[Warframe Ability Rework] Limbo Cataclysm

[Joe_Barbarian]

I've made my way to the forums today to talk about Limbo and his Cataclysm. I'm sure that others have either experienced or been the perpetrator of what's about to be mentioned.

During a sortie a few days ago where the Ambulas was the final mission, there was a Limbo who abused his 4th to lock out other players from being able to hack the Ambulas. For the record this thing has happened to me personally a few times but this time was done by a MR 24+ player. Either this player was seriously ignorant of what was going on (despite chat asking him to turn it off a few times) Or they just wanted to mess with us.

My ideas on fixing this issue:
1) Delete Limbo from the game. (This is a joke, just in case others haven't caught onto it yet) 
2) Terminals deploy a small nullified shield that can't be taken down that disable specific abilities. Abilities that are primarily used to troll such as above mentioned.

Naturally my preferred option would be just to delete him as it'll be easier on the developers to implement such a thing but if players are insistent on keeping Limbo then option two may be more appealing, I'm sure DE would love other ideas to solve this issue so lets discuss.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Joe_Barbarian

[AccessibleGamer]

naturally, I think deleting limbo from the game is a bit drastic, but I'm sure it's possible to alter the things that people can do while within it.

right?

[GlitchedVision0101]

I completely agree with changing cataclysm to enable hacking/activating terminals/consoles, but there's one downside. using this tactic can make the person doing the hacking completely immune from all damage. this would be a nice interaction and give Limbo more versitility, however, the negative connotations in the community surrounding Limbo and his abilities being used so heavily to troll other players may prevent this new use from gaining traction.

[mactrent]

4 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Terminals deploy a small nullified shield that can't be taken down that disable specific abilities. Abilities that are primarily used to troll such as above mentioned.

I'm surprised the Operator hack (yes, I think we all know operators can't go in the Rift by now) wasn't mentioned yet, but you're right - just because people who happen to have completed TWW can switch to star-child mode to hack something does not mean it's okay to prevent everyone else from doing so, to say nothing of the annoyance factor.  Some function like this, where any frame can initiate the hack and then be treated as in the material plane until its completion, makes a ton of sense to solve this in a balanced way.

Edit: To be clear, my suggestion is: don't take away the Interact button when in the Rift, but have that button bring you out of the Rift for as long as the interaction takes, just as if you were in Operator mode but not Void mode.  Void mode would still be the safest way to do it, just as now; it just wouldn't be the only way.  No other ability disables terminals for teammates, but any future ones that got added (why?) could keep that as the rule going forward.

Edited July 28, 2018 by mactrent

[peterc3]

3 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

1) Delete Limbo from the game.

This isn't going to happen. Legitimately never going to even be considered by the devs.

3 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

 2) Terminals deploy a small nullified shield that can't be taken down that disable specific abilities. Abilities that are primarily used to troll such as above mentioned.

This would be universal, not limited to certain frames, and the majority of the player base would hate it.

Do you have any actual ideas or is this a rant that everyone can ignore?

[(PSN)Jack_Noir__]

3 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

My ideas on fixing this issue:
1) Delete Limbo from the game.

So...are you kidding?

If not, just delete this

[Joe_Barbarian]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

Do you have any actual ideas or is this a rant that everyone can ignore?

Well I gave two legitimate opinions on the matter, after the witticism DE put into Ordis they should expect some back. Also I'm certain that you don't speak for everyone as well.

On the other hand I mentioned at the end of my original post "I'm sure DE would love other ideas to solve this issue so lets discuss."

[Julian_Skies]

To be honest the best solution to this is "use operator mode", this still allows you to have your team invincible while hacking while giving a very small weak spot (running out of void energy). Remember the operators are meant to give you extra tools that you always have access to.

[Joe_Barbarian]

5 minutes ago, Julian_Skies said:

To be honest the best solution to this is "use operator mode", this still allows you to have your team invincible while hacking while giving a very small weak spot (running out of void energy). Remember the operators are meant to give you extra tools that you always have access to.

As mentioned below by mactrent, players could use Operator to hack inside of Limbos cataclysm however that would require players to firstly have "The War Within" quest line completed as well as knowing that this is possible.
 

Should the work around to getting trolled really be locked out to 1) Player knowledge and 2) Player Progress? The answer is surely no.

2 hours ago, mactrent said:

I'm surprised the Operator hack (yes, I think we all know operators can't go in the Rift by now) wasn't mentioned yet, but you're right - just because people who happen to have completed TWW can switch to star-child mode to hack something does not mean it's okay to prevent everyone else from doing so, to say nothing of the annoyance factor.  Some function like this, where any frame can initiate the hack and then be treated as in the material plane until its completion, makes a ton of sense to solve this in a balanced way.

