Based on data given in devstream 115, I think Mag needs a rework

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, SubExodus said:

This guy feels like trolling. People with massive Mag experience such as me, you and many others are telling him she's good but nah. He knows better. With his 0.7% mag use

I'm leaning towards troll on this one as well.

They saw a graph outlining the preferences of players over a period of days and are willfully interpreting the chart to suit a flawed opinion about a Warframe they have no experience with. 

The problem with declaring a certain frame as trash based off something like that chart is there isn't enough accompanying information to support the claim. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Just now, SubExodus said:

Justifying an ability's existence because of augment is really... Not be rude but, dumb

Lol, the augment is a mod like any other. So ur Arguing that mag 2 abilities are super powerful unmodded? Doubtful. Whose being dumb?

[Neonite]

Just now, MagPrime said:

I'm leaning towards troll on this one as well.

They saw a graph outlining the preferences of players over a period of days and are willfully interpreting the chart to suit a flawed opinion about a Warframe they have no experience with. 

The problem with declaring a certain frame as trash based off something like that chart is there isn't enough accompanying information to support the claim. 

It may have to do with the "MAG IS TRASH XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD" meme. It is sad that people just keep regurgitating that without actually trying to use the frame

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, SubExodus said:

This guy feels like trolling. People with massive Mag experience such as me, you and many others are telling him she's good but nah. He knows better. With his 0.7% mag use

I'm leaning towards troll on this one as well.

They saw a graph outlining the preferences of players over a period of days and are willfully interpreting the chart to suit a flawed opinion about a Warframe they have no experience with. 

The problem with declaring a certain frame as trash based off something like that chart is there isn't enough accompanying information to support the claim. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I'd rather have pie instead of popcorn. 

This thread is quite entertaining. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(PSN)Chel-El]

Can we lump:

efficiency with popularity

power with personal preference

competence with complexity 

all in one neat analysis? 

 

[Neonite]

1 minute ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Lol, the augment is a mod like any other. So ur Arguing that mag 2 abilities are super powerful unmodded? Doubtful. Whose being dumb?

Augments are different because they change what ability does, not how well it does what it does as its base (like power mods). Most augments can be treated as an additional ability or 0.6 of an ability cause the effects they give can be tremendous (such as the mentioned Polarize Augment, Eclipse augment, Crush augment, Mallet augment) and they also often scale off power mods themselves which amplifies the power's total strength exponentially. Crush and Magnetize are useful without the augment, because they already have a useful mechanic or numbers.

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, SubExodus said:

It may have to do with the "MAG IS TRASH XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD" meme. It is sad that people just keep regurgitating that without actually trying to use the frame

I agree with that.  

[Ghooze]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb SubExodus:

Justifying an ability's existence because of augment is really... Not be rude but, dumb

Polarize also does a f-load of damage. especialy in survivals where you get loads of grouped up mobs.

id say 3658 dmg isnt to shabby against lvl 100 mobs

Edited August 18, 2018 by Ghooze

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:

Can we lump:

efficiency with popularity

power with personal preference

competence with complexity 

all in one neat analysis? 

 

Too logical, too efficient, this might lead to viable and constructive conversation - no can do my friend. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

5 minutes ago, SubExodus said:

Augments are different because they change what ability does, not how well it does what it does as its base (like power mods). Most augments can be treated as an additional ability or 0.6 of an ability cause the effects they give can be tremendous (such as the mentioned Polarize Augment, Eclipse augment, Crush augment, Mallet augment) and they also often scale off power mods themselves which amplifies the power's total strength exponentially. Crush and Magnetize are useful without the augment, because they already have a useful mechanic or numbers.

Her 3 can heal shields of friendlys, and pops enemies shields and armor doing damage in an aoe around each enemy. Can outright kill anything up to lvl 50... In 100m with high duration. Trash? Nope

Edited August 18, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[Neonite]

We're just feeding this stupid troll. If you play Mag or have some kind of experience with her (or atleast some intelligence) you know she's not bad. Just go on about your day instead of wasting your time here guys, please

[Andaius]

13 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I'm leaning towards troll on this one as well.

They saw a graph outlining the preferences of players over a period of days and are willfully interpreting the chart to suit a flawed opinion about a Warframe they have no experience with. 

The problem with declaring a certain frame as trash based off something like that chart is there isn't enough accompanying information to support the claim. 

Indeed.

[Almagnus1]

3 minutes ago, Ghooze said:

Polarize also does a f-load of damage. especialy in survivals where you get loads of grouped up mobs.

id say 3658 dmg isnt to shabby against lvl 100 mobs

You need to recalibrate what you call good, as Try this Amprex build and you'll think twice about room clearing possibilities https://goo.gl/N3qPX9

24 minutes ago, SubExodus said:

I think people forgot to do the simplest thing which is check his profile. He hasn't played mag / magp at all so i doubt he gets to comment if she's weak or not. If he played mag above level 80 he would realize how valuable instant CC from Crush is and how amazing Magnetize is for creating control chokepoints. Her 3 is pretty much trash but she has 2 super powerful abilities

Maybe it's cause I looked at what mag could do, realized that there's not a compelling reason to play Mag, and moved on?

