CrownOfShadows

You actually didn't respond, you went on your own tangent, but you finally did address the issue here. I play solo more than I play in groups for your information, disruption included. This is not a good change. Does it make things pathetically easy? Sure. If that's your jam, good for you I guess. Not everyone likes being in a baby crib.

Thanks for not reading anything. The visual indicator IS A GOOD CHANGE. That's not the problem.

Simple suggestions on page 2. And a comparison to mining further up on this page. I'd repost them here for you but apparently that makes people batS#&$ crazy so you're going to have to read them on your own.

I really don't trust you. -_- Anyways, ok, let's pretend you didn't try to eviscerate me. Yes, something like a Geiger counter could work fine. I would not personally hook it up like that to the mini map but I'm not the game dev. We already even have this basic system in warframe - it's our mining. When we're out mining, we have the audio cue that tells us when you're close and in the right direction and it gets louder when we get closer, but we also have HUD elements to show the same thing. More rock icons pop up as they enter detection range, but it doesn't point us directly at them. It doesn't directly mark them for us. You have to go find them. It's a guidance mechanism, it's the not longitude and latitude of the thing. (not the cleanest example motivationally but as far as tech goes it's pretty spot on). As mentioned in the OP, I originally was under the impression that they were simply auto-marking the demolisher across the team once it was found so players didn't have to struggle to waypoint it, and I'm fine with that - seems like a perfectly fine QoL, it's just an improvement to how it works now where it's blocked by being too far away (whereas waypoints aren't).

So imagine a new update comes out and disruption is changed again. This time you just load into a level, sit there for the appropriate amount of time doing nothing at all, and then are gifted something from the reward table. Would that be 'killing it' for you or would you be pleased about that? Except it's universal and instant. So it's not a 'more clear indicator of what we always had', it's a new indicator for something we never had. There is, unfortunately, probably too much truth to this.

So... ahem, I guess you should be aware of this and since I don't trust that it will get read in it's original location... here's a topic dedicated to it. Yeah demolishers pulse their cleanse but it does not actually cleanse anymore. I didn't see any other mentions of it here or in the known issues. You can thank @Timidobserver for sortof letting you know about it haha (bottom of page 2 of this thread): I didn't test all the varieties but it's definitely true on Olympus and Neptune. Armatus necramechs don't appear to use a cleanse (?) (or if they do there's no visual pulse like demolishers).

OMG this is TRUE! I didn't even realize it - this has got to be a bug. The status purge field expands like normal from them but it doesn't actually cleanse them! I searched the Dante forums but don't see a single mention of it. Did you report it?

Maybe it's the toxicity of the forums getting to me but whenever someone says 'tell us how you'd do it' that's a red flag - 99% of the time they don't care and they just want to bash whatever idea you might throw out there. Anyways, just posted some quick thoughts for the wolves to mock and shred a couple posts above this.

Rather than just instantly showing everyone where the demolisher is and where to go, they could keep the search aspect as it is and just add visual feedback to indicate your proximity. Something as simple as visual dot on the HUD that flashes in sync with the sound pulses or increases it's flash rate with proximity, or something as advanced as a custom sonar or tying it into our radar system, or a meter so you are 'sounding' for it and slowly resolving it's direction visually like any number of other games, or some of the suggestions TiltSkillet made. All it needed was a visual accompaniment. Just represent the sound notification on the screen by any number of methods. The player just needs to know 'aha - it's probably over in this direction but I need to go further that way to make sure' (and that process should not start at the conduit, just like the audio version, players should have to fish around a little for it)

