CrownOfShadows

Hm, I'm not sure exactly, but they do somehow. I did my first run where the only 'good' frame available was Gyre. I left for like 4 hours and then I came back and it had rotated, and I went with my epic and underrated Banshee instead. It would 100% be good to have a timer if there's a refresh though, like Circuit. NOTE: I completed the full first section to unlock elite on my initial run. Maybe that resets it? No clue.

Well, it's better than permadeath for sure. Yeah it was after they'd died, not just downed and awaiting a revive. You actually get to skip the operator phase completely, you just need to kill the physical angel, so it's kinda chill that way. Just warframes vs angel. Yeah the angel was REALLY far away for us (and from where the fallen tenno was), but we all went out there anyway.

Yeah, as I said in another post, I sympathize, but there's an entire other end of the spectrum where people have built EVERYTHING and so there is almost no such thing as a bad pick (some stuff still really sucks to get ngl). This is the same reason late game player don't mind the circuit but people still climbing hate it. The best thing to do would be to either: Create difficulty that doesn't revolve around a completed arsenal, but rather around your 'best' equipment. People can have a pretty bad arsenal but still have killer setup, and that's what should be the factor. Gate "end-game" content to the people who are truly in the end-game, who have everything built. Both are fair options imo. Right now people without completed arsenals but that have access to archimedea are experiencing real pain over this, they "should" be able to play it because it's available to them, but it's really not designed for them Same problem with the Circuit SP - it's designed for people who have everything and just want to jump in and play with whatever, whereas people who don't have everything maxed are like... uh, how is this fair? Which is totally legit. DE needs to either gate, or quasi-gate, that content or create content that works differently (or both)

After about a minute or so(? can't remember exactly, but it wasn't instant) it says "Kill the void angel to revive the fallen tenno" and it marks the void angel on the map with a [mandatory red always red never anything but red] icon. Defeating it will revive them, sure enough. The angel itself does do some appreciable damage so tackle it only if you feel confident. A couple of us were downed fighting it. Very similar mechanic to Arbitration, except you just have to kill it. If you mean just revive and not death, then yeah I just had to stand there as my warframe and revive, and if I started getting aggro I had to stop and run away or turn to kill the nearby enemies. Edit: I'm not sure how this interacts with the 3 minute timer mentioned in the patch notes. Fresh Edit: I experienced it - the timer does kick in and it shows it to you on your screen (if you're the dead one). I guess your team has 3 minutes to kill the angel.

I completely sympathize, this is the reason circuit is so criticized and why there are so many leeches there. BUT, I feel obligated to argue the other end of the spectrum a litte. If I saw Citrine, Khora and Baruuk I'd think to myself: holy cow they gave me the best frames in the game, no matter what I'm ok. If I saw Steflos, Hema and Rauta, I'd say Hema sucks, Steflos is mid at best, but I can work with Rauta for sure If I saw Catabolyst, Tysis and Bolto, I'd say yeah that sucks I don't have secondary this game. (Catabolyst can be really good with it's recent augment but I haven't actually built for it) If I saw Nepheri, Dual Ether and Skana, I'd say - awesome got an incarnon (primsa skana) and the dual ether is plenty serviceable too, better than dual heat swords by a mile, and nepheri is wonky but serviceable. The reason is because I've invested in all of these weapons and frames, many of which I know intimately. Randomization caters to the end game, where people have everything, where they've even taken the time to build it up. I never get a bad selection in the circuit - why - because everything is built and ready to rumble, even if it kinda sucks, I can still get by with it (with a few exceptions of course, some stuff still truly does suck). Taking the second example here: I'd be elated to have Mag + Prisma Angstrum Incarnon, Kuva Karak, Prisma skana - that rocks. I know, this is super elitist and 90% of the WF playerbase or something can't relate, but when it comes to deep archimedea - it's being presented as end game content (I think), so... I mean that's basically the end game, having everything and being ready to use it and not having anything to use it on heh. It's a problem of not sufficiently restricting content i think. They're trying to make end game content available to everyone, and that just will always be frustrating for everybody. The big problem is how do you make end game content with desirable rewards without the rest of the playerbase feeling left out.

