Merkranire

Sounds complicated and variable with a dose of subjectivity and no real consideration for balanced gameplay, but rather balanced… um… non-minmaxed-but-still-does-SP-builds-that-are-sometimes-minmaxed-but-not-in-a-META-way. I guess what I’m taking from this is “Pick your maximum, build for that, anything lower is self-nerfing and is to be avoided”. Which aligns with my new goals and validates my decision to simplify everything from gameplay to building; I want to be ready for whatever highest-level content DE will throw at us, and variety is not a concern. So I’ll build like it’s coming, then sit in those builds until such time as I need to use them. Very informative, Ervin. A little all over the place and at times felt inconsistent, but I think I get where you’re coming from and am looking forward to better gameplay enjoyment now that I know the rules of how the game is designed and what I should be striving for as a player edit: I also understand now why people keep insisting that Steel Path is the place to be, and why the term “Viable” is simultaneously so warped and so universal, where even in the days when Steel Path was meant to be the place that not everything works, players were using it as the measuring stick for everything and then complaining that not everything worked and DE introduced solutions to the problem they invented at request of players who wanted a place to test their most OP builds and loadouts (solutions which, of course, were used to push OP builds even further until we need Platinum Path) double edit: 🤔 Y’know, this may also explain a bunch of stuff that I thought was kind of stupid but was just me not understanding the way the game is designed, like why people think they need to sink so much and such specialised forma into their gear, why they have to rush so fast just to get any new gear up to par with their OP baseline, why they can’t just rebuild alternatively if they’re overbuilt and are bored to tears, why the game effectively becomes worse and less game-like the more we play. It’s a mindset thing

Confusion abounds

Maybe teammate nameplates…? I’m not sure how useful enemy nameplates will be, since when there’s plenty of them I imagine it’d be very cluttered, and when there’s few of them you don’t need the nameplate to see what it is edit: Personally I haven’t been using the highlight enemies, but the allied one works well enough, and I certainly haven’t needed to turn the intensity up very far

If it seriously made OP’s day that much I’d just hand him the ones I’ve got. At some point in time I’ll end up getting more to gather dust again and my serotonin doesn’t come from something that turning off damage numbers puts at risk, so it seems a non-issue to just give them away

Huh. I mean, I guess I’m not surprised. But at the same time, the dude’s insisting that the game be designed around the idea that the only thing worth pursing is massive overkill as the only goal. There’s a reason I’ve got forma that provides the highly-specialised polarity that is Umbra kicking around and gathering dust. I… can’t help but feel that the guy’s kind of missed the point of why they’re so rare and specialised in the first place edit: This context… raises more questions the more I think about it in reference to what the original post says

I think you’re overselling the importance of Umbra mods. I’ve got some Umbra forma just kicking around because I haven’t found a burning need to apply them

Not a bad idea. Personally I’d like to see how such a limit plays out; I like what Shieldgating does for us for what it was designed to do, but sometimes I know I’m hanging around for too long only because of Shieldgating triggering in a way that feels a little too lenient

Hmmmm. I wanna future-proof myself for mandatory content like Steel Path, like you did before Steel Path came along. Come to think of it, how do you decide you even have a balanced build? You said at one point in time that you’re using balanced builds, but that was for Steel Path, which isn’t balanced. It’s one thing to overbuild for content and it’s easy enough to do so long as you’re fine with narrowing your range of options the higher you need to offset yourself compared to the level you’re doing, it’s another to determine whether you’re actually built in a balanced way for the content you’re doing edit: I’m not interested in being balanced myself, mind you, since that’s self-nerfing, but I’m still not quite sure how you determine when you’re built for Enough. It also kind of sounds like you then live in your builds, which is perfect because I hated having to think about how I’m going to change according to what I’m doing and how I wanted to play

I just finished my first few conclave matches; it was fun! Was up against some Rhino Prime with my Excalibur and Argonak, and was a few close matches with the two of us trading victories I was wondering if it’s possible to have matchmaking happen in the background while I do stuff in my Orbiter? I’d be fine with waiting around for an opponent, but being locked into the lobby is kind of a downer edit: I love the environments and the movement system really shines; I’m a huge fan of Titanfall and this is like a more-raw version of it, full of things to learn. Wall latching to drop down onto someone always barely worked in TF, but is great in here

