DrBorris

I don't think it is. [DE]Rebecca was in the official Discord and mentioned something along the lines of adding more quests to the new player experience, specifically stuff in-between Vor's Prize and Second Dream (the part of the experience that needs the most work imo). This has the consequence of making that wall to new content even higher. Basically, if DE continues to make the new experience better by fleshing it out, it is going to have the knock-on effect of lengthening the experience. This means the issue of "quality content wall is a wall nonetheless" will become more important as time goes, finding a solution to this growing issue (as both the main story and NPE gets longer) is absolutely something to address. Criticisms of the new player experience are fair (although your "stop wasting time and just fix it in 5 minutes" comes off a bit ignorant to the reality of game dev) but this issue is separate. And again, you can just dismiss it... I'm not asking you to admit that it is an issue, I just think that in this discussion about a thing you should at the very least address the thing. Because of Warframe's progression structure I do believe that the experience of playing through is incompatible with the MMO 'skip' norm. Mostly being that the story isn't that long, that it is mechanically quite a bit more simulating than most MMO early games, and that this is an incredibly complex game that needs a lot of time to fully grasp. Like... I get it. While I'm in favor of a temporary skip, I'm not fully confident that even a watered down version makes sense. And the Venus thing... if a player gets bored of the game going through Venus, which at that point is 'new' content to them, in what is less than 10 missions... they aren't going to be a Warframe player for long no matter what. Giving a false impression that the game is all narrative all the time hurts everyone, it'll lure in players that don't jive with what Warframe is.

Some people are weird. But I think the more interesting group is the group that wants to play but feels daunted. The ones that see cool shiny stuff and have friends who are playing shiny stuff, but are too daunted by 10 years of content (quality being irrelevant) to make the investment. I don't think DE should cater to the people who don't want to play everything leading up to the new content, that type of short-term gratification just ain't gonna work with Warframe's content structure. But I think that group of daunted people could very well become long term players if they were given the ability to jump in with everyone. I think way too much of this thread has focused on the specific idea proposed by Reb and not enough looked at the problem. Nowhere was it implied that people didn't want to play the content, rather that they don't want to do it first. I think this motivation came through far clearer in the Devstream, the OP got to the point a bit too quick and did the noob mistake of focusing on a specific implementation of a concept rather than emphasizing the concept (something most of us who post here have long learned). Rather than put themselves in DE's headspace, people are creating rationalization based on the proposal. All this is why I think, given the issues stated here and in the Devstream, a free "skip it for now" option is the way to go. I'll keep it brief as I have a ranty version of this on the first page, but basically utilize the Duviri loaner weapon mechanics to give players a decent arsenal and separate its progression path in a way not all too dissimilar to Duviri. I am actually strongly opposed to any story recap, a person who is jumping to new content isn't doing it because they wanted a TL;DR of the story, it was for the new content. If they want the story, they should play the story. Obviously narratively it won't make sense, but that's a far smaller sacrifice than the potential of deflating 10 years of narrative in an inevitably insufficient lecture. Despite having a strong narrative Warframe is gameplay first, I don't think narrative question marks will ruin the gameplay. Embrace the skip as an in medias res. Let the new player come in, be confused by wally, see lots of new shiny and explosions, and once they've had their fill of the new content start working their way through the old, see how we got from an ugly old guy with a gold key to eldritch horrors. Once they play through up to the new content the two "paths" will merge. I think it is imperative that a person who skips looses nothing. There is a massive FOMO wall to "skip this and never get the experience ever again" that will lead to people not skipping that might enjoy the game more if they could have the communal experience. This type of mechanic has the potential to bring the community together for content drops in a way we've never seen. There are many, many, many "lost" players who don't return because the know they have a bunch of stuff to do, I think the game would be better if those players could be brought into new content despite them "skipping" some stuff.

