[Mega Spoilers] To Those Who Dislike Being ...

[Omnimorph]

... what we actually are. 

 

I have sympathy.  I mean for a moment, I had a bit of a shock and visceral reaction against being an

"emo teenager"

 

But please give it a chance.  For one thing:-

 

It needn't stop you from feeling like you're your favourite Warframe.  After all that's the whole point, for centuries the Tenno haven't known the truth, they've felt like they are their Warframes.  All that's different is essentially that a) you've changed VR pods from the golden one on the moon, to the one on the Orbiter.  The one on the Orbiter totally encloses you, as you'll notice if you walk to the door back to the Liset, so it's not like you have to think of yourself as an emo teenager sitting in a chair playing with an iPad remotely steering a Warframe - you're still like the soldier in Avatar, totally enclosed in a VR pod, with all your senses and feedback telling you that you are "in" the Warframe, just as if you were wearing it like a suit.  And also, b) now you know the truth conceptually, but that doesn't stop you from still piloting the Warframe as if you're "in" it, because that's the only way to pilot it.

 

And for another thing:-

 

Think of it in terms of the story: kids in a horrible accident, losing their parents, nearly killing each other with abilities they don't understand, then they nearly get the chop, but are saved, only at the cost of being turned into child soldiers.  Yet they develop a whole culture and way of life, while they're dreaming that they are their Warframes.  It's really quite a good story, and all you need to do is fit yourself back into it and make the Operator your own.  S/he needn't be "emo" (although I admit they could probably use a few more options in cosmetics :) ), s/he could be wise, ancient, tough-minded, etc.  Even if they have a squeaky voice. But that's part of the weirdness.  It's a science-fiction story, through and through, and it's meant to challenge you re. deep questions like identity, consciousness, etc., all those things, just like good science-fiction normally does.

 

So cheer up and try it on for size :)

Edited December 7, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Genoscythe]

I loved to finally have a real identity. But yeah, some more cosmetic options would be nice, or even growing up as you earn more focus points. Well, to be fair the mind is still the one of an acient-old man/woman, it's just the body that is still younger.

 

 

Need more variety in comments from my operator though.

 

EDIT: one problem less for me.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Genoscythe

[Omnimorph]

I loved to finally have a real identity. But yeah, some more cosmetic options would be nice, or even growing up as you earn more focus points. Well, to be fair the mind is still the one of an acient-old man/woman, it's just the body that is still younger.

 

 

Need more variety in comments from my operator though, or a way to disable those.

 

You can disable it in options.

[GoSonic]

I just thought to myself that my operator can still have preferences on which Warframe they like to control most. Good post! +1

Edited December 7, 2015 by SpecialistOps

[Maou]

I love having a child with me in my ship, I consider her as my second commander next to lotus.

Hope she gets more roles later on the future.

[Genoscythe]

You can disable it in options.

Thanks.

[Kaethill]

Though what was it with the Warframe moving on its own and destroying the "War" weapon?

[Helleborr]

So, Warframe all along has been a story of children that were abused and were about to be discarded, but that have gotten back at their masters, wiping them out just like their enemies. To me this revelation made the game so much deeper and dearer, that I can't complain about being a teenager character.

Oh and let's not forget our Space-Mom that sacrificed her past and everything else along with it to save the children. She then elevated them from a bunch of victims to the most powerful force in the system. This is just epic, and it's one of the few times when devs' promise that "things will change forever" was actually true. So, I'm completely happy with what happened with the lore in U18, teenagers or not. ;)

[LABAL]

No, Officer, that kid in the trunk of my car is Me... Officer? Have I said something wrong?

[LazerusKI]

actually i feel like i can now relate better to my "operator" than to "just another frame in my army of one"

 

also i kinda like how i could design him

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/401181547224046810/552D50E4BC8F0420E7349119F7201C495747D2A0/

looks like he is sitting on a dark throne with ash prime kneeling in front of him^^

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/401181547223764972/CE4DE4003D26EBB3C95441A734BB2A69533C0F55/

 

also...are they really "childs"? do we know how old they are? maybe they are just looking like they are young...who knows what the void did to them besides giving them godlike powers

Edited December 7, 2015 by LazerusKI

[Zemosu]

... what we actually are. 

 

I have sympathy.  I mean for a moment, I had a bit of a shock and visceral reaction against being an "emo teenager"

I tried to make mine look like me ... bald ... ended up with a neo nazi tenno ....

....

....

hey it's still better then an emo.

[Ziegrif]

I'd rather rename my operator and keep calling the Warframe that's in use 'Ziegrif'.