I’m fine with SP requiring more-specific builds; it’s not like when I said “I’m fine with SP” I completely forgot that its purpose was to be the place to take our ever-more-specific builds that are minmaxed beyond the standard game, and it used to be even more limited and I was fine and in many ways preferred that. Why would a level 60 Arbitration build work in level 100+ SP? They look different and jumping between the two level ranges means I have a reason to rebuild and reconsider how I build when I do so instead of using the same build for both which eventually gets stale, and justifies my earning of new stuff like Arcanes which I can use in both content when I can bring more options to either and build in different ways for different experiences because of the difference in levels and modifiers. oh, whoops, that was my old thinking, filled with nuance and ideas and understanding of why I built the way I did. I meant that I live in Steel Path now. Arbitration gets Steel Path builds all the time and that’s balanced building. 🤔 Criteria…. Come to think if it, what is your criteria? I was thinking META because anything else is a downgrade, which no thank you, not interested in self-nerfing. But you seem to be self-nerfing and downgrading, so I’m getting conflicting information. I guess the criteria is to play like you, living in Steel Path and shunning anything that doesn’t let me do so, but I think I need clarification on what that is; in the past there wasn’t a single build or item or combination of anything I wouldn’t use, but that was because I simply wasn’t discerning enough and wasn’t cutting out the garbage, resulting in undermining the perceived value of new things I earn but it doesn’t matter because I know what’s good and most stuff aint good edit: You got any Youtube videos I could watch?

To be fair, most things aren’t used by the playerbase. Personally I’m fine with Amalgams being specific to weapons. Haven’t had a problem equipping them, and I like weapon-specific mods

Pretty sure I kept telling you that I didn’t dislike SP, but nevermind. What can I say? I thought long and hard about what you said and decided you had a point. Grind is the most important thing. The game used to make sense, now it’s full of confusing decisions and questionable design under this new mindset. Builds that were designed to combine with content in engaging ways got binned; now if there’s anything left, then I’ve built wrong and am using bad builds and need to refine the build/loadout until it’s gone and the builds can be considered good. And I want the game to be designed around the philosophy of “What game?”, like it has been for years and I just never knew since I was too busy playing it wrong. We’re two peas in a pod now, Ervin. You helped me see the light and approach the game like you do, and now Steel Path is indeed the only place to be and there’s a certain criteria of builds I must follow

Well why not give everyone a NASCAR-ready car by default? Then we'd all be on the same page. It’s really annoying having to fight and invest and engage with the game and build system, just make absolute destruction and endless energy spam the default. You and I could be teaming up in Steel Path, building and playing as we want, treating it like the Dynasty Warriors horde shooter that Warframe is meant to be; those garbage-ass builds? They’re now powerful and worth considering! I mean seriously, DE are gonna dump a bunch of power onto me and not expect me to use it? Goes against human nature. I can’t imagine any other way to use the components I’m earning except for more and more game-breaking power, and any other build is worthless if it doesn’t lend to the grind and satisfy my opportunity cost concerns. And all of that wouldn’t be a problem if the game just defaulted to how I’m currently building and playing, except for every build; Everything could be the right tool for the right job, and nothing would have any weaknesses that currently make them non-viable

What I’m hearing is that the point of the game is to get more power, but the power we’re forced to equip breaks the game. I’m seeing an argument for the designers giving it up; I’m not about to accept any sort of nerf, self-imposed or otherwise. There may be a whole range of build options of varying levels of effectiveness, but unless they’re powerful they run counter to the point of the game and thus aren’t worthy of consideration. So you see how my hands are tied? Tied in a way that the designers giving up will untie, because if they’re expecting me to actually use some garbage-ass builds, I’m going to tell them “I don’t think so”. The game would get in the way of my grind if I were to do that

Oh, and that’s also around the level range where Eximus and their overguard can feel particularly crunchy; your damage across your kit may be sufficient for the different types of standard enemies, but Eximus overguard will feel particularly crunchy without at least your first proper amp built from Cetus. Just make sure to hit them in the weakspots; for most enemies it’s their head, but for those laser MOAs, you actually want to hit their backsides where their batteries are