So far, I'm not seeing a reason to invest in Mag because Saryn just does room nuking better while Trinity and Oberon are far better support options cause the shield mechanic just plain sucks.

I've asked for what Mag actually excels at, and the only response I've gotten (especially going through how I've come to that conclusion) is that I'm a troll - which leads me to believe that Mag isn't actually good at anything and the Mag defenders know this so they would rather call me a troll than address the issue head on.

24 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Of course they're not, considering how arguably overpowered Saryn is at the mo. Want an easy way to ruin everyone else's ability to kill things on Hydron and other close quarters maps? Bring a Saryn optimized for range and strength and do nothing but spam 1 and pop those bubbles.

Part of Mag's problem, aside from a questionably labeled kit and weird synergy, is that there are Frames that are way too good at trivializing enemies. If easy-mode is what you want...why bother with stuff that requires a bit of skill and work for your rewards?

If I'm doing something like ESO I want to take a frame that is a known good one into ESO so that way I can carry the group if necessary.  Until we see something where Mag can do 8 rooms solo at ESO (including the build that lets you do that), I'm not going to give Mag a second thought.  Talk is cheap, but we need proof that Mag is actually good.

19 minutes ago, (XB1)DragonBoltor45 said:

And besides, if mag is a trash frame, then how come there are people who successfully defy that statement that is the title of this hereby thread? If you think that mag is trash, then you are either a support or killframe player, but for all I know, I don’t use her, but I see potential in her. I’ll have to post soon. Just gotta do something. Brb.

Maybe they have an emotional attachment to the frame and can't approach Mag objectively?

[(PSN)Chel-El]

it’s meta analysis over personal preference again 

alas, Tenno. humans are not efficiency bots

otherwise we will all just have one skin per warframe to save on platinum, won’t we? in this world we have both science and art, efficiency and fun, math and Mag mains. 

if you look at MCGamerCZ he has efficiency builds and fun builds. he does not lump the two together and pretend that people just play WF for maximum efficiency only. 

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:

Can we lump:

efficiency with popularity

power with personal preference

competence with complexity 

all in one neat analysis? 

 

Too logical, too efficient, this might lead to viable and constructive conversation - no can do my friend. 

[Neonite]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

You need to recalibrate what you call good, as Try this Amprex build and you'll think twice about room clearing possibilities https://goo.gl/N3qPX9

Maybe it's cause I looked at what mag could do, realized that there's not a compelling reason to play Mag, and moved on?

So far, I'm not seeing a reason to invest in Mag because Saryn just does room nuking better while Trinity and Oberon are far better support options cause the shield mechanic just plain sucks.

I've asked for what Mag actually excels at, and the only response I've gotten (especially going through how I've come to that conclusion) is that I'm a troll - which leads me to believe that Mag isn't actually good at anything and the Mag defenders know this so they would rather call me a troll than address the issue head on.

If I'm doing something like ESO I want to take a frame that is a known good one into ESO so that way I can carry the group if necessary.  Until we see something where Mag can do 8 rooms solo at ESO (including the build that lets you do that), I'm not going to give Mag a second thought.  Talk is cheap, but we need proof that Mag is actually good.

Maybe they have an emotional attachment to the frame and can't approach Mag objectively?

I actually said what she's good at you just ignored that just so you can play victim of being called a troll. And i'm pretty sure ignoring facts to further your opinion can be trolling.

Mag is great at creating controlled chokepoints, panic CC and shield restoration. Her defensive measures may not be as amazing as Trinity but that's not her main focus, and she's still pretty good at it. Mag is mainly for controlling an area with her Magnetize and her short-term CC both enhances it and allows her to relocate or save herself, and assist the team at the same time. I would understand if you trashed her passive or had some negative connotation with her 3 which, could be better. But trashing her as a whole is a hilariously uneducated move.

 

P.S. If you used frame for an hour in like, only one place then you shouldn't have an opinion on what's good or bad. If you think Mag is bad you haven't used her properly in survival or defense, whereas in survival she's one of top 5 best frames

[Misgenesis]

Shes obviously not as has been pointed out by now but to add, i would say shes one of few frames that are actually balanced well between starter and sortie content.

[Dishonored]

mag definitely not a trash warframe but
she required a heavy modding  before she could be good enough to do anything.

i saw new player had problem with her because she have lower survivability
when compared other starter warframe such as volt and excal.
volt could place his shield to completely negate all damage while excal you could just press 4 to win.
for mag you could place magnetize on enemies to block the enemies fires but it isn't as reliable as volt 3.
her 4 is good  but required 100 energy per cast which is pretty harsh for starter.  since they haven't unlock energizing dash.

when new players choose mag, they expected  Mage-type warframe  that can cast abilities frequently and have large area of effect attack.
it's kind of a bummer when i find out warframe doesn't have passive energy regen when i first start the game.
 

