How can I protect myself from fake plat?

[Letter13]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

There must be a flaw in it, otherwise how can people further down the line of trading get effected? I mean if they can track the transfers they should be able to avoid letting innocents get effected.

If they could track it properly only the fraudster account and the main account would get effected, everyone else would keep whatever they have trades. Plat only needs to get removed once and that would be from the main account. No matter if the fraudster alt account directly transfers plat to his main account or buys items that he then transfer to it, if they can track it the plat amount that was charged back should be reduced from the main account while the alt account is straight up banned.

Right now however, they seem to bann the alt and main account while also removing plat from innocents, resulting in innocents being hit just as hard as the fraudster since they need to pay real money for what the fraudster did. They should simply remove it from the main account while also banning the alt. This would rebalance the platinum while also punishing the guilty and not the victims.

That is why I have a hard time believing that they can actually track the transfers as they should. I think they can only track the plat ID, which results in the alt account getting banned (due to the obvious chargeback) and everyone that has plat from that account will have it removed. I dont think the main account is effected except in extreme cases where the fraudster has acted recklessly. There are simply too many ways to get around connections between two accounts due to the F2P nature of the game and all tools available like multiple computers, VPNs, free e-mail adresses, multiple CCs and so on.

The platinum needs to get removed from wherever it presently is--even if it's located on an account not affiliated with the user committing fraud. Otherwise you're still introducing and keeping fraudulent platinum within the system. The simple fact is that even if someone is innocent, they still received fraudulent/tainted platinum.

Letting them keep the platinum is not an option, otherwise you'd wind up seeing people make multiple (more than 2) accounts to commit the same type of fraud, except that the alt-account they trade the platinum to can now get away scott-free under what you're proposing.

Long story short: the way platinum fraud is handled is not going to change, and users should make an effort (it's not even a big effort, it's a small effort) to take a few extra seconds to protect themselves by following the recommendations I posted earlier (check the profile of the person you're trading with, do they look like a burner account? etc).

[Letter13]

3 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

Sadly I traded with a player who was low MR who was "a known black market salesman" and reached negative plat balance when I traded with another player using that platinum to buy a riven. Had to buy prime access to free my account. If I ever had negative plat balance again for any reason, then I'm just going to quit the game. Fake plat shouldn't be a thing anyways, and if it was being generated, the "fake salesman" should be banned, not the victims. Someone even bought primed chamber for 100k, and paid a 50k finders fee. The mod was a fake and DE reverted the 100k, but they never investigated the 50k finders fee.

Best to never make transactions of more than 50% of your current fortune per player; both selling and buying.

The "fake salesman" was banned, as were all of their associated accounts. However the fraudulent platinum still needed to be removed from the system from wherever it was currently located.

Also, "Finders Fee"s are considered a "Trade for promises", which is not something DE will protect/guarantee. In fact under the trading rules and guidelines it specifically states you should not perform a trade for promises.

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, Letter13 said:

The platinum needs to get removed from wherever it presently is--even if it's located on an account not affiliated with the user committing fraud. Otherwise you're still introducing and keeping fraudulent platinum within the system. The simple fact is that even if someone is innocent, they still received fraudulent/tainted platinum.

Letting them keep the platinum is not an option, otherwise you'd wind up seeing people make multiple (more than 2) accounts to commit the same type of fraud, except that the alt-account they trade the platinum to can now get away scott-free under what you're proposing.

Long story short: the way platinum fraud is handled is not going to change, and users should make an effort (it's not even a big effort, it's a small effort) to take a few extra seconds to protect themselves by following the recommendations I posted earlier (check the profile of the person you're trading with, do they look like a burner account? etc).

I'm just talking about if they can actually track the main account properly.

If they can, removing the plat from the main account while also banning the alt account straight up would simply remove the illegal plat. They arent after the specific plat really, they are just after plat that simply shouldnt be there due to a chargeback.

