How can I protect myself from fake plat?

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, novalery said:

Well that would either reduced the profit gain by DE or increased plat price since steam will also get a cut... also this would mean that others non steam warframe player would be in trouble. 

Well it all depends how much Steam takes as a cut. I wouldnt mind slightly higher prices so DE gets roughly the same if it means safer Platinum for us players. It is like paying for any type of security.

And not using Steam to play WF is simply an outdated mindset since the very early days of Steam when it had issues. Steam is already needed to utilize all WF related vanity items since tennogen is Steam only. And when it comes to updating/launching the game there are close to zero differences between the two clients. The minimal difference is the initial download through Steam, both still use the launcher in order to update and start the game after that. Also, there are already several things sold on Steam that are available on Warframe site aswell, like Prime Access.

We should aim for the option that is most easy to maintain and cost efficient for both DE and the community. Even if Steam would take a cut of plat sales it would likely be a cheaper solution for DE since they would never have to deal with any of the side effects that cost both time and money. All that would be solved by Valve or not needed to be solved at all.

[Worm4real]

Isn't this DE's job? 🤔

[(PSN)DeathDevourSouls]

Fake plat? WTF

[rune_me]

46 minutes ago, Worm4real said:

Isn't this DE's job? 🤔

Not really at all, no. If someone gives you fake money in real life and you try to pay with them at a restaurant, it's not the job of the restaurant owner to protect you or compensate you, since said owner had nothing to do with scamming or swindling you in the first place.

Now because it is all digital, DE could make tools and use log files to make life easier for those who get swindled, but have for various reasons chosen not to. Sure it would be nice if they did help out, but in no way is it their job.

[Letter13]

The best way to protect yourself from fraudulent platinum is to do the following:

• Do a little background checking into the player who's trading you the platinum. How new is their account? How much stuff have they unlocked? What's their mastery level? Users who make fraudulent purchases of platinum and then perform chargebacks will often use throwaway accounts, because they will get banned too (they use the throwaway account to 'ferry' the item to their legitimate account). If the account is not new and has considerable progress and effort put into it, it's a much more reliable source of platinum and less likely to be fraudulent.
• Sit on the platinum for a bit. If it is fraudulent platinum, then sitting on it for a while will protect you in the event it does get deducted. The amount that gets deducted will always be the amount of fraudulent platinum you received, so if you receive 2,000 platinum for a trade, make sure you have 2,000 or more platinum in your account for a while. Users who perform platinum fraud will usually force a chargeback quickly as they're not keen on spending real money.
• Keep a record of your trades, especially of your high-value trades. Screenshot the transaction and the user name. In the event that it is a fraudulent trade, having a record of who it was with and what was traded for will make recovery of the item(s) you traded for platinum much easier for support.
• And, as always, if you receive a large sum of platinum for an item, it never hurts to contact support to ask if they can double check and look into the transaction to make sure it's legitimate.

[(XBOX)FartMaster Alex]

(rune_me) The scenario you are trying to show here is not at all similar to what is actually being done in this situation. Cause instead of just receiving the fake currency, DE is also the one that handed out the fake currency. Of course they are responsible.

Edited August 13, 2018 by (XB1)FartMaster Alex

[rune_me]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)FartMaster Alex said:

(rune_me) The scenario you are trying to show here is not at all similar to what is actually being done in this situation. Cause instead of just receiving the fake currency, DE is also the one that handed out the fake currency. Of course they are responsible.

They did not hand out a fake currency. They handed out a real currency, which someone else then made "fake" by performing a chargeback for a product they actually received. 

There is no scenario where you will ever be able to legally hold DE responsible for that. That would be like holding a bank responsible because someone else forges money or robs a casino. 

[Worm4real]

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

Not really at all, no. If someone gives you fake money in real life and you try to pay with them at a restaurant, it's not the job of the restaurant owner to protect you or compensate you, since said owner had nothing to do with scamming or swindling you in the first place.

Now because it is all digital, DE could make tools and use log files to make life easier for those who get swindled, but have for various reasons chosen not to. Sure it would be nice if they did help out, but in no way is it their job.

Well the restaurant doesn't make the money, but the Government does and implementing controls and helping people get compensated when they are taken advantage of is their responsibility.

43 minutes ago, rune_me said:

There is no scenario where you will ever be able to legally hold DE responsible for that. That would be like holding a bank responsible because someone else forges money or robs a casino. 

A bank's money is generally federally insured so again, it's their responsibility to make sure their aren't taking or circulating counterfeit and stolen money.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Worm4real

[Jaemmat]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Well it all depends how much Steam takes as a cut. I wouldnt mind slightly higher prices so DE gets roughly the same if it means safer Platinum for us players. It is like paying for any type of security.