Ah yeah the reasoning behind invisible frames on alchemy is not due to survival concerns, but because you can just wander around picking up elements and chucking them and basically just ignoring the enemies completely until you need some more elements, then jumping into operator to zoom around for the coolant release. Since you're not defending anything and you don't really need to constantly kill everything either, you're free to just ignore all of that as much as possible. I don't like that playstyle particularly (which is why I put it in the negative category) but it is very suited to it, probably more than anything except spy (& void flood maybe). I do agree most invisible frames lack the tools for powerful DPS (thankfully) so it's a little harder to do it this way in SP. For a while people were just sitting in operator invisible so they could pick through the debris field in peace, and loki/ivara/ash/octavia are kinda variations on that. I think they turned down the crazy spawn rate a little since then though, making it easier to see the ground. (the mini-map is helpful, but when there are 10 purple objects of roughly the same shape and size, or 10 orange, and only 1 of them is an element and the icon isn't showing up (on the ground) because you're now too close or because it's under a bunch of enemies... it's still a guessing game, I often have to run back and forth spamming the pick-up button over them to see if I catch anything - it's better than it was, but there's still a lot of visual confusion there. And when you run over to a field of purple pickups because you saw an electricity icon and then you're over there searching and searching and it despawned... arghhhh). ----------- It might be nice if 4 players had 2 crucibles they could fill instead of 1 that fills very slowly. Or maybe 1 crucible per player... that might get confusing though, and probably mess with the element drop availability, and the coolant section would be weird too hmm nvm - or link them all, hm. IDK but finding some way to make it more accessible or make it feel faster and more responsive might be good if it could be done without sacrificing the strengths of it.

This may be, I wasn't playing actively at the time. All I know is that now I activate a conduit and the demolisher appears pretty much instantly and I don't have to search for it at all anymore, I just have to run (or boredly walk) over to it, and that feels... kinda lame.

It says it in your tone. I can already tell you're going to hate any suggestion I make. And that is very obvious bait. You demand that I come up with the solution, and then you try to guilt me into it when I say no? And then you ridicule me? And then you pillory me? Sorry, you're coming across as very bad faith and honestly as a pretty big jerk. Don't ever demand people come up with solutions - and then certainly don't piss on them if they don't have any or don't want to give one. Come up with your own. Or do you care so little about the hearing impaired yourself? Completely false. I pasted responses because people DON'T READ and it directly addressed their issues. When people said something intelligent and on-topic (and in good faith) I replied in kind. Don't troll or bully people just because you don't agree with them.

Saw the bait. Didn't take it. You only wanted a suggestion so you could ridicule it.

Sound information from the demolisher did not ever reach to the conduit. People had to search. Demolisher necramechs do spawn very close by on Armatus, yes (probably because they designed it specifically to work with this change - which is in fact why I even suggested that it remain in it's current state on Armatus), but this change applies to all disruption not just Armatus. Demolishers are effectively immeditately in view on all disruption maps (I have an asterisk with details). This fundamentally shifts the nature of this game mode. Before, the game mode worked as a search operation, a hunt and kill. It now operates very differently. It's now run to target. There is no searching.

Yeah I have zero problem with updating it so that there's visual feedback instead of just audio - that was always bad and I've always had to shut off my music every time I started up a disruption which was irritating. Heck, add controller vibration support. All of that has nothing to do with the issue I raised though. So specify what you actually are so pleased about: You want visual feedback Or you want to change how disruption works to make it easier for you Because it's very simple to keep disruption exactly the way it was and still add visual support. danger to the conduit

Eh, I really don't see this. You could accommodate the hearing impaired or people who just want music (me) without changing the way it works in the slightest. Yes, I suppose it fixes it, but it is not in any way needed to fix it.

VISUAL FEEDBACK IS GOOD. CHANGING HOW THE MODE WORKS is BAD. So the new disruption changes sounded really good when i heard them. What I heard was 'when a team member finds the demolisher the rest of the team will be notified' (no idea if that's what they actually said or what I just thought they said) - but I took it as basically just improving the system so that players don't have to try to put a waypoint down. Ok, great! What we seem to have got instead is that as soon as you activate a conduit the demolisher becomes visible* * this isn't precisely true but it is effectively true. to be more precise moving away from the conduit 5-10m is enough to detect it on almost all disruption maps, depending on spawn locations/distances While this is a pretty helpful thing for people who maybe never played disruption before, and something I maybe wouldn't mind if it was just on Olympus for training purposes, or just on Armatus as a disruption variant - I really kinda hate it being the default mode of disruption. Before disruption was an adventure, it had tension, suspense, exploration - even a little danger. Now it's press the button and run directly to the enemy.

