to change them into other games. 🙂 

[ryamadeus]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

 

1. ESO and Eidolons are not endgame challenges. That's a fact. They may come later in the player individual progression, but they're not endgame challenges because they're not difficult. 
2. MR tests are not challenges, they can be cleared blind on the first attempt. There is no challenge in leveling new weapons or frames. There is no "hard work" in gaining MR because all you have to do is level a frame or a weapon. 
3. Nobody cares about Conclave. No, it doesn't exist to test the "I'm-a-vet-and-super-elite-warrior-fite-me" thing you said. And yes I want a challenge, I don't care if it means another thing to hit. You clearly have no clue what I'm getting at here.
4. Bosses in this game are not difficult at all. I don't think they're meant to be and I don't think DE ever meant them to be difficult, that's why they're not. They're a joke, and that's the point. If you want me to take everything off and fight a boss with absolutely no mods, and an unranked weapon, to artificially increase the difficulty, with arbitrary rules, you're delusional. You clearly missed the point of a competitive raiding MMO.
5. Railjack is not a raid, Kingpin is not a raid, those are just content patches. And as you just said "RUMORS". There are rumors, of content maybe happening, who knows when, but there are rumors, so I should be satisfied with knowing that. To be quite honest, I just realized that even attempting to argue with you was pointless because you don't know what a raid is. 

Honestly, if I were you, I'd just delete the post because there wasn't a point to it all.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

13 minutes ago, ryamadeus said:

 

1) I never said the "formula" didn't work. I said Eidolons and Endless Onslaught hasn't worked in replacing true endgame raids. 

2) Also, as I said, yes, I'm aware you don't like to be challenged because you're afraid to realize that improvement is needed, but you conform a percentage of an audience. Your percentage might be larger, but there should be content for everyone, not just for casuals. 

3) Elitists already exist in the game. 

4) Competition, as a general concept, is about to be better than the other. Every aspect of life that has competition in it, will attract people that want to beat others. That's the whole point of competition.

5) It has not moved on from enabling the "leets" though. Look at WoW and how mythic raids in Legion went. And WoW is still the most successful MMO in the market, with the most amount of players.  

1) Warframe is not an MMO.

2) Warframe is not an MMO.

3) Warframe is not an MMO....

And I believe by Elitism and Competition, the other Tenno was referring to levels of toxicity, which were there in unhealthy amounts.

Trials (note: NOT called "Raids") were NOT "endgame".  They were just another cheese factory.  Ya found the meta, y'all stood on a switch, and ya won.   There was hardly even communication.  I played 'em plenty and never found them more challenging than other content, unless you're considering the enormous amount of patience I had to have to put up with 6 people on mics all screaming in my ears =_=  

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

2 minutes ago, ryamadeus said:

1. ESO and Eidolons are not endgame challenges. That's a fact. They may come later in the player individual progression, but they're not endgame challenges because they're not difficult. 
2. MR tests are not challenges, they can be cleared blind on the first attempt. There is no challenge in leveling new weapons or frames. There is no "hard work" in gaining MR because all you have to do is level a frame or a weapon. 
3. Nobody cares about Conclave. No, it doesn't exist to test the "I'm-a-vet-and-super-elite-warrior-fite-me" thing you said. And yes I want a challenge, I don't care if it means another thing to hit. You clearly have no clue what I'm getting at here.
4. Bosses in this game are not difficult at all. I don't think they're meant to be and I don't think DE ever meant them to be difficult, that's why they're not. They're a joke, and that's the point. If you want me to take everything off and fight a boss with absolutely no mods, and an unranked weapon, to artificially increase the difficulty, with arbitrary rules, you're delusional. You clearly missed the point of a competitive raiding MMO.
5. Railjack is not a raid, Kingpin is not a raid, those are just content patches. And as you just said "RUMORS". There are rumors, of content maybe happening, who knows when, but there are rumors, so I should be satisfied with knowing that. To be quite honest, I just realized that even attempting to argue with you was pointless because you don't know what a raid is. 

Honestly, if I were you, I'd just delete the post because there wasn't a point to it all.

1. They're not difficult ... TO YOU.  You forget that gameplay experiences are relative.   In Pokemon, fighting Red is the "Endgame", but there comes a point where your team is at LEAST 40 levels above his own.  Does that mean he ceases to be "endgame" or simply that the player has continued to push their strength to the point that endgame is also simple?

