Nezha: A little update would be nice

[dan.io.wal]

With Nezha's deluxe skin incoming (ahem I need it now) I feel like it's about time that his kit was looked at. I'll preface this by saying that I love nezha. I love him dearly. He's my most played frame in game, and to me he's one of the most fun frames to play in the game. That being said there are a few things I've noticed over the last two years that could really use a touch up.

1. Casting animations are much too slow. I've been wanting this since I first started playing Nezha. Nezha's fast. That's his schtick. Only time I ever die or need reviving is when I'm recasting warding halo. 

2. Speaking of warding halo I would love to see a small synergy between Blazing Chakram and Warding Halo. One of my biggest gripes with Warding Halo is that it can't be recast until it's destroyed. My suggestion? Create a synergy where if your health is full, and your warding halo is still up but damaged, allow blazing chakram to be used to replenish/recharge your halo. This would not only fix the main issue with warding halo, but give blazing chakram more utility. I don't know many people who actually realize that the chakram can be used to heal, and that's actually really sad. 

3. Divine Spears is the weakest part of Nezha's kit by a long shot. The fact that Ancients completely screw you over and disable all usability alone makes it nearly useless vs the infested and sometimes in fissure missions. In the story/lore of Ne Zha, he has a flaming spear. Maybe apply a burn affect to the spears, as well as the ground/area around it the spears. Any enemies that walk into the aoe will have a 100% chance to be staggered by fire and take burn damage, allowing for a little more damage but more crowd control as well.

4. Maybe just increase the overall width of firewalker? That would be a nice little change.

 

Let me know what you guys would think of these changes. I really love this frame and I just want to see him become even better. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by dan.io.wal

[TrinXT]

Agree with the Chakram/Halo heal and I think they should also make it so that Firewalker doesn't turn itself off after you teleport with Chakram.

I want to spam the fire blast it causes but it's pretty annoying to do that when you have to turn Firewalker back on after every teleport. It not only increases the energy cost because you have to turn Firewalker back on every time but it also slows down the rate that you can deal damage and slows your movement by the time it takes to re-activate Firewalker.

[Azvalk]

Some ideas for improving Nezha can be found here:

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Azvalk

[(PSN)RockstarJungle]

7 hours ago, dan.io.wal said:

With Nezha's deluxe skin incoming (ahem I need it now) I feel like it's about time that his kit was looked at. I'll preface this by saying that I love nezha. I love him dearly. He's my most played frame in game, and to me he's one of the most fun frames to play in the game. That being said there are a few things I've noticed over the last two years that could really use a touch up.

1. Casting animations are much too slow. I've been wanting this since I first started playing Nezha. Nezha's fast. That's his schtick. Only time I ever die or need reviving is when I'm recasting warding halo. 

2. Speaking of warding halo I would love to see a small synergy between Blazing Chakram and Warding Halo. One of my biggest gripes with Warding Halo is that it can't be recast until it's destroyed. My suggestion? Create a synergy where if your health is full, and your warding halo is still up but damaged, allow blazing chakram to be used to replenish/recharge your halo. This would not only fix the main issue with warding halo, but give blazing chakram more utility. I don't know many people who actually realize that the chakram can be used to heal, and that's actually really sad. 

3. Divine Spears is the weakest part of Nezha's kit by a long shot. The fact that Ancients completely screw you over and disable all usability alone makes it nearly useless vs the infested and sometimes in fissure missions. In the story/lore of Ne Zha, he has a flaming spear. Maybe apply a burn affect to the spears, as well as the ground/area around it the spears. Any enemies that walk into the aoe will have a 100% chance to be staggered by fire and take burn damage, allowing for a little more damage but more crowd control as well.

4. Maybe just increase the overall width of firewalker? That would be a nice little change.

 

Let me know what you guys would think of these changes. I really love this frame and I just want to see him become even better. 

Is there anything at all, info or screens about his new deluxe skin coming? It's so unfair that the nidus frame was released like a year ago and he's already not only have a deluxe skin, But has it released before nezha's. A frame thats been there since like 2015. All because of popularity. Its messed up. 

