Why the community is ticked about Rev

[MrMysticalPotato]

19 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

I don't know what people expect in general, in the past 3 years all warframes that were released are just meh. MEH. Meh as ***.

Atlas

Wukong

Ivara

Nezha

Inaros

Titania

Nidus

Octavia

Harrow

Gara 

Khora

Revenant.

I literally personally don't like neither their design nor abilities, I don't really care that 3 of them are immortal and one can solo any survival to infinity and beyond (because 99,9999% of people don't even go past 1 or 1,5 hours anyway) even if they're useful for some content. Only Nidus feels like a warframe, and is useless outside long survivals, the rest don't even look like it. Octavia was a final nail in the coffin. From that bunch I only have some hopes for Garuda and only cause Pablo apparently is in the charge of it.

 

 

Nehza, Inaros, Nidus, Gara, Khora and Octavia are all extremely powerfula and fun frames. What the heck are you talking about?

[Zeclem]

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Another thread by someone who obviously hasnt tried Rev yet. Complaint likely based on poor player feedback on YouTube/Streams.

The "nerf" to his 4 wasnt very noticable at all, not for the majority of his kit. It ment slotting another efficiency/dura mod. It was more of a nerf to his #1 since you must slot Narrow Minded after the energy cost increase, which results in the range on enthrall drops down to 10(?) meters. His 2, 3 and 4 are still strong and useful skills. His one needs some QoL tweaks.

The whole "Mesa does it better" complaint isnt fully true. Mesa is nowhere near as durable as Rev, she also doesnt have the movement he does while channeling #4. You can mitigate that slightly with her augment. Rev, with the same damage modding takes down groups of corrupted 130 mobs faster and safer than Rev, which means he is more reliable in harder content aswell.

i have tried rev, and im very much unhappy with those changes as well. 

the nerf to his 4 is very much noticeable. its literally the most energy inefficient ability in the game. and its the only actually good ability in his kit. his thralls get nuked, his mesmer is only semi functioning in higher levels where your stacks get consumed in a second and his 3 costs way too much energy for what it does. 

mesa does it better is completely true. mesa is far tankier than he is thanks to her shatter shield and the movement rev has during his 4 is extremely energy heavy, mesas augment is far better cus you can just roll in a lot more efficient manner. i'll assume you wanted to say "rev deals more damage against groups of corrupted and safer than mesa", which makes me believe you did not play mesa at all. mesa deals higher damage far quickly from a better range with less energy cost. 

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, aswitz87 said:

Saying this is like saying Gara's 2 doesn't do enough damage.

Titania's 2 gives buffs that build as you gain more of them.  While not as useful as other frames' buffs, they are somewhat unique and far from useless.

Not really like saying Gara's 2 doesnt do enough damage, it is used for other purposes too and it (nor any of her other skills) become clunky when you use another.

It simply doesnt work well if you have Titania built around Razorwing. The more you build for Razorwing, the less useful the other skills become since you will most likely focus on maxed out duration, good efficiency, power strength and possibly vitality. This results in short range for her other powers. Rev is kinda in the same boat, but his 2 and 3 are still very useful and not effected negativley by high duration.

27 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

i have tried rev, and im very much unhappy with those changes as well. 

the nerf to his 4 is very much noticeable. its literally the most energy inefficient ability in the game. and its the only actually good ability in his kit. his thralls get nuked, his mesmer is only semi functioning in higher levels where your stacks get consumed in a second and his 3 costs way too much energy for what it does. 

mesa does it better is completely true. mesa is far tankier than he is thanks to her shatter shield and the movement rev has during his 4 is extremely energy heavy, mesas augment is far better cus you can just roll in a lot more efficient manner. i'll assume you wanted to say "rev deals more damage against groups of corrupted and safer than mesa", which makes me believe you did not play mesa at all. mesa deals higher damage far quickly from a better range with less energy cost. 

What you say about Mesmer Skin is very untrue. Sure you might see a larger drop in charges due to higher density, but we are talking about having to recast Mesmer each 5 minutes instead of each 6 or something. The "in a second" is such a massive exaggeration. I've ran Kuva Floods, Sortie defense, Void defense, Void Survival, Sortie Survival and so on and I've never had to recast it often. I havent even gone all out strength, so I'm sitting at 11 charges only. In the Void I might have to recast it each 7 waves or so and in survival each 6 minutes maybe.

Shatter Shield is not a more tanky defense option, Mesa can still get one-shot easily compared to Rev. Her range is also not better, they both have a 50m range. The base movement of Rev while channeling his #4 is already alot faster than Mesa with augment. Sure Mesa can roll, that is a nice bonus over Rev. Mesmer also makes the range a moot points since Rev doesnt have to keep his range. You can simply play in a far more aggressive way and be in the thick of it. Plus at the moment, Rev also shreds Nullifiers.