The new player experience is not nearly as bad as it is made out to be (in the ways it is being criticized). I've seen a lot of complaints about how the star chart is bloated with way too many nodes and that it takes forever to get through. I'm not sure what star chart yall are looking at, but most every planet is less than 8 nodes from one side to the other. Other than that, we have these apparent obscene grind requirements that are.... what exactly? A Venus content wall? I'm... um... what? What is on Venus that is a wall? Necramechs were absolutely a problem, but as of Dagath that is basically a non-issue. I don't think the new player experience is in a good place, but at this point I think the bloat is mostly fine, if anything it is the holes in tutorialization and world building that are hurting it. It needs more content, not less. This whole "why would anyone play that" has a very similar vibe to the all too common "I don't actually want to play the game to get the rewards" (then complain about not having anything to play) comment cycle. And my suggestion is largely tied to this not being a paid option, but I did fail to mention that. In my opinion, having an easily accessible and free "skip to new" option for everybody would indirectly make far more plat than any skip ever would. Also, you conveniently forgot to address the issue at hand. You're up in arms about the new player experience, that's fair, I'm with you in spirit, but I do find it kinda funny that you ignore the first 3/4 of my post. You could at least hand-wave it away with "that's not a real problem, people wouldn't care to play 20-30 hours of a new player experience if it was good," but nah... we can't have on-topic discussion here.

So you haven't payed attention to the whole debacle or tried to understand any other perspectives. Got it. I'm getting tired of repeating this, but the issue DE raises ISNT'T FIXED BY A PERFECT NEW PLAYER EXPERIENCE. The issue this is trying to address is that any content wall, no matter the quality, while discourage some players from ever playing. Even if there were no "filler" content between quests that is dozens of hours. When a new update drops people want to play that content with with their friends right away. Dozens of hours could be multiple weeks for some people. It is also completely dismissing that there isn't a single correct way to enjoy the game. Having an actual progression curve is, for me, an integral part to the game's experience. Being rail-roaded through quest back-to-back would be terrible... for me. Everyone isn't me. DE have been putting in the work with every major update since New War to smooth out the new player path, to insinuate that DE is doing nothing when a significant part of Abyss of Dagath's patch notes were dedicated to new player experience is downright ignorant. It isn't there yet, there are issues, but what I find interesting is that a way to make the experience better would actually be to lengthen it in some places. A more thorough tutorial, more world-building, that would take even more time. A pure skip that effectively deletes skipped content is, in my opinion, still a pretty bad idea. But having a way for new or even returning players to engage with new content when it is new is not a bad idea. There are plenty of potential issues, but the "lol, just make NPW better" takes just make yall look not smart.

It is absolutely partially due to Mobile launch. They are going to have a ton of new players see an ad for new content and... content wall. With good intention (I believe) DE are looking at a massive wave of new players and trying to think of a way to get around a problem they perceive to be significant. I know I get a bit white-knight-y about some of DE's recent controversial decisions, in my mind everything makes sense from a good faith perspective, but that doesn't mean I think that this is an all-around good idea. I think if poorly done this could kill the game for a whole generation of players. Mobile players are more willing to shell out money, but they still are in it to have fun. I think the potentials of the skip creating a bad image or it making for an even worse new player experience are far bigger issues than a slippery slope. Assuming the demographic of these Forums, I don't think anyone here would use a skip. Same goes for DE, game devs aren't likely to be the crowd to skip playing a game. Trying to empathize with the desires and predict the responses of people we fundamentally don't get is hard.

As someone very invested in Warframe's narrative, I would never call it a narrative driven game. Come on, we spend maybe 1% of our time doing things that affect the narrative. Furthermore, some players really don't care. It hurts any time I talk to them, I personally don't get it, but there are definitely people here just to make big number and turn Grineer into goo. Warframe is a fantastic game for such people, I don't think we should gate-keep them because we think the story is good. And I am also wary of slippery slope arguments. A slippery slope isn't actually saying anything is wrong with what is proposed, but rather that it will get worse. I'm not sure how you could listen to Reb's explanation and think "ah yes, this is a slope to bad monetization." There are very real concerns with a skip, things that I think could be destructive to the game. When discussing an issue I think we should be discussing the issue at hand, not the phantom issue in the future. Edit: I have a bit of extra bias that I think I need to get out. I really, really want DE to expand on the early game story. I want them to go back and do a proper retelling of the events from Sling Stone to the Mutalist Strain. This... this would be a terrible idea right now, adding potentially another 50 hours to the new player path will only exacerbate the issues Reb raised. A temporary skip to new content, then giving players the option to go back and play through the new player experience, is a best of both worlds for me.