Approximately 30%. Depending on how much DE make on plat sales, this could really impact their revenue.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And not using Steam to play WF is simply an outdated mindset since the very early days of Steam when it had issues. Steam is already needed to utilize all WF related vanity items since tennogen is Steam only. And when it comes to updating/launching the game there are close to zero differences between the two clients. The minimal difference is the initial download through Steam, both still use the launcher in order to update and start the game after that. Also, there are already several things sold on Steam that are available on Warframe site aswell, like Prime Access.

I agree with you, but probably DE don't want to alienate those who still uses the standalone client.

[Sloan441]

22 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Don't trade high amounts to low MR players with dodgy names.

Beyond that, you can't. 

You can, but the first is good advice as far as it goes. 

The fundamental issue is you don't want to fall into a balance of negative platinum. So, buy a stake from the DE store. Get a base amount and never sell anything for more than you can lose from that stake. 

When you do sell, sit on that amount for a while. A couple of weeks is probably enough, but a month (the usual billing cycle) should cover it. Yes, you'll have to keep track of income and expenditures. Welcome to accounting. 

All that should insulate you from any bad behavior others might get up to--and that's what it really comes down to: minimizing your exposure to risk. The only way to truly prevent any risk of corrupted platinum is to not sell to other players. 

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

You can, but the first is good advice as far as it goes. 

The fundamental issue is you don't want to fall into a balance of negative platinum. So, buy a stake from the DE store. Get a base amount and never sell anything for more than you can lose from that stake. 

When you do sell, sit on that amount for a while. A couple of weeks is probably enough, but a month (the usual billing cycle) should cover it. Yes, you'll have to keep track of income and expenditures. Welcome to accounting. 

All that should insulate you from any bad behavior others might get up to--and that's what it really comes down to: minimizing your exposure to risk. The only way to truly prevent any risk of corrupted platinum is to not sell to other players. 

Sure, those are helpful for protecting your account from going into the negatives, but the OP only asked how to protect themself from fake plat 

I'm being pedantic ofc, but whilst there are ways to alleviate and protect from the issues that come with fake plat, there aren't really ways of protecting yourself from getting it in the first place beyond safe trading.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Letter13 said:

The best way to protect yourself from fraudulent platinum is to do the following:

• Do a little background checking into the player who's trading you the platinum. How new is their account? How much stuff have they unlocked? What's their mastery level? Users who make fraudulent purchases of platinum and then perform chargebacks will often use throwaway accounts, because they will get banned too (they use the throwaway account to 'ferry' the item to their legitimate account). If the account is not new and has considerable progress and effort put into it, it's a much more reliable source of platinum and less likely to be fraudulent.
• Sit on the platinum for a bit. If it is fraudulent platinum, then sitting on it for a while will protect you in the event it does get deducted. The amount that gets deducted will always be the amount of fraudulent platinum you received, so if you receive 2,000 platinum for a trade, make sure you have 2,000 or more platinum in your account for a while. Users who perform platinum fraud will usually force a chargeback quickly as they're not keen on spending real money.
• Keep a record of your trades, especially of your high-value trades. Screenshot the transaction and the user name. In the event that it is a fraudulent trade, having a record of who it was with and what was traded for will make recovery of the item(s) you traded for platinum much easier for support.
• And, as always, if you receive a large sum of platinum for an item, it never hurts to contact support to ask if they can double check and look into the transaction to make sure it's legitimate.

But the fraudsters gets around #1 by doing the "ferry" thing, so mastery level isnt much safer really.

It seems like only the account that makes the initial purchase is getting actually banned for the chargeback, then whoever (one person or many) that is at the end of the "chain" of trades will be impacted by the reduction of plat from their account.

1. Fraudster buys plat.

2. Fraduster trades plat to main account.

3. Main account trades away all plat to players (one or more) in return for in-game items.

4. Fraudster account makes the chargeback.

5. DE finds out, Fraudster account is banned.

6. DE removes all illegal plat in circulation.

7. Main account gets away with it since he has none of the illegal plat on him while those he have traded with will suffer.

That is what it probably looks like since it doesnt seem like they track the trades, just the platinum. Sure at times the fraudster skips step #2 just for the sake of trolling people. These incidents are easier to figure out and stay protected against, since it is often lowbie accounts.

[(PSN)KnowLedge]

I have to do a background check on someone before I can trade with them....

[Roett]

I have not read the the EULA in it's entirety but as i understand it the EULA for Warframe is pretty strict as far as they go. I doubt it would be easy to resolve things once banned as you lose access to customer support. I was banned once due to DE accidently offering a deal from Maroo that they did not intend and i had no resource to argue my case as i was banned from customer support and this forum. Luckily thousands of other players were also affected so the issue was resolved within a week, but if i had been alone and isolated like that im not sure it would have ever been resolved, and as a player with 2300 hours and hundreds of dollars in this game thats a bit scary. I love this game but i still have to say their polices revolt me sometimes.