 

It's been too long and having the Operator use my name feels a bit like highway robbery.

 

I didn't choose to give that name to her. She took it without my knowing.

 

I'm still a bit dissonant about me the player being the Operator. I'm the frame. That's not going to be easy to change. Hell the operator SPEAKS to ME which is weird as balls.

 

My problem is solved the moment I can rename the Operator independently from my account name... and when I get a dress... and some nice shoes. Dear lord she's a mess! Fashion is the name of the game Doll.~

Edited December 7, 2015 by Ziegrif

[Helleborr]

Though what was it with the Warframe moving on its own and destroying the "War" weapon?

I still think the operator did that, but even if not, then the warframe suits do contain a dummy body, which may possess some residual will quite like piloted mechs in most of mech anime. Our they can even have some semi-sentience of their own, like Evangelions, who knows? All of that fits well into traditions of genre, so I'm happy either way.

[Veemaxt]

Nice, who else tried to make thier tenno look like them. An option to fit a photo of me on the face would be good ;-)

[Tuxie]

I made the operator look somewhat like myself and turned off the operator speech in the options, kinda solved my problem for the most part.

 

I could use some more customization though, more hairstyles, outfits, maybe masks on the operators to give them that faceless feel again.

[Omnimorph]

I'm still a bit dissonant about me the player being the Operator. I'm the frame. That's not going to be easy to change. Hell the operator SPEAKS to ME which is weird as balls.

 

I think the voice is an added extra that works for some and doesn't work for others - I mean, even though I love the whole thing, I don't like the voice and once I've heard all the options i'm going to turn it off.

 

But the thing is - you've ALWAYS been the Operator.  You've always been the Operator being a frame.

 

You're Jake Sully from Avatar in reverse - as if he started off thinking he was his avatar, and now he's woken up to being Jake Sully in a VR pod piloting an avatar.  But that doesn't change the fact that he still feels like the avatar while he's piloting it.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Hypernaut1]

Honestly, I like the Tenno, but they feel like an NPC. Like a part of the ship. I feel like im the WFs themselves and the kids are my engine. These kids just dont come across as fierce warriors. I dont see them performing the actions the WFs do. I don't see that operator slaughtering 1000 grineer in cold blood, then silently contemplating their next move kneeling down in front of a holographic map.

[Agentcheese]

I still don't feel like I am the operator because they keep doing things or don't do things that I would do.

 

#1 talking. they say things I would never say like stuff about honor.  fighting someone while you are piloting something unkillable is not how you fight with honor.  

 

 then if I mute them they in other words me are appearing on the screen blocking a bit of my view and then going away again.

 

that is also something I wouldn't do.

 

#2 if I really was the operator I would stop sitting on that dam chair all day and get up to do the stuff myself. in fact id stop piloting warfames and start giving them zanuka like A.I so they could be on the battle field with me.

 

that way I would know battles could at least be a little more fair since I could die as well. the enemy standing no chance all the time feels wrong.

 

#3 yes they have had a horrible accident and everything but I haven't. it makes it hard to relate to the tenno since i have no idea what that would be like. also I doubt I would even be working with the lotus anymore.

 

the tenno knows and loves her, I don't.

 

also she tells you to kill far to many things. I might have played this game so much more peacefully if I had an option.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Agentcheese

[Ziegrif]

But the thing is - you've ALWAYS been the Operator.  You've always been the Operator being a frame.

 

I'll never believe, accept or want that no matter what anyone says.

I'll cling to the frames free will as shown when breaking war.

 

I want my name back from the Operator. Getting that back is enough for me.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Ziegrif

[Omnimorph]

#2 if I really was the operator I would stop sitting on that dam chair all day and get up to do the stuff myself.

 

You're not sitting in a chair.  Switch to the operator, then when you Esc from that, walk away from the "chair" back to the door to the Liset.  You will notice that the "chair" closes up. 

 

It's basically a virtual reality pod, just like the golden one the Tenno came from on the moon, only it's part of the Orbiter.

 

So while you are piloting the Warframe, your sense of yourself (the Operator's sense of themselves) is of being the Warframe (just like it was before the truth was known) not of someone sitting in a chair. 

 

IOW, the Operator is totally enclosed in a VR Pod on the Orbiter, while he's piloting the Warframe, just like Jake Sully is in the pod with his eyes closed while he's piloting his avatar in Avatar.

[Rinnolk]

A lot of the player's responses and general reactions to the big reveal are all but too much exactly how I think some of the tenno would react in-universe.

'I cant be this weak-looking kid, I'm the badass silent super-warrior! This isn't happening, this is all lies/false!'