2. You really don't read what I write, I swear.  You look at the words and your brain just goes "Nope, that's not my opinion.  Time to ignore it..." MR tests CAN be challenging.  I'm MR21 and I have had my fair share of challenges.  If you wanna call me a noob for that, then by all means...go ahead and prove everyone's point.  LEVELING the frames/weapons is not the challenge so much as acquiring them, which is WHAT I SAID.   Still, I play for the fun of playing, not because someone hands me a trophy for doing so.  

3. This statement is completely false, because I know at LEAST a few Discords worth of players that do, so you cannot state "nobody" when "somebody" does care.  Conclave is Player-v-Player.  There exists no other reason to fight another player EXCEPT but to test your skills vs theirs.  Now, if you're worried that you can't handle the challenge...

4. Warframe is not an MMO.   Also, the boss fights are trivial to you NOW, because you've got all the stuff to make it so.  It is not that way for everyone.  Clearly you lack the ability to put yourself in other players' shoes and empathize.  

5. Trials were just "content patches", by your logic.  Railjack is not a rumor.  It is obviously confirmed.  Kingpin is rumored to be "ON THE HORIZON" is what I said, not that it exists at all.  It IS coming, just a matter of time.  There are MANY changes coming.  Just because they're not out the moment DE tells us about them doesn't mean it's a myth.  Jeez, the lack of patience here is astounding.

Really, kid?  I have been playing MMOs since the genre was birthed.  Don't try and tell me that just because you've played too much WoW and Destiny that you are some supreme expert on what a "Raid" is.  How arrogant can you be?

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

This thread is leading NOWHERE. 

I'm inclined to agree, though tbh these threads keep popping up over and over.  As much as I'd like to just let the posts die, at the same time, the idea that these posts are propagating the forums, unchallenged, and thus to new players appearing as if they are facts rather than opinions....doesn't sit well with me.

I have a few friends who I had to really push to get them back to trying Warframe, for no other reason than "but everyone says "x" about it being trash" etc.   It's important to have equal representation of the game (to me).  I would hate for some new player to think that elitism and cheese is all there is to this game.

[Zimzala]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I'm inclined to agree, though tbh these threads keep popping up over and over.  As much as I'd like to just let the posts die, at the same time, the idea that these posts are propagating the forums, unchallenged, and thus to new players appearing as if they are facts rather than opinions....doesn't sit well with me.

I have a few friends who I had to really push to get them back to trying Warframe, for no other reason than "but everyone says "x" about it being trash" etc.   It's important to have equal representation of the game (to me).  I would hate for some new player to think that elitism and cheese is all there is to this game.

This.

Too often the general forum outlook for many games seems to be "it is fine for the complainers to complain, but not OK for people call out instances where those complaints are BS."

There are multiple sides to all issues and just 'letting the ranters rant' unchallenged alludes to a silent majority accepting what is said on forums as fact rather than opinion.

So, here we are, talking about the same thing I see on all multilplayer game forums, people that think they should be allowed to tell others how to play games and/or dictate game changes. 🙂 

[Unus]

2 hours ago, ryamadeus said:

1. ESO and Eidolons are not endgame challenges. That's a fact. They may come later in the player individual progression, but they're not endgame challenges because they're not difficult. 
2. MR tests are not challenges, they can be cleared blind on the first attempt. There is no challenge in leveling new weapons or frames. There is no "hard work" in gaining MR because all you have to do is level a frame or a weapon. 
3. Nobody cares about Conclave. No, it doesn't exist to test the "I'm-a-vet-and-super-elite-warrior-fite-me" thing you said. And yes I want a challenge, I don't care if it means another thing to hit. You clearly have no clue what I'm getting at here.
4. Bosses in this game are not difficult at all. I don't think they're meant to be and I don't think DE ever meant them to be difficult, that's why they're not. They're a joke, and that's the point. If you want me to take everything off and fight a boss with absolutely no mods, and an unranked weapon, to artificially increase the difficulty, with arbitrary rules, you're delusional. You clearly missed the point of a competitive raiding MMO.
5. Railjack is not a raid, Kingpin is not a raid, those are just content patches. And as you just said "RUMORS". There are rumors, of content maybe happening, who knows when, but there are rumors, so I should be satisfied with knowing that. To be quite honest, I just realized that even attempting to argue with you was pointless because you don't know what a raid is. 

Honestly, if I were you, I'd just delete the post because there wasn't a point to it all.

My only question sir, in my time reading your comment is. . . what exactly do you mean by competition? Isn't Conclave the living embodiment of EVERYTHING that is competitive? Two opposeing teams fighting to score points and beat the others for bragging rights and team spirit/fanaticism?