Okay, so rather than talk about how you think the new experience should be better as that is off topic, why do you think of DE's assertion that there are new players that will never play the game no matter how good the experience is? The issue DE is attempting to resolve is the perceived negative results of new players not being able to play the advertised content that their friends are playing. Rather than play a hundred hours of other stuff they choose to not bother. To rectify this they are looking to allow new players to immediately play new content (the method by which this happens is tbd). Do you think this is not a proper interpretation of new players? Is the proposed "skip" solution full of too many negative repercussions? Maybe another angle on it I'm missing as I am biased (a bit) in favor of a "skip" option? This is why I proposed a split progression approach. Let a new player jump to new content with the Duviri weapon/gear rental system. Then have the "real" progression path stay open as a thing they can and must eventually go back to. Once the two paths meet they merge. I am pretty strongly against deleting 10 years of story, I think this preserves the new player experience while also giving a potential hook into that experience. Whispers of the Wall may be overwhelming for a new player, but it might also be the catalyst to get them invested into seeing how they got there.

DE has been and seem to plan on continuing to improve the experience. The reason they want to give an option is, as I've said, to get players to the new content. Reb said in the official WF Discord that they are going so far as to add new quests between Vor's Prize and TSD. Veteran players don't want to play old content when new content is out. Twisting that into a negative is a bit of a stretch. I also think the "just keep squishing" is a terrible idea. You can't squish forever, the reason TSD is so good is because you played the game for hours before it. The power progression feels good because of the time frame it takes place over. The story needs breathing room, I was worried that DE would continue to squish everything together until it was an unintelligible mess. The proposal of a skip and adding more content has me far more excited for the new player experience than making it only 10 hours. Lean into the new player experience, make it a good experience, but give an option for those that dgaf. Also this is my hot take on how to go about this... ... you started your explanation with "DE has been getting more greedy," then focus on the monetary aspect as if that is the primary motivation. I obviously don't know what you're thinking, but if that isn't the impression you intended to give then you should've probably led with something else.