 

[(PSN)gta4biosmka]

hace 20 horas, Joe_Barbarian dijo:

1) Delete Limbo from the game.
 

Joke of the year ☝️

[Joe_Barbarian]

For such a "Friendly" and "Helpful" community, there is a bit of selective reading going on. I have to say I'm very disappointed seeing players unable to take some witticism and essentially support the ability to troll newer players.

[Paradoxbomb]

Kind of a misleading thread title; there's no proposition of a rework, just a recommendation to outright remove Limbo from the game or to add some kind of anti-troll measure to consoles. Although you have the right idea with the second one, changing Cataclysm so that it doesn't prevent players from interacting with certain objects (ie. Ambulas' console) would probably be the most simple (and level-headed) course of action.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Paradoxbomb

[sati44]

23 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

My ideas on fixing this issue:
1) Delete Limbo from the game.

You are making a big impact of the forums with ideas like this one. The human mind is a thing of wonder I say.

[Loza03]

36 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

For such a "Friendly" and "Helpful" community, there is a bit of selective reading going on. I have to say I'm very disappointed seeing players unable to take some witticism and essentially support the ability to troll newer players.

 

23 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Naturally my preferred option would be just to delete him as it'll be easier on the developers to implement such a thing but if players are insistent on keeping Limbo then option two may be more appealing, I'm sure DE would love other ideas to solve this issue so lets discuss.

That's not a witticism. You literally say you would prefer he was deleted, and that it would be the better option. A lot of players like Limbo. Given your reasoning "It would be the easier option for the devs" you're basically indirectly calling everyone who likes Limbo and wants to keep him an A****** for making the devs work harder. Actually, given the "Essentially support the ability to troll newer players" , you're directly insulting them.

It also would not be the easiest and best option. People have put money, forma and effort into Limbo, over the period of nearly four years he's been in the game for. A lot of people really, truly love the frame, avoid harming other player's experiences as much as possible and might well quit the game if he was removed. Myself included. This action would have consequences that DE would need to work very hard to minimise. It's not the easiest option in the slightest. It would cost effort and a lot of money, both in refunds and in developing an alternative that convinces people who have been hurt by the change to stay.

In short, you weren't making 'some witticism', you were being unfriendly, and then when you got called out, you both doubled down on it and shifted the blame to everyone else.

[Joe_Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

 

That's not a witticism. You literally say you would prefer he was deleted, and that it would be the better option. A lot of players like Limbo. Given your reasoning "It would be the easier option for the devs" you're basically indirectly calling everyone who likes Limbo and wants to keep him an A****** for making the devs work harder. Actually, given the "Essentially support the ability to troll newer players" , you're directly insulting them.

It also would not be the easiest and best option. People have put money, forma and effort into Limbo, over the period of nearly four years he's been in the game for. A lot of people really, truly love the frame, avoid harming other player's experiences as much as possible and might well quit the game if he was removed. Myself included. This action would have consequences that DE would need to work very hard to minimise. It's not the easiest option in the slightest. It would cost effort and a lot of money, both in refunds and in developing an alternative that convinces people who have been hurt by the change to stay.

In short, you weren't making 'some witticism', you were being unfriendly, and then when you got called out, you both doubled down on it and shifted the blame to everyone else.

Since when were people not allowed to have their own opinions? There wasn't a claim at all that it would be the better option just stated it as an opinion. Continuing on from your assumptions, why would I suggest and then encourage a discussion on possible work around to the issue at hand if your assumption of my supposed indirect vulgar language.

Correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't deleting code be easier than discussing, balancing, editing, testing and then implementing it? So there was not some kind of indirect insult but an actual matter of fact. You're also forgetting that DE wouldn't have to develop or replace any kind of alternative as it is their game at the end of the day, would there be repercussions, of course. Remember it's a case of can they (yes they can) and will they (certainly not) next best thing would be discuss it.

TLDR: I only offered my opinion and ideas. There was no recommendation or some kind of veiled insult. If either my opinion or ideas offended you then I could offer you an apology if you so desired

Edited July 28, 2018 by Joe_Barbarian

[Stygie]

No what he is saying is that. You are think about this in a static thought as in what would be the easiest way hut you arent thinking of the braching possibilities. I think it rash to say delete warframe but i do agree it would nice to stop the trolls who use a frame i love, limbo,to mess with people. But. This is why we have report buttons to try and get these people out of our games. I find it odd that in such a diverse game build around teamwork, peoppe have a hard time doing that in excution. The fact of the matter is this. Every frame can troll and every frame can be great. Look at the player not the warframe to put a spin on the traditional saying

[Joe_Barbarian]