*Oh and a note on death cascades: I'm not sure if the same handicaps are presented to everyone but one of mine was that transference was disabled, meaning I couldn't use operator, meaning that I had to stand in place with my frame to revive. *Also another thing - these aren't SP enemies(?). And you can tell, despite their high levels they melt pretty easily. I was rather expecting SP modifiers... and the spawn rate is probably a thing here too.

I completely agree with your sentiments. They can make really hard content while still allowing us our full arsenal and all our tools (and without shutting off all our abilities, or using invulnerability or crazy attenuation). Handicaps are never a good form of difficulty for the reason you say: it's artificial. We want real difficulty.

Tried it solo with full handicaps first - that was a bit too hard given the selection, so I went pub. It was fine, I only had to make one adjustment to my build for better energy. Alchemy was a little painful because the enemy spawn rate was low, took forever. I was worried about disruption but those necramechs weren't as hard as I thought they might be, at least with 4 of us. Nobody died until the very last conduit on the last mission, but that started a bit of cascade of deaths, we got through it though. I didn't know there was a failsafe to bring them back - that's nice, appreciate that, I think that's good, especially since they sunk all the time into the missions up to that point. It didn't feel any more difficult than netracells, it's basically netracells with circuit randomization and a few other handicaps. I don't mind it, I think it's fine, and the rewards seem fine. 3 missions for what I got is fair - especially if you compare it to archon hunts which are also 3 missions. People who struggle with circuit randomization are going to dislike this but people who have a robust arsenal will be fine with it. It's not the end-game content I was hoping for, that's the main thing I'm down about.

You and I have very different definitions of "toxic" Nerf requests are usually coming from a real place of pain. Normally nobody wants their equipment nerfed. When somebody says 'this is way too strong' is it because they're trying to troll the community? No. It's because they're experiencing a problem. "Toxic" is malicious. If you think making a balance request is malicious, you haven't experienced 1/10000000 of what a gamer community can do to you.

Calling for nerfs is not toxic. It's not like this is coming out of the blue. Stop and consider for a millisecond where all these requests are coming from maybe? Or not, y'know, just live in your little echo chamber of 'I hate DE and I hate everyone and no game need to be balanced ever because reasons' Wait, what were the reasons again?

You're an oxy moron. Essentially you are saying nobody matters but you.

Whining about nerfs when they haven't even happened yet is even more foolish

This is completely false of course. We play together and what people do affects others. It's a coop game. We exist in a social space, this is not a single player game. And even a single player game needs to be balanced. People ruining other people's game has an impact, yes it does. The people who pretend that what they are doing doesn't impact anyone else are the ones who are toxic. The people who slam DE for taking appropriate action for the benefit of all are the criminal element. Civilize yourself. Acknowledge others. Respect others. Dial back the selfishness and petulance. Graduate from kindergarten. Think about the greater good, about the community you live in. And you haven't even seen the nerf numbers yet fcol

The idea that a PvE game doesn't need to care about balance is so foolish. YES, it is WAY less important than in PvP, but we're all playing together. What we do affects other people. It's not a solo game, WF is a coop at heart. When something gets out of control it affects other players, and that is the criteria DE has repeatedly explained. And it is totally legit. This "never nerf anything" idea wouldn't even work in a purely solo game. Single players games, believe it or not, are balanced by the devs to be engaging and fun. ALL games are. Nobody, not even you, wants a game where they have to do nothing. Remove all challenge, remove all fun. Game design 101. PvP games require the most balance. Co-op the next most. <---------- THIS IS WARFRAME RIGHT HERE Single player the lowest rung, but honestly still pretty high compared to zero balance. Real life none.