While I realize it's often more than that, or even different reasons altogether. But this thought/observation makes the whole controversy that much more... amusing.

[UrielColtan]

... what we actually are. 

 

I have sympathy.  I mean for a moment, I had a bit of a shock and visceral reaction against being an

"emo teenager"

 

But please give it a chance.  For one thing:-

 

It needn't stop you from feeling like you're your favourite Warframe.  After all that's the whole point, for centuries the Tenno haven't known the truth, they've felt like they are their Warframes.  All that's different is essentially that a) you've changed VR pods from the golden one on the moon, to the one on the Orbiter.  The one on the Orbiter totally encloses you, as you'll notice if you walk to the door back to the Liset, so it's not like you have to think of yourself as an emo teenager sitting in a chair playing with an iPad remotely steering a Warframe - you're still like the soldier in Avatar, totally enclosed in a VR pod, with all your senses and feedback telling you that you are "in" the Warframe, just as if you were wearing it like a suit.  And also, b) now you know the truth conceptually, but that doesn't stop you from still piloting the Warframe as if you're "in" it, because that's the only way to pilot it.

 

And for another thing:-

 

Think of it in terms of the story: kids in a horrible accident, losing their parents, nearly killing each other with abilities they don't understand, then they nearly get the chop, but are saved, only at the cost of being turned into child soldiers.  Yet they develop a whole culture and way of life, while they're dreaming that they are their Warframes.  It's really quite a good story, and all you need to do is fit yourself back into it and make the Operator your own.  S/he needn't be "emo" (although I admit they could probably use a few more options in cosmetics :) ), s/he could be wise, ancient, tough-minded, etc.  Even if they have a squeaky voice. But that's part of the weirdness.  It's a science-fiction story, through and through, and it's meant to challenge you re. deep questions like identity, consciousness, etc., all those things, just like good science-fiction normally does.

 

So cheer up and try it on for size :)

 

Is there a reason for needing to try and change other people's mind? Just accept them not liking it.

Its not that hard.

 

I didn't really like the whole angle in Avatar either with its cringy undertones, but even there, Jake Sully left his own crippled body behind permanently, and the Navi were just a race of indigenous people, not a bunch of immortal military armor/weapons   Has a different impact. 

This codependent existence in the game now is almost about as appealing to me as the book "The Host", by Stefanie Meyer. In other words, not appealing, though at least that had more risk involved and pointed out how awful and constraining that sharing a body with someone else was.

 

On this co-dependent concept, I would at best,accept a Parasyte graphic novel angle, though that too had more risk and involved sharing an actual persons body, not some doll/corpse/frankenstein possession. Except with no reversing, as opposed to "The Host", Avatar, and these puppet shenanigans in the game now.

 

Though overall I would prefer autonomy, and for my characters to wear a Warframe as an exo suit.

Edited December 7, 2015 by UrielColtan

[Godmur]

A lot of the player's responses and general reactions to the big reveal are all but too much exactly how I think some of the tenno would react in-universe.

'I cant be this weak-looking kid, I'm the badass silent super-warrior! This isn't happening, this is all lies/false!'

While I realize it's often more than that, or even different reasons altogether. But this thought/observation makes the whole controversy that much more... amusing.

That was the idea all along, after all, Steve already said, some won't like what U18 will mean, and some will do like it, i took the pill, but i cant accept i did, when i was playing The Second Dream from beggining to end i was thinking something like the following:

-Welp, Stalker's gona do something and its not gona be good for me, so better go fix whatever he breaks *sometime later with the Lotus-Alad V conversation* what are you talking about, secrets, lies, memories? what is that i dont know... Whatever it is, it must wait, Stalker is here, and he doesnt looks like always *Some meele swings later* He is strong, my weapons seem to not affect him, he is blocking my sword, and evades my shoots, i better focus on what Lotus asked me to do, or else, i'll end up destroyed with the Moon *after mission and before we get to the WTF moment* So now sentients are gona get in my way, i remember them, maybe i can get a taste on how they also got crushed * mission starts and i meet with a few sentients* well now i know why we didnt fight them alone, better move fortward and forget about them... *And the moment of truth* what is this room... something is emerging... !!!!!

 

 

-I'm on the ground, my Warframe, i'm out, i cant feel my legs, they are numb, i crawl to my Warframe, i dont know how to go back in, but i feel it, i can move it, i have to get back to the Liset.