[(XBOX)BKRS Veeco]

Can we please stop making these posts for viable frames? Idk how she is on the damage side these days, and I, personally, haven't played her since she was able to pull ammo/orbs to the team, but my buddy plays her all the time as a support to shred armor.

 

There are more frames on this list that are picked less than mag/prime that you could've chosen. Excal is picked more often than anything because he's the first choice, and his kit is warrior based. I will admit I didn't enjoy my mag pick on PC as much as when I picked excal as the starter on Xbox, but I picked her up later on when I knew what I was doing and enjoyed her fairly well, just fell out for other frames.

This data also only shows pick rate per MR, it doesn't show what activities these people are doing or how efficiently they're even playing them. With 2 dlcs on the horizon, I'd rather them forcus on that before considering reworking anyone.

Not every frame is going to be efficient as a solo frame and you may need a group or composition, but 20 new frames more and some older frames will sit there before being reworked when they actually need it.

[DeathshotSE]

Can't say much about mag as a starter frame since I never experienced it before, but I think mag is too squishy for new players until you get the Counter Pulse augment which is locked behind syndicate rank which is not very accessible for a starter frame.

 

For the starter frame distribution:

• Excalibur is the poster boy so most new players would generally pick him if they can't decide.
• For Volt and Mag, without any prior knowledge, the percentage of people selecting volt and mag would just come down to the information and presentation during the selection process and personal preference.

Assuming a new player jumps into the game without any prior knowledge that might skew them towards picking one frame over another (word of mouth, videos, etc.), new players would picking their starter frame based off of the information given during the tutorial. Buffing Mag will not do anything to balance the distribution of starter frames.

 

Now, for the retention period:

• Excalibur is tanky compared to Volt and Mag so new players would stick with him for longer given their limited mod collection.
• Volt at its base has Electric Shield which can last for a while given the energy cost and increases the player's survivability. Without know all the mechanics of Warframe, it is a simple deployable cover you get from hitting one button. Easy to understand and use.
• Mag at its base only has limited CC, meaning she needs to possibly spam her abilities (pull or crush) to keep enemies from killing her. This is not a great energy economy for survivability. She does have Magnetize, but that is a fairly small bubble and new players would need to figure out that it can be strategically used for survivability. 

Buffing Mag in some capacity to improve her survivability may increase her retention through mutliple MR. As a new player with limited mods and knowledge, Mag is not the best at surviving and is not the easiest to understand. Her kit is strong, but the skill ceiling is high. She has to use more energy to stay alive compared to Excalibur and Volt which is not very friendly to new players who lack mods.

 

Personally, as a frame option when you are far into the game, Mag (I use mag prime if the stat changes affect a lot) is a very balanced frame once you have the key mod Counter Pulse. I very much enjoy running around with mag when I want to enjoy the combat and not just cheese/tank everything.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

44 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Of course they're not, considering how arguably overpowered Saryn is at the mo. Want an easy way to ruin everyone else's ability to kill things on Hydron and other close quarters maps? Bring a Saryn optimized for range and strength and do nothing but spam 1 and pop those bubbles.

Part of Mag's problem, aside from a questionably labeled kit and weird synergy, is that there are Frames that are way too good at trivializing enemies. If easy-mode is what you want...why bother with stuff that requires a bit of skill and work for your rewards?

 

How annoying. Leave Saryn out of this. Saryn and Mag are bffs. 

You realize Saryn requires a huge set up. I have to spore then maisma then lash. Mag only has 2 steps. 

[(XBOX)BKRS Veeco]

Can we please stop making these posts for viable frames? First it was an inaros as a tank post and now this. Idk how she is on the damage side these days, and I, personally, haven't played her since she was able to pull ammo/orbs to the team, but my buddy plays her all the time as a support to shred armor.

 

There are more frames on this list that are picked less than mag/prime that you could've chosen. Excal is picked more often than anything because he's the first choice, and his kit is warrior based. I will admit I didn't enjoy my mag pick on PC as much as when I picked excal as the starter on Xbox, but I picked her up later on when I knew what I was doing and enjoyed her fairly well, just fell out for other frames.

This data also only shows pick rate per MR, it doesn't show what activities these people are doing or how efficiently they're even playing them. With 2 dlcs on the horizon, I'd rather them forcus on that before considering reworking anyone.

Not every frame is going to be efficient as a solo frame and you may need a group or composition, but 20 new frames more and some older frames will sit there before being reworked when they actually need it.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

How annoying. Leave Saryn out of this. Saryn and Mag are bffs. 

You realize Saryn requires a huge set up. I have to spore then maisma then lash. Mag only has 2 steps. 

Actually she only has 1 depending on ur playstyle

[Ghooze]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Almagnus1:

You need to recalibrate what you call good, as Try this Amprex build and you'll think twice about room clearing possibilities https://goo.gl/N3qPX9

apples and oranges mate!
the topic was "abilities". if you just throw the amprex into the room then EVERY dmg ability ingame should be considered bad.