The visual feedback is good... ...................... ................. ............ .................................................................................................................................................................................................

Well the thing I'm saying is that you can keep the QoL and also keep the difficulty by just changing how the visual feedback is displayed. It doesn't have to be one or the other. We don't have to kill the mode to get visual feedback in there. I actually can get behind this. I think buffing the demolishers and especially making them more like warriors would be a really fun addition, where not only do you have to find them and stop them but you have to engage in a real fight with them (as opposed to just pumping them full of bullets while they ignore you). Another thing that might be cool is to keep them as they are but give them escorts, so you have to fight the escorts - that might be too difficult though, depending - you could have a slower pace variant with this maybe, where the demolisher doesn't move quite so fast but has a heavy guard.

Yup, solo is the way I play these. Every so often I try one pub and it always makes me so frustrated that I'm like "oh yeah, I remember now, back to solo" Super ironic given that they were setup up to be "solo is a no go" They seem to be planning the same thing for archimedea we'll see how that goes, hopefully the mission design isn't as bad.

I remain completely mystified by what DE's vision of warframe overguard is for the long term. If you introduce something like this on top of everything else, you should have a plan for it. The frames chosen to have overguard are bizarre. The hyper-sharing of overguard is bizarre. The high numbers and high regen rate of it are bizarre. Like what is the point of it? Is it supposed to be new survival mechanic? But then why does its scaling suck? Is it meant to be a soft increase in general EHP? Then why doesn't everyone have access to it and why is it so trivial to replenish in huge quantities? I'm just really confused about what it's place in our arsenal is meant to be. It's on track to replace shields and hp completely at this rate - if we keep putting hyper OG on everything, soon everyone will build like Dante - just ability mods.

I thought about the fading icon, but I don't think that will help too much. My reasoning here is that it will still retain all the problems of exactness in direction. Since the icon will always be on top of all the other visual noise too, I am not sure that an icon even at 10% opacity wouldn't 'give it away' as it were. Another option i considered was to shrink the icon based on distance, but I think that would be more annoying than anything and it still has the exactness problem. I think a simple HUD icon (not positioned on the demolisher's location but just permanently attached to the side of the user's screen like the combo counter) that just flashed with demolisher proximity would probably be the most elegant solution. Move one direction, get a flash - it'd be the equivalent of hearing the beep - you'd know it's somewhere this way. Go down a path, less flashes, wrong way. Go down another, more flashes, right way. Still mark the demolisher with a red icon once it's found like normal though. This should preserve the search, preserve the uncertainty. It'd just be a direct transfer of the sound information to the screen - it wouldn't tell you where exactly, but it would clue you in. The only scenario I can imagine where this might be more confusing than the audio is when there are two or more demolishers at once. In that case, the sound would be superior - because the flashing icon would be trying to flash for two things at once and it would just get muddled. A possible workaround would be to allow up to 4 demolisher icons and when there is more than one just add another icon to inform the user that they are 'hearing' two or more, and flash them respective to the distance of each. Even further, you could color code the icons so that the user would know which conduit demolisher is close and if there's more than one which is further away. That might be too much information - since the sound doesn't tell you that either, but off the top of my head I don't mind it too much.

Yeah I think removing the sharing on all overgaurd is the first step that should be taken across the board.

I was about to say that the icon doesn't fade but you made me doubt myself and I went and checked to make sure. It doesn't fade with distance. But it does fade when it turns off and on. Exactly, and once you are facing forward there is no stereo anymore. In retrospect, I think the reason those people were so upset is because I said it "doesn't give you direction" which they misinterpreted (intentionally or not idk) to mean "there is no stereo" which isn't what I was saying - I was just saying it's always approximate. Well, I wasn't saying it doesn't modulate with distance, you can definitely get a vague sense of it's distance by how loud it is. Yes, that's basically it. It removed the search aspect of the mode and made it just a little too easy and boring. If I personally had to choose between the current visual feedback and the old system, I'd take the old system. I understand its necessity and agree with it - there should be visual feedback, and like I said I really prefer to be able to play my own music during disruption, but this change to the feel of it - like the the title says, it's killing it for me, the benefit does not outweigh the loss for me, not by a mile. I no longer want to play it, there's no joy in it anymore, it's just another trudging mission now where you go where you're told. There's no player agency - it's now a robot job.

