SneakyErvin

Where do you get that idea from regarding Titania? Silvana is already on the project before it turns into Warframe research by Ballas, that much is clear from the Silver Grove quest. Then that Titania also follows Silvana back to earth to protect her also indicates it is a Proto, since it would make no sense if a tenno was involved, because the whole deal with the tenno is that they rise up unexpectedly at the end of the old war, during the victory celebrations. Protea could potentially be a second wave frame. But it is doubtful since the whole tenno involvement was very hush-hush as we know from The Sacrifce quest. So would Ballas really grant a "simple" Corpus such a gift and risk knowledge about dualism being revealed? And read the Kullervo lore again. He is clearly still around when the tenno get involved in the Warframe project. The timeline is described quite well in all of his crimes. Eventually Kullervo got caught and sent to Duviri and managed to create his own warden through strong emotions, while the timelessness of the void results in Kullervo occupying all his cells and reliving his crimes all at once. It isnt some afterlife place, it is something created by the Drifter and his strong emotions along with the "help" of the book. For Kullervo to end up there after his death or in any non-physical way the Drifter would need to know about frames and him specifically. But as it is, the Drifter knows nothing of what occured in the Orokin empire beyond the point of the Zariman. So there is no possible way for him to have strong emotions about frames or Kullervo in order to create one through conceptual embodyment. There is also even less of a chance that the Drifter would know anything about the relationship between Kullervo and Ballas in order to place Ballas as the warden in order to oversee Kullervo. And a Prime for Kullervo needs no loophole, since Kullervo is just a regular frame in the end. He is not Revenant or Caliban, so whatever makes up the original Kullervo that commited the crimes will be stored on some form of Orokin blueprint even after his punishment. Even Xaku needs few loopholes, since it can be explained as simply as an experiment using destroyed frames turned out highly successful to the point where it became its own unique frame worthy of priming, or in the case the prime was first, worthy to have the data stored in order to be able to produce more. Rev was an issue since Rev isnt the original, it is the corrupted and altered version of whatever the original was, and Caliban is sentient made. But since Albrecht is a helminth and frame researcher aswell, him priming things now could be a viable explaination.

We dont actually know about the handcrafted thing. Since not all proto frames went away. There are more and more of the old that imply that the version we find and make use of to make our "normal" version is a proto long lost due to one reason or another. Kullervo makes this quite obvious with the timeline of his story and crimes. Kullervo, Sevagoth, Titania and Protea (Prime) are likely all Protos. Kullervo we know is one, Sevagoth is likely one due to the sentience of his shadow in the story, Titania follows her creator and protects her (sounds very similar to the Kullervo story) and Protea (Prime) seems to be the canon first version of her provided to Granum, the version he based the specter on that we fight and then use to make the "normal" version. It also goes inline with what Varzia tells us, that some started out as primed. Those made after the proto uprising were very likely just new versions of the proto using the data from it to try and make a version that would be less hostile. Like we can read in the Rhino lore, where they mention that they've gone through and discarded several. One can wonder how many more of the "normal" versions we make were initially proto or prime now that we have the Kullervo story that shows that it wasnt impossible for the protos to "blend in" and survive. Earlier we just wrote them off as "tenno" frames made in order to sustain the tenno war effort against the Orokin during the fall.

No that is me saying that the tech in WH40k is far into the future. It is one thing to have certain types of energy weapons, it is another to have those that are several centuries and millennias ahead of the tech that defines another setting/genre (and even our own time). Space travel at the level it is available in WH40k is also not on a level expected in a diesel setting. Space travel for instance in a Dieselpunk setting is about as advanced as the space age, you are still mostly bound to Earth since space is still the great unknown and something feared. It also takes time to get anywhere. In WH40k it takes place across several systems with FTL travel widely used by all of the Imperium including what you wanna call dieselpunk IG. They are also at a point where they've explored the whole Milky Way galaxy. Plus no one has said it needs to take place in that era time. The tech however aswell as the aestethics that define the genre are based on and limited by the advancements of the time (end of WW1 up into a bit of the cold war), including some experimental/theoretical science we actually never saw. But going from that to what you have in WH40k is a massive leap. It's as if you have no concept of varying degrees of technological levels for any single thing. Just because Dieselpunk may have space travel it doesnt mean WH40k is Dieselpunk because it also has space travel, since the two are of widely different advancements. Same with energy weapons, where Dieselpunk may have some but 40k has it widespread and far far more advanced. Dieselpunk era might dream of atomic warfare slightly more widespread, in 40k atomic warfare comes in the size of a pistol to that of a cannon that can split a planet in half or turn it into small pebbles floating in space. Same as mentioned with computers, Dieselpunk may have what they dreamt of during the diesel era, while 40k has things similar to a smartphone, or a direct interface into your brain, or someone turned into a computer in order to live on and keep serving in the shape of a walking tomb of death and destruction or as a servant to their master. Not to mention things like the Rosarius which is a personal powerful force field the size of a necklace. Or all the insanely advanced medical technologies within 40k. You need to actually read and understand 40k, not just look at some pictures.