1 minute ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

No what he is saying is that. You are think about this in a static thought as in what would be the easiest way hut you arent thinking of the braching possibilities. I think it rash to say delete warframe but i do agree it would nice to stop the trolls who use a frame i love, limbo,to mess with people. But. This is why we have report buttons to try and get these people out of our games. I find it odd that in such a diverse game build around teamwork, peoppe have a hard time doing that in excution. The fact of the matter is this. Every frame can troll and every frame can be great. Look at the player not the warframe to put a spin on the traditional saying

The issue at hand here is that Limbos Cataclysm can fail missions just by claiming ignorance. You are right about every frame can troll but those malicious actions are more clear cut. Just throwing out examples of "genuine mistakes"

• Language Barrier
• Not fully understanding the ability
• Couldn't see chat
• Didn't think the team was talking about me
• The team can just go into operator to hack

There is a work around that I wasn't even aware of by going into operator mode to hack the terminal until I made this post. However isn't that in itself broken? Being outside of Cataclysm while it's going on around you... That along side the fact that to bypass this troll is locked behind player progression and even knowledge of being able to use the operator.

I don't play Limbo as I'm not a fan of his play style, hence coming to the forums to discuss this matter.

[Aisu9]

or just... use your undying operator in void mod for hacking ? super hard to do that boi, mr30 only

Edited July 28, 2018 by Aisu9

[Joe_Barbarian]

Just now, Aisu9 said:

or just... use your undying operator in void mod for hacking ? super hard to do that boi

As it's already been mentioned. 

1 hour ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Isn't that in itself broken? Being outside of Cataclysm while it's going on around you... That along side the fact that to bypass this troll is locked behind player progression and even knowledge of being able to use the operator.

 

2 minutes ago, Aisu9 said:

super hard to do that boi

Apparently so is reading

[Sleiys]

By far this post is the best serious lets fix something, and through in a bit of trolling, troll post ever.  +10 Goon points for Trolling.

[Loza03]

36 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Since when were people not allowed to have their own opinions? There wasn't a claim at all that it would be the better option just stated it as an opinion. Continuing on from your assumptions, why would I suggest and then encourage a discussion on possible work around to the issue at hand if your assumption of my supposed indirect vulgar language.

Correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't deleting code be easier than discussing, balancing, editing, testing and then implementing it? So there was not some kind of indirect insult but an actual matter of fact. You're also forgetting that DE wouldn't have to develop or replace any kind of alternative as it is their game at the end of the game, would their be repercussions, of course. Remember it's a case of can they (yes they can) and will they (certainly not) next best thing would be discuss it.

TLDR: I only offered my opinion and ideas. There was no recommendation or some kind of veiled insult. If either my opinion or ideas offended you then I could offer you an apology if you so desired

People are allowed to have their own opinions. This does not mean people are not allowed to disagree with you, or call you out for any offense cast when expressing that opinion. And you did, in fact, claim it was the better option. You said it was the easier option, and thus inferred that the other option was more difficult, and thus less desirable. As for why you might suggest it, I can speculate all day, ranging from an honest mistake to intentionally adding it as an alibi so you couldn't be accused of just ranting. But I'm not here to speculate, I'm here to simply say you were being rude. And, since you either inferred that people insisting on keeping him would add more work to DE (which, I'm sure you can agree) or just straight accused them of supporting troll playstyles, yes, you were insulting other people by calling them inconsiderate. Or, as I put it, as A******s. Because supporting troll playstyles and adding to people's workload when they already have a lot of work to do (Fortuna, Garuda, Railjack, Revenant etc.) are things that most people would consider to be selfish, and otherwise dislikeable actions. And neither is a result of liking and playing , and wanting to keep him in the game.

I've skipped explaining why deleting Limbo would be more work, because it just bloats the whole post. If you want to see it, I'll oblige.

Anyway, regardless of whether or not the insults were intentional, they were made. And you did, in fact, make a recommendation. Endorsing something by saying "I want this" is a recommendation. You said "I would prefer [that Limbo be removed]", which is you endorsing that course of action.

Having said that, what caused my reaction was the fact you genuinely complained that people were commenting on only one of your two legitimate opinions, and mostly negatively and then basically say that people responding to it were supporting trolls. That's not on, and it caused me to see your original post in a different, more negative light. Reacting to people criticising your views by accusing them of something (which most people would think of as an insult) is what led to my reaction. 

 

All that aside, I do agree that Limbo's rift as a whole does need to be adjusted. A nullification field is a bit extreme, but putting people outside the rift might serve. Honestly, Tenno interactions with the rift should be looked at more deeply than they have been.