I think the concern "it looks bad to offer a new player to skip your story" is a pretty big one. Regardless of intention, it looks bad. I don't know if it is possible but I think avoiding a monetary cost would be best. As for implementation, I think it would be more interesting to approach it as an "in medias res" as opposed to a skip. Utilize the Duviri 'rental' gear mechanics, let them play with decent gear and grind some of their own new stuff. But then leave the original progression path completely intact. Then allow for that player to swap between their "new content" and "personal progress" paths at will, two separate silos of progression. Have any new content acquired in the 'personal' path feed into the 'new' path, then whenever the 'personal' path meets the 'new' path the silos merge into each other. So basically make it like Duviri... I could imagine this actually acting as something that gets some players more interested in the story. Vor's Prize doesn't grab everyone, but imagine starting with Whispers. I could very much imagine someone going "how did we get here? I gotta see how we got here." Attempting to summarize the story into a digestible time frame will ruin the story. Yall at DE are great, but that is an actually impossible task. Don't try to summarize it, put it off to the side and leave it for later. Those summaries as a reminder would still be awesome though. Edit: I see the "this will remove player's attachment for the game" take popping up a lot. If this does turn into a traditional story skip, I'm inclined to agree. But I think the "two progression paths" approach gets around that by not actually skipping anything, instead using new story content as a springboard for the old content. Edit2: Another advantage of this approach is that it would allow you to expand the new player experience without worry. It would suck to make a new quest knowing some players would never see it. In the context of the current paradigm, adding new quests won't be hurdles to new content, they are just new content. I would love to eventually see a retelling of the events from Sling Stone to Alad's Mutalist strain, that couldn't happen now as it would likely be another 20-50 hours for a new player to get through. Edit3: (I apparently have a lot of thoughts) Plat is part of this equation, my good-faith interpretation is that it exists as a barrier to dissuade everyone from skipping the story. I think it is a bad idea for quite a few reasons, but if money is the question I think "two progression path" solution is also a bit of an answer. Much like with how I expect yall are expecting a resurgence of players with cross-save, this could do the exact same thing for "lost" players. People who haven't played in years and are daunted by the mountain of content, a free "hey, come play this new stuff" could bring them back where a paid one will likely get an "lol" as a response. And for new players, I'd go the Duviri(ish) route. Vor's Prize is the tutorial, it's establishment of the world has turned out to be quite important. But once you're done with that have it flash up that old new player screen when Duviri was a start option, the options being "continue," "paradox," and "skip". Embrace this "skip" not as a skip, but a jump-in point for the game. Have anyone at any point be able to take the jump to new content, make any new release be a celebration for everyone and not just those that are caught up. Edit4: I think this solution would also alleviate the FOMO of a skip as well. While some players don't care about the new player experience or story at all, that isn't everyone. There is likely a group of people who want to play the new stuff now but don't want to "ruin" the game for themselves. Those players will likely not do the skip even though that may be the 'right' choice for them in the moment. The split path takes away the risk from skipping as you don't lose access to the proper new player experience. Again, I think the advantage of having a universally available and free skip would serve to strengthen the community during major content drops. There is potential for this to not just be a solution to a problem, but be an all-around improvement for the game for everyone. Edit5: (I'm not done yet) I believe that the Duviri loaner weapon mechanic would also be extremely beneficial to a new player who finds themselves in the later stages of the game. Warframe is a very, very complicated game. Even just combat, which is generally tutorialized fairly well, can be overwhelming to new players. I think removing mod customization from the list of worries for a new player would be helpful if they are simultaneously being thrown into the deep end of gameplay. And as a springboard, getting accustomed to the power curve modding provides may end up guiding them to get into build-craft whenever they go back and do the proper new player experience.

That isn't the purpose of a skip, or at the very least it isn't DE's purpose. DE have been and still are working to make that experience better, but they are also aware of the reality of any content being a wall players will bounce off of. Even if the experience up to Whispers is perfect, some people will see "you have to play 100 hours" and leave without any other questions. That is the point of the skip. Bringing in other points like "just make the experience better" are missing the point.

I didn't say I think it makes the game worse, I'm looking at the potential cons. And I do think it is a very real potential. Also you don't need to project your "nothing matters these forums are a joke" thing onto everyone. We like talking about things. I know nothing matters but I enjoy engaging with conversation as if they do.

I think the (valid) concern is that it makes Warframe a worse game. Without the context of past story content, without having to engage with the new-player progression, the game is worse and people who skip will bounce off. Being upset that the developers are making the game worse is fair. We all want the game to succeed so the game we like continues. Don't focus on the people using bad arguments, there are some real concerns that need to be considered when trying to make a good skip.

Coming to this conclusion after hearing the very real concerns DE has with it shows me you are entirely unwilling to approach this conversation in good faith. I feel kinda bad singling you out as most of the people here are doing the same thing. But the opinion "this is obviously wrong" is an actually stupid opinion. It isn't obvious, there are real issues with the way content is added to the game and how new players WILL bounce off if there is ANY wall. Dismissing that as "obviously" irrelevant means you are not willing to actually consider any other opinions. I know this will also be taken in bad faith, but to try to clarify I'm not saying being against the skip is dumb. I'm not, I can think of may reasons as to why it is bad. I'm still coming to a conclusion myself.

It is fascinating how your assumptions about a person/company can affect your perception of their actions.