One "true" tenno and then beyond that we dont know exactly. It does get a little shifty and wonky since the introduction of the Drifter, since we can now see several Drifters running around even though only the "true" tenno experiences the story and is the Drifter. Though that oddity really started way back with "unique" frames that really shouldnt be widespread due to where they come from. Unless of course the "true" tenno has some black market Warframe chop-shop cloning service selling fake Gucci Umbras, Kullervos and Revs to other tenno in the dojos or relays. And all liches and sisters he has spared work in the sweatshops creating them, for 3 meals of ramen or rice a day.

It is likely tied to their damage attenuation. Alot of the massive damage from Tragedy is likely eaten by their attenuation since it might consider it several attacks hitting at a very high rate as it consumes all 4 stacks and tick in one go. If you leave the ticks to do their work you kill acolytes very quickly with Dark Verse at just 4 stacks. Mechs I havent really given a thought to since I tend to just go ham on them with melee or guns, though I tend to do that with acolytes aswell. It tends to be DVx2 and then chop-chop as Wordwarden adds some nice skaldic art of blood, fire and death.

None really. For me it is more mixing in Wrathful Advance or Roar on the frames I use for EDA. I practically use either Dante, Kullervo, Inaros or Nezha. Inaros and Nezha either getting Roar or Wrathful instead of their #1. It depends a bit what missions are involved along with modifications. Dante replacing his #1 and Kullervo replacing his #4 with Roar.

I dont know why you assume I have a distaste for energy weapons. I'm simply saying energy weapons are not a Diesel era thing, meaning 40k is well beyond a Diesel era theme. Since the technological peak of the setting isnt tied to what was achievable prior to, during and shortly after the world wars period, or what was fantasized at the time. Fusion and energy cell weaponry, caseless ammunition, energy melee weaponry, cybernetics, men that are practically turned A.I but not being actual A.I, Warp space travel made possible due to something similar, weapons on the scale that can destroy planets, advanced space travel overall and many other things are just far beyond what you try to label even just the IG as.

Dante didnt change much since we already had both Frost and Styanax. He just got a slightly better version since he is the first frame with innate group OG. The first part leaves you with nothing to do, although people that complain about AoE guns are severely exaggerating their impact on what they get to do in a mission. The second part however doesnt alienate anyone. It makes 1 part of a kit less useful in specific group combinations. Which can be avoided in order to get 100% use and sync out of the kit by doing pre-mades. OG is in the end just a layer of defense ontop of another, if it falls off the other pieces are there to protect. It would really just be an issue if it blocked some important effect people would rely on. And in the end it comes down to what would happen in PuGs and the design intent of a whole frame. Change OG like I mentioned so it is personal, then all of a sudden Dante would no longer be a support frame, and it would only be relevant to make other support frame players happy in PuGs. It is not a class based game where we suddenly got another mandatory class for a group invalidating others, since you wont end up with a Dante while playing Citrine or Trin often enough for this to be an issue, since we have 56 different frames that may end up in your PuGs. And in a premade it shouldnt be a problem, since if you for some reason must see guaranteed use of every single skill, then you simply just dont stack different defense options or include frames that cannot benefit from whatever defense you bring. And OG isnt disruptive. It is just a defense option. It would be just as disruptive if it turns into a personal buff for every frame, since that poor Citrine that needs to see her Shell do something at all times would be equally heartbroken and pissy if she ended up with a Rhino, Dante and Styanax after an OG change, since none of those would benefit from her welfare Shell, because they'd all be under the effects of OG 24/7. It is a mind ghost the idea that OG is dusruptive, because your skills are just still in effect incase the OG breaks. Why? Because goes into it. Rev has MS with the augment, that is it. His kit is overall just bad otherwise. It is also a disruptive skill in its current state since it practically ruins whole builds, which can result in the group overall dealing less damage simply because Rev brought augmented Mesmer. All of the other support frames just bring so much more than Rev can ever do. The skill also needs constant upkeep compared to many others due to only having 5 charges for group memebers, it also does jack S#&$ for companions and specters etc. Also, no one is catered to atm, frames just work as they work. What we look at is the "issues" of PuG, where you sign up fully aware of how things might be and that not all of your skills may be useful among the 3 other random people you decide to play with. And if you want OG changed you should also consider every other skill that doesnt work together with another or itself. Since this is an old "issues" in the game not just connected to OG and DR skills. 2x Wisp, 2x Saryn, 2x Dante, 2x Oberon, 2x Rev, 2x Rhino etc. where one is invalidated by the other since the skills do not stack. So getting a Dante and a Citrine in the same group is really no different from getting 2x or more of other frames in the same group. Atleast with a Citrnine and a Dante the Citrine Shell is there incase OG drops. Which applies to every other form of group survival improvement aswell. OG doesnt go from being the best to worse than those worse than it just because the need isnt really there, since the need isnt really there for those worse options either, so they remain worse than OG still. Speed is just speed though and sometimes ends up making things perform worse than their modded intended state. Dante still provides simple pure extra damage and status effects that do not interfear with any of your modded intent. A Noctua modded for heat will simply provide a bunch of extra slash and heat damage along with extra individual heat and slash procs as you attack. And "finish stuff faster" only applies to the one-off missions where you dont really care about anything anyways. Places where I wouldnt even consider which frame might have the best support and I likely take something that is simply fast to clear the mission with overall, with little thought on the others in the group. In missions where you stay, the shear output from Dante along with his buffs and TTL support makes him a better choice than Wisp, since he doesnt have a single skill that interrupts the flow or builds of others. Shock motes are one of those skills in the game that really gets my eye twitching. Even playing solo I mostly use health mote since it is the only way to allow me to build for high health without screwing up my weapons modding or sprint speed aswell. And shock mote I wouldnt wanna really touch even with a ten foot pole. But if you dont need OG you dont need the extra orbs either most likely. And Terrify is probably the second skill in the game that makes my eye twitch due to the massive range and forced fear scattering enemies all over and slowing down the flow and pace of missions. Used to use it on Gyre, but quickly got mostly annoyed by the skill, even if used with augment so enemies scatter less. And on Nekros when I actually play him I go "nooooo!" when I butterfinger my way to a Terrify and see enemies run off like they were in Home Alone. Citrine status is bad in comparison to Dante. They work in two different ways. Citrine is additive. So if your weapon has 20% SC it gives 20% additional SC at baseline (100%). Dante has a multiplicative version in his status weakness along with the increased status damage. Citrine modded to reach 100% status with a 20% status weapon means she'd end up with 120% SC on the weapon with her buff active. Dante modded to reach 100% status with a 20% status weapon means he'd end up with 150% SC on the weapon with the debuff active. Add +100% strength per frame and you'd get 140% SC for Citrine and 200% SC for Dante with the same weapon.