 

What is competition in the context of your statement? This isn't an insult, but, genuine baffled curiosity.

[DatDarkOne]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I'm inclined to agree, though tbh these threads keep popping up over and over.  As much as I'd like to just let the posts die, at the same time, the idea that these posts are propagating the forums, unchallenged, and thus to new players appearing as if they are facts rather than opinions....doesn't sit well with me.

I have a few friends who I had to really push to get them back to trying Warframe, for no other reason than "but everyone says "x" about it being trash" etc.   It's important to have equal representation of the game (to me).  I would hate for some new player to think that elitism and cheese is all there is to this game.

 

5 hours ago, Zimzala said:

This.

Too often the general forum outlook for many games seems to be "it is fine for the complainers to complain, but not OK for people call out instances where those complaints are BS."

There are multiple sides to all issues and just 'letting the ranters rant' unchallenged alludes to a silent majority accepting what is said on forums as fact rather than opinion.

So, here we are, talking about the same thing I see on all multilplayer game forums, people that think they should be allowed to tell others how to play games and/or dictate game changes. 🙂 

I love these two posts.  I wish I could upvote them more.  

[-HoB-KurtOn]

On 2018-07-22 at 5:20 AM, Kimimoto said:

There's no means to an end for player progression. We work for all this power; weapons, frames, mods, arcanes, focus, sentinels, companions, forma, catalysts, reactors, exilus adapters, amps, rivens. None of this is needed, you can do all the content in the game with an unformad frame/weapon. It didn't use to be this way, the void gave us purpose to upgrading EVERYTHING and nothing has taken it's place.

What's the point anymore? 

Why would I upgrade anything?

If new weapons or frames come out I'm just going to level them to thirty and let them sit there.

I'm incredibly bored of leaving on C rotations, I want a reason to stay in a mission so I can make use of these systems. I want a reason to have fun. The developers don't feel the same way however. They're so engrossed with making content "20 minute, bite sized" that that's all there is now. It's the only option, even new "endgame" game modes are cascaded into mundanity when there's no reason to do so. The horizon doesn't give any hope either, it doesn't even seem to be on the devs radar.

Kuva Survival could easily have reasonable rewards that increment up to a cap, that would incentivise players to stay in the mission for a tiny benefit. e.g. Have the Kuva rewarded jump up to 250 after 20 minutes, that's it. It would still give less than Floods, while giving players a reason to power up using the multitude of systems that are in the game.

 

I love this game. I LOVE IT, I wouldn't have played it for 2000 hours if I didn't. Can it love me back for a minute? The apathy is crippling.

Casual players won't start vanishing. They won't be forced to stick a feeding tube down their throat, so they can stay in a Survival for 8 hours. They'll still have free will. 

I know the pieces fit, cause I watched them fall away. 

 

 

This is so true i feel depressed..I too miss the feeling of staying 2 hours using 1 key until getting that rare drop..There is no more point in that since u can just restart and go for the rotation with easier enemies..I was very dissapointed with fissures being introduced idk what to think, they literally killed already nonexisting endgame..But yea, devs dont see that, they call it a change, even if its for the worse..Thats why im feeling bored/brainwashed when im entering warframe because there is nothing to do, miss me with the eidolon bs, i didnt start playing warframe to be a fekin kid jumping around shooting godzillas..

[Legion-Shields]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Tr0gL0dyt3 said:

Learn to swim

Lol

[Kimimoto]

13 hours ago, Zimzala said:

people that think they should be allowed to tell others how to play games and/or dictate game changes

This statement is so confusing I don't know if you want harder content or not, that's how backwards some of you are. I'm being told to look at paint dry or quit playing the game, am I the one telling people how to play?

 

13 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

This thread is leading NOWHERE. 

I agree, I'm going to abandon my own thread because it's currently a casual elitist circle jerk. The game is currently so casually oriented that hardcore players are leaking out the backend and have stopped playing the game. Clans full of inactive players who came to the same realization, that this all leads nowhere. Upgrade systems that have no purpose, constantly asking why you're maxing out a weapon.

If you disagree, the majority of the people who saw this thread thought otherwise, check the reactions on the opening post. While that may just be a coincedence, I believe that does reflect how the Warframe community feels, and that people enjoy a challenge. I hope that anyone saying it has no place in this game are proven wrong, I hope that DE are aware and thinking of ways to implement some harder content. 

I wish you all well Tenno, have fun