[Letter13]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But the fraudsters gets around #1 by doing the "ferry" thing, so mastery level isnt much safer really.

It seems like only the account that makes the initial purchase is getting actually banned for the chargeback, then whoever (one person or many) that is at the end of the "chain" of trades will be impacted by the reduction of plat from their account.

1. Fraudster buys plat.

2. Fraduster trades plat to main account.

3. Main account trades away all plat to players (one or more) in return for in-game items.

4. Fraudster account makes the chargeback.

5. DE finds out, Fraudster account is banned.

6. DE removes all illegal plat in circulation.

7. Main account gets away with it since he has none of the illegal plat on him while those he have traded with will suffer.

That is what it probably looks like since it doesnt seem like they track the trades, just the platinum. Sure at times the fraudster skips step #2 just for the sake of trolling people. These incidents are easier to figure out and stay protected against, since it is often lowbie accounts.

The person committing fraud does not get away with it. Support can track the transfer of goods between accounts and can very easily determine which is the main account. The throwaway account and the main account of the person committing fraud get nuked from orbit. They never get away with it, contrary to popular belief about how the system works.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)KnowLedge said:

I have to do a background check on someone before I can trade with them....

You don't have to, no. But it's probably a good idea to do a quick check to see whether an account is obviously a throwaway account prior to trading with it, especially if it's a high value trade. It's not difficult and takes less than 15 seconds.

 

Or you can trade blindly with people and take everything they say and do as if they're saints... And increase your risk.

 

Your choice.

 

45 minutes ago, Roett said:

I have not read the the EULA in it's entirety but as i understand it the EULA for Warframe is pretty strict as far as they go. I doubt it would be easy to resolve things once banned as you lose access to customer support. I was banned once due to DE accidently offering a deal from Maroo that they did not intend and i had no resource to argue my case as i was banned from customer support and this forum. Luckily thousands of other players were also affected so the issue was resolved within a week, but if i had been alone and isolated like that im not sure it would have ever been resolved, and as a player with 2300 hours and hundreds of dollars in this game thats a bit scary. I love this game but i still have to say their polices revolt me sometimes.

You do not lose access to support if you're banned, except in extenuating circumstances (such as making threats of violence directed at DE). So if you are banned, you can still contact support to get more information.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

The best way is to not trade with plat (buying with it I mean)

I dont sell things for that reason. 

when you get into the thousands of plat area, I am always suspicious of the account trying to buy/sell, no matter what it is.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[--DSP--Jetstream]

So the item can be recovered by support? no worries then.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

1. I will be more careful with those recommendations like: don’t trade with this and that, take screenshots, ask support etc. because it can lead that every trader will enter the trade with mistrust and suspicion and start “Hunt for witches” where every low MR willing to spend more then 1k Plat will be reported 

2. I can bet that option to get Plat thru DE was the first and probably only option at early day and not everyone is willing or able to use Steam, with Chergbacks here we should speak about courtesy then Greed because:

3. Not everyone is Fraud. While I agree with SONY Chargeback policy, this story put me into Moral dilemma: 

https://metro.co.uk/2017/12/16/boy-14-accidentally-drains-mums-entire-bank-account-playing-fifa-7164264/

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by (PS4)Onder6099

[RivaAurelius]

10 hours ago, Gulftown said:

This is sadly the only way to go. DE's way of handling "bad plat" is horrible and ends up hurting the players instead of healing the corruption. In the end I don't see the point of this witch hunt, every piece of plat ever traded was initially charged by DE. They've got their share. Lack of control of economic changes shouldn't be blamed on players.

It's a ruthless market, and very unnecessarily so. Makes me feel very reluctant to sell ANYTHING. 

[AleDeVe]

I don't get it, how can Plat even be faked? I've played for years but I barely do any trading, I mainly only exchange stuff for free with friends. Does it mean you lose both the item and the Plat if you trade with someone who has "fake Plat"? And support does anything to refund honest sellers? That sounds weird and irresponsible

[rune_me]

39 minutes ago, Logan_Burns2 said:

It's a ruthless market, and very unnecessarily so. Makes me feel very reluctant to sell ANYTHING. 

Why though? 99.5% of anyone trading is perfectly legit. Most of us, myself included, has traded for 1000's and even 10.000's of plat and never been scammed or tricked.