Seems like it will be a new system completely. Of course the interaction might stay due to some slip up, but they are clear with the intent that what type of health you attack wont matter regarding the bonus damage (or resistance).

Just be aware that the new system wont have the same rules for when you get or do not get bonus damage from an element. Currently it is based on the health type you attack, so if a target has felsh and armor and the armor is still partially there you get bonus damage based on the armor resitances and weaknesses. With the new system it will just be based on the faction or subfaction on the node where you do the mission, it wont matter if the enemy has just health, health+armor, health+shields or health+armor+shields, you will always benefit from the bonus damage that is listed for the damage type on the node. So versus Grineer, if it says +corrosive on the node then corrosive will deal + worth of extra damage no matter if the grineer are fully stripped or not. The main question will be if adding corrosive shards or not will be worth it with the new scaling, or if damage will rip through things fast enough even with just 80%(90 with heat) removed. And since it seems the cap will be based on rating i.e 2700, removing the last 10% seems meh, since it will just be 270 armor, or if you go with just corrosive 540 armor. They could potentially go with 90% as the cap and "infinite" armor rating, but that wouldnt really change much, since we'd end up with what we have now or worse, where the first few ticks ould do nothing until you get the armor below 2700 since that is the breakpoint for 90%. They said they wanted to streamline it though from the bottom and up to the cap, so I assume they'll increase the reduction gained from lower armor while capping it at 2700 for 90% reduction.

That is what I mean is wrong, looking at only one side. Need to account for all factors in the end. We are just looking at two types of people here, DE has more info on what the spread looks like in reality. It really comes down to whom is their biggest income and if a change over to attract more sporadic buyers impact that too much or not. If it was heavily influenced by whales, shifting over to cheaper prices could be beneficial since it is possible the whales would spend as much by just buying more things. However WF is very limited on whale bait. Yeah but it is guaranteed. The time investment in getting them is minimal, you just have to wait while picking the order of preference. The thing that could have made it better is having a pool for all of them and picking any 2 per week. I'm not sure what you mean with we have both. Of course people are fine with slight power increases, that is my whole point. People complained because they wanted that small power increase instantly with RJ items, which then made the system completely pointless since it automatically dropped 90% rolls. Well "had" isnt really specific. I had issues with him early on aswell due to Dark Verse having problems. Right now there arent really any issues with him. It would have been fixed all the same if people were actually honest. Since many of the issues that remained that people complained about werent even issues tied to Tragedy. But somehow they never realized these issues or bothered to give feedback on them prior to thinking it was Tragedy issues. Those issues with LoS were rooted in Dark Verse since his release day, but the riots didnt start until people couldnt nuke whole maps anymore. Meaning that many of those people claiming they only ran high level content never actually did, and relied on just Tragedy to nuke low level crap, hence why they never noticed the issues on Dark Verse, since they never relied on the detonator part of the skill in the content they ran. So if they missed priming enemies due to the DV LoS bug it didnt matter to them, since things would still die to the basic slash damage of Tragedy on cast. I'm just saying people shouldnt blame DE for bait and switch or false marketing, since the things they imply with that are never a reality on DEs part. We get treated with "You know nothing Jon snow!" when it comes to how a frame actually works before we get our hands on it. We see some showcase in a Devstream, but we never know the actual mechanics behind every skill. I still didnt know Qorvex pillars required LoS since I saw it in the recent LoS fix notes, since I've played him so little and still read through all his skills etc. I dont care about the size of changes aslong as they are done for a reason. And with Dante it was just a slight shift in playstyles for some while keeping his potential fully intact for damage and support. I'm happy the nerfs happened and the screaming started since it also buffed his wordwarden and gave us the pageflight damage buff aswell as an intended addition. The librarian is one mean mofo with a weapon now aswell.