Also about the abilities, The way i got my nezha built~for fun alone, The idea of using a online build by some know-it-all makes me want to throw up. lol, anyways i think it was a while when i wanted nezha to have a buff to his skills, But after coming back to warframe about a month now, i noticed that he's a running apocalypse. Or a best kept secret. With no riven mods, and only one prime mod, my nezha deals more than pretty much anyone in squad and takes no more than 5% of the entire damage in survivals. With riven mods/prime weapons equipped i think my nezha could probably do 2 hours in survival by himself with no camping. But that's cause i specifically buy everything for nezha and dont play any other frame. Point im trying to make is, He is already strong by himself and with mods he's extremely strong As is. But to players who just starting out or just trying him out, and dont know....or basically if hes not your main, You are in for a world of hurt. Generally speaking of course.

Being that he's my only frame i use or ever cared about. I would not mind any of the upgrades you described, they were very well thought out.

[Azvalk]

Of course he's already very good at the moment, I am also doing the best mission score every time I use him, but the damage comes mostly from my weapons.
To explain it simply..
When I use the 1, I have the impression to make me drain my energy for not much, and when I use the 4, indeed, I control massively the ennemies and can easily kill them in some shots, but the 4 himself only kills weak enemies, and makes laugh the bigger ones, they don't even lose half of their health away. And it's just a shame, because he is great to play.
I heard somewhere, that if each warframe were of a particular sex, and that there was no choice, it was for some reasons, and so the devs were aiming to have a male warframe and a female one on a theme.
On the theme of fire, Ember is the female, and Nezha is the male.
And Ember... really makes fire everywhere, and has been so powerful that she has been nerfed..
So, it would only be logical, and justice, to increase the power and the fun of Nezha a little, by all these little ideas of synergy of his powers. ^^

[(PSN)RockstarJungle]

53 minutes ago, Azvalk said:

Of course he's already very good at the moment, I am also doing the best mission score every time I use him, but the damage comes mostly from my weapons.
To explain it simply..
When I use the 1, I have the impression to make me drain my energy for not much, and when I use the 4, indeed, I control massively the ennemies and can easily kill them in some shots, but the 4 himself only kills weak enemies, and makes laugh the bigger ones, they don't even lose half of their health away. And it's just a shame, because he is great to play.
I heard somewhere, that if each warframe were of a particular sex, and that there was no choice, it was for some reasons, and so the devs were aiming to have a male warframe and a female one on a theme.
On the theme of fire, Ember is the female, and Nezha is the male.
And Ember... really makes fire everywhere, and has been so powerful that she has been nerfed..
So, it would only be logical, and justice, to increase the power and the fun of Nezha a little, by all these little ideas of synergy of his powers. ^^

My spikes when i press them Kills everything. However that's only because i can spam them right after i take them down. So i overpower the battlefield radius with my spears, Thats not due to a "maximization build" from someone else, But from Nezhas own two feet. I make spikes Everywhere. The stats i was talking about earlier, I dont use a primary at all. Just pistols and a melee. 

But the thing that gets everyone with nezha (In my opinion) is that he isnt their only frame. So when they first start playing, they go online,  and type "best warframe and best build, best weapons ect" So they end up buying things for (lets use nidus in this example) and it's two things wrong with that if they switch to nezha and expect somewhat similar results and what worked for nidus/harrow/ash/frost prime will work for nezha as well. What i noticed about nezha, as someone already said in the forums before that- He isnt a tank, hes not a healer, hes not a DD, he's just....nezha. What i took from that was probably more than what they meant it to me. But I personally dont think any known builds out there will work for nezha. (That's just a guess) But what will work is a devotion to the frame, meaning you buy him the Best mods, best ect.. basically play how you want to play making survival be the main objective. Nezha, or any frame for that matter doesnt deal anything while he's bleeding out or dead. Think about what mods will benefit Nezha's skills and Nezhas skills only if you want to main nezha, Is my observation. 

 

Sorry for the rambling on. I just felt like adding to the thread if anyone looks in the future XD

[dan.io.wal]

9 hours ago, Azvalk said:

Some ideas for improving Nezha can be found here:

 

oh damn lol, I didn't see that post XD but I'm glad that I'm not the only one who wants his kit to be better 🙂 ❤️

[TrinXT]

16 hours ago, (PS4)RockstarJungle said:

Is there anything at all, info or screens about his new deluxe skin coming? It's so unfair that the nidus frame was released like a year ago and he's already not only have a deluxe skin, But has it released before nezha's. A frame thats been there since like 2015. All because of popularity. Its messed up. 