So if they bann the alt account and remove the amount of plat from the main account it will be the same as removing it from the innocent, except no innocent player will actually get hit. They would obviously also need to put a "bann" on the main account until the removed plat has been re-bought, even if the main account doesnt go negative.

That way if 2000P has been injected to the game, 2000P will get removed from the main account. Circulating plat will be the same as it was prior to the fraud. That way there will never be extra plat cirulating the market and no innocent will actually get hit. The fraudster will take all the punishment instead.

If DE can track it as you say, it wont matter if they make 1, 2, 3 or more alt accounts, they will all get tracked down and punished along with the main account.

[Trollsbane]

lol Counterfeits in Warframe, thought I would never see the day. By the way, do you get to have the items you traded back once the plat gets taken away?

Edited August 14, 2018 by Trollsbane

[Damocles]

10 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

fraudulent platinum still needed to be removed from the system from wherever it was currently located.

not entirely true. I think iirc I had like 500p, made 1k in fake plat, bought something for 1k, woke up in a month's time with negative plat balance of like 900 or something because I spent most of my fake and legit plat.

I guess it doesn't matter now, don't accept charity, don't trade with people who have good deals valued more than half your current fortune. Always sit on your pile of plat for at least a month before moving it. Giveaways are always fake, unless they give an item instead of plat.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Descent-of-Damocles

[WhiteMarker]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm just talking about if they can actually track the main account properly.

If they can, removing the plat from the main account while also banning the alt account straight up would simply remove the illegal plat. They arent after the specific plat really, they are just after plat that simply shouldnt be there due to a chargeback.

So if they bann the alt account and remove the amount of plat from the main account it will be the same as removing it from the innocent, except no innocent player will actually get hit. They would obviously also need to put a "bann" on the main account until the removed plat has been re-bought, even if the main account doesnt go negative.

That way if 2000P has been injected to the game, 2000P will get removed from the main account. Circulating plat will be the same as it was prior to the fraud. That way there will never be extra plat cirulating the market and no innocent will actually get hit. The fraudster will take all the punishment instead.

If DE can track it as you say, it wont matter if they make 1, 2, 3 or more alt accounts, they will all get tracked down and punished along with the main account.

You are making the false assumption that every single one of these fraudsters have plat in there account.
But they don't. And that's all there is to your "argument".

[Pooroldude]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm just talking about if they can actually track the main account properly.

If they can, removing the plat from the main account while also banning the alt account straight up would simply remove the illegal plat. They arent after the specific plat really, they are just after plat that simply shouldnt be there due to a chargeback.

So if they bann the alt account and remove the amount of plat from the main account it will be the same as removing it from the innocent, except no innocent player will actually get hit. They would obviously also need to put a "bann" on the main account until the removed plat has been re-bought, even if the main account doesnt go negative.

That way if 2000P has been injected to the game, 2000P will get removed from the main account. Circulating plat will be the same as it was prior to the fraud. That way there will never be extra plat cirulating the market and no innocent will actually get hit. The fraudster will take all the punishment instead.

If DE can track it as you say, it wont matter if they make 1, 2, 3 or more alt accounts, they will all get tracked down and punished along with the main account.

They cannot track the mastermind except the original account that charge backed unless there were give-aways such as same ip and same mac address or some other means but it is in no way impossible to pass off as just an innocent "bystander".

And that comes to the issue of why everyone involved with the fraudulent plat is now in a bad spot.

Trading is a risk and we have to accept it 😄

Edited August 14, 2018 by Pooroldude

[SneakyErvin]

25 minutes ago, Pooroldude said:

They cannot track the mastermind except the original account that charge backed unless there were give-aways such as same ip and same mac address or some other means but it is in no way impossible to pass off as just an innocent "bystander".

And that comes to the issue of why everyone involved with the fraudulent plat is now in a bad spot.

Trading is a risk and we have to accept it 😄

Yeah that is why i think the actual main account of the fraudster never gets in any real trouble. They simply cant prove it. A second PC at home, one using a VPN the other not. That gives him two unique PC's and two unique IPs. It can also come down to something simple as a friend. So in the end it comes down to tracking Plat ID, hence why innocents get them removed because the plat is in their possession at the chargeback. So the fraudster chargeback account getting banned and everyone with illegal plat has it removed and at times end up in the negative.