We are are talking about the imperium and the IG here. I'm fully aware of the different worlds, I even mentioned it to Tarin earlier regarding IG regiments. Within the imperium the tech levels are simply far off into the future to classify anything used there are steam/diesel/cyber or anything similar when it comes to IG. Let me put it this way. WH40k is like Star Trek, it doesnt change into another genre because the technological level of a planet that is visited is low. It is at that point just showing regular evolution of a society. These parts are also not in focus of the overarching story, these parts will also evolve within that story. However when you have a story defined by a specific advancement level it tends to stay there and keep defining that story. So no, WH40k does not have those different punk settings, since it is just regular evolution of a planet they describe. IG for instance could have been dieselpunk if it was seperate from the imperium and had its own story and tech and that tech came with diesel era limitations. That isnt how IG works though, since they are part of the imperium of man and use mechanicus level equipment. All homeworlds are either advancing naturally or they get boosted through the imperium when their specific expertise is seen as in need. And when that need rises the world gets assimilated into the imperium and the people given equipment so their expertise can be utilized together with it and imperial doctrines in training. And if the tech level of a homeworld is high enough it will likely also recieve the license to build imperial equipment and at times also modify it to their special needs. That is just one of many and depends on the model of the Russ and what the purpose is for it, aswell as which regiment (or even chapter) will use it. It can also carry several energy/fusion based weapons in addition to whatever main cannon it uses. The main cannon can be designed for close quarter fights and all the way up to long range artillery use and in the case of some they can be fully designed as anti-infantery vehicles or a mix. The whole point that there is wide access to energy weapons for the whole faction is why it is too advanced to begin with. Or you dont think weapons housing a fusion core would be considered advanced technology well beyond what we have today even? And we arent even talking vehicle mounted fusion based weapons, there are handheld versions aswell the size of a large pistol.

To a point yeah but it is now confined to "just" a room if the room is open enough. Previously he could stand in the middle of a defense and hit a whole map without actually moving, or just blow his DV as he moved through other tiles and nuke like Enox in 3 simple button presses. If we compare that to Enox she needs either others to do something or need to do something herself with her weapons. Limiting the nuke since it requires build up for map wide nuke. And Lavos that also reaches far is tied to a long CD that also depends on enemy density in order to refil at a rather acceptable rate. The main difference now is that others in the group can get away from him and do something. You cant really run away from a 50m+ nuke, you can move to another room when that 50m+ nuke has LoS. Honestly at that point they need to change all skills or well damage avoiding effects. Since one will always override the need of another in a group, including two of the same frame. And if you start to change OG you also need to account for solo play exsisting, so if you change it to cater to other DR effects in groups you also need to keep it reliable for solo play without those effects included. So I'd say at that point make all OG skills personal, then others can take care of their own survival. The only real problem with OG/Mesmer Skin is that it was/is intrusive on builds that require a condition. DR and Armor are not required conditions, it doesnt matter if you dont get to benefit from them, so OG is fixed and the thing that needs fixing is the #*!%ing Mesmer Skin augment. Outside of that a person picking a DR frame instead of OG had no interest to bring the best defense buffing in the game when they entered the group, so shouldnt be catered to either incase their defense gets outshined by another. And people doing premades likely have a perfectly working brain to figure out which defenses they need/want to bring. If they wanna change OG they should do so if they simply find it too good as a defensive option, not to cater to other skills. Unless you say you wanna allow DR and armor to sync with OG, which would just be ridiculous. Ok I'm starting to question your Dante experience again. I mean, these are some serious exaggerations. He practically brings a 45sec baseline Mesmer Skin effect. He has one of the best damage buffs for groups, since he is the only one that provides others with slash (outside of direct targets hit by Seeking Talons), it also deals damage based on how fast you deal damage. Even his specter grants a reasonable boost to damage in its unmodded state. The others arent really coming close. Wisp bring unwanted speed for many, since people have likely already built enough to their needs, and more can break things, plus it does not provide reload speed. Her health is just health along with poor regen. OG will outshine that no matter the frame that provides it. Trinity has been worthless for years, Citrine while great "only" provides DR and Orbs. Nekros practically does nothing worthwhile since he does what a pet can do, add health orbs. Oh and he clutters up the screen with shadows, that sometimes block friendly projectiles etc due to bubbles. Harrow is pointless in groups and rarely has the time to get his crit up in a group since while he tries to stack damage, others are killing things. And in this day and age of the game energy is already a trivialized things in any proper build, so those benefits arent really high on the list. Most people even tend to replace Harrows energy reg buff since it is his weakest skill in the kit. And then for Hildryn, who needs a dedicated armor stripper when everyone in the group gets access to slash on their weapons?