 

-Something is behind me, Stalker, i have to get out of here... Now Sentients, great ¿cant get any worse?, i extend my hand as a reflex the power is flowing a beam of void energy, its damaging the Sentient, maybe things can only go well from now, i must hurry, you never know when Stalker may come back, they are strong, or i am weak, i open my path Sentients still coming, they are getting easy to destroy, no, i am getting my strengh back, there it is the Liset, everything is too calm now, im tired, i'll rest till we get to the Orbiter...

 

-Are we here now? Ordis is not reponding, maybe there is something i can use on the back of the Orbiter, to get in my Warframe again... ¡¿Stalker?! Here, How?!... *Focused on the fight*... Thats it, i got rid of him?, agh! my Warframe stabbed, im getting choked, what should i do, i feel weak...

 

-Someone is carrying me, ¡¿Lotus?!, what is this, a chair... she ask me the last thing i remember before i meet her, my memories are scattered, i remember there were lies, i remember being there fighting agaisnt the Setients, but i cannot remember the Zariman, i cant remember the fall of the Oroking, for me i've been the Tenno inside the Warframe, but now im ouside, i dont understand...*This is the part were Lotus explain to you everything, i select all options, so i had to go back with the questions a few times to catch up on everything*

 

 

And that's pretty much how i felt the hole Second Dream, pretty much the options we are given are default options, there should have been an option were you cant remember anything, flat simple, Lotus explains to you everything from beggining to end, still there are some part that we are not told about, like now we know, Orokin died because of us interacting with the Setients, but why and how, i may have missed that part? Anyway The Second Dream should be taken not literally, but from an personal perspective like i did.

Still i dont like how we are presented to the Focus System, because its something we should kinda know before hand, which is not explained until now, and it is talked about like we always new about it, but we dont, so that should be rechecked, or i dunno maybe it is in the Codex, i havent seen it in a while, and anyway if it isnt in the Codex it should be there, so we could say yeah ok schools i got it, i choose X one.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Godmur

[Omnimorph]

Is there a reason for needing to try and change other people's mind? Just accept them not liking it.

Its not that hard.

 

 

Is there something wrong with trying to persuade other people to your opinion?  It's part of the give and take of life.  Don't worry, if I can't persuade you to reconsider after a short conversation, I won't try and kill you or anything :)

 

From my point of view, I don't get why an exo-suit is any better.  This is part of the philosophical argument around this sort of concept of course ("brain in a vat").  I mean, with VR + Warframe you are "there" in every meaningful sense, in the sense that all the data coming in from the Warframe's sensors, including proprioception (sense of having a body), and all the signals going out from your brain are in exactly the same position as if you were physically inside a suit.

 

The only difference is the distance being crossed by "wifi" signals (or whatever it is).  Effectively, you're just substituting those "wifi" signals for some nerve signals and neurotransmitters.

 

While you are "in" the Warframe you have no sense that you are physically in a VR pod in the Orbiter, and you control the Warframe just as well as if you were in it; you even feel pain through it (as per Valkyr) and maybe can actually die if the Warframe dies (as per Mirage, possibly). 

 

So what's the big deal about physically being in the suit?

Edited December 7, 2015 by Omnimorph

[GnosticCat]

Is there something wrong with trying to persuade other people to your opinion?  It's part of the give and take of life.  Don't worry, if I can't persuade you to reconsider after a short conversation, I won't try and kill you or anything :)

 

From my point of view, I don't get why an exo-suit is any better.  This is part of the philosophical argument around this sort of concept of course ("brain in a vat").  I mean, with VR + Warframe you are "there" in every meaningful sense, in the sense that all the data coming in from the Warframe's sensors and all the signals going out from your brain, including proprioception (sense of having a body) is in exactly the same position as if you were physically inside a suit.

 

The only difference is the distance being crossed by "wifi" signals (or whatever it is).  Effectively, you're just substituting those "wifi" signals for some nerve signals and neurotransmitters.

 

While you are "in" the Warframe you have no sense that you are physically in a VR pod in the Orbiter, and you control the Warframe just as well as if you were in it; you even feel pain through it (as per Valkyr) and maybe can actually die if the Warframe dies (as per Mirage, possibly). 

 

So what's the big deal about physically being in the suit?

I agree. I don't see any advantages to being inside if it is possible to use remote. If we would need to be inside then it would have be hollow thus reducing already limited space for whatever drives these frames. Also frame would be limited by human being inside. If it would not be limited by some void magic then difference between this state and remote control would be quite small I think.

Also I would have to question if this personal presence would be rational considering number of tenno we have is rather limited as in they can't be replaced them if they are lost. So from orokin point of view it would be probably irrational to use already limited number of them by stuffing them into suits.