Hm, there are plenty of posts out there about overgaurd and pretty much everything else, I just made one recently myself: They just don't get the community all worked up. And even I myself also mentioned Styanax just before this: *We should be saying something about Nezha's augment too but I guess we can only shout about one thing at a time as a community.

Well I got flayed alive on page 1 for quoting things to people. Sigh, I'll just re-type them I guess - assuming your request here is in good faith - because quoting them now will lead to reactions without context. How audio differs from visual: Volume. The sound starts low and gets louder as you get closer. The current visuals just show it instantly without any 'volume' knob. (Yes, they do turn off sporadically, I cover this later). Environment. Sounds compete with each other. A low volume sound gets drowned out by higher volume. Most people don't bother adjusting their sound settings every time they play disruption, meaning that the demolisher sound when it starts is competing with guns, abilities, Little Duck, etc, etc. This means that the sound indicator is effectively pushed further out. (While there is a lot of visual noise in warframe, the demolisher icon is not lost in it to the point of being able to miss it - it is always on top) Direction. The spicy part, but it's still very real and I'm going to list it again in full confidence. Audio does not give you precise direction, it can only give you approximate direction at best, or no direction at worst. Visuals are precise indicators showing the demolisher's exact direction with zero ambiguity, whether that is above you, below you, or very far away. Distance. This is nuanced and I can see people debating this, and I can agree it's not a strong element at all, but I'm listing it anyway because I do think it's a noticeable difference, though very mild. The audio does not tell you the precise distance. It is very hard to know how far away the demolisher really is just based on the proximity volume - you only know 'wow it's really close' or 'it's pretty far away'. Just like direction, it's approximate. There's no doubt about this, but now the counterargument here is that the visual icon doesn't tell you the precise distance either - I find this to be both true (there is no meter indicator) and not true (you still have a pretty good idea of how far away it is - I think this is because you are mentally comparing the icon to your map knowledge - you know what is off in that direction and the path they must take and you can mentally project the icon's position to the path). So they are both quite imprecise in this aspect, but I personally find that the visuals are still winning out in distance detection, albeit very slight. I will note that the visuals definitely have potential to be perfectly precise (meter indicator) but the sound has no such potential. Muffling. The demolisher beep is affected by some architecture. I am not sure why this is, maybe they are doing a line-of-sight test or maybe they have certain walls tagged or maybe some more advanced sound design is going on, but we've all had the experience of coming around a corner, opening a door or coming into a new room and suddenly the beep jumps and is much louder because we are suddenly in the same space. It's up for debate if this is a good aspect but I rather think it is - it helps us to know when we have to go around. The visuals suffer this same effect slightly because they do turn off, but the visuals are still vastly superior to the sound in this case because of their precision - you know exactly where to go once they are back on - the visuals are not muffled, they just blink. I note that I really dislike this change to the visuals, I don't think it's accomplishing what it wants to in a satisfying way. In summary, the current visuals have no ambiguity at all (except distance and an occasional flicker) whereas audio is imprecise about everything.

The thing I really don't like about the "DE doesn't want us to have fun" crowd is that it is so disingenuous and rude to DE. Of course they want you to have fun. AND they care about their game. You don't have to bash DE for taking corrective action that is sorely needed. And this sentiment only seems to pop up when something is atrociously overpowered and being abused or there is a really bad exploit that people are taking advantage of, so it seems to primarily be a social engineering cudgel of the criminal.

That's fair, time-wise it might be decently close.