That angel to the right is looking hilarious. One could wonder, did God practice his sculpting game on the angels before he made humans? "Fuuuuuuck! Oh well into the Angel bin with you!" "Yes! Finaly two acceptably looking minis, of into the Eden diorama you go" "Hey where did that apple go? And what is that noise?" Would love incarnon versions of those weapons. Could draw inspiration from things like Sancti Magistar at that point and have some with an incarnon form that heals on heavy attacks and so on. Or something similar to Arcane Reaper tied to some ranged attack on the scythe similar to Hate, where if the projectile kills the group is granted armor and slight health reg or something.

I can see a few nice combos from the changes. Since we'll face more health and less armor I might go nourish on my current Roar using frames and then mod ranged weapons for corrosive+heat and melee with Blast+Electric for influence. That is if Blast becomes something good. Otherwise I'll just stay with Roar and change guns to corrosive+heat and continue running viral+electric on influence melee. Guns modded for heat will likely also have HM removed in order to utilize more heat.

They went through their unique features in the devstream. Something something if the buff from each of them is active the something something buffs they provide are strengthened. But I wont be impressed unless they go boom like Darth Emo's weapons in incarnon form. Not a big angel fan, atleast Jade seems to draw inspiration from the more morbid versions and less the snooty, nooty, fancy, pancy, purdy, boyband reject, church S#&$e you see on murals and windows etc. If one of those came after me I'd probably end up laughing myself to death in a JJJ manner.

Well no. Dieselpunk and WH40k draw inspiration from certain parts in human history, both converge around WW1 and WW2, one more so than the other. Dieselpunk is inspired by both the tech and the aestethics while WH40k draws some inspiration from the aestethics. Like super huge tanks as envisioned by the crazy man in the funny mustache. But the tech in those massive tanks of 40k is just so much more advanced. You are oversimplifying the whole Imperial Guard things. Since IG draws inspiration from all of human history based on which regiment they belong to, just as the Space Marines draw inspiration from all of human history. I mean, there are over 100 different types of IG Regiments of varying cultural backgrounds. All using equipment designed by the Adeptus Mechanicus (Not Imperial Guard), which exsists of machine-men of varying degrees, some more machine than man and others the opposite. Diesel era limits are long long long long gone. WH40k just doesnt have anything that is primitive in that sense. The worlds within the Imperium are for instance always as advanced as the Imperium while leaving room for their special expertise tied to their home world culture. By claiming it can match Diesel (or any other defining style) throws out the rules that makes the genre what it is. Since the defining part is that era (steam, diesel, cyber etc.) and the technology expected from it and a few centuries ahead. Especially when you look at things that draw inspiration from the past and where we have further defining cut offs after that. This results in further seperation when the setting is based on humanity, since you have passed those other real milestones aswell and likely some theoretical future advancement aswell. So unless there is a storyline that sets up the worldbuilding in a way where humanity suddenly advances differently from that point or a future one it wont be that type of era setting. 40k for instance doesnt have that, it is literally 38000-ish years further ahead in time with massive technological steps taken since the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50, and even 60s. There is no lore that describes a setback either in human history. However there has been a stall in human tech advancements over the last few thousand years in 40k. Meaning many things used are Horus Heresy tech levels. The Imperium hates A.I for instance, so instead of A.I it takes the shape of the living being transfered into tech. While at the same time the kin of humanity (the squat or well formerly known as that) have no problem making use of advanced A.I to run their societies etc. And regarding punk. Well no, since the idea of punk in cyberpunk and any other punk refers to the "working" people of society and their role and struggles. In 40k we have none of that really. Even the early stories regarding Rogue Traders centers around nobility, with no intent at all about any uprising or punking towards something. All they want is to pay off alien connections and the imperium so they can get their hands on artifacts and riches really. Most other stories depict soldier stories, all out war settings or the investigations made by an inquisitor or arbites uncovering xeno or chaos incursions. The punk-level just isnt there. It is just on a far larger scale which more resembles all out war between nations. Where those "uprising" elements in society are really just insurgents or military trying to fight an occupant. I mean, we arent even on "punk" levels that could be connected to Star Wars, where you have actual rebels uniting to take out one overarching oppressive ruler, and not several different "nations" fighting over dominion. Calling 40k punk is like saying LotR is whateverpunk really. In the grim darkness of the future there is only war. I think that sums up what WH40k is overall.