Does it happen? Yeah, sure, very rarely. Could it happen to you as well? Yes, but considering the number of players in the game, it's statistically very unlikely to happen to you. Statistically you could get hit by a car. It happens to people every day. But that doesn't stop you from going outside.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

Just don't sell rivens for over 1k of plat...the riven market is all corrupted anyways. I'm sorry, but this is the best way to avoid the pain of this potentially happening, also only accept gifts from friends only. (Fraud plat can be used to sent gifts)

However, I had it happened to a friend who was selling maiming strikes...but he was able to unban his account by paying for the fraud plat that he spent on cosmetics, which in my opinion is funny because if you are truly guilty to be banned, then why can you pay your way out of it in the first place? In terms of principles it's kind of an illogical system, but in terms of being practical it seems very beneficial for DE to avoid getting themselves screwed over in terms of money.

Let's be real, rivens aren't even necessary to do endgame content and yet people spend over 100 bucks on rivens just to make a weapon slightly better, along with a gambling system integrated into a upgrading system (rerolling rivens)...I'm sorry, but that's an unnecessary feature, but a really good idea to make some big bucks for DE.

Anyone that tells you that you can be rich by merchanting off of rivens is either a fool or a liar...I make the big bucks from selling vaulted prime sets and merchanting off of those...it's the truth.

I think DE needs to rework the riven system...I really do...They should try to base the upgrading system of riven mods similar to the crafting system of Path of Exile for crafting modifiers on equipment. It'll would be more complex, but it'll be a bigger time sink, imo.

PS: If you're too lazy to read all of this, basically the flawed riven system results to this problem that is described in this thread and a few more problems (such as why should I even reroll rivens when I can buy them with plat, given I know how to make a lot of plat?), imo.

Advice to newbs: Stay the hell away from investing into rivens. Getting the perfect or sometimes even decent rolls can take longer than getting 1k of plat. You gain way more progression doing fissures than gambling with rivens through kuva survival, trust me. Also, unless you have a good understanding how damage calculation works in the game both through the status, crit, and damage modifers systems, then you will not be able to know what is truly a legendary riven or not.

One more thing: To be honest, I cannot find a better system with this current riven system in fixing this potential problem of getting punished from receiving fraud plat, that's mainly why I think the current riven system needs to be fixed. Thus, I cannot really criticize the support group for doing this since I have no better solution to offer.

Edited August 14, 2018 by WingGun

[RivaAurelius]

3 hours ago, rune_me said:

Why though? 99.5% of anyone trading is perfectly legit. Most of us, myself included, has traded for 1000's and even 10.000's of plat and never been scammed or tricked.

Does it happen? Yeah, sure, very rarely. Could it happen to you as well? Yes, but considering the number of players in the game, it's statistically very unlikely to happen to you. Statistically you could get hit by a car. It happens to people every day. But that doesn't stop you from going outside.

Yes but I do look both ways before I cross the street. To not take precautions for one's own safety is foolish. 

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Letter13 said:

The person committing fraud does not get away with it. Support can track the transfer of goods between accounts and can very easily determine which is the main account. The throwaway account and the main account of the person committing fraud get nuked from orbit. They never get away with it, contrary to popular belief about how the system works.

There must be a flaw in it, otherwise how can people further down the line of trading get effected? I mean if they can track the transfers they should be able to avoid letting innocents get effected.

If they could track it properly only the fraudster account and the main account would get effected, everyone else would keep whatever they have trades. Plat only needs to get removed once and that would be from the main account. No matter if the fraudster alt account directly transfers plat to his main account or buys items that he then transfer to it, if they can track it the plat amount that was charged back should be reduced from the main account while the alt account is straight up banned.

Right now however, they seem to bann the alt (and possibly main account) while also removing plat from innocents, resulting in innocents being hit just as hard as the fraudster since they need to pay real money for what the fraudster did. They should simply remove it from the main account while also banning the alt. This would rebalance the platinum while also punishing the guilty and not the victims.

That is why I have a hard time believing that they can actually track the transfers as they should. I think they can only track the plat ID, which results in the alt account getting banned (due to the obvious chargeback) and everyone that has plat from that account will have it removed. I dont think the main account is effected except in extreme cases where the fraudster has acted recklessly. There are simply too many ways to get around connections between two accounts due to the F2P nature of the game and all tools available like multiple computers, VPNs, free e-mail adresses, multiple CCs and so on.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[Damocles]

Sadly I traded with a player who was low MR who was "a known black market salesman" and reached negative plat balance when I traded with another player using that platinum to buy a riven. Had to buy prime access to free my account. If I ever had negative plat balance again for any reason, then I'm just going to quit the game. Fake plat shouldn't be a thing anyways, and if it was being generated, the "fake salesman" should be banned, not the victims. Someone even bought primed chamber for 100k, and paid a 50k finders fee. The mod was a fake and DE reverted the 100k, but they never investigated the 50k finders fee.

Best to never make transactions of more than 50% of your current fortune per player; both selling and buying.