I love my Mesa, cant deny that, Rev just happens to fit my playstyle better.

[Zeclem]

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

What you say about Mesmer Skin is very untrue. Sure you might see a larger drop in charges due to higher density, but we are talking about having to recast Mesmer each 5 minutes instead of each 6 or something. The "in a second" is such a massive exaggeration. I've ran Kuva Floods, Sortie defense, Void defense, Void Survival, Sortie Survival and so on and I've never had to recast it often. I havent even gone all out strength, so I'm sitting at 11 charges only. In the Void I might have to recast it each 7 waves or so and in survival each 6 minutes maybe.

in crowded levels, one room can easily have more than 11 enemies, which really does not make it an exaggeration when just a dozen people can oneshot through your mesmer skin, especially when enemies mainly use hitscan weapons which you cant really dodge. 

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Shatter Shield is not a more tanky defense option, Mesa can still get one-shot easily compared to Rev. Her range is also not better, they both have a 50m range. The base movement of Rev while channeling his #4 is already alot faster than Mesa with augment. Sure Mesa can roll, that is a nice bonus over Rev. Mesmer also makes the range a moot points since Rev doesnt have to keep his range. You can simply play in a far more aggressive way and be in the thick of it. Plus at the moment, Rev also shreds Nullifiers.

%90 damage reduction on all ranged attacks(which is the main form of attack for 3 of the 4 factions we have) IS a tankier option. especially since you can facetank bombard rockets at 100 levels and such when that is on. and thats only if they actually get through your stun aura. 

you cant be in the thick of it as much as mesa can, not when mesmer skin can be blown to bits by nullfiers in a single shot or just through hordes shredding through the stacks. all mesa has to do is press 2 and 3, a much more energy efficient method compared to rev spamming mesmer skin and his ult. 

range isnt a moot point at all, a mesa will deal with targets far away much better cus she can actually aim where she wants her damage, much unlike revenant. 

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I love my Mesa, cant deny that, Rev just happens to fit my playstyle better.

it can fit your playstyle better, sure. but your personal experience does not define the balance of the game. 

[SenorClipClop]

23 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Why the community is ticked about Rev

The community is ticked about Rev for the same reason that the community gets ticked about every single frame that has been released in the last two years at least. A frame gets previewed (incompletely) on Devstreams, players imagine a very specific way to play or a role for it to fill, the frame doesn't fit what they imagine exactly. Either they get butthurt about the fact that it's not exactly what they wanted, or they try to play it how they want to it be instead of how it's actually designed. Then they rage, dismiss the frame, or hop on forums and concept changes to it.

Granted, frames often need some adjustments, fixes and buffs/nerfs after release, but there are still people on here who deem Khora, Gara and even Harrow horrendously underpowered or unplayable despite clear evidence of their effectiveness.

Edited September 2, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

in crowded levels, one room can easily have more than 11 enemies, which really does not make it an exaggeration when just a dozen people can oneshot through your mesmer skin, especially when enemies mainly use hitscan weapons which you cant really dodge. 

%90 damage reduction on all ranged attacks(which is the main form of attack for 3 of the 4 factions we have) IS a tankier option. especially since you can facetank bombard rockets at 100 levels and such when that is on. and thats only if they actually get through your stun aura. 

you cant be in the thick of it as much as mesa can, not when mesmer skin can be blown to bits by nullfiers in a single shot or just through hordes shredding through the stacks. all mesa has to do is press 2 and 3, a much more energy efficient method compared to rev spamming mesmer skin and his ult. 

range isnt a moot point at all, a mesa will deal with targets far away much better cus she can actually aim where she wants her damage, much unlike revenant. 

it can fit your playstyle better, sure. but your personal experience does not define the balance of the game. 

But the crowded thing never happens, unless you are drunk, stoned or asleep. I've played plenty of higher level missions where this should have happened several times if it was true, but it simply isnt. Also the thing about nullifiers is currently a bug, which applies to all sniper weapons used by mobs and only of a certain level.

And range is a moot point since Rev should not be played as Mesa. You dont need to be at range to be safe, if you do you are doing something wrong with Rev.

I'd hardly call it spamming mesmer skin when you can go full rotations without having to recast it. That would mean you spam 2 and 3 even more on Mesa since they dont last as long. 2 skills each 45 or 50sec or 1 skill each 5-6 waves/minutes, hmm which is most cost efficient...