[Joe_Barbarian]

12 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

People are allowed to have their own opinions. This does not mean people are not allowed to disagree with you, or call you out for any offense cast when expressing that opinion. And you did, in fact, claim it was the better option. You said it was the easier option, and thus inferred that the other option was more difficult, and thus less desirable. As for why you might suggest it, I can speculate all day, ranging from an honest mistake to intentionally adding it as an alibi so you couldn't be accused of just ranting. But I'm not here to speculate, I'm here to simply say you were being rude. And, since you either inferred that people insisting on keeping him would add more work to DE (which, I'm sure you can agree) or just straight accused them of supporting troll playstyles, yes, you were insulting other people by calling them inconsiderate. Or, as I put it, as A******s. Because supporting troll playstyles and adding to people's workload when they already have a lot of work to do (Fortuna, Garuda, Railjack, Revenant etc.) are things that most people would consider to be selfish, and otherwise dislikeable actions. And neither is a result of liking and playing , and wanting to keep him in the game.

I've skipped explaining why deleting Limbo would be more work, because it just bloats the whole post. If you want to see it, I'll oblige.

Anyway, regardless of whether or not the insults were intentional, they were made. And you did, in fact, make a recommendation. Endorsing something by saying "I want this" is a recommendation. You said "I would prefer [that Limbo be removed]", which is you endorsing that course of action.

Having said that, what caused my reaction was the fact you genuinely complained that people were commenting on only one of your two legitimate opinions, and mostly negatively and then basically say that people responding to it were supporting trolls. That's not on, and it caused me to see your original post in a different, more negative light. Reacting to people criticising your views by accusing them of something (which most people would think of as an insult) is what led to my reaction. 

 

All that aside, I do agree that Limbo's rift as a whole does need to be adjusted. A nullification field is a bit extreme, but putting people outside the rift might serve. Honestly, Tenno interactions with the rift should be looked at more deeply than they have been.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or being serious at this point, with the amount of energy you're putting into your post. Allow me to just address some things. Trying to call me out for calling people A*holes when it's what you have claimed that i'm being inconsiderate. When you're in fact being rude and impolite by making assumptions and then trying to twist other players words into your own. If you're going to comment on my post(s) please use direct quotes instead of twisting my words.

All because you didn't get the joke used doesn't mean other players won't. I will take this time to thank you personally for going out of your way to derail this thread by focusing on what flew right over your head instead of actually focusing the matter at hand. From one Tenno to another, look up once in a while. 

 

[Loza03]

2 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

I'm not sure if you're trolling or being serious at this point, with the amount of energy you're putting into your post. Allow me to just address some things. Trying to call me out for calling people A*holes when it's what you have claimed that i'm being inconsiderate. When you're in fact being rude and impolite by making assumptions and then trying to twist other players words into your own. If you're going to comment on my post(s) please use direct quotes instead of twisting my words.

All because you didn't get the joke used doesn't mean other players won't. I will take this time to thank you personally for going out of your way to derail this thread by focusing on what flew right over your head instead of actually focusing the matter at hand. From one Tenno to another, look up once in a while. 

 

I am being serious. How is 

On ‎2018‎-‎07‎-‎27 at 9:08 PM, Joe_Barbarian said:

it'll be easier on the developers to implement such a thing but if players are insistent on keeping Limbo

Not implying that "selfish players are putting more work on DE"? 

How is

4 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

For such a "Friendly" and "Helpful" community, there is a bit of selective reading going on. I have to say I'm very disappointed seeing players unable to take some witticism and essentially support the ability to troll newer players. 

Not implying that people looking at your opinions and disagreeing with them are supporting trolling?

How is 

On ‎2018‎-‎07‎-‎27 at 9:08 PM, Joe_Barbarian said:

My ideas on fixing this issue:
1) Delete Limbo from the game. (This is a joke, just in case others haven't caught onto it yet) 
2) Terminals deploy a small nullified shield that can't be taken down that disable specific abilities. Abilities that are primarily used to troll such as above mentioned.

Naturally my preferred option would be just to delete him as it'll be easier on the developers to implement such a thing but if players are insistent on keeping Limbo then option two may be more appealing, I'm sure DE would love other ideas to solve this issue so lets discuss.

Supposed to be taken as anything but your genuine opinion, (as opposed to a witticism) particularly when you have stated as such?

23 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Well I gave two legitimate opinions on the matte

Here you say that you gave two legitimate opinions, and the only instance of paired opinions is those two opinions?

[Joe_Barbarian]

As I've already said, you've done enough to derail this thread, your comments would be best served in a private message.

[Loza03]

4 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

As I've already said, you've done enough to derail this thread, your comments would be best served in a private message.

I assume from your lack of response the conversation's over? Fair enough.

Either way, you're right. I'm sorry for derailing the thread. Regardless of my opinion of the validity of it's claims and the manner it was conducted, I was overreacting. I'll go.