I think a big reason why Dante got LoS-nerfed while others can still wipe maps is because DE dont want to add more problems to the pile, and maybe hopefully intend to start cracking down on those aswell. I'm totally with you on the part that you might feel it is more boring. And I respect that opinion since you dont try to scew it into being an issue of power. Which cant be said when it comes to many others. I most places you can unless you find yourself constantly in areas with alot of solid wall. I have a hard time finding those places myself. But it is likely also due to how I prefer my flow when picking a killing floor. If I need to move DV is enough to kill and move, especially versus armor since it is forced slash. Sadly Noctua is counter productive to wordwarden and wordwarden is counter productive to Noctua. And it kinda becomes just another Exalted problem in the end. Since even if Noctua can deal heaps of damage, you are better off modding it for wordwarden and using a regular weapon to pump out the extra damage provided by wordwarden. Since if you mod Noctua to be used you end up with the same damage on wordwarden and recieve less damage from the buff aswell due to "worse" modding. If modded for wordwarden you can get a free extra element or more, along with slash for whatever weapon you otherwise use. And since it is based around the attack rate of your weapon it can pump out alot of extra damage and statuses, which not only deals damage but adds further damage from gundition overload/CO. Which is great if you run Influence, since you need electric on your melee at that point, so you cant slot heat, but wordwarden provides you with that heat instead at a high rate. And this whole wordwarden thing is also what makes playing a full caster Dante less appealing for me. Why it doesnt trigger on Dark Verse similar to how Fractured Blast directs the crystal on Citrine is beyond me. Never had Dante stop an ability aside from DV and not a single time since the most recent fix to it. I never experienced it with Tragedy since I didnt play him on the thursday that he got the bugged LoS added to Tragedy. I played him again on the saturday, right after that LoS friday fix and have had no issues since aside from a few on DV, which are also gone now. So I wonder what the bug is if some still experience it. I use the same amount as before, in that room I position myself high (or jump detonate) if things are below, since at that point no side is blocked by the center platform supporting the mirror thingy. If I stand lower with the platform blocking the middle I will obviously not expect to hit, since it is a thick concrete structure. If I stand under the stairs looking into the room I'll hit it all, left/right stair, balconies and lower left/right of platform. They could have, but there is nothing that says it would be better, since it would result in its own issues in other situations. Low levels do play the game aswell. So removing the damage on Tragedy would solve lowbie mapwide nuking, but it wouldnt help newbies that play Dante, since they wouldnt be able to use Tragedy to kill on its own versus a group of enemies in sight either. They dont have the energy management we do, which also needs to be considered.