As I said, you are exaggerating the scenarios. I've played in the thick of it and what you claim simply doesnt happen, no matter if it is just Hydron, the Void, a flood or sortie 1-3. And even if it were to happen once in a bluemoon you still have the utterly crappy thralls to pop in order to reduce aggro for a moment. And when built for dance, using those thralls means you wanna be in the middle of the action due to limited range.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, SenorClipClop said:

The community is ticked about Rev for the same reason that the community gets ticked about every single frame that has been released in the last two years at least. A frame gets previewed (incompletely) on Devstreams, players imagine a very specific way to play or a role for it to fill, the frame doesn't fit what they imagine exactly. Either they get butthurt about the fact that it's not exactly what they wanted, or they try to play it how they want to it be instead of how it's actually designed. Then they rage, dismiss the frame, or hop on forums and concept changes to it.

Granted, frames often need some adjustments, fixes and buffs/nerfs after release, but there are still people on here who deem Khora, Gara and even Harrow horrendously underpowered or unplayable.

Harrows great tho? So is Gara. And you forgot that’s nidus was released within the past few years. And he’s literally the best of the bunch.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Granted, frames often need some adjustments, fixes and buffs/nerfs after release, but there are still people on here who deem Khora, Gara and even Harrow horrendously underpowered or unplayable despite clear evidence of their effectiveness.

Dont forget, people still claim Saryn is bad after the rework too because they need to decide on high strength or high range.

[SenorClipClop]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Harrows great tho? So is Gara. And you forgot that’s nidus was released within the past few years.

That's my point. Harrow's awesome, but because players heard "support" before his release, a lot of people were upset that he's not an edgy version of Trinity and declared him bad for this reason.

Same with Gara. Devs said "high-damage frame" once or twice and many were expecting a god-level one-button nuker. She wasn't that, and so many dismissed her as garbage when her damage required them to do actual gameplay.

I did forget Nidus. He got a pass on criticism mostly, but he's special in that he's designed to camp and scale, granting himself ever-increasing strength and pseudo-immortality.

[Zeclem]

25 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But the crowded thing never happens, unless you are drunk, stoned or asleep. I've played plenty of higher level missions where this should have happened several times if it was true, but it simply isnt. Also the thing about nullifiers is currently a bug, which applies to all sniper weapons used by mobs and only of a certain level.

it happens plenty in squads, where enemies spawn plenty. 

25 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And range is a moot point since Rev should not be played as Mesa. You dont need to be at range to be safe, if you do you are doing something wrong with Rev.

yes, rev shouldnt be played as mesa since mesa is actually useful and rev isnt. 

25 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'd hardly call it spamming mesmer skin when you can go full rotations without having to recast it. That would mean you spam 2 and 3 even more on Mesa since they dont last as long. 2 skills each 45 or 50sec or 1 skill each 5-6 waves/minutes, hmm which is most cost efficient...

again, enemies spawn in a lot bigger crowds than what you claim especially in squads, eating through your mesmer skin quite fast. so yes. mesa's is a lot more energy efficient.

25 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

As I said, you are exaggerating the scenarios. I've played in the thick of it and what you claim simply doesnt happen, no matter if it is just Hydron, the Void, a flood or sortie 1-3. And even if it were to happen once in a bluemoon you still have the utterly crappy thralls to pop in order to reduce aggro for a moment. And when built for dance, using those thralls means you wanna be in the middle of the action due to limited range.

its not exaggerating when enemies actually spawn in batches of 5 to six from each room in a full squad. 

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

it happens plenty in squads, where enemies spawn plenty. 

yes, rev shouldnt be played as mesa since mesa is actually useful and rev isnt. 

again, enemies spawn in a lot bigger crowds than what you claim especially in squads, eating through your mesmer skin quite fast. so yes. mesa's is a lot more energy efficient.

its not exaggerating when enemies actually spawn in batches of 5 to six from each room in a full squad. 

I play in squads only and it never happens. If you cant handle your mesmer stacks you are doing something very wrong. I've even tested him out alot in simulacrum vs full groups of level 130 CHGs and CBombards. The simulation usually ends with the mobs dead and me left with 3-4 stacks of mesmer skin. If I decide to start out with an enthrall I tend to end it with 8 or so stacks left out of my initial 11.

There is only one thing that completely wrecks Rev and that is the bugged sniper rifle mobs at well beyond sortie levels, nothing else.

[Zeclem]

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I play in squads only and it never happens. If you cant handle your mesmer stacks you are doing something very wrong. I've even tested him out alot in simulacrum vs full groups of level 130 CHGs and CBombards. The simulation usually ends with the mobs dead and me left with 3-4 stacks of mesmer skin. If I decide to start out with an enthrall I tend to end it with 8 or so stacks left out of my initial 11.