There’s fundamental concepts worth learning, like how movement and positioning and threat management helps (if you’re jumping face-first into the dangerzone in the middle of groups of enemies and swinging wildly and dying with no idea what’s happening or relying on ability spam and constantly running out of energy, those problems can be addressed quite readily through mechanics available to every frame and doing things like spreading damage around and not committing to the kill unless safe and consideration of when to use an ability), and also what kind of damage you’re doing and what role your weapon is built for and how to intertwine your loadout according to the situation. For damage types, grab a scanner, scan enemies to learn what they’re weak to and to give you more options to play around with in the controlled environment of Simaris’ Simulacrum. Simaris also sells an upgradeable scanner you can upgrade to point at bad guys mid-mission and it’ll tell you what damage the enemy is weak to if something feels off with your damage. Aside from that, anything you would want to use should be fine with a bit of build and playing consideration, and if you learn the fundamentals, you can expand your options and learn when it’s safe to shed unnecessary mods if you want to replace them with something else instead of relying on overkill for the content you’re doing. What frames and weapons did you want to use? Whatever you’ve got may be more than enough already and may just need some build and play tweaking for the content you’re doing

I’m glad that the options exist, am grateful that I’m not forced into them (aside from what the community tries to push onto me), am happy that the game can be fun to use them as well as fun to not use them, am annoyed when players turn it into a problem, and am annoyed when the same players who can’t do anything without energy get hold of a newbie and foist upon them the idea that the newbie needs endless energy

I don’t think this is a downside; it’s being considerate with when and what you cast. Sometimes you can’t wait for Discharge if you’re relying on orb drops and need to make a decision in the moment, and Shock turns out to be the best choice because of what it does and what it costs I’m not a fan of the “Just give us always-recharging energy” idea because I like having to think, and would be annoyed if the game was by default catering to ability spammers

They failed pretty hard when players convinced each other it was the logical place to go as part of the famously linear progression that Warframe is known for but whoops! The game becomes more limited and less fun when you go there, so DE listened to the playerbase and introduced more powercreep to allow more players and choice into the part of the game we’re supposed to be in according to the wider community as we superglue damage and survival mods into whatever free slots we have. Also balance is when I take what I earn and arrange it into ways to reach level cap; you can bet I was all over old Shieldgate builds. Doesn’t matter that on its own, Shieldgate is soundly designed and does its job of preventing oneshots while allowing for risk, I took it and warped its purpose and it was a balancing tactic. 🤔 Come to think of it, DE should just do away with the limits of the mod system and apply the effects of any new mod we get for as long as we have that mod. Why we got limits anyways? I got mods I’d love to use to make builds, but when I use them the game gets hard and I have to do things like move and aim and watch enemy positioning and resource management because I had to sacrifice power to equip them. If DE just applied the effects all the time (turning negatives into a toggle because sometimes negatives for abilities are a good thing), I would be progressing linearly and the game would become what it was meant to be and what we’ve all wanted it to be

I miss when I had to actually play and engage with the game. It’s like, the more I played, the more I was forced into considering opportunity cost, the more limited and worse the experience became because like, duh, I’m not going to choose something other than more power, that’s stupid and just means I’m making bad builds. Warframe is a game where it becomes worse the more I play it, and it’s like “What even?” edit: Yessss… give me those likes

Hahaha

But the game doesn’t have any mechanics to speak of and we already have to utilise building certain ways and combining it in certain ways with content just to keep it that way! At the moment we need to combine builds and content in order to squash the standard game’s balance and get our foot through the door of Steel Path, which from its start had been called Endgame by the players and articles and the general populace The problem is that while Steel Path was always meant to be the default, it required ever narrower choice; we’d earn things that ultimately never got used. Like, we were already eschewing most choices, but then Steel Path is the next step. And if I’ve been taught anything, it’s that this game isn’t meant to have mechanics; they’re holdovers from the early days. So solution; crank everything until it does Steel Path and we can shed unnecessary damage mods and use whatever weapons and builds we want. After all, the most choice happens when everything squashes everything else, and that’s what we’re already trying to build for but the game’s just getting in our way with its mechanics and engagement requirements and general game design at the moment

Personally, I think it’d be a great addition. After they buff all the stats of our equipment

Consider it uninformed and incorrect

Nah. Why do you think it’s so popular a thing to do? It’s a win! It’s what we’re asking for by the way we build and play and how we snub any alternatives; any time something new gets added, it better be more power, or it’s useless, and woe to any expectation that we shed some of what we’ve currently got, even temporarily Keep in mind though, I’ve had my 2k+ hours of fun; if the game actually went completely community, I ah… got my money’s worth, and am fine with an excuse to move on