The journey is the destination. If you don't find enjoyment in finding new builds than just stop playing. Warframe is great in that it lets you take a break without punishing you if all you care about is new content. There are thousands of viable solutions to complete the "endgame" tier of content in SP. The journey of discovery and the mini-progression of creating a new build is the evergame, Also yes... many, many, many builds are viable in SP. Between armor stripping, slash, and status priming, there are countless combinations of items to make unique gameplay in SP. Build choices matter in SP and that is what makes it so good. Not everyone needs a "reason" to enjoy something. Some people just... do. I am fortunate enough to be one of those people so I am able to play the game for hundreds of hours without a good excuse. Trying to make endless carrots in Warframe could only come at the cost of other systems, I recommend playing Warframe only for what you enjoy out of it instead of asking it to perfectly conform to what you want. If you only enjoy the chase of power and new content, then only play Warframe for those things. As I said before Warframe is a fantastic game for such a desire, it is extremely respectful to your investment and it is always easy to hop back in (unless there are year+ gaps).

Doesn't having a lower cap mean he has to eat more, not less? To make use of Grendel you have to constantly be eating. If you had the option to eat a whole room of enemies, would that not then allow you to ignore the mechanic more? I feel like I'm not going more than 8 seconds without eating something as Grendel, Nourish's duration isn't that long and the damage/armor strip of Regurgitate is too good to not be using constantly. If I could stack up on enemies it would allow me to increase that time, not shorten it.

It is a self fulfilling meme. I think even the biggest Caliban stans can agree he is pretty mid. So when someone comes up and says "lol, this frame is trash," responding with "he's not that bad, he has xyz," all the first person hears is "he's not that bad." Then the cycle continues and spreads. This is despite many, many frames not having a 'use' when using the criteria "does another frame do it better". Personally I like him quite a bit. His 4 is simple, but the gameplay loop it creates is actually pretty unique despite being so simple. Having to pick your engagement areas before you get to them is just enough of a variation of the core gameplay to feel unique but is also close enough to the core gameplay that you can let auto-pilot take the reigns a bit. Then between the CC of his 2, the shield regen of his buddies, and the little bit of aggro your buddies pull, he can survive well enough to execute in that combat space. Caliban is my comfort food Warframe, when I want something simple but don't want to be a basic weapon platform. It is frustrating seeing people hate on Caliban, it is also frustrating to see rework concepts ignore the unique parts of his gameplay and go all in on being a summoner (the anti-gameplay archetype). Don't get me wrong, I'd love some tweaks or a rework, his 1 especially is fundamentally a terrible idea for an ability, but understanding Caliban takes an ounce of nuance that most won't give to something they consider a meme.

This is nice theory and all, but it does not seem to represent the reality of the Forum's direction. I've been here a few years, seen the tides slowly (and sometimes not slowly) change. There have been ups and downs, but generally I would say that the amount of critical thinking is lower, specifically negative assumptions are more common, people are less likely to process another's ideas, and the general "hive mind" has gotten stronger. At this exact moment, the Forums aren't at their lowest state. A few months back was a bit worse imo, but even threads like this that assume negativity is censored in an era when the Forums are more negative than ever are still running amuck. This isn't the first time I've posted this example, sorry for being a broken record to who have seen it before, but I present to you... Yes... that says 2013. Holy fudging butts I've been here for (almost) ten years now. But more importantly, look at that glorious discussion. While the use of writing a "complete" rework like this is questionable in its use to DE (arm-chair Dev'ing isn't good), it shows an extreme degree of effort and intention. Then it gets 49 pages of responses, many of which negative criticisms, that are most often well reasoned and explained. It is glorious, and I (naively) still try to hold my posts up to that standard (along with a few other folks around here). Speaking of high effort, good-faith negative feedback... This topic by Voltage a few months ago is basically this thread... but high effort (and a bit less pop psychology). There was some good discussion there, fairly strong points on the different sides, and in generally I think a good conversation all around. And look.... no censorship... I can't think if a time when I saw properly written, good-faith negative feedback be "censored" just because it was negative. And as an extra hot-take, bad-faith negative feedback belongs only in the dumpster because it is useless (and potentially destructive) to everyone involved. Any time I see someone say "I was censored" the red flag is up. I have seen negative feedback be stifled through thread merging, but that is (in my opinion) a necessary evil and the mods (generally) have a good balance of allowing different threads to last for a few days (to allow proper discussion) before the merging. Oh, and sometimes originally good feedback gets derailed into useless dev basing, that sometimes censors criticism as well, but that's another lesser evil situation. I think there are some people here who have been around for as long as I have, they may have different opinions, but in my experience a little respect for the human beings that are trying their best to make a good game goes a long way when telling them that their design is bad. This feels a bit off topic from "give me reactions," but some of the assumptions present were not fair in my opinion. So more on point, reactions aren't discussion. More importantly, reactions don't bump threads. A hundred dislikes and no comments means a topic is going to be seen by no one. This is part of why I believe negativity is a bit more common, people are more likely to comment negatively and bump a thread than they are to comment positively as they have an option to hit "like." Shorter, more poorly written threads are more likely to get bombarded with comments. TL;DR: Only having positive reactions makes the Forums more negative.