Edited August 14, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[CosmicHermitCrab]

4 hours ago, Letter13 said:

Long story short: the way platinum fraud is handled is not going to change, and users should make an effort (it's not even a big effort, it's a small effort) to take a few extra seconds to protect themselves by following the recommendations I posted earlier (check the profile of the person you're trading with, do they look like a burner account? etc).

You guys do realize some kid with MR 10-25 could just be in a uncommon mood and use his or her parent's credit card without permission...fraud plat is made and the kid plays another game after being banned. Statistics can be flawed as well, but besides that point, there is always that chance that a MR 25 player with 3k of hours can produce fraud plat, probably from the result of some real life issue. Mistakes happen all the time with money transactions. I seen various reports (from reviews of google mobile games) of kids using their parent's credit card without their permission and wasting a lot of money either to not be refunded the money used on the game or get a refund, but the kid's account gets banned in the end. Most of the time for mobile games, there are no refunds, but Warframe is different and doesn't do this, at least that's what I'm assuming. Basically, what I'm implying is what does the support team do when someone wants to refund their purchased plat with this current system? And if there are no refunds then why doesn't DE or the support team be more precautious with their customers, otherwise we wouldn't have this problem?

15 hours ago, Logan_Burns2 said:

Yes but I do look both ways before I cross the street. To not take precautions for one's own safety is foolish. 

I don't understand why some people think being precautious alone is enough to not receive fraud plat or not receive any bad treatment. It's like saying rape victims deserve to be raped because they didn't take the necessary precautions beforehand, such as not going outside during midnight. Also, there is still a possibility of getting hit by a car even when you look both ways before crossing the street, if you really want to be technical about it. There are so many variables, length of the road, does it take place in an intersection, blind spots (for example a wall near a road or the road that you are crossing is a turn with trees surrounding the road), and how fast is that car freaking going? Some people are so naive in thinking that only misfortunes happen to fools or people that deserve it, ideas like these don't lead to productive outcomes, in my opinion. We live in a world of probabilities and sometimes luck or chance just isn't on our side.

2 hours ago, Pooroldude said:

Trading is a risk and we have to accept it 😄

It's at least rational to accept that the current trade system has its own risks, but what better system could we replace it with? Instead most of us merely complaining and/or protecting the current flawed system, we should be brainstorming a better system.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by WingGun

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

You are making the false assumption that every single one of these fraudsters have plat in there account.
But they don't. And that's all there is to your "argument".

Actually no, that is the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying if DE can indeed track player to player transfers, then there would be no need to track the plat, and innocents in such a case would not be hit. They would simply punish the alt and main account. The main account would not need plat on it to be punished, they would track items traded and not just plat. This would end up with the alt account that did the chargeback being banned straight up and the main account would have plat reduced, either staying in the positive (if they have more than what was scammed) or in the negatives (if they have less or no plat when the reduction happens). In either case the main account would also get flagged and be locked until they purchased plat equal to that which was removed.

Very few of them actually have plat on their accounts becuase they simply spend it on items that go to the main account, which is the reason why innocents get punished instead because they end up with the illegal plat. Right now the alt fraudster account gets banned straight up, but the main account of that person is very likely going under the radar since they only track plat-ID, which ends up causing issues for legit, innocent players.

My first sentence "I'm just talking about if they can actually track the main account properly." should have made that clear. It was in response to Letter13 that says they indeed track actual transactions. My point was just that if they do indeed track transactions and not just plat-ID, then innocent collateral damage simply wouldnt happen, since actions would only be taken against the fraudster's accounts.

[Pooroldude]

DE could track and revert the traded items/plats to the original owners and treat the trades nullified.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

15 minutes ago, Pooroldude said:

DE could track and revert the traded items/plats to the original owners and treat the trades nullified.