I read this as a Zephyr fan whose deluxe was announced in devstream 67 (22nd Jan. 2016), before Nidus, Octavia and Inaros even existed and they all have their deluxe now with many other frames whose deluxe was announced after Zephyr's still getting their deluxe released first and now we're at something like devstream 115, 10 or so devstreams after Nezha's was announced (26th Jan. this year.)

and after reading that last line I'm just like.. ikr? 

[Enno69]

My two cents for qol changes :

- Double his base health

- Allow his chakram to heal the halo, as OP suggested

- Let WH be recastable on self - not dissipated and reapplied like Rhino's skin with the augment, just refreshed.

- Give it a special feature : once WH has been stripped away by your opponents' attacks, it unleashes a radial shockwave that deals little damage but knocks down everyone around you. Kinda like the Tech Armor skill from Mass Effect 2.

- For the spears, remove the imo useless deactivation mechanic (all it does is inflict some additional damage, and that doesn't scale) ; instead let DS be recastable, though with a limit to keep it balanced - only two/three instances of this skill can be active at the same time.

[(PSN)RockstarJungle]

1 hour ago, Enno69 said:

 

- For the spears, remove the imo useless deactivation mechanic (all it does is inflict some additional damage, and that doesn't scale) ; instead let DS be recastable, though with a limit to keep it balanced - only two/three instances of this skill can be active at the same time.

So thats what it was. I thought it was weird that the slam damage was doing like 2k, and the spears of mine was doing much more. i see now. However i think they should keep the deactivate. If you notice, he has his own deactivation animation and it's a small thing but it still kinda adds to his playful facade role. It's might be just me, but i'd take in dept character development over Mindless damage from a frame any day. So if the choices were, Take out completely and Buff his damage, or buff damage to be a 2 stage attack, or leave as is. I'd take the last two options. But like i said, that's just me. 

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Chakram healing pulses heal Warding halo. limited to the base on cast value of the halo as modified by mods.

Divine spears, Range is halfed. is now a constant aura that lasts the full duration of spears that spears enemies that come into range. Think World on fire but a single hit that CCs untill you force slam the enemies or the duration expires. no range limit on how far you get from a speared target.

 

 

these are my spitball ideas.

[Sasuda]

My Nezha tweak list remains the same. Side Note Ancients only screw you over when you are within their range. You can outrange them to ignore it or ignore range in favour of a better Firewalker. Both build work. I'm not saying that it's ok that ancients do this, that should be changed. Doubling up nully effects isn't cool.

On 2018-07-15 at 9:32 PM, Sasuda said:

Here's what my latest revision to Nezha would look like:

Firewalker

• Needs the path width to be affected by ability range. Especially his augment.
• Have more base duration and range (double distance and width affected by ability range) as well.
  Augment: Pryoclastic Flow
• Potentially Augment could be made easier to aim through a hold to preview path (I really would like being able to bend the path by moving reticle without turning Nezha while the button is held down.)
• Built-up damage retained though re-absorption of a percentage of what was kicked
• Auto-kick when out of energy
  • or at least retain build-up (even with a drain over time or an energy cost to recast)

As for Nezha's Blazing Chakram it does need improving. It's easily his least useful ability. It's usable but very rarely useful. Each of it's elements could be improved

• Healing Warding Halo would be great and would make the current augment worthwhile
  • Even if only through an augment to replace the current one.
• For movement and teleport to be useful Blazing Chakram needs to have it's flightspeed and throw range boosted by ability range
• Be 1-handed with way faster cast speed
• Retain momentum from before teleporting.
• Bigger explosion radius that is Range moddable and no turning off Firewalker.  
• At least 50m range heal on base.
  • Heal over time would be better range could still be like 20m. Requires too much setup to have so little range for healing and so little range for damage.
• Better identification of targets who've been struck beyond enemies being on fire needs to happen.
• Augment: Reaping Chakram
• The Current Augment could be built in.
• Alternative could be an Augment that has chance to drop Health and Energy orbs for a different support role
• Could be just and augment to heal Warding Halo

Warding Halo

• Could use 2 more seconds on invulnerability period, and Damage absorption should begin instantly on cast not after long animation. 
• Optionally: Give it a decast animation with some vulnerability instead so it's recastable.
• Range mods should have double the effect on his stun/slash halo.
• Stun halo radius or damage further boosted with Firewalker.
• Divine Spears receives a damage boost but it could add a status effect so its more worthwhile