/enable copium Pablo isn't talking about the specific mods Health Conversion and Energy Conversion, but rather talking about the mechanic of converting health/energy. Therefore as Equilibrium is a thing that converts health/energy, it will be affected. /disable copium

Well ain't this a heated topic. I'd like to recontextualize Hydroid's current kit in a way I haven't seen many people acknowledge. That of a high mobility choke defender. First, you use multiple castings of Tempest Barrage to keep multiple choke points in a room locked down. As enemies walk into your rain storms, they get knocked into neat little piles. When placing/maintaining these piles of bodies you are bullet jumping and Tidal Surging around, sometimes dolphin diving into Undertows to keep out of harms way. Once your piles are sufficiently piled, you then use Undertow and Tidal Surge to dash around the room to all of the choke points, gathering all enemies up into a single 'pile' inside Undertow. The scaling damage per enemy inside Undertow then quickly kills the enemies. Rinse and Repeat, with high enough spawn rates you can hopefully skip the "wait for big piles" step and be constantly gathering/DPSing. Does this work in game? Lol, no. Barrage knocks enemies around, Tidal Surge still sucks at holding enemies, Puddle will just leave enemies behind, and the damage scaling is comical. But the theory... it was there. And sure, it was also a higher effort playstyle even in theory, but Limbo mains also exist. For those giving the galaxy brain "Hydroid is better, be happy" take, I implore you to try to understand. Puddle wasn't just a thing that made Hydroid unique, it was one of the most unique abilities in the game. Outside of Undertow Hydroid has rain (a very basic CC), a basic dash (that many other Warframes have a variant of) and a big CC. There are plenty of great frames that just have variants and remixes of other abilities, but that's not all Hydroid had, he also had Puddle. And I'll be honest, Pablo's (paraphrased) "Puddle doesn't make sense in this fast action game" sounded more like a lack of creativity. Why, exactly, did Puddle have to be slow? Like... at all? The Copium I was on when we heard at Tennocon that Hydroid was getting a new ability was that Tidal Surge and Undertow were being merged. Undertow turning from a movement impediment into an augment to movement. Standing still would be our traditional puddle but moving/sprinting would automatically put you into a Tidal Surge state. Pablo's argument "we don't like abilities that remove enemies" is more fair, but Grendel got to keep his stomach just with a new hard limitation. Why could something similar not have been done for Hydroid? I wouldn't have have been opposed to complete removing the enemy consuming aspect of Undertow and kept it as a movement/stealth ability instead. If they wanted to keep the fantasy of consuming enemies it could be shifted to consuming corpses (for some sort of buff). The salt in the wound is that Plunder is incredibly boring in gameplay. The way Pablo has integrated Corrosive into Hydroid's kit is fantastic, Hydroid needed some kind of glue and using an existing status effect to be that glue is going to be great for build-craft. But Plunder's existence is solely to be a point of synergy. It doesn't create gameplay outside of the other abilities you need to cast to make it work. And like... that's not a bad thing in a vacuum, synergy abilities make for some for the most interesting gameplay loops, again the problem is that it is replacing an ability with unique gameplay. Nobody (who is sane) is asking for the Undertow to stay as is. It was busted in design, code, and kit. But that doesn't mean the only path forward was to throw it in the trash. While I'm looking forward to playing a version of Hydroid that is useful, I struggle to see what I could get attached to. Spamming CC abilities, armor stripping, and being tanky is good but I don't play Warframe just to play good things. I play Warframe to play fun and weird things. This is unrelated to the main topic, but I couldn't disagree more. More playstyles are viable in SP than normal path because you don't have comically busted power differentials. I can bring more weapons into SP and feel like I am contributing to the mission than I can to a normal mission. The requirement is that you make an actual build. "Build diversity" isn't "every build works." For making a build to be satisfying there needs to be a power curve, you should feel rewarded for combining things together. If everything works then why try? What's the reward in finding new combinations?