That is looking at it wrong. Since you also have the people that already spend plenty that would potentially end up spending less by purchasing the items at a lower price suddenly. If you have say 3 special packs a year currently costing $150 and the one spending less buys one and another person buys all 3. Then you'd gain $50 from the lower spender if his budget is $200, since he could suddenly purchase 2 packs a year. But at the same time the person already buying all 3 would make you lose out on $150, since there is no guarantee he will buy something else for $150. So you would risk facing a loss of $100 in the end on those two players. And you are free to have it! Some unique items are allowed to exsist with lengthy investments. And Incarnons arent exactly hard to get either, we just need to wait and do the task the game demands from us and then we own them forever. I'm talking about if practically everything can be bought, which results in everything becoming a slog to get. Quite frankly we have too few "unique" farms in this game. Even the longtime investments that were really just slight power increases got turned into "nao! nao! nao!" items since the community in general want instant gratification. Which practically ruined every reason to keep doing RJ since the items because 90% rolls as baseline, the thing people farmed for over and over earlier. Yes really he is. Because he deals exactly the same (even more) damage compared to before. All that LoS did was remove the ability to wipe low level maps. Since the damage that didnt require LoS previously deals abyssmal amounts in high levels since it is just flat slash damage. The damage that matters comes from detonating your DoTs, which few did to enemies on the other side of a wall for instance, since those mobs were never primed. Yes it was and yes I have. That is the version that lasted for roughly a day. Maybe uhm actually play the frame and dont rely on extremely outdated videos? I hope you are also aware that in one of the videos complaining about Tragedy they are really complaining on a bug on Dark Verse (Dante blocking the skill), which has also been fixed over a week ago by now. So yeah it is a minor thing that doesnt even exsist anymore. And it isnt on DE if someone rushes to buy something based on some random nobody hyping an item. DE did not, and never have, gone out and explained in detail how a frame will work. You get to know that once you own it. So it is on the hypetrain conductors and the passengers if someone ends up buying an item with knowledge about the mechanics prior to purchase, it is not on DE since they do no provide that info. No snipping out of disrespect or any such, just to save space here. You touch on some great things with good observations. Yes, I'm old, thank you for noticing it through the text. And like you say, some of us do indeed laugh when we read the origin assumptions spread regarding some terms. Regarding whale, you mention some older movies aswell. I wonder if the old movie The Sting didnt also refer to whales at some point. Though I havent seen that in a long time so cant really recall. But yeah it is an old term to describe certain gamlers and like you say, they were treated like royalty since they were walking ATMs for the casinos. Cause I mean, why not spend a couple of bucks on the work behind rolling out the red carpet and maybe uncorking a "nice" bottle of while or "champaign" when you can rack in times more from the fool farting cash like a unicorn farting rainbows? I think you are also quite observant on DE and their intent here and I'm of the exact same idea. They are limiting whaling hard in this game. And when we had (before my time) a real whale inviting option with the pets, it quickly was removed because the spending habbits on it was seen as unhealthy by DE. That alone should tell us something about DE and their relation to the playerbase. Right now I guess we have rivens that could still potentially invite whale behavior. We can look at other games that do the opposite. I reserve that I might be wrong on this example, but last I checked Star Citizen really tries to cash in on whales with absurdly high prices on certain ships that help(ed) fund the game. I would like to point out a personal opinion regarding this. I see little wrong with a company having something in their monetization that attracts whales, since those people have the money to throw on it and with few regards regarding how much or on what they spend. Which is beneficial for the rest of us since it helps fund the game for everyone. However, at the same time these things that may attract the whales may also end up attracting those who are just habitual addiction spenders, which is not good in this case. While I am of the opinion that general cash-shop availability should not account for and be limited due to potential addicts, whale setups should, since those things that attract the whales are often not needed for the game to prosper. It reminds me of a friend I had way back when poker (but I hardly even knew her) was the thing. He watched alot of it and was hooked on the idea of whale big spenders. This resulted in him acting that way within his poker circles and just blew his money on nothing. Since he wasnt all that great at poker, but his self image said otherwise since he could namedrop huge players. And that same risk, although not skill related, could end up being a thing in a cash-shop trying to attract whales. Since there is always someone that sees that random neon-god with zero sense in his head puking dollars on random S#&$ in a game since he has the capital to do it, and ends up wanting to be like that and do the same. But instead he just wastes his monthly earning, forcing his wife out on the streets and his kid to a duel to the death with the local house rat over some breadcrumbs or an old dried piece of a salami slice. Anyways. Always a massive pleasure to read what you write @(PSN)slightconfuzzled. If the world was made up of yous we'd have no wars since everyone would either contemplate some wise words or roll on the floor laughing because they got presented a hilarious made up "anecdotal" story. I raise my 🤘 and 🍺 to you. And please never stop being you!

Sure, but you still can, unless you are in very specific situations/areas. Things that are far and few in between. But that is insanely long. From beginning to having a finished build it took me about 30 minutes to have him ready. He isnt a complex frame to build thanks to his stats and straight forward skills. At that point I practically had two setups I experimented a little with, mostly seeing if I should go with more strength+dura or just add efficiency plus capping it. So say an hour total to figure out which build to actually settle with in the slots I had polarized. You can still do that with LoS. The 360 LoS is reliable in its current state. That you exaggerate to the point where you say shadows stop it makes me wonder how much you've played him after that friday patch or more importantly after the recent DV fix. It's is extremely hard to run into a situation where either of the two skills get blocked by anything. My main issue with him since release was DV failing to mark up until it was fixed. I've done the same room and I've had no issues there with hitting things infront of or behind me. I had some issues with priming in Labs (not just that room) prior to the fix, even across a few simple elevations, but nothing since the DV fix. I think they did, and I think most potential feedback regading him being disruptive came from there. I'm more shocked when DE tests things in high level content. DE probably saw the LoS problem from the first change and directly saw an opportunity to fix it and several other similar mechanics instead of just doing something else specifically tied to Tragedy. Doing something that can benefit several different parts is likely seen as more beneficial than doing something very narrow that only affects a single thing. That is how I'd look at it, make this one thing better or make all these things better? I'd go option two without a doubt. Not only due to it fixing several things, but because it also paves the way for further similar implementation in a working state right out the door.

I liked it, but I think the design decision on DEs part was influenced by the playerbase. They saw all these "Remove LoS!", "Remove LoS from Dante!" and so on and went "Oh that is a great idea, lets remove Life Support as a variable in Deep Archemedea from the Dante Unbound update!", then the other guy/gal goes "There is an o in their request aswell" followed by a "🤷‍♂️" from the first guy/gal. So, those that do not like this modifier, blame the Dante crew! could have been true if the modifier wasnt part of the 1.0 Deep release.

IMO Blast should have been the direct damage AoE elemental combo. Where each hit that lands adds an AoE explosion of 5m (or something) based on your modded blast damage similar to how melee influence works. It wouldnt benefit from multishot since it already benefits from multishots by being a status proc.