Divine Spears

• Shouldn't be like a status effect so it's not destroyed by Ancient healers absorbing every single spear,
• 1-hand casting
  • And or 1 starting animation not 2 animations one at start and one at finish,
• Pin flying enemies to the ground
• Have damage synergies with his other abilities.
  • BC does mini-explosions on pinned enemies, or finisher damage
  • Firewalker damage applies (possibly as finisher damage)
  • WH actually already gets a small bonus but add the status from the slash damage. 
• Any damage done to the spears also damages the target. Or opens up enemies to finishers and finisher damage.
   

It's a long list but relatively small basic changes that would make him more diverse in builds and playstyles. Currently he's really good. He could just be made to perform better in higher level situations. He's a little too dependent on weapon setups to reach his potential. Cast speed overall hinders him quite significantly and all should be faster to keep up with Nezha's speed.

It's all pretty simple, I prefer to boost Warding Halo's stun capacity for it's survivability personally. I'm in favour of using range to affect him more because it's gives more build diversity, but to be clear I think all his abilities need a range they can't go below. As in the path for Firewalker should only be able to be made wider not narrower than it is, and the distance & speed Blazing Chakram flies should also only increase. Make the teleport an actual usable teleport.

Spears should always pin to the ground, so flying enemies aren't sitting in the air as Nezha can only use Divine Spears or BC on flying enemies and BC hitting flying enemies is cool, but too low of damage or CC to do much making flying enemies a bit of a weak point. This would allow Firewalker + Divine Spears to be a great combo.

Here's some more Nezha threads that I've come across
 

Spoiler

 

On 2018-07-15 at 9:32 PM, Sasuda said:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/904394-new-nezha-augment-ideas-and-ability-tweaks/?tab=comments#comment-9370640

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/920522-nezha-qol-tweaks-to-all-his-abilities-please-give-feedback/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-9686676

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/945731-outdated-frames-nezha-edition/?page=3

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/954009-nezha-buffs-and-changes/?tab=comments#comment-9746923

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/890790-nezha-potential-2nd-augment-idea/?tab=comments#comment-9274654

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/946573-ne-zha-exalted-divine-spear-rework/?tab=comments#comment-9686633

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/942018-so-nezha-is-a-problem-a-nezha-revisit/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-9657291

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/912943-sk8terboi-nezha-tweaks/?tab=comments#comment-9288339

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/962155-warframe-rework-concept-nezha-sliding-striker-style-specializing-nezha-as-the-throwing-melee-warframe-with-charkams-and-a-new-divine-spear/?tab=comments#comment-9819805

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/983407-nezha-rework-concept-discount-rhino-no-more-edition/?tab=comments#comment-9973728

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Sasuda

[Enno69]

Il y a 14 heures, (PS4)RockstarJungle a dit :

So thats what it was. I thought it was weird that the slam damage was doing like 2k, and the spears of mine was doing much more. i see now. However i think they should keep the deactivate. If you notice, he has his own deactivation animation and it's a small thing but it still kinda adds to his playful facade role. It's might be just me, but i'd take in dept character development over Mindless damage from a frame any day. So if the choices were, Take out completely and Buff his damage, or buff damage to be a 2 stage attack, or leave as is. I'd take the last two options. But like i said, that's just me. 

I understand you and I fully agree about character dev vs damage - especially since as we know direct-damage dealing abilities are the least useful of all, because as I already said their scaling is finite. To be fair I'd be fine with DS not doing any damage if the cc aspect was improved ; for ex, recastable ability, a special after-effect that slows down opponents for xx seconds upon deactivation, etc. There are many options more interesting and fun that just "deals damage on cast and then deals more damage when the effect ends".

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

I don't like nezha's shoes? 

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

Nothing in his kit really synergies well. Why give a self heal to a guy who can cast a shield?

I love the idea of a chakram but since it's clanky I don't use it. Chakram is one of those abilities that might be better as an exaulted weapon.

I never saw a need to teleport because parkour is a thing and easier to accomplish. 

Impale looks awesome, doesn't fit or always work.

Poor Nezha is a victim of identity crisis... He just doesn't know who he is or who he's trying to be. Hell most new players still think he's a girl. If you're gonna change Nezha, you need to redefine what Nezha is.