It is a nerf (of requiring one mod slot) to those that think content greater than level 300 is "intended" and refuse to acknowledge that DE has never (and should never) balanced around such content. It is a pretty significant buff for everyone else. Previously my stance was that shields should have value when active, not just when broken, but this solution is definitely a step forward. If there are any more changes (which I honestly doubt) I'd like to see shield regeneration get another look to potentially be more interactive. I also think there is a missed opportunity to turn shield-gate builds into a proper feature (not just a token corrupted mod). I'm not personally a fan of using shield-gate builds, but I absolutely love how they created unique builds and playstyles. Building around this concept and turning it into more of a parry-like system would've been nice.

As someone who personally enjoys Circuit, I sometimes wonder if it was a mistake simply because people would inevitably use an intentionally unbalanced game mode as a reference for balance. Circuit in any and all forms is completely irrelevant to any and all balance discussions (that aren't about Circuit specifically). And on topic, this is why I think SP is the most balanced content in the game. More things are viable because instant nuking is (mostly) gone. More weapons are viable because status priming has a reasonable ttk next to simple 'meta' weapons. High DPS options like Mesa or Saryn are slowed not to the extent of being unsatisfying, but just enough that other gameplay styles have room to breathe next to them. Crowd Control even has a bit more usefulness as most things take a second to die. And while survivability can be a bit of an issue, most forms of defense are viable until you get up above level 200 (anything higher than that is irrelevant as there is no content designed around it).

What is your opinion of the Gas City Secret Laboratory parkour challenges?

I'm dropping this. This discussion isn't going anywhere but I'll finish off with some very quick (as quick as I can at least) final words. 1. Slide attacks in the air... one of the few movement mechanics that has been part of the game since closed beta... is a bug? The "it's been in the game for years therefore not a bug" argument is pretty weak in general, but this is as old as Warframe, I think it gets a bit more validity. 2. Unironically saying "technically correct, the best kind of correct" is an interesting take. You would think in the explanation as to why you are changing a thing that you would, ya know, explain it. There were more words spent not explaining the "series of specific parkour movements" than it would have taken to just say "heavy slide attack in the air." And all of those other "specific movements" are the requirements needed to make Contagion work in the first place. Normally when someone takes the long, non-specific way around a topic it is because they are either trying to hide something or are ignorant. Sure, they were technically correct, but it is also a red flag. And I don't know what that last part is even about. As I've said a few times, I agree with the reasoning "we never intended for Contagion to scale with heavy attacks". And while they did get to that point at the very end of a bunch of nonsense, I appreciate that it was there, I wish that they kept it at that. Saying that using heavy slide attacks to scale contagion is a bug is perfectly reasonable, even if it does make some amount of gameplay sense. This thread would still exist if they kept it at the simple explanation, but I wouldn't be here going my two cents because DE would've provided a fair and understandable rational. Now I'm left wondering if the other weapons that make use of this (Ceramic Dagger and Tenet Grigori) are exploiting a bug, by giving an explanation DE added more uncertainty instead of clarifying. This is the response I expect from someone who is willing to see from another's PoV.

If they simply said "it was never supposed to work with heavy attacks" then I wouldn't have an issue. But that's not the bug that they are claiming exists, they claim that heavy slide attacks in the air are a "movement animation bug." Also calling it a "series of specific parkour movements" instead of a heavy slide attack is... I dunno, it feels like either the person who patched this didn't know those are a thing or the person who wrote the notes wanted to obfuscate what was going on. I know this is a mountain out of molehill, but this kind of disingenuous explanation rubs me the wrong way.