well, I agree strongly with a few points: - missions that are paced around skill are extremely desirable, timers suck. Also, missions where the players have control of the pacing are also extremely desirable (they're almost the same thing but there's some gray area there. Both disruption and alchemy let the player choose when to start the next section and also how fast they can do that section, which is great). - the rewards are good (for now) - impossible to fail / no built in fail condition is a breath of fresh air for sure - making it a fissure (along with the other new ones like cascade) is glorious indeed, fissures have needed (and STILL need) a LOT of freshening but it has some important negatives too that I think are worth mentioning - for the average player, each round takes significantly longer than any other game mode, even survival. - it often just feels like it takes longer even if it doesn't because the crucibles fill so slowly. It's exhausting to play. Getting to round 12 in this mode feels like going to round 40 in disruption. By round 2 most everyone seems to be done in pubs, it's a fair miracle if everyone goes all the way to round 4, and borderline impossible to go past that without recruiting a premade - enemies frequently seem to suffer from the power-cell-disease of not dropping the needed elementals, thus delaying the mission until they finally decide it's ok to drop them again - differentiating the elementals from the other pickups is by itself extremely frustrating at times despite their icons, and stack all the visual noise of regular gameplay and the crush of murmur enemies on top of that and it can venture into misery territory - many enemies can slow your progress further by shielding & healing others (which you need to kill to get elements) or being such a nuisance that you have to deal with them (necramechs) - the coolant phase can be very annoying depending on the mobility of your frame and your weapons - sometimes the architecture of the levels becomes oppressive, it can feel like there are 58 hurdles to jump through just to get to your throwing spot again. - missing a throw happens, and it feels miserable (and slows down the mission more ofc) - unfortunately this game mode caters to invisibility and operator play more than anything else. - while it does move around the map it's to predetermined locations... and unfortunately these tend to be pretty restrictive since the players must huddle around them as opposed to venturing all around like (the old) disruption did. And a couple positives I'd add to your list: - they have Lohk surges, which are a nice bonus in addition to fissure bonuses (I haven't got them to coincide yet but the secondaries benefits should stack) - the tileset itself is gorgeous, my favorite in WF I think - they have whispers, which I like even though it's pretty impractical to do them if they aren't in the crucible rotation path And a few of your points I'm taking with a little bit of salt: - I mostly disagree about it being fun solo, but that's pretty subjective. For me, it just feels miserable to solo. I enjoy the first few ok, then it just becomes too much of a slog - it feels like I have to lift the entire gym every 5 minutes. - Camping - if you mean hallway camping, sure. Otherwise the entire game mode is basically just camping around the crucibles. afk works for people who afk - if you mean you can't solo afk it like survival, sure. I don't see afks in this mission type hardly ever but what I DO see is people not helping, maybe throwing one jug in on the whole round, or running off to look for the more exciting whisper, or voca, or just fighting instead - a high number of players seem to want to engage with everything EXCEPT the crucibles. In all of my alchemy games from their launch until today I have not yet had a single squad that was firing on all pistons, working as efficiently as possible - something I get like 95% of the time in disruptions. I see a lot of one player bringing something like Khora and Hydroid and the rest of the team will just leave them there to 'handle the defense' errrr put all the elements in.

I agree it's pretty miserable. I hate being that guy but when I see an MR15 picking Loki or Revenant or Stalker pfffffffffffffft I'm outta there now, can't handle that anymore. I used to tolerate it but not anymore. But like you say even the people who are there to help rarely make it past the first few rounds. I think maybe 1 in 20 pub squads goes the distance with me. I hate that I now have to wait for one of the frames that I can solo with because that's the only way I can get any progress without constantly restarting, and it sucks because I prefer playing with people most of the time.

IMO, yes he is too strong. Jump into an ESO right now and just stand there as a Dante nukes the whole room from orbit, better than any other nuker in the game, better than the stupidity that is legerdemain even. AND he can give the whole team ridiculous amounts of overgaurd if he happened to be in challenging content. It feels like he was developed in a powercrept environment and then dropped into ours. The one thing I really hate about the WF youtube community is that nobody EVER has the balls to say 'this is too strong' or 'this is too easy'.

Make sure you're using his 4 for overgaurd (2 light casts + 4), if you're relying only on his 2 for overgaurd then it's going to suck for sure.

Well I just got it and I hesitate to comment on it before i'm 4-5 forma into it.... however I will say that so far this my build lmao