Well, you know...that takes too much work... 😉

[SamanthaSammy]

52 minutes ago, WingGun said:

Well, you know...that takes too much work... 😉

especially knowing DE

[RivaAurelius]

5 hours ago, WingGun said:

5 hours ago, WingGun said:

I don't understand why some people think being precautious alone is enough to not receive fraud plat or not receive any bad treatment. It's like saying rape victims deserve to be raped because they didn't take the necessary precautions beforehand, such as not going outside during midnight. Also, there is still a possibility of getting hit by a car even when you look both ways before crossing the street, if you really want to be technical about it. There are so many variables, length of the road, does it take place in an intersection, blind spots (for example a wall near a road or the road that you are crossing is a turn with trees surrounding the road), and how fast is that car freaking going? Some people are so naive in thinking that only misfortunes happen to fools or people that deserve it, ideas like these don't lead to productive outcomes, in my opinion. We live in a world of probabilities and sometimes luck or chance just isn't on our side.

 

I never said you deserved it if you didn't take precautions, but if you don't look both ways when you cross the street, your risks of being hit by a car goes up. I said in order to MINIMISE risk, you must take precautions. If you do not take said precautions then you leave yourself open to the negative consequences of receiving fraud plat. 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

29 minutes ago, Logan_Burns2 said:

I never said you deserved it if you didn't take precautions, but if you don't look both ways when you cross the street, your risks of being hit by a car goes up. I said in order to MINIMISE risk, you must take precautions. If you do not take said precautions then you leave yourself open to the negative consequences of receiving fraud plat. 

Ah, I agree. Sorry, I misunderstood, misread the quote you replied to, so I was assuming you had a different intention than you actually had.

[RivaAurelius]

6 hours ago, WingGun said:

Ah, I agree. Sorry, I misunderstood, misread the quote you replied to, so I was assuming you had a different intention than you actually had.

It's quite alright, mistakes happen 🙂

I understand this is a difficult topic, and wish there were better solutions. I am not sure I understand how fraud plat gets in the game anyway, how does that even happen?

[BL4CKN0ISE]

On 2018-08-13 at 7:54 AM, Letter13 said:

The best way to protect yourself from fraudulent platinum is to do the following:

• Do a little background checking into the player who's trading you the platinum. How new is their account? How much stuff have they unlocked? What's their mastery level? Users who make fraudulent purchases of platinum and then perform chargebacks will often use throwaway accounts, because they will get banned too (they use the throwaway account to 'ferry' the item to their legitimate account). If the account is not new and has considerable progress and effort put into it, it's a much more reliable source of platinum and less likely to be fraudulent.
• Sit on the platinum for a bit. If it is fraudulent platinum, then sitting on it for a while will protect you in the event it does get deducted. The amount that gets deducted will always be the amount of fraudulent platinum you received, so if you receive 2,000 platinum for a trade, make sure you have 2,000 or more platinum in your account for a while. Users who perform platinum fraud will usually force a chargeback quickly as they're not keen on spending real money.
• Keep a record of your trades, especially of your high-value trades. Screenshot the transaction and the user name. In the event that it is a fraudulent trade, having a record of who it was with and what was traded for will make recovery of the item(s) you traded for platinum much easier for support.
• And, as always, if you receive a large sum of platinum for an item, it never hurts to contact support to ask if they can double check and look into the transaction to make sure it's legitimate.

This is absolutely hilarious. I can't believe this is a serious post. 

[Ada_Wong_SG]

Don't earn plats through trading, just use the top up function,
it is a fool proof method and also to show your care by paying DE actual money

Edited August 15, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG

[nerfinator6]

So TLDR

Don't trade?

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Would be nice if we had a ingame program to trade through... That could detect fraudulent platinum.

Flyff had something similar back in the day.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

On 2018-08-14 at 1:11 PM, CrystalSpark said:

Well, you know...that takes too much work... 😉

DE has like 250 people wrkn on this game. No way they could do that.