Variable to a minimal extent. If the mobs are strong enough for you to need to use Tragedy you are bound by a limited amount of DVs in either case, since you need the stack to kill the target when you end up detonating. If the target is weaker you can just aswell just skip Tragedy as it is now. But you didnt invest 20 hours into him. Your invested time is the mastery trip, and I very much doubt you leveled him so slowly that it took you 20h. I'm also curious what part of the caster playstyle went away for you with the nerfs. I'm about to catch up to my Kullervo in kills, playing Dante as nearly pure caster for most of the time spent on him. And I've only spent a fraction of the time on Dante compared to Kullervo, which was my most played frame of 2023. I've also played Kullervo a great deal recently and not only Dante, my Dante has also not had access to a broken Influential Dual Ichor for an extended period of time. Just his skills mostly. And he would have caught up to my Kullervo if I didnt play Kullervo alot recently aswell. Not really something you would expect from an "inconsistent" frame. What exactly in your playstyle changed? Did you rely so much on attacking enemies behind walls? Because his LOS currently works near perfectly thanks to the most recent fix that also made DV work properly. Even in the most cluttered places it works without trouble, the only thing that makes it (DV or Trag) not deal damage are sraight up walls or a solid pilar blocking your view/camera angle. That just makes them look even worse in my eyes. I also expect they've barely touched the frame after any of the fixes, and instead live on assumptions and mob mentality. To me it is understandable that they adjusted him based on those "tenets". Just because something already exsists it doesnt mean the flood gates need to stay open for future releases. And some of those older frames live and die on that hill, their kits practically have nothing else to compensate a removal of those parts. Most of them also require far higher investments while Dante started out with high stats across the board on every skill. Tragedy for instance has insane base damage and the largest radius in the game. Even if DE were to nerf the range instead, the abuse at lower levels would be there, since even with neutral strength he'd kill whatever he touches with Tragedy while covering the whole map. Because due to his high base skill stats, he can skip adding duration etc. So an adjustment to make him less disruptive at low levels was to add LoS. Though, moving his base damage over to the detonation on Tragedy would have also worked.

I dont see why a $50 spender would suddenly spend $100. Wasnt their restriction that they couldnt pay more than 50 to start with? You'd have DE sell what was otherwise worth $100 for $50, you wouldnt see the $50 spender suddenly spending $100. That $50 spender would just get $100 value from his $50, or be able to cut it down to $25 and get the same as he got previously for $50. And this second part is just good, since too many items should not be buyable with cash. Since when games start to introduce more and more in a cash shop, the harsher the drop tables get for that loot. And the Dante people exaggerate most of it, since he is just as powerful as before, they just removed a low level nuking thing really. Which is likely what most people used him for since it required less than any other frame since he has such insanely high base stats on everything coupled with low costs. They also claim it was bait and switch, even though there was never any info released regarding how Dantes kit would work specifically. It's also good if they wont buy the next bundle since it will result in less abusive comments towards the devs over minor changes. Most of what we've seen coming from the Dante crowd is pure filth.

I was just used to it from the start, since I already enjoyed my caster Dagath, which is practically built as a full rotation RPG caster going through 1 to 4 constantly. But yeah I can see how Dante is spammy. Heck, my main gripe with Dante is that they placed his 3 buff icons in the buff bar and not above his tome UI. Resulting in me rebuffing more often than needed, since I follow my Roar duration instead, since it is easy to spot on the skill bar. While tracking the Dante buffs among 2 full lines of buffs all of the same color is nearly impossible. Yeah it's mostly on the real defense targets, including the living version where it seems to have its own will regarding how long it wants to last. Buffed one up to max together with the group but the next second I turn over to the defense target the OG is gone. I think the people should get used to live service games instead. Since this is normal where I come from. I also have a very hard time seeing how this would make him less spammy. You'd remove some tragedy casts, but you'd also just replace them with more DV casts. The people that also wave the money card are sadly just exaggerating. They purchsed the frame without knowing anything regarding how the skills would work, so would have purchased him with or without LoS at release just as happily. And the time invested is practically nothing. My total mastery time on him was about 30 minutes. The forma investment might be harsh for some, but not exactly a big investment in the end. These are also people that act as if he is unplayable, it isnt a playstyle angle like you have, they are literally calling him weak and unplayable, some going to extents of claiming a drop from S tier to D tier etc. These people should not be listened to, since they only talk random crap and have likely barely touched the frame or taken him to anything but low level S#&$. Most likely will also just want the AoE back to keep destroying low level S#&$. Hence why we see all the "remove LoS but reduce range", cos they dont care about priming at all. And they know that even with a 20m range they can dump strength for range mod and still wipe the star chart with neutral strength and low modding investments. I completely understand your personal angle, since you enjoyed a specific playstyle. And we all grow attached to things. But the exaggerating drooling masses? I have squat sympathy for them. Sorry to hear that. To whomever you lost! 🍺 Have you tried him properly after the changes, since he still plays very strong as a caster frame. There is really no problem playing him as full caster, full platform or a hybrid.