I'm thinking loki, but with fire and a chakram. Like a pyro maniac. 

His first ability 

Living bomb- he curses an enemy with living fire that has a chance to spread to enemies nearby.

2nd

Inhale- Nezha cosumes all burning procs currently active (enemies and allies) and converts damage into health for himself and allies.

3rd

Smoke form- Nezha becomes smoke. Can't attack or be harmed but, enemies he passes through suffer true damage (think hydroids puddle) as smoke inhalation.

4th

Exaulted Chakram- channeld ability. He leaves a trail of flame in his wake. The chakram does the same and functions exactly like a glaive. Can be dual wielded, etc.

 

 

[Atsia]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GhostofaMessiah said:

Nothing in his kit really synergies well. Why give a self heal to a guy who can cast a shield?

I love the idea of a chakram but since it's clanky I don't use it. Chakram is one of those abilities that might be better as an exaulted weapon.

I never saw a need to teleport because parkour is a thing and easier to accomplish. 

Impale looks awesome, doesn't fit or always work.

Poor Nezha is a victim of identity crisis... He just doesn't know who he is or who he's trying to be. Hell most new players still think he's a girl. If you're gonna change Nezha, you need to redefine what Nezha is.

I'm thinking loki, but with fire and a chakram. Like a pyro maniac. 

His first ability 

Living bomb- he curses an enemy with living fire that has a chance to spread to enemies nearby.

2nd

Inhale- Nezha cosumes all burning procs currently active (enemies and allies) and converts damage into health for himself and allies.

3rd

Smoke form- Nezha becomes smoke. Can't attack or be harmed but, enemies he passes through suffer true damage (think hydroids puddle) as smoke inhalation.

4th

Exaulted Chakram- channeld ability. He leaves a trail of flame in his wake. The chakram does the same and functions exactly like a glaive. Can be dual wielded, etc.

 

 

Yeah no, that's nothing like Nezha. Like, at all. His kit is entirely based around his mythos, this is a completely different, plus he doesn't need a #*!%ING exalted weapon

[dan.io.wal]

7 hours ago, Atsia said:

Yeah no, that's nothing like Nezha. Like, at all. His kit is entirely based around his mythos, this is a completely different, plus he doesn't need a #*!%ING exalted weapon

Yeah, I agree. I really don't want Nezha to have an exalted weapon. I enjoy the pieces of his kit, but they just really need a buff, or small rework

[(PSN)JimsonWeeder]

On 2018-08-06 at 1:03 PM, Azvalk said:

Some ideas for improving Nezha can be found here:

 

Heyyyyy

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

Nezha doesn't suck ..

He's actually the best frame...

... Besides all the other ones.

-Winston Churchill

[dan.io.wal]

8 hours ago, (PS4)JimsonWeeder said:

Heyyyyy

I felt a little silly after I saw your page haha. I don't come on the forums too often. I'm glad to see that you and I are in agreement on a couple things that need to be upgraded with Nezha ❤️

[dan.io.wal]

Overall, what do you guys think could possibly be updated concering Nezha's 4th? That's my main problem with his kit overall honestly. I never use it except for a quick room clear on lower level missions. 

[Atsia]

1 hour ago, dan.io.wal said:

Overall, what do you guys think could possibly be updated concering Nezha's 4th? That's my main problem with his kit overall honestly. I never use it except for a quick room clear on lower level missions. 

It's only real issue or casting time/ animations. It's already a solid ability that deals good damage.  If they either removed the second cast animation, or streamline it, then it'd be great.

[Atsia]

1 hour ago, dan.io.wal said:

Overall, what do you guys think could possibly be updated concering Nezha's 4th? That's my main problem with his kit overall honestly. I never use it except for a quick room clear on lower level missions. 

It's only real issue or casting time/ animations. It's already a solid ability that deals good damage.  If they either removed the second cast animation, or streamline it, then it'd be great.

[Azvalk]

what I do not like about his 4, it's not the end animation in itself, it's normal that it happens and that it marks a small pause in our movements, but it is that it cuts the reloading of our weapons, that's frustrating, especially on the long reload weapon like an arca plasmor, and also because we cast the 4 precisely to control the enemies around us and to reload our slow weapon...

The damages are good yes, but could be better..
And don't forget it's a 4, it has to be impressive, so, a synergy with the 1, to have the lances inflamed would be great.