There is only one thing that completely wrecks Rev and that is the bugged sniper rifle mobs at well beyond sortie levels, nothing else.

so youre telling me that you never get hit more than 11 times in total during missions like survival and defense in squads. im sorry, but im really not gonna believe that. 

and ofc you'd end simulacrum that way. simulacrum has a massively small cap on total enemies summoned. especially if you use strong weaponry.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Zeclem

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

so youre telling me that you never get hit more than 11 times in total during missions like survival and defense in squads. im sorry, but im really not gonna believe that. 

and ofc you'd end simulacrum that way. simulacrum has a massively small cap on total enemies summoned. 

No I'm not saying that. If you had read what I said you'd understand that. I said I'm recasting Mesmer once every 5-6 waves/minutes in survival/defense. Mesa recasts hers every 45-50sec or so (depending on duration). Being able to play safely for 5-6 waves/minutes is pretty damn good in my book. And when the stack hits 0 all you really need to do it find a decent spot so you dont get overwhelmed by bullets when it is time for a recast. And I dont play in some cheesy way trying to avoid action, I'm playing aggressivly at mid to short range. Sure I might get unlucky at times and have to recast after 3 minutes or something, but on avarage it is around the 5-6 mark. 

And if I'd happen to be in a completely rediculous situation where I get focused by 11 mobs with my 11 charges and they somehow manage to strip those 11 charges in an instant they'd still stand there stunned, giving me more than enough time to buff up and then kill them. This would however be a very extreme situation that still hasnt happened to me.

And for simulacrum, yes it isnt a big cap, but it is more than you get from random missions when it comes to focusing just you.

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

But the crowded thing never happens, unless you are drunk, stoned or asleep. I've played plenty of higher level missions where this should have happened several times if it was true, but it simply isnt. 

What levels you being playing where crowded things never happens?

[Zeclem]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No I'm not saying that. If you had read what I said you'd understand that. I said I'm recasting Mesmer once every 5-6 waves/minutes in survival/defense. Mesa recasts hers every 45-50sec or so (depending on duration). Being able to play safely for 5-6 waves/minutes is pretty damn good in my book. And when the stack hits 0 all you really need to do it find a decent spot so you dont get overwhelmed by bullets when it is time for a recast. And I dont play in some cheesy way trying to avoid action, I'm playing aggressivly at mid to short range. Sure I might get unlucky at times and have to recast after 3 minutes or something, but on avarage it is around the 5-6 mark. 

And if I'd happen to be in a completely rediculous situation where I get focused by 11 mobs with my 11 charges and they somehow manage to strip those 11 charges in an instant they'd still stand there stunned, giving me more than enough time to buff up and then kill them. This would however be a very extreme situation that still hasnt happened to me.

And for simulacrum, yes it isnt a big cap, but it is more than you get from random missions when it comes to focusing just you.

going through 5-6 waves without getting hit more than 11 times in actual high levels is simply not something you can convince me that you are capable of doing, sorry. 

[_Vortus_]

@(XB1)GearsMatrix301

 

Title should be Why SOME of the community is ticked about Rev.   The community as a whole isn't.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

21 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

@(XB1)GearsMatrix301

 

Title should be Why SOME of the community is ticked about Rev.   The community as a whole isn't.

 

About 3 days too late. I stopped caring about this post the moment people started $#&%ing on me for it.

[SneakyErvin]

52 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

What levels you being playing where crowded things never happens?

Up to sortie 3. Just did a Mot in the void for 30mins, consistant recast of mesmer each 5-6 minutes.

50 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

going through 5-6 waves without getting hit more than 11 times in actual high levels is simply not something you can convince me that you are capable of doing, sorry. 

That is up to you to believe or not.

The Mot I just did I had 24% damage done, 2% damage taken, 680 kills. 

Our Nidus had 29% damage done, 31% damage taken, 727 kills. 

Our Zephyr had 39% damage done, 41% damage taken and 698 kills.

Our Rhino had 8% damage done, 26% damage taken and 281 kills (seemed to be semi afk).

Edited September 2, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

On 2018-09-01 at 6:27 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Rev first released with less than stellar abilities, but he had potential. So a lot of us were excited to see how DE will take the feedback and improve him.

what do we get? Minor changes to his 1 and a massive nerf to his only good ability. Taking what could’ve been a great frame became worse than when he started. That’s why we’re mad. It’s not just the nerf. Its what that nerf represents. A frame with such potential wasted for god knows why.

Have we not learned by now that it